The last 2 months were pretty stale here. This was the worst time of new entry approval I observed since 2009.

Yet even if I had personally contributed 300 titles by next month - and a cloned Sciere approved them - there's little point in writing for a volunteer project if few people read it.

I spam other forums, add links to imdb, expand our Wikipedia entry... only to witness our Alexa rank drop. There are days where you can hear crickets chirping on our forum.

In the meantime other websites are pumping money in advertising themselves... or are using other tricks:

Indra was here wrote: Easy enough to see which sites are popular by their Facebook page activity. It's the 21st century -- social media, dude.

Look at a certain PC abandonware website... it has 11000 likes on Facebook. We have... almost 1500.

I didn't jump on the Facebook bandwagon because it isn't for me. It is, however, a useful propaganda tool. People en masse accepted it, why can't we exploit that? Everybody does it anyway.

Who takes care of our Facebook page? As I said, I'm ignorant to all things FB.

Surely our members with FB accounts could spam a bit to bring in more people? Surely we need to convince more people how valuable this website is. With increased readership so does increase our notability. A side effect could be new members joining in, potentially some of them valuable.

If spamming actually worked, we'd all be working for the Russian mafia. Oh, wait. :p

Though personally, most MG users need to get out of the bubble they built from themselves. It's the internet. We actually have other sites to visit and our attention span usually only lasts a few seconds. In those few seconds, I'd probably find content that is more entertaining (hell, why do you think I incorporate humor in game group descriptions?). Yeah, I think about these things.

But I love my bubble! D: It's cozy and comfy and doesn't have any of that scary social media intruding on it!

Thing is that this bubble is why probably many of us are here. Break it and you may have new people coming in, but even what few regulars are left going out.

Forum can be as small as you want, if it's your buddies who you need. I admit I did experience that problem quite a few times in the last 10 years when people migrated to/from a forum: knowledgeable old regulars were gone and irritating ignorant newbies were in. So far in the last 3 years we only had people migrating out...

Yet please note that we're more than just a forum. The database won't grow by itself. Why Wikipedia is still alive and kicking, after all those years? It's no longer "a new thing", after all (just like MG). The constant influx of people is the answer.

Forum moderators could keep troublemaking newbies in line.

Wasn't referring just to forum. Meh, doesn't matter. And anyway, a lot of the bottlenecks come from the approvers, which need to be very reliable and knowledgeable, so new contributors for a long time won't do more than put even more pressure on them. So I guess the first order of business is getting more regulars as approvers (nope, not offering, looks like way too much of a pain... which I guess is the problem) and definitely streamlining the approval process (but... yeah...), then worry about submissions, and only after that about more people in general.

...but each approver started as contributor.
Looks like our pool of potential approvers is fairly exhausted. Let's be aware that you can't demand too much from volunteers. Every one of them becomes burned out sooner or later, thus we need new people.

It's rather telling that I'm the #3 contributor so far this year, and I "retired" back in December to only contribute games to keep my collection lists up-to-date. Mostly.

There's a lot of things we could be doing, frankly. We could have a twitter feed that highlights interesting new content like rare scans or cool screenshots. We could have a youtube channel that shows off cool and obscure games.

(Incidentally, on that one, I've been wanting to get a video series off the ground for a while to show off the weird Japanese games I collect -- something like HG101 in video form, but with fewer factual errors. If anyone with video-editing expertise wants to help out, shoot me a message!)

I'll be completely honest that the whole "social media" phenomenon is somewhat lost on me. But then I still have a flip phone with no apps, use game consoles with physical media, and haven't touched my Facebook account in close to two years...

Only good reason to login into Facebook is just to hear me whine on a daily basis really. Yeah, that's about it. :p

If I open Facebook it does look suspiciously like Indra's cult of personality :D

Speaking of that, I was checking screenshots for some game or other recently, and man, our screenshot galleries feel like something made in 1998 D: I mean, today you can embed Picasa on a website and you get a beautiful, easy to navigate image galleries with almost zero coding (you can even use the keyboard!). And if you feel really fancy, you can do truly amazing things with JQuery.

And let's not even mention the nightmare that is trying to browse the site (and very especially these forums) on a smartphone. Oh the pain.

Which, I guess, is to say we really, REALLY need that site update we heard so much about.

I'm guessing it'll pop up after I live through seven Endonesian presidents. Yeah, seven is a nice number. Two more presidents to go.

