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User AvatarMore than a year after our previous featured article, The World of Western RPGs by Drunken Irishman (now known as Rabbi Guru), we have a special treat for you!

Our resident expert Unicorn B. Lynx tackles a much-overlooked games genre: Hentai RPGs. An elephant in the room, never shown on our frontpage, but buried deep down into the search engine, the history and highlights of the genre are dissected. Unicorn B. Lynx distils the essential gameplay that made its mark, to weed out the titles that are important and need to be played, and not just for the pretty pictures.

Read Leveling Down: The Story of Hentai RPGs
User AvatarSuperbly and engagingly written, Unicorn!
User AvatarVery nice, and well written! I've always wondered about the circumstances and contents of all those many, many Japanese PC games out there, and it's great to see them being written about in English. Thanks, Oleg. :)
(Edited by Agent 5 Bronze Star Contributing Member (8285), Oct 31, 2009)
Re: New feature article: Leveling Down
Agent 5 Bronze Star Contributing Member (8285), Oct 31, 2009
User AvatarExcellent work, Oleg. It was a pleasure even for someone without a vested interest in the genre. =)
User AvatarGood one! It kept me up way too late reading it, but it was well worth being a little tired today. :)
User AvatarA writing long overdue in English, thanks a bunch !

BTW I noticed that there is no Japanese flag in the Top 50 contributors list. What a pity.
User AvatarThey probably have their own videogame database that we know nothing about 8)
User AvatarBTW I noticed that there is no Japanese flag in the Top 50 contributors list.

There is MAT who is Croatian but sometimes lives in Japan, he used to have Japanese flag before.

But yes, you are right. In my opinion, the biggest problem MobyGames has to face is lack of Asian contributors. We need more Japanese, Chinese, and Koreans. I can still somehow handle Japanese-only and Chinese-only games. Some day I will add them all - at least the classic ones, because they are being released quicker than I will ever be able to submit them. But there is a whole bunch of Korean-only games out there, which I can do nothing about, because I don't read Korean.

Basically, we need more experts. And I don't consider myself a Japanese expert in the least. My Japanese is not good enough to just quickly understand the story of a game from an intro or initial dialogues. Typically I have to take screenshots, sit down and read carefully, romanize all those damn names (reading Japanese names is the most surreal exercise ever), consult dictionaries... A real Japanese person would do it 1000 times quicker and more efficiently.
(Edited by Indra was here Bronze Star Contributing Member (15038), Nov 02, 2009)
Re: Re:New feature article: Leveling Down:The Story
Indra was here Bronze Star Contributing Member (15038), Nov 02, 2009
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YID YANG Wrote:
We need more Japanese, Chinese, and Koreans. I can still somehow handle Japanese-only and Chinese-only games.

Most Asians over here couldn't speak proper English if they had a nuke pointed to their head. Ghastly.

And if they did, would spend it on MMORPG forums. :p
User AvatarMost Asians over here couldn't speak proper English if they had a nuke pointed to their head. Ghastly.

And if they did, would spend it on MMORPG forums. :p


As always, Indra's comments are poignant and scary in their truthfulness :)
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YID YANG Wrote:
A real Japanese person would do it 1000 times quicker and more efficiently.

I very much understand that. I had five years of Russian in school. I can still read it, understand some words and grammatical constructs, but I'd have a damn hard time playing a game in Russian.
User AvatarI very much understand that. I had five years of Russian in school.

I wanted to ask why the hell would your school torture their students like that, but then I saw your profile: thirty something from Leipzig... hello, brother in communist ground school education :)
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YID YANG Wrote:
hello, brother in communist ground school education :)

:o)

Yeah, the communist base campers all have some common ground to start from. But thank goodness there's many more Russians here than Japanese, because my little project to add every free MMO out there is quite enough for this lifetime.
(Edited by Donatello (350), Nov 01, 2009)
Leveling Down: The Story of Hentai RPGs
Donatello (350), Nov 01, 2009
User Avatar"Illusion is my biggest - actually the only - hope for hentai RPGs. If they decide to make another RPG, I will sell my soul to them and become their slave for all eternity"

Umm, what about Yuusha Kara Wa Nigerarenai? I don't know the details, but I think it spoofs Dragon Quest. Don't know if it's a RPG, however.

