I assume this is not the first time this has happened, but I thought I'd just bring this to your attention, this time it's Sam Jeffreys' screenshots for System Shock.

This is a scan of a finnish Pelaaja -lehti, issue #79. Hopefully the story unintelligible enough to be acceptable to be posted, though with this, they deserve it anyway.



And the screenshots on the site in the same order: Shot 1, Shot 2, Shot 3, Shot 4, and Shot 5.

I don't know the legality of this (issue, if it's any), but that's not why I brought this to attention anyway.

I find it funny that a magazine with some status would just bluntly copy screenshots to a story about a classic game as if they've never bothered to play it. Makes them look quite unprofessional in my eyes, especially considering this particular game is my all time favourite title.

Note how our screenshots don't have a watermark. :|

I'm guessing it's an automated system, and all the pre-watermark shots would have to be pulled and reprocessed?

it wouldn't have hurt the content one bit to source the images, even with the watermark removed. Its sad to see this happen, but to be completely honest, what can be done without footing the bill for a lawyer? It makes me sick, really.

Hey Don, long time no see, eh?

Is it so hard for game mags to capture their own screenshots ? I mean I understand if the game is rare, and there's no good screens anywhere, but I'm pretty sure System Shock isn't that hard to find.

Making a come-back for a few days, it has been way too long! I've hundreds of GC covers to scan so I'm around for a bit, maybe I'll stay :)

Well, it is the internet.... :p
I do hope that language isn't Russian. We already have a long history of copyright issues with the Russians.

Language seems to be Finnish. And what's the story about copyright issues with Russians?

Some Russian game website stealing practically everything it had from MobyGames. Don't know how the admins did it, but they finally dropped the MG content (I think). Happened a couple of times I believe.

It certainly does seem unprofessional, especially as they don't credit MobyGames at all.

Incidentally, I found it very cool when Warren Spector used some of these shots as lecture slides a couple of years ago. Though he did mention MobyGames and recommended everyone should check us out!

(P.S. I just remembered something else! Gamespot used a shot I had taken of X-COM: UFO Defense. Gamespot! It was for a 'best PC games' feature. They didn't grab it from MobyGames, however. Instead, they stole it from some X-COM fan site. I guess the article's author had a deadline to meet.)

My cat's breath smells like cat food.

Alright, I have to ask: What Gamespot incident is this?

I still can't even think about that without getting aggravated!

Ditto. Just getting them whenever I do a search is IRRITATING.

I'm sure that none of the more obscure games we've contributed since then will get stolen and added there.

It's not the first magazine to do so. A year ago or so I noticed that my fav magazine Retro Gamer had a few box shots of old obscure games that were watermarked with the MB logo. A was disappointed that they did not credit MB anywhere, since they usually do so.

Out of curiosity, I checked all the Pelaaja magazines I had (issues 63-80), to see whether there's more screenshots taken from MobyGames. The answer is yes, and this seems to only happen in the "KLASSIKOT MUISTISSA" (classics in memory) section of the magazine, though sometimes not all the screenshots are taken from MobyGames, or at all.

From the 18 issues I have, 12 uses screenshots from MobyGames. That's a lot!

---

ISSUES THAT USES SCREENSHOTS FROM MOBYGAMES:

Pelaaja, issue #63 (5 out of 5 taken from MobyGames)



http://www.mobygames.com/game/n64/super-mario-64/screenshots/gameShotId,246944/
http://www.mobygames.com/game/n64/super-mario-64/screenshots/gameShotId,246941/
http://www.mobygames.com/game/n64/super-mario-64/screenshots/gameShotId,246929/
http://www.mobygames.com/game/n64/super-mario-64/screenshots/gameShotId,246935/
http://www.mobygames.com/game/n64/super-mario-64/screenshots/gameShotId,246955/







Pelaaja, issue #65 (2 out of 5 taken from MobyGames)



http://www.mobygames.com/game/sega-saturn/nights-into-dreams/screenshots/gameShotId,126766/
http://www.mobygames.com/game/sega-saturn/nights-into-dreams/screenshots/gameShotId,126770/







Pelaaja, issue #67 (2 out of 2 taken from MobyGames)



http://www.mobygames.com/game/dreamcast/soulcalibur/screenshots/gameShotId,15342/
http://www.mobygames.com/game/dreamcast/soulcalibur/screenshots/gameShotId,15339/







