I know there's been other threads on this, but I'd like to know what your top 5 or so (or however many you've liked) PC platform 2D shooting/killing-based games are. Here are the qualifications/guidelines to what I'm looking for:

-List only ones you've played at least a fair part of and like. Five is a guideline, there no strict maximum or minimum.

-Must have a PC version. Emulation does not count.

-Gameplay must mainly revolve around killing enemies. May contain a small amount of what could be considered adventure/RPG/other elements (like Realms of Chaos, for instance), but cannot be something like Prince of Persia or Another World.

-No 3D platformers (Rayman 2, for instance).

-Scrolling 2D shoot 'em ups like Tyrian or Raptor don't count

-Please no discussion or posts revolving around "the PC sucks for platformers, consoles are so much better", etc. Treat the PC system for what it is.

-Game may or may not be still actively sold, including freeware games.

-Additional commentary regarding thoughts on listed games may or may not be included.

Here's my own possible five candidates (in no order), but there's definitely some from the genre I haven't played yet:

-Jazz Jackrabbit series: Fast moving, plenty of action, tons of levels, good arcadey/console-like feel overall.

-Xargon: Extremely overlooked gem IMO. It's even been released as freeware. I play it literally all the time. Awesome music, great action, quite challenging at times. Not 100% smooth scrolling, but more than acceptable. Not much I have to say bad about it, really - I definitely like it more than Jill of the Jungle which is similar and somehow way more popular. I find it hard to believe how this game is so rogue compared to others. Maybe even a candidate for the most overlooked/underrated PC platformer ever.

-Commander Keen 4-6 Goodbye Galaxy + Aliens Ate My Babysitter!: Classics of course, probably among the most popular for the PC. I feel these are far superior to and age way better than the first three Keens.

-Duke Nukem II: Even if the difficulty didn't follow much of a rhythm (a common criticism I can agree with to at least some extent), I think it made up for it with great themes/textures, effective sounds, an awesome and fitting soundtrack, and plenty of fun to be had if you just treat the difficulty for what it is. Possibly my favorite non-Keen Apogee platformer.

-Earthworm Jim 1+2 and Claw: I'm including these both for a fifth choice because I haven't finished either but they both seem very professional and quite challenging as well from what I've played (for the people who say "too hard", I start each level from scratch and not from my completion of the prior level(s) as both games allow this and that's a trick to always have plenty of lives to start off in a map).

So I'd be interested in what your top ones are, what ones you enjoy/admire the most - my listing can be used as an example of the type of thing I'm looking for, if desired (though as stated in the guidelines commentary is optional). And of course feel free to discuss each other's picks (including mine) as well, as long it stays within the qualifications.

Even though I'm a PC gamer myself I'm going to cheat and include some non-pc games here because it just so happens that this genre in particular has some very good games on non PC platforms.

Also, I've always known the genre you described as "Run & Gun".

Metal Slug: Super Vehicle - 001 (arcade) - And its sequels as well. Fairly basic gameplay, but polished to the max.
Cave Story (PC and others) - Very good blend of shooting and "Metroidvania"-style exploring
Gunstar Heroes (Mega Drive)
Mega Man X (SNES) - Not a huge fan of the series, but liked this one best Duke Nukem - maybe not the franchise in its series but sure had an awesome time with it back then


If I'd have to stick to PC, I'd probably add Jazz Jack Rabbit 2's (multiplayer deathmatch!), Abuse and Earthworm Jim. Although of EWJ I'm not sure it fits in this list, because there's no real focus on shooting and there's limited ammo.

Why do so many people go for multiplayer in Jazz 2? I thought platformer basically implies single player or *maybe* coop. I don't even think there's an in-game way to play JJ2 online. If there is then let me know.

As for EWJ, as far as I can tell it counts. I've only played the first level or two of EWJ 1, but there's plenty of shooting. Also it's not unique in limited ammo; Commander Keen also has this feature (actually Jim slowly recharges if he runs out while Keen doesn't). And in Captain Claw you can be down to nothing but melee.

As a final note, I just thought I'd clarify that the games must have PC versions, but they do not have to be PC exclusive.

Thanks for the responses so far though!

Monomaniac post ahead:

There is a DOS conversion of Turrican 2: http://www.mobygames.com/game/turrican-ii-the-final-fight

You do not specify a time period, but since you mention games from the 90s, I don't know if more recent games are acceptable.