Nice article, by the way.

“The world can only be saved because the heroines took off their clothes!”
User AvatarUmm, what about Yuusha Kara Wa Nigerarenai?

It's not a RPG, unfortunately. It's a strategy/fighting game with sex. But I have to say it's much better than all this Artificial Girl/Schoolmate/Homemate stuff they have been churning out lately. At least it has a proper gameplay system. It also has great graphics and great... erm... interaction, as usually in Illusion games. I've submitted it, it's pending approval, by the way. With screenshots :)
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Wow you write well Oleg! Awesome.
The Story of Hentai RPGs
YID YANG Bronze Star Contributing Member (162395), Nov 01, 2009
User AvatarThanks to Sciere for proof-reading and posting it so soon! And to all of you for the feedback! :)

Oh, and of course to Rabbi Guru! I learned from his Western RPG article that articles, no matter how professionally written, should be entertaining, not didactic! Hope I reached this goal in this hentai article...
Re: The Story of Hentai RPGs
Daedolon Bronze Star Contributing Member (2983), Nov 02, 2009
User AvatarThanks for the article, it's bound to be an interesting read. Alot of the more obscure Japanese RPGs tend to be very good in contrast to the mainstream Japanese RPGs which are usually very bland in storyline and terrible in gameplay imho.

I'll have to postpone reading it since I'm in school at the moment and I don't want to see any illustrations popping up (which I want to see anyway).
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Daedolon Wrote:
I'll have to postpone reading it since I'm in school at the moment and I don't want to see any illustrations popping up (which I want to see anyway).

There are none in the article itself.
User AvatarThough I don't have much of an interest in these games, the article was a good read. Nice work.
(Edited by lasttoblame (393), Nov 03, 2009)
Re: New feature article: Leveling Down
lasttoblame (393), Nov 03, 2009
User AvatarNice article, Oleg. It was nice to read the article after arguing about it with you in a car stuck in traffic. You have provided us with an abundance of quotes to use in the sparse winter months ahead. An quick favorite: "Not strong enough to kill my people? Then undress, bitch!!" Certainly a quote to put on the family photo X-Mas/Hannukah cards this year.

Unicron (Planet Eater), I think your article does very well to introduce to fellow gamers this particular kink of yours the spectacle of Hentai RPGs and all your favorite games and the like, but dude, you don't get into the issues that you bring up that beg to be answered -- similar to the way that the women in your games all beg to be given the royal treatment by your "King's Vorpal Sceptre +10".

Out of the 1000 issues I'd like to bring up, I'll just start with the one you bring up on the first page (an apologetic FAQ, no less): the powerful incentive of the challenge/reward set-up to reward players who make progress with pornographic images. Porno, in and of itself, is great and awesome and makes the internet the wonderful place that it is. However, when you begin to correlate sex (in the electronic/otaku form of porno/hentai/women and tenacles) as a reward, then you begin to see sex as an object. And to connect the dots to make any Confucian proud, if you begin to see sex as an object, you begin to view women as objects as only defined by their sexual organs.

If you need me to remind you why this is a problem or just to detail an example of this thinking, I'll just simply state that thinking like this means that when a man takes a women on a date and buys her an expensive dinner or any other expensive gift, she is thereby indebted to him and owes him what she has to give up in return as a gift in kind -- the wanton all-night rental of the elastic trap door by the waist-high shrubbery. Further thinking like this would mean that a husband can never be convicted of raping his wife -- after all, how can you violate that which is your own property?

Sex isn't a gift. It (should) be a wonderful shared experience between two people. Your partner isn't gifting you when she lays back and thinks of Mao Zedong and how he's 70% right; of course, maybe you just had lobster bisque and ran back to the apartment, I don't know.

What this means pertaining to video games: perhaps the fall of the Hentai RPG isn't so mysterious in that maybe external forces influences game makers to stay away from combining adult-orientated Hentai with video game elements that have always traditionally been associated with children. Perhaps the rain of the Golden Age of hentai RPG came to a close because some people were uncomfortable with the high octane-hormone cocktail of mixing something that is otherwise a normal videogame with "yah-mah-tay yah-mah-tay".