Site code update is a sci-fi, this thread was about things we could do ourselves. Remember that if anyone (read: GameFly) is going to invest in this website, it needs to be popular and growing in ranks - this is what makes the value of any online property.


That was supposed to be in my second post.

Today everyone and their grandma upload let's plays on youtube. By everyone I mean it: people with no editing skills, poor sense of humor and taste, horrible voice. Most do it for free, so it's not impossible for our members.

Again, as with Facebook, it has to be an official channel, who would be its keeper? I didn't get an answer who keeps our FB page?

Links to let's play videos on youtube could be a prominent section on each game's rap sheet. That would allow MobyGames to become a convenient portal to finding let's plays rather than sifting through youtube's search.

I don't want to sound like Wikipedia bureaucrat ("is it worthy to add?"), but most of those youtube vids have quality issues. It will also make other links drown - Indra recently brought up hierarchy issue with groups, I say that links also need it, ideally one link should be flagged "official website". Again, those are things for website redesign, so...
In short: I'd rather see MobyGames doing own vids.

---

Now, another type of websites we should penetrate are those Flash game portals. I used to frequent Kongregate, I went as far as PM'ing developers to join Moby and document their games. Here's one who listened. It would be so much easier if they did the job of submitting browser games themselves... and for them it's free self-promotion, why pass that opportunity?

We have a twitter feed which gets updated every time a new news item is posted, but it is pretty much useless as it doesn't have a link for the news piece, it only shows the headline. I once asked to have the link included there, but Rob said Brian had to code it, and you know how the story goes from here...

All those things we need to improve influx of users are in the hands of GameFly staff, which is currently engaged in making the oh-so-waited overhaul. The problem is that it seems we've got only one guy behind it, and he's slowly working on all those bugs we're reporting.

So it seems that what MobyGames needs is money.

Code it? god, that is such a lazy excuse. Just copy and paste a link. Not rocket science, time consuming or anything else that would keep them from doing it.

If they're that lazy.... Well, I'm not even going to finish that.

That's because the twetter feed is automated. But yeah...

From looking at the other responses here, it occurs to me: It's not enough to simply open a museum, you need to curate it as well. You can have the greatest collection in the world, but if it's a disorganized mess then you won't get many visitors. We have a ton of great information and data here, but it's about as boring to navigate as reading a dictionary.

Featured games and community articles are all well and good, but they rotate bi-weekly at best. A Youtube channel with original video content would probably be a boon to our visibility if it was done properly, but we really need more of a community aspect to the site in general. Sure, all content is user-contributed, but that's all rather dry and, frankly, invisible to most visitors.

Just out of curiosity, how many new approvers have there been since I last took off?

Today's internet generation values quantity over quality, and MobyGames with its standards is something from the past. Not much can be done with it, really. I think that those who stayed should just continue doing what they do.

That's because today's internet generation is the mainstream, something which MobyGames will never be and should not try to aspire. We will always be a niche, because people interested in history will always be a niche. Particularly if it's an obscure part of history as what we research and document here.

That doesn't make MobyGames any less valuable.

My 2c, Just rename the place to WikiGames, guaranteed to boost the google ranking. Moby either means mobile, or some bold guy that Eminem made fun of 15 years ago.

So before I joined mobygames and saw a link to mobygames, immediate dismissal

Thing is that it's not exactly a wiki.

Fully agree with vedder.

Oh dear.

MG doesn't even do an obscure part of history, but an obscure part of videogame history. In terms of quality, most of it is badly presented basic research. The qualitatively best single game entry hardly qualifies as what I would call that particular game's "history". A site recode alone won't save this site; it needs a major conceptual overhaul.

Please elaborate.

See, Rola here thinks that the reason why WP is still alive and kicking is the influx of new people. Wrong answer. The reason is its much superior architecture and relevance.

The way I see it, you can take MG into two possible futures: 1. keep it the souped up spreadsheet on a server, or 2. turn it into a knowledge base on everything videogames, built on top of a highly-scaleable, wiki-like architecture that makes heavy use of integrated data visualization as well as semantic features and is also easy to upgrade and maintain, etc. This option, executed well, will guarantee fresh blood. Or your money back.

If you go for option 1, though, I predict that MGs content will be absorbed by platforms which are more transparent and better suited to adapt to the challenges of chronicling the history of a fledgling art form that becomes more important every day. Hell, conceptually, WP beats MG here already without batting an eye simply by listing sources and mediation talks etc., while you guys whine about why they don't include links to MG... well what the fuck should they do that for?