There are three good Turrican freeware clones available for Windows: T2002: http://www.pekaro.de/ T4 funeral: http://kickme.to/t4f Hurrican: http://www.hurrican-game.de/

Besides Commander Keen, what other platformers published by Apogee are worthwhile? For most of them, I don't see widespread appraisal, but just about all of them seem to have at least a few fans (I think the lowers MobyScore for nay of them is 3.3 or so).

Also the first Rayman, by Ubisoft, before they went into 3D mode (honestly, I think Rayman 2 is just a third person game, because it feels much more like that than a platformer). Not a statement about quality, but I think calling it a platformer of any kind is a stretch. I think Duke Nukem Manhattan is probably as close to 3D as a platformer can be.

Apogee? Monster Bash and Cosmo were good in the Duke Nukem fashion (the first also a shooter, the second not so much)...

(interrupted mid message) -- most of Apogee's other platformers were more puzzlers by my recollection -- at least the Arctic / Martian ones. Don't remember about Secret Agent.

Portions of Flashback definitely feel more like shooters than puzzlers.

What can I say, what can I say... vedder already mentioned Abuse, Duke Nukem: Manhattan Project is probably not your thing (2D gameplay but with 3D graphics)...

Wait...!

Find Cactus McCoy 1 & 2 for browser. These Flash games play just like retro games, have fantastic animation, music that makes you want to play more and plethora of weapons, achievements etc. Even as a kid I didn't like platformers, and I do love these two titles - that's because they're that good.

Other apogee titles I'm looking for some evaluation on: -Alien Carnage -Hocus Pocus* -Duke Nukem II (the sequel)* -Biomenace -Realms of Chaos

* = have played it before but not for a very long time. Otherwise I own the game but haven't played it.

Also, likely referencing Cosmo, jumping to kill is close enough to a shooter. The game still revolves around killing, that's what the main deal is.

And here's others I happen to have in my collection, that I haven't played and haven't been discussed: -Rayman -Alien Rampage -BlackThorne -Inner Worlds -Vinyl Godess from Mars -Zeliard

So anything I listed, does it ring a bell in your mind as being a worthwhile platformer of the style I'm looking for?

Oh, and Jazz Jackrabbit (and JJ2). Some people seem to love it. Others think it's a ripoff, either of consoles, Sonic, or both. Meanwhile, most of the user reviews are quite positive, here and on GameFAQ's as well. Where do you stand?

BTW Manhattan Project fits my limitations, it's still sidescrolling from third person perspective. I actually have Rayman 2, a 3D platformer (though to me it just seems like a third person perspective action game), and seem to be liking it so far. Now that game isn't in the prime type I'm looking for here, but still, it shows I have some range at least.

Jazz 2 multiplayer sucked IMO i mean the damage protection's annoying and there's also that dreadful spring bug that even the readme makes mention of, even in 1998 I considered it one of the more dreadful platformers on the PC platform. It felt empty overall and the atmosphere the first game established is out the window in the 2nd.

Isn't BlackThorne a bit like Prince of Persia? More about puzzles, navigating the level, than enemies - I don't recall more than 2 baddies per screen.

Hocus Pocus had decent mechanics, if you can deal with kiddie style.

Did you try Cactus McCoy yet? It's available for free, e.g. on Kongregate website.

Haven't tried Captain McCoy, but please point out any and all good freeware (at least mostly) action/run and gun platformers you know of.

What bewilders me is why Jazz Jackrabbit seems to get so much love in the reviews (look at the user reviews both here on MobyGames and also on GameFAQ's, not to mention at least a majority of the critic reviews that exist for these games, plus a handful of YouTube video reviews to boot), yet seemingly get looked down upon greatly whenever they are discussed in a forum. It's like, I just don't know which side of the argument to believe. I don't know what to make of a game that gets acclaimed in reviews yet panned in casual discussion.

As I said before, even as a kid I disliked platformers. Played at the arcades maybe once or twice in my life. I hate Mario. Who is Sonic? I simply don't have that "twitch" required to play such games. I liked the sprites in Prehistorik, but the difficulty put me off. I liked the animation in Jazz Jackrabbit and Earthworm Jim, but I die there too often.