After you raised that in the first page, that something that begs to be answered. I know, I know, it's Japan; they have a different set of cultural standards over there where you eat liveborn babies for breakfast. Still, Hentai RPG is porn that masquerades as a game and so brings up alot of issues you really should get into more.
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lasttoblame Wrote:
What this means pertaining to video games: perhaps the fall of the Hentai RPG isn't so mysterious in that maybe external forces influences game makers to stay away from combining adult-orientated Hentai with video game elements that have always traditionally been associated with children. Perhaps the rain of the Golden Age of hentai RPG came to a close because some people were uncomfortable with the high octane-hormone cocktail of mixing something that is otherwise a normal videogame with "yah-mah-tay yah-mah-tay".

The rise and fall of video game genres comes with commercial success or failure, nothing else. The Hentai RPG makers shifted to visual novels, because the target audience was tired of killing another thousand monsters before the next reward, and didn't buy those RPG's any more.
User Avatarif you begin to see sex as an object, you begin to view women as objects as only defined by their sexual organs.

Dude, those are games we are talking about. Of course hentai RPGs are sexist and totally male-oriented. But that's why they are cool, because in real world it doesn't work like that. Same way as in real world if something bad happens to you you don't take a shotgun and kill people to release the pain. But in a game you can.

Games satisfy our natural instincts that have been repressed by civilization. Games are a healthy way to do what you wouldn't dare do in real life.

Hand on the heart, any normal heterosexual male would love a hentai game to be reality. You say that we shouldn't see women as objects, and you are right, we shouldn't, but we already do, because that's what our deepest, most powerful instinct tells us. And there is no way around that, no matter how many times we'll repeat to ourselves that it's wrong. Nature knows no wrong or right.

That we can also see some women in a different way is beside the point. I love my girlfriend. I think she is a wonderful human being. Better than me for sure, thousand times, in every way. She is also very intelligent. I have deepest respect for her. But I (all of us) still see most women (young, pretty, sexy ones) as sexual objects. When we walk on the street and see a sexy girl in a mini-skirt, we don't want to engage with her in a conversation about Spinoza and his connection to ancient Upanishads or the situation in the Middle East or whatever. No. We feel a very politically incorrect impulse to do to the girl what the protagonists do in hentai games - without getting to know her as a human being. We see her as an object. Right, wrong - our first impulse is always to see her as an object. Then we might become ashamed of that. We might reconsider. We probably won't do anything - because we are civilized, not because we don't want to.

I guess it all boils down to acting. I believe we shouldn't act in such a way that turns women into our sex objects. But that we want it - oh, that cannot ever be changed, as long as men remain men. There is a difference between wishing something and actually doing it. But there is also no use in lying to ourselves. And hentai RPGs don't lie. That's why I like them.
User AvatarDude, those are games we are talking about. Of course hentai RPGs are sexist and totally male-oriented.

What I want to know is where are the games pandering to (for instance) the yaoi fanciers of Japan's ecchi community as can be seen casually devouring it in manga form on any train? There's lots of perversion in Japan for people of all sexes, genders and proclivities -- why the relative paucity represented in game form? (... because they're targeting the largest slice of the market with the most relatively vanilla turn-ons?)
User AvatarLet's just say that the bulk of those game releases aren't meant towards the typical girly-boy skinny as a twig yaoi fan.

Instead they're meant for the complete opposite of the spectrum.

I'll leave it up to you to think what that entails. And I'll be washing my brain with bleach.
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YID YANG Wrote:
And hentai RPGs don't lie. That's why I like them.



I can argue with you about the equality of women until they grow wings and fly away, and then what would we have to argue about?

Dude, your first page FAQ takes care of (more or less) all of your opinions on the fairer sex. 1)You got em, and 2) you'll keep them. I think folks here will read your engaging article and give you a pass just because they'd rather not go head-to-head with the flame war baron himself. I've said what I had to say against what you had to say -- a better world can now commence.