Another big problem for (potential) contributors are the perks of a commercially-motivated leadership. But that's been done to death here already.

Dude, in terms of superior database architecture, see vndb.org. Wikipedia is an Encyclopedia, it has absolutely no advantage in this regard.

Way to miss the bloody point.

The transformation needs to be in MGs site concept. In simple words: broaden the scope in both quantity and quality, i.e. make it reputable videogame encyclopedia. Obviously something which WP's backend, MediaWiki, as a CMF on top of a DB architecture with already workable semantic/ontological extensions, is already better suited for.

A reputable encyclopedia? You mean that which Wikipedia hasn't managed to become during a decade since it was started?

Nobody needs another Wikipedia, which is useles for anything besides getting tips on where to start your research. A database has already a broader scope than an encyclopedia, both in quality and in quantity. A database can be modified to serve the users' needs, it can be basic or it can be extensive. There is no limit to the features one can include in a database, as long as two main rules are respected: categorization and standardized structure. A database should be easily searchable and features should be easily quantified.

As we all know, mobygames is terrible at all I've said above, but wikipedia - even more. I don't see the purpose of adopting a wikipedia-like backend. It would mean a downgrade in most directions. If the reason is to maintain a constant flow of users and submissions, then you're on the wrong track. Why would I or anyone else need Wikipedia 2 or Wikia 2. I would just go back to Wikipedia 1 and Wikia 1.

Now I'm not saying our submission process is good, but let's be more creative. There is always a third way.

TotalAnarchy wrote: A reputable encyclopedia? You mean that which Wikipedia hasn't managed to become during a decade since it was started?

Exactly. A reputable knowledge base for videogames. Something with a more, say, scholarly approach and expanded scope, ideally independent of corporate interests.

TotalAnarchy wrote: Nobody needs another Wikipedia, which is useles for anything besides getting tips on where to start your research.

You still don't get it. I'm not talking about another WP but a hybrid, that takes the best features of both platforms as it is better suited for the broadened scope of such a possible revamp. See below.

TotalAnarchy wrote: A database can be modified to serve the users' needs, it can be basic or it can be extensive. There is no limit to the features one can include in a database, as long as two main rules are respected: categorization and standardized structure.

What is MediaWiki again? Exactly, it's just a CMF specialized in knowledge management... using a DBA. Which is, and that's the bummer, standardized and highly customizable. And MW is just an example; use something else instead if you're so inclined. Just don't handcode shit only two persons can fix... when you can reach them, that is. Again, the way I see it, the very nature of the site is the problem.

TotalAnarchy wrote: As we all know, mobygames is terrible at all I've said above, but wikipedia - even more.

Then why do we even have this dicussion? Exactly! The spreadsheet-hippies are beaten slowly but surely at their own game.

TotalAnarchy wrote: I don't see the purpose of adopting a wikipedia-like backend. [...] Why would I or anyone else need Wikipedia 2 or Wikia 2. I would just go back to Wikipedia 1 and Wikia 1.

WP's content politics make it obviously unsuited. Therefore, you'll need to create a dedicated solution to the otherwise structurally similar problem that is knowledge management. Knowledge centralization, ease of use, brand recognition and dedicated community features play also into it. Et cetera.

TotalAnarchy wrote: There is always a third way.

Like closing shop? :P

With regards to the extent of GameFly's redesign, I don't know of course, as nothing of relevance is communicated in the open forums here.

Rola wrote: Isn't giantbomb a wiki?

Yes, another badly designed second fiddle.

The problem is that you're preaching to the choir if you're talking about needing to change the site backend. Probably everyone has different ideas as to how it should be changed, but pretty much everyone here agrees it's needed and yet there's nothing anyone but said two people can do about it :/

I've always envisioned MG to provide everything about game.
When I mean everything, I mean everything that meets the imagination of any gamer for whatever reason or purpose. Yes, everything.

When you want to be blown off while using the DB you gotta ask Iggy. As he once nearly volunteered to make this happen I'm sure you can convince him to emigrate, especially given Sweden's dumb laws on sex work. :)

I forgot why Iggy left. If memory serves correct, he was the first that 'officially' left in protest. I've always figured it had to do with his medication. :p

I wasn't sure if this should be brought up in a separate thread or this one...

Someone (gee, I wonder who?) posted this poll few days ago, asking what's the number one place where people go to research games (and why).