Are you looking for old PC titles only? Like Dick Tracy, Electro Body etc.? Otherwise there are plenty of modern platformers made for browser as Flash games, all free to play.

BTW: speaking about reviews and opinions - why don't you rate your favorite games (not only platformers :D ) here on Moby? It will net you few points. Often when we see a person with zero points here at the forum we suspect them for being a spambot ;D

Side note: this thread inspired me to add Cactus McCoy games to MobyGames - submission pending! (approvers: hint! hint!)

I don't have a Flash system, so how do I play a flash game on a PC?

Also, to anyone, a list of good freeware platformers you know, that will run without an emulator, and are at least primarily action-based games (not adventure, RPG, etc.) would be welcome.

Of course if you haven't already, feel free to list good commercial ones as well. :)

Flash is a browser plugin. If you can watch YouTube videos, you already have the plugin.

Jazz was symptomatic of Epic's early approach in many regards: travel in Apogee's slipstream, then release glossier versions of Apogee's games, with more instant superficial appeal. On Kroz's heels followed ZZT; after Keen came Jill. Wolf3D begat Ken's Labyrinth, and there was even rivalry between Balls of Steel and Epic Pinball, though in this case Epic came first. A lot of Epic's historical appeal was based on someone playing for 5 minutes and going "yep, VGA graphics sure do look better than EGA ones."

What does this all mean in terms of the games themselves, though, and how might it correlate to the difference between their reception on forums versus their reception in user reviews (on either review sites or YouTube videos)? Also, I can't think of an Apogee platformer that could be fairly compared to Jazz - so what is one?

Personally however besides a little smoother scrolling, I don't see how something like Xargon (which is in the same spirit as Jill) plays or is designed any worse than Commander Keen. Sure it's not nearly as popular, but does that automatically mean it's not nearly as much fun? I'm not so sure.

And on another topic, how do I play flash games and what are some good sites to look for them on? (I'd like sites that have things such as reviews, ratings, separation by genre, etc. involved.)

I'm sorry for talking around your question, but I haven't played most of these games since they came out. The best I can do is provide some historical context. Jazz specifically isn't a derivative of anything from Apogee, but more of a "Sonic-killer", one of those '90s cool dude mascots with a little too much personality (think Poochie.)

Do you recall specific thoughts of any games from back when they came out?

Also, I can watch YT videos, so I can play flash games. Now all I need are some good sites that give rating, genre and such so I can find which games are right for me. What are some good flash game sites (that would include Cactus McCoy, etc.)?

I've already pointed you to one:
So the first thing I'd do after reading above would be typing "Cactus McCoy Kongregate" in Google search engine. It comes as the first result.

If your computer can handle Youtube, it should run at least most Flash games. You may get a window prompting you to install the latest version of the plugin for your browser, click it, it's from Adobe and it's free & legal (while other things that come from Adobe are expensive :D ). After that no installation is ever required - all games load into the browser window.

That website (and many similar ones, I'm not affiliated!) even has free registration to keep track of your favorites, achievements etc. It also has genres/themes, ratings. Don't expect elaborate reviews, though - such games are for the casual masses who play them just for one evening.

Other solution is playing at the developers' websites (some of them host their own games).

My perception of how awesome Jazz 2 was, may be warped by the fact it was the first time ever I played a mulitplayer game over LAN.

Yeah that might have something to do with it. I've played LAN games before Jazz2 on LAN (Abuse was even LANable in '96), I only ever got to play it once or twice before giving up on its issues.

There are people that hold it in high regard simply because it's a "furry" game. There's also another set that love it because "it old shcool dos abandware" or something like that. You'll always find these looking against criticism.

Just because it doesn't match Mario/Mega Man/Donkey Kong, etc. does not mean it's not a good PC platformer.

I, for one, would like to see some people say what is legitimately wrong with games like Jazz 1/2, Xargon, Claw, Earthworm Jim PC version, non-Keen or Duke Apogee platformers, etc. rather than just airing them against console games (or Epic games against the ones they imitate).

On another note, there's a free Mario PC game (no emulation) that apparently seems pretty good - Mario Forever, from Softendo. Anyone heard of/played that?

Also in any case, are there any other freeware of flash platformers (fitting my action category) that you remember having a lot of fun with? Cactus McCoy seems a pretty good flash game, I have yet to check out its freeware version Captain McCoy.

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