I'm going to focus this on the issue of the challenge-reward (or in your RPG parlance, suffer-reward): the idea that success of playing a video game brings the real reward of porno and not some tease where they black out the screen whenever any real hot n' heavy action happens. My question to you as the writer of this article is: does that correlation of video game and porn cross the line that makes it commercially unviable? Can't say for Japan, but in the US "hot coffee" burned the lap of Rockstar to the tune of "I'm too lazy to Google". That as we know was just a minigame, but enraged soccer moms in SUVs everywhere even though it was never planned to be released.

I put forward the notion that these aren't video games, as you say, but porn: when the final result is to stimulate you in a sexual way (eeew), any other trappings it has is stripped away. Wouldn't a hentai RPG in this day and age tresspass against most community standards? Let us not forget the recent backlash against modern hentai makers (Amazon Rapelay controversy) as well as the new modern hentai adage that "we won't perform/show rape anymore".

I've only played the one that isn't Cobra Mission, can't put the discussion any forward than that, but wanted to bring up two games that aren't hentai RPGs but use simulated sex and full frontal female nudity in their games: the God of War series and Conan for the xbox 360. The reason why these games aren't porno isn't because they haven't crossed the line. These games use sex to titilate the gamer, but not to the point where playing the game is an act of sexual gratification that hentai games are. Instead, Kratos and Conan are two big jerks who must have their own way, especially if they're wrong, and are starring in a game.

What I'm saying is that the video game doesn't legitimize the porn; actually, the porn devolves the game.
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lasttoblame Wrote:
I put forward the notion that these aren't video games, as you say, but porn.

I hate that comparison. If hentai games are porn, then Doom is a snuff film. I've played a few hentai RPGs and digital novels, read some of the mangas, and they are head and shoulders superior to any pornography. They are not art, but there's an enormous difference between shooting (hopefully) attractive actors engaging in sex, and actually trying to produce drawings with erotic content. I didn't like the games in the end, mainly because of the bad gameplay, but was mostly indifferent to the pornographic scenes, in one way or the other.

I believe in total freedom of expression in creative endeavours, and any subjective and puritan attempt to condemn them in a dubious moral basis always irked me, much more so than any badly-lit porn video on the internet.
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Macs Black Wrote:
lasttoblame Wrote:
I put forward the notion that these aren't video games, as you say, but porn.

I hate that comparison. If hentai games are porn, then Doom is a snuff film.



Please look up the etymology of the word pornography. Video games are power fantasies, no matter if you fondle, rape, pillage or burn. Quick! What is the difference between a film specifically made depicting the torture and murder of a person (or animal) in real life and Doom?

Macs Black Wrote:
I've played a few hentai RPGs and digital novels, read some of the mangas, and they are head and shoulders superior to any pornography. They are not art, but there's an enormous difference between shooting (hopefully) attractive actors engaging in sex, and actually trying to produce drawings with erotic content.



Depends for what you use it. Concerning fondling themselves, some prefer Sasha Grey & Co. over "Milking Talking Sperm Tentacles #542", Milo Manara or Lady Chatterley.

Macs Black Wrote:
[...] They are not art, [...]



Disagree. Have you any kind of idea how h-art it is to make really good porn?
User AvatarWhen I say that hentai RPGs are porn I'm not saying that with a condescending attitude (except if to say that you're a fool for grinding levels for boobies). What I'm saying is that hentai RPGs have the explicit goal of providing sexual stimulation. After slugging through dungeons with nary a nipple, the first hard-core sexually explicit scene turns whatever you're playing into porn.

There's nothing wrong with porn. Well, nothing unless you're unable to shave your palms. But when a video game crosses the line a provides a real reward for overcoming its challenges in the form of hard-core pornography, then that porno becomes the r'aison d'etre--nothing else matters after that. It's not a game for fun or challenge or a good story if you're about that -- no, it's a game for sexual stimulation: porn.

I hold that many modern games have come close to this line, but do not cross it, and so remain video games and are still satisfactory in the way video games are but porno isn't (I think you get my drift). Some examples: God of War sex mini-game, Conan (xbox 360), The Witcher card sex-thing.
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Macs Black Wrote:
lasttoblame Wrote:
I put forward the notion that these aren't video games, as you say, but porn.