Of course this poll should be re-posted on a major popular website, to get a number of votes that does matter. Anyone?

Since it seems I'm one of the few people here who actually had training and worked in academic research, I'd choose Wikipedia over MobyGames, e.g. if you want to write an peer review-based article about a game.

The 'authoritative' context of MobyGames is simply a marketing jargon, since it's not based on any academic model. Professionally wise, it has no place calling itself an authoritative database because it uses a self proclaimed model.

Also sources for the most part are not provided to the public, so there isn't any way to guarantee to a third party that the information provided here is accurate: taking our word for it, doesn't count. The only noteworthy exception is the screenshots as the source is obvious. Credits, ironically one of strongest features MG has, does not provide a source for public viewing.

For casual researching, sure due to its size.

• It's not an encyclopedia due to information provided is limited to gameplay in the game description (other related info has to go to the trivia section).
• It's not a database since a database should be versatile enough for continuous updates as one would expect in the information age. Most of us have practically given up in this regard.
• It's not a wiki for obvious reasons.

At best, MobyGames is the largest gaming catalog on the net.

Will add more whining when I remember what I was supposed to be whining about

Finally, the Avatar has descended upon MobyGames! In all seriousness though, I agree with you completely.

Isn't giantbomb a wiki?

That is utter nonsense.

I have control the FB page. If someone wants to help on it I can now assign roles for it.

Any good ideas are welcome.

Yes, a redesign is underway but with limited resources.

A featured game per day would be a start. 3-5-line description and link to its Moby page (only picking from games with pretty complete info).

Sounds good... I can use random game for that

You forgot the little description, as in why's it featured :)

How 'bout, picking from what's on file: "In this second game in the Gold Box series of RPGs, sequel to Pool of Radiance, the heroes must break free of the curse placed on them after being ambushed and captured outside of the town of Tilverton. The five azure markings, called "bonds", can take control of them at the most inopportune times." ?

5 lines as a comment, should be short enough.

MobyGames is so stale and the website is seen less and less because its more or less just you 25-50 active guys who keep the forums and the site alive.

Since years there was talk about a redesign of the website..about new features.

But nothing happend. Thats why more and more people leave the place and there more and more other..more modern websites and communities.

MG is more and more a ghosttown. And if it would went offline right now..only a few hundred people would probably miss it for some days.

While the activity is light on the forums we are very popular with game developers.. the people behind the games. They get comments in email all the time thanking us. Also I a lot of these developers use the site as a reference check when hiring new people that say they've worked on games before.

And don't I get a warm fuzzy feeling knowing that I'm volunteering to perform due diligence for HR! In exchange for this vital service, surely they send the site a little kickback once in a while or submit information on their own games with which to enrich the database, right?

Dream on :/

Edit: Does that mean that our target audience is gaming company HR? Hm...

While not the majority, there are more than a few that have contributed with information and entries.

Well, the credit system is precisely the strongest aspect of MobyGames to me personally.

...says the guy who hadn't contributed anything and only joined here for self-promotion...

I actually contributed a few things. I did not only join for self-promotion.

And even if, it would not change the fact that the visitor numbers of MG are very declining. MG Is a sinking ship since years, you and nobody else here can seriously deny it.

I left the description out because when you add a link it automatically populates some of it... so I left it like that otherwise you'd see it twice.

yeah I forgot the d on the first post but was too late to change it as it was already getting views.

Well, both name (such as removing the part it automatically populates with the first listed platform in alphabetical order - no need to have that there) and description of links are editable, if very limited in size. And a description posted before link is more visible anyway, so can add it there and just remove the one it adds on its own.

But at least it makes the page look active. I mean, I wonder how we got those 1450 likes when next to nothing happens on that page :/

And we'll have to see how it'll end up looking with the new version of the feed now. Sure hope they won't mess with the lists, because I don't even know what shows up on my feed, just have a list for pages and one for friends and check those to make sure I see everything I want to and not just what Fb decides I should.

How much is "limited", actually?

Has nothing to do with the redesign

Some improvements I suggest:

* Re-design the appearance of MG. The site looked outdated ten years ago already.

* Improve the search page. See here: http://videogamegeek.com/advsearch/videogame

* Integrate with YouTube and allow people to submit "Let's Play" movies or video reviews..

* Integrate with Facebook likes, comments, etc. (Even though I do not like Facebook.)

That should help things at least a little bit.