Pelaaja, issue #69 (5 out of 5 taken from MobyGames)



http://www.mobygames.com/game/nes/metal-gear/screenshots/gameShotId,42295/
http://www.mobygames.com/game/nes/metal-gear/screenshots/gameShotId,42294/
http://www.mobygames.com/game/nes/metal-gear/screenshots/gameShotId,42293/
http://www.mobygames.com/game/nes/metal-gear/screenshots/gameShotId,42299/
http://www.mobygames.com/game/nes/metal-gear/screenshots/gameShotId,184854/







Pelaaja, issue #70 (4 out of 4 taken from MobyGames)



http://www.mobygames.com/game/sega-saturn/wipeout/screenshots/gameShotId,204442/
http://www.mobygames.com/game/sega-saturn/wipeout/screenshots/gameShotId,204449/
http://www.mobygames.com/game/sega-saturn/wipeout/screenshots/gameShotId,204453/
http://www.mobygames.com/game/sega-saturn/wipeout/screenshots/gameShotId,204443/







Pelaaja, issue #71 (4 out of 6 taken from MobyGames)



http://www.mobygames.com/game/windows/fallout/screenshots/gameShotId,12688/
http://www.mobygames.com/game/windows/fallout/screenshots/gameShotId,12644/
http://www.mobygames.com/game/windows/fallout/screenshots/gameShotId,12653/
http://www.mobygames.com/game/windows/fallout/screenshots/gameShotId,12643/







Pelaaja, issue #72 (3 out of 5 taken from MobyGames)



http://www.mobygames.com/game/windows/far-cry/screenshots/gameShotId,264642/
http://www.mobygames.com/game/windows/far-cry/screenshots/gameShotId,264645/
http://www.mobygames.com/game/windows/far-cry/screenshots/gameShotId,264644/







Pelaaja, issue #75 (1 out of 4 taken from MobyGames)



http://www.mobygames.com/game/n64/1080-snowboarding/screenshots/gameShotId,37658/







Pelaaja, issue #76 (6 out of 6 taken from MobyGames)



http://www.mobygames.com/game/dos/prince-of-persia/screenshots/gameShotId,15915/
http://www.mobygames.com/game/dos/prince-of-persia/screenshots/gameShotId,815/
http://www.mobygames.com/game/dos/prince-of-persia/screenshots/gameShotId,15913/
http://www.mobygames.com/game/dos/prince-of-persia/screenshots/gameShotId,2899/
http://www.mobygames.com/game/dos/prince-of-persia/screenshots/gameShotId,15917/
http://www.mobygames.com/game/dos/prince-of-persia/screenshots/gameShotId,15914/







Pelaaja, issue #78 (6 out of 6 taken from MobyGames)



http://www.mobygames.com/game/playstation/silent-hill/screenshots/gameShotId,30602/
http://www.mobygames.com/game/playstation/silent-hill/screenshots/gameShotId,30593/
http://www.mobygames.com/game/playstation/silent-hill/screenshots/gameShotId,30591/
http://www.mobygames.com/game/playstation/silent-hill/screenshots/gameShotId,30596/
http://www.mobygames.com/game/playstation/silent-hill/screenshots/gameShotId,30589/
http://www.mobygames.com/game/playstation/silent-hill/screenshots/gameShotId,30595/







Pelaaja, issue #79 (5 out of 5 taken from MobyGames)

System Shock (see the first post)







Pelaaja, issue #80 (5 out of 5 taken from MobyGames)



http://www.mobygames.com/game/nes/castlevania/screenshots/gameShotId,105425/
http://www.mobygames.com/game/nes/castlevania/screenshots/gameShotId,310300/
http://www.mobygames.com/game/nes/castlevania/screenshots/gameShotId,310309/
http://www.mobygames.com/game/nes/castlevania/screenshots/gameShotId,310315/
http://www.mobygames.com/game/nes/castlevania/screenshots/gameShotId,310316/

Oh, it's not such a big deal.

It just reiterates the importance of us having good, quality screenshots up here. Because you never know when they'll be ripped off by a magazine and you want them to reflect well on the game! 8)

No, it means we need better watermarks.

Hope not. Like someone said, it's not a big deal (I have no idea if watermarking screenshots/boxshots, as many sites do, is legal at all, or if it has any legal effect). Personally I don't like it, and I myself think the more people "borrow," the better the chance is that the info is preserved for the future. And of course MG's database also includes many "borrowed" things. Moreover, what's a database for if other people can't use it? Would be nice though if they credited MG. (Hope I am not expelled now.)