I hate that comparison. If hentai games are porn, then Doom is a snuff film. I've played a few hentai RPGs and digital novels,



No because Hentai is real porn you can find it on the internet right now i've never ben on a website that said "The Demons from Doom Snuff!" by that logic sense live action sex films are porn then a bloody action film like Robocop or Hard Boiled is also snuff.
User AvatarI think folks here will read your engaging article and give you a pass just because they'd rather not go head-to-head with the flame war baron himself.

First of all, I don't need any "pass". Have you ever heard of freedom of speech? If somebody doesn't like my article for whatever reason, he/she is free to criticize it. I have no problem with that.

I have a problem with your critique, though, because of one thing I really, really hate: hypocrisy. You, of all people, are putting yourself on a moral high ground to accuse my article (and me personally) of being sexist. You know, the Russians have a good expression: "Maybe some other cows could moo, but yours should better not". I won't go into details of your personal life here (although maybe I should, seeing how you clearly wrote "your first page FAQ takes care of (more or less) all of your opinions on the fairer sex", even though I never expressed anything about my personal opinions about women in the article, in fact the article is about games, and games only - this is a very unfair, very mean personal attack). But come on. You are the guy who enjoys Rapelay! Whom are you trying to fool here?

By the way, I clearly said in my article that I don't accept any games in which the protagonist rapes someone. So at least my morals, no matter how low they are, are still higher than yours. You have no problems enjoying a rape simulation. So what's with the long tirades about the equality of women? At least I respect women enough to refuse to rape them, even in a game.

I'd rather admit that I'm bad, and then try not to be so bad. You, on the other hand, seem to believe that words can cure everything. Are you are being so high and mighty on paper so that you could hide from your real feelings? Are you afraid that if you don't talk passionately enough about how we shouldn't see women as objects people will discover that you do? That ain't the way, dude. Honesty might not solve everything, but at least it's a start.
It's strange though how explicit sexual violence can make gamers blench in ways that explicit, "chaste" torture and mutilation do not. Manically thrusting a sword in and out of a relative innocent and glorying in the rhythmic fountain of blood that results will be mostly acceptable to gamers, whereas a grope simulator, say, will not.

My country (the US) is famous for this strict demarcation of "acceptable" explicit content--on prime time TV here you can show a horribly burned corpse getting sliced up at autopsy, with loving shots of each organ's removal, but showing a lady's nipple is strictly forbidden.

Most other comparable countries have less of a problem with simple nudity, but sexual violence as entertainment, even in mild form, is still seen as more evil in media than the most brutally gory scenes when used for the same cheap thrills.

I'm not saying that such condemnation is bad--I have no stomach for witnessing sexual violence to begin with, and its use as throwaway entertainment is truly hideous to me. I begin to wonder, though, why I don't have a similar reaction to throwaway ultraviolence as cheap entertainment--is it just desensitization? Or is it somehow objectively worse to grope an innocent on a subway car than it is to messily decapitate her?
User AvatarDude, it seems like you read what you want to read. I spent the greater part of the last post talking about the unique "challenge/reward" system that hentai RPGs have that other porn-less video games lack, and ended by asking what you thought the correlation between hentai RPGs and the God of War minigame was. I was past all of that other stuff and wanted to get into talking about videogames.

But that is not to be. I know you worked hard on this article and want praise, not criticism of it. My criticism isn't of your writing but of the gleeful sexism you show throughout it. When I refer to your two page FAQ, what I am refering to is that you shouldn't need to have to make excuses or explanations for what you have to say -- you should just say it. Newspapers editorials don't have any, but then they don't put themselves as personally into their writing as you did with this article.

As this article is written completely from your subjective point of view and not from an objective scientific one, as a reader I experience this article with your biases -- namely, your love of objectification of women. If you'd care to peruse through my last posts, I hope you'll notice that I don't make a judgement call on hentai or porn. I think (without looking it up from a week ago) I may have said that "you shouldn't objectify women". Without getting back into that ol' argument again, with the way you have written this article you have basically made the reader do just that with all the glee you can muster.

I didn't write in just to nitpick about that (please see that I still do want to progress the discussion back to video games -- that no one has picked up on), but there are reasons why I objected: *you're putting ideas and opinions into my mind that I don't agree with *it doesn't help with your argument (that hentai RPGs are cool) *it doesn't make for much discussion except "you know what else is cool?" or "boobies are the best"

If you are going to write and put yourself as the subject, when your writing gets criticized well then you get criticized. This ariticle is not just you advocating hentai RPGs, but from the way you talk here it's also about the way you think about women. I don't speak out to change your point of view, I just do so because I too have an opinion that needs to be said.
User AvatarMy criticism isn't of your writing but of the gleeful sexism you show throughout it.

And Tartuffe strikes again! :)

As this article is written completely from your subjective point of view and not from an objective scientific one

Oh, wait, let me guess. An objective scientific approach would be something you'd do, right? You'd smear pages over pages of how terribly sexist hentai games are. You'd ramble on an on how one should never, ever treat a woman as an object. Then you'd happily return to your "Rapelay" sessions and to your own thoughts about cute waitresses and female students, all of whom - oh, I'm certain! - you deeply respect as human beings.

you advocating hentai RPGs

Funny how only you think that way. I can't imagine how anyone else would get the impression that I'm "advocating" anything in my article. If anything, I'm not advocating your favorite genre - games in which you rape women. The only subjective general opinion about hentai games I expressed was that RPGs are better than visual novels because they have gameplay.

but from the way you talk here it's also about the way you think about women.

Only your mind can come to that conclusion. The article says nothing about the way I think about women. Even if I were the biggest fan of hentai ever - it still says nothing. A person can play violent shooters and be sweet and gentle in life. A person can be a rapist without even having heard of adult video games. The fact I like hentai games has no connection whatsoever to my personal opinions about women or anything else.

I think we've said more than enough to each other in this public forum, and I'm ashamed that my anger prevented me from ignoring your mean posts. Kindly stop discussing me on these forums. If you want to criticize my article, criticize the article, not me as a person.
User AvatarOleg?, you think rape is wrong which is very true but how are you not disturbed by GTA which lets and encourages you to commit mass murder, it even has it's own Rampage mode.
User AvatarIf I recall correctly, Oleg tried to play the GTA games without injuring any innocent pedestrians -- and hence had big issues with the GTA series.
(Edited by Indra was here Bronze Star Contributing Member (15038), Mar 09, 2010)
Re: New feature article: Leveling Down
Indra was here Bronze Star Contributing Member (15038), Mar 09, 2010
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Pseudo_Intellectual Wrote:
If I recall correctly, Oleg tried to play the GTA games without injuring any innocent pedestrians -- and hence had big issues with the GTA series.

Experiencing the gameplay of Oleg and GTA to me is like meeting Oleg in real life who is not interested in girls and hentai. :p

After reading my confusing statement above, something tells me I'm using the wrong analogy. Hmm.
New feature article
Sciere Bronze Star Contributing Member (205880), Nov 08, 2009
User AvatarWe've got a mention on Rock, Paper, Shotgun
Re: New feature article
DJP Mom (11121), Nov 08, 2009
User AvatarWould you call that a backhanded compliment? :)
(Edited by Sciere Bronze Star Contributing Member (205880), Nov 08, 2009)
Re: New feature article
Sciere Bronze Star Contributing Member (205880), Nov 08, 2009
User AvatarNo, I let them know Oleg wrote it (there goes some of the shine), but the initial reply was of sincere interest and they followed up on it through the mention. Brits just use that style of irony all the time.
Re: New feature article
hydra9 Bronze Star Contributing Member (3855), Nov 08, 2009
User AvatarIndeed they do. Well done Oleg on being mentioned alongside Alan Moore, etc.!
User AvatarPhew. Finally, got around to reading it. Great article, great tone. I don't know how one can talk about hentai games with a straight face.

And, really, no pictures? I'm sure you could've at least put some milder ones in it. Otherwise, splendid. Hilarious and genuinly lighthearted. Good job.
User AvatarI don't know how one can talk about hentai games with a straight face.