Like what?

Come on ...

We approvers try our best to screen out stolen content from here. I had to deal with a trivia guy that kept sending in stuff copied and pasted from Wikipedia for months... If you know of any "borrowed" stuff, let us know so it can be removed. We're not perfect, you know.

Exactly.

I wasn't being cynical, as I may have sounded. It is just that if anything slips in and is "borrowed" from somewhere, it isn't because we want that, it's because someone made a mistake. So please, if there's anything you're sure was "borrowed" from somewhere, let us know.

If they HAD credited MobyGames then it wouldn't be such an issue, but... they're a magazine. They should know plagiarism isn't acceptable. I'm sure they'd sue anyone if someone took an article from any of their issues and reprinted it without permission.

I think what game nostalgia means is that we "borrow" things like info, screenshots and covers from 46,079 games and counting.

Or the endless electronic covers that end here, which are by definition just copied from anywhere. (But IMHO these shouldn't get the MG watermark.)

You photograph Cindy Crawford. Who owns the shot. You or Cindy?
You give away the photograph to some unknown publisher called MobyGames. Who owns the shot. You or MobyGames?

Egad.

Actually...

You photograph Cindy, and you put it on your website.
I take it from your website and give it MobyGames.

Who owns it?

The bloke who owns the website. Which technically is what I've been doing. Muahahaha! [Edit. Varies under the U.S. Fair Use Act]

But I have diplomatic immunity. So there. :p

Whoever owns it, we should credit it here. When I submit developer shots taken from somewhere else, I put in the description: "John Doe, circa 1983 (picture taken from Wikipedia)".

Often the license used on Wikipedia dictates that they need to be named and credited personally 8)

Exactly. That's my (and I guess our) policy when dealing with stuff from other places. We use it when the license permits so.

Yes, but we reject screenshots with someone elses watermark. OPP. Other Peoples' Plagarism. :p

I want to report another posible violation: I recently picked up Guinness World Records for Gamers 2008 at the library, and discovered that several box shots where taken from Mobygames. Some had been modified to remove the big watermark, but the little was still visible. And some images where suspiciosly cropped at the bottom... The book actually contains a page with image references, but does not mention Moby.

If they have used the images without permission then I think this would be a good opportunity to sue them and get some money for the site :-)

Oh, and don't bother reading the book. I did not find it very good, especially since it was full of factual errors.

It's one thing to have a regional magazine, but to have it in a massive publication like Guinness World Records to break copyright laws, they should know better.

Yes, exactly what I was thinking. Even if it was only a few images, obtaining permission should be crucial for a company that is themselves relying on copyright for the material they publish.

Not sure whether Pelaaja -lehti may in fact have more readers than the gamers' edition of the Guiness Book.

-Mike

What particular pages they were in? I have the book myself and I'd like to see myself.

And no, it's not very good of a "book". Someone should enforce these cases imho. At least have it mentioned in the thieves' upcoming issues.

Darn, I just returned the book to the library. I remember though, that the first image I saw was in the later parts of the book, and then I looked through the entire book and noticed a few other. Easiest to spot is the white mark at the bottom right of the images.

I just ordered the 2008 edition through my library - I could scan and post the 'stolen' pictures here, would that make it doubly or triply criminal? :) Probably won't get it until Monday.

Just had a look through the 2008 Gamers edition. Page 124 moby watermark on the NES Golf cover. page 126, Magic Johnson's Basketball, page 132 Golf Atari 2600, page 139 NHLPA Hockey 93 Mega Drive. (Guess they were missing some sports art.)

page 199 Utopia - Intellivision

Just having a look for a few more.

edit, Just occurred to me that I have the UK version. Other versions may have a different page layout and page number set-up.

It would be interesting to have a closer look at some of the covers that seem to be cropped at the bottom. By looking at unique spots or scratches one should be able to tell if they come from here..

Wow, yeah, look at that! (Here's one of the more obvious ones)

Tsk tsk!

So who's going to report this to a gaming news site?

Makes you wonder if the trivia is sourced from MobyGames as well.

Funny. Just had description revision commenting that it was copied from wikipedia. Even funnier since I actually wrote the description. :p

Apparently Guinness WR is very protective of their stuff, as seen on this page:

http://failblog.org/2009/07/13/omg-u-fail-so-hard/

Which makes it an even bigger "fail" that their would steal our content!