That's why I chose this light-hearted tone :)
User AvatarFinally getting around to reading the article; enjoying it, but wondering if those italic tags around games' names shouldn't be removed when chapter titles are used as page headers in the browser window's title bar.
Bit late here. Anyway, wow. I'd say the article quality is improving... this was much more focused and tight than the previous ones (no offence previous writers). Funny. Educational.
User AvatarAnyway, wow. I'd say the article quality is improving...

Thanks man, but I really owe you, I learned a lot from your Western article, and I still consider it the original and the best.

I mean, alone the line about Ultima 7 being God's favorite game is unparalleled! :)
User Avatar"PC-98 is DOS. For that reason MobyGames documents all PC-98 games under DOS."

Oh come on, not *again*...

This is the dumbest argument I've been fighting against since I've registered and even donated to MobyGames. The PC-98 is the PC-98. Period. It has its own OS which happens to be based on MS-DOS, but it's an entirely different machine hardware-wise and has its own game library. When are you folks finally going to "get" it?

By the way, are you concatenating all 8-bit computer games under one single platform, just because they were running under CP/M? Of course not. That would be totally dumb. But since you know jack about Japanese computers, it's easier to make people believe that all Japanese games were "DOS" games and get away with it. This is not serious work, guys. Not at all.
User AvatarOh come on, not *again*...

It is true that documenting all PC-98 under DOS has its flaws, but saying "it's a totally different machine" is not quite correct. I'm not saying that our operating system-based style is the best there is, but you can't ignore the fact that PC-98 had Japanese MS-DOS; why are you saying "its own OS based on MS-DOS" if it was MS-DOS? Also, hardware-wise it had so many similarities with IBM PC that they are impossible to ignore. If PC-98, which had Intel processors, should be a separate platform, why not split IBM PC computers with totally different hardware into separate platforms? It's pointless.

Of course, you say that it had its own library; but that was because it was the equivalent of IBM PC in Japan. "Its own library" simply means lots of Japanese-only games. It's like saying that PC Engine is not the same as TurboGrafx because it had its own library. Yes, but this library merely meant games released only in Japan, which would be classified as TurboGrafx games if they were released in the West.

But since you know jack about Japanese computers, it's easier to make people believe that all Japanese games were "DOS" games and get away with it.

I'm sorry, but I'm not trying to make anyone "believe that all Japanese games were DOS". It is a fact that Japanese PC-98 games were MS-DOS. You can complain about our not-so-perfect system of making an operation system priority instead of hardware, but if we document all DOS games under DOS, then PC-98 games should go to DOS, there is no way around it.

There were of course other Japanese-only computer systems. X68000, PC-88, FM Towns. I wouldn't try to make anyone believe they were DOS, because they didn't run under DOS. These systems is not currently in the database, so we are not documenting games released for them now. Feel free to provide tech specs for these systems.
(Edited by Trypticon (4722), Feb 22, 2010)
Re: Leveling Down: The Story of Hentai RPGs
Trypticon (4722), Feb 22, 2010
This passage in the article seems a a little over the top no matter what:

"Now, I know everyone calls it PC-98, but here's the deal: the operation system of the Japanese computer called PC-98 was MS-DOS, the very same that was running on Western PCs at the same time, only in Japanese language. It was for the Japanese what IBM PC was for the Westerners. Japanese didn't start using IBM PCs until the advent of Windows '95. There were simply no games for IBM PC DOS in Japan at that time. So even though it's impossible to run PC-98 games in an IBM PC DOS environment (you'll need an emulator), formally and historically, PC-98 is DOS"

The larger point here, that the PC-98 was the dominating platform over IBM compatible machines for a long time is of course correct. I find it hard to believe there were no games at all for DOS/V running IBM PCs in the early 90s though. I've definitely seen some listed in the Japanese Wikipedia, though I couldn't tell if those entries might be based on ports only released in other Asian countries (quite a number of PC-98 games are after all available for IBM-PCs, just not in Japanese it seems). Usually, even the most obscure, business orientated machines get a handful of games, such as Fujitsu's FMR series or another NEC computer the, NEC PC100 (and all of them run variants of DOS as well). There was also the IBM JX, which is to my knowledge sort of an equivalent to the PCjr (not fully compatible with it, but also running early DOS of course). Thunderforce was released for it for example.
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Trypticon Wrote:
I find it hard to believe there were no games at all for DOS/V running IBM PCs in the early 90s though. I've definitely seen some listed in the Japanese Wikipedia, though I couldn't tell if those entries might be based on ports only released in other Asian countries (quite a number of PC-98 games are after all available for IBM-PCs, just not in Japanese it seems).

For what it's worth, I've seen reference to DOS/V versions of some of the PC-98 games I've added. I have no idea how they would compare, though, and I've not seen a comprehensive listing of them anywhere either.
User AvatarBesides, you are forgetting two things here.

1) I'm not an admin, I don't decide anything here. I see the point in your argumentation, but I also saw the point of the admins when they decided not to add PC-98 as a separate platform. That's why I'm trying to explain their point of view to you. Personally, I really don't care either way, as long as the decision doesn't lead to confusion.

2) I think it's much more important to get the games documented than argue over hardware difference and such. It would have been therefore much more productive from your side to use your knowledge of Japanese games to add new entries to MG instead.
It takes talent to write so boringly on such an exciting topic. I managed to get to the second chapter, but when he openly asked "Don't you have better things to do?" I realised I have. Like writing this comment ^_^ Aren't Oleg a relative of Anatoly Wasserman, by any chance? Or maybe the topic itself isn't as exciting as the combination "naked girls + RPGs" makes you think?
User AvatarIt takes talent to write so boringly on such an exciting topic. I managed to get to the second chapter, but when he openly asked "Don't you have better things to do?" I realised I have.

Of course, it's much more interesting to say bad things about other people's work than to do something yourself. You haven't written a single review for this site. You haven't even participated in the forums much. But you are not too lazy to post an insulting comment directed at someone who hasn't done anything bad to you.

You are Russian, eh? Не стыдно быть такой свиньей?
User AvatarDid you just invite him to have pork at your house tonight?
User AvatarDid you just invite him to have pork at your house tonight?

Close, but no! I asked him if he's ashamed of being such a pig :)
I liked the FAQ off =]
YID YANG Wrote:
You are Russian, eh? Не стыдно быть такой свиньей?

Translation plz, i do not like google translate or others of the kind, since they aren't all that effective.
(Edited by DJP Mom (11121), Nov 15, 2009)
Re: Leveling Down: The Story of Hentai RPGs
DJP Mom (11121), Nov 15, 2009
User AvatarGoogle translated just fine (for a change), try it. And so did Unicorn Lynx if you read the post just above yours!
User AvatarPretty sure he's a troll, maybe the same guy as tae wong.
User AvatarPretty sure he's a troll, maybe the same guy as tae wong.

But Tae Wong was at least cool with his text adventure-like posts! :)
User AvatarI only just started reading this (embarrassed face) - Brilliant, brilliant writing! I commend you, sir. Also, I'm sure 'FAQ off!' has been used many times before, but it's a great pun, especially as part of the first chapter title :)
User AvatarWow this is so good! well done good post!!!
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Deyl bater Wrote:
Wow this is so good! well done good post!!!

Thanks! I put a lot of thought and dedication into it.
Uhm... As far as i know, PC-980x's are not IBM-PC compatible although they may share some common hardware components. I mean, can you boot Japanese MS-DOS on an IBM-PC compatible computer and run games on it and/or vice versa?
User AvatarLet's just say that a number of us agree that it should be separate (including myself), but the simple answer is that because the hardware is BASED on the IBM PC standard and because the operating system is BASED on MS-DOS, that's apparently good enough to consider it the same thing. Or at least, that's the argument for keeping it under DOS. Same reason the FM-Towns is listed under DOS as well.

Personally, I think it's like merging the Master System and the Game Gear...but this isn't really the thread to discuss this anyway.
User AvatarPC-98 hardware is not based on the IBM PC standard. In that case, it would be compatible.
User AvatarSame reason the FM-Towns is listed under DOS as well.

Whoa, wait, FM-Towns is not listed under DOS. It's an unsupported platform (hopefully, won't be such forever).

The thing is that most FM-Towns games run under Towns OS, which has nothing to do with DOS.

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