This thread is about flight simulator related discussion: personal experiences, new games and add-ons coming up, old games we miss etc.
Any flightsimmers here? Since my divorce with this genre (circa 2006, FSX era) I no longer track what's new, but it's impossible to fight against one's nature...
This is already old news (a year old now), but we're missing this game title anyway. While most products are add-ons, this is a brand new simulation, Swiss-made!
For a modern flight sim (which are complex modular programs) it's still fairly young, some features will evolve. A group of people complains about flight model (isn't it common to all games?) and simplified damage model (it's a civilian sim, after all), but this game has it's merits: instead of going for quantity and giving us the whole world like MSFS did, it offers quality Switzerland terrain... at 3 feet / 1m resolution! I couldn't believe my eyes, it looks that good.
Yes, you're not mistaken, thermals and gliders!
Like you mean the whole Switzerland with 1m precision? That's way too cool man.
Thanks for the post. This flight sim does look really, really good.
I tried to find out a bit more about IKARUS - the guys behind this flight sim and they do a product I'd never imagined existed, a remote control PC flight sim.
Not something that I'm going to rush out and buy, nor is one that I'm likely to run across in the local shops or car boot sales 'coz they cost £200 - £400, but the idea of using a real remote control unit to fly a sim on the pc makes a bizarre kind of sense.
Just goes to show there's always something new out there.
(Edited by Sciere (217829), Oct 22, 2012)Re: The Flightsimmers' Hangar
Sciere (217829), Oct 22, 2012
piltdown man is obviously an enthusiast, but there is also a new user called Rwolf who seems to own an impressive amount of flightsims.
Hello guys, yes I am another of these prop-heads/jet-jockeys.
At the moment my desk space is unsuited for the flying gear, and my PC rig is slightly out of date for the latest games, but I'm planning on improving it.
Good to see there are more around here anyways.
Nice to see some other flightsimmers here. That AeroflyFS looks great but I'm mainly interested in military flight simulations.
Here's something interesting from the Il-2 Sturmovik Cliffs of Dover update (18 Oct. 2012 on Steam)
We are hoping that this patch finally makes this game worthy of the Il-2 Sturmovik name and that simulation fans will give our game another look and a new chance.
Ok then, I'll give this game a new chance. It's more than a year since I bought the collector's edition but I didn't activate it on Steam yet. I love the Sturmovik series and I just couldn't believe they released such a broken game.
I recall the days of the UbiSoft forum... with Oleg Maddox personally promising patches "in two weeks", which were to eliminate the bugs, "be sure" (remember his sayings?)
I was surprised they got rid of him (?) on that last project ("Cliffs...").
Thanks. That's worth knowing. Somewhere in the attic I've got all / most of the IL-2 games and add-ons but I just haven't got round to loading them yet.
Il-2 Sturmovik and Cliffs of Dover are linked with my project that took too much of my work/time/heart to be easily forgotten.
Let's rewind 10 years of time. Sturmovik was really a breeze of fresh air back then. I was instantly amazed and hooked. Soon after I got on Internet forums (finally got broadband) I found people making new aircraft. I contacted David Zurawski (who also made planes for Strike Fighters: Project 1) and started feeding him with reference material I've collected. A couple of months later I realized that it won't be possible to complete my project using voluntary work of enthusiasts (who often quit). I knew I had to sign a deal like the creator of Pacific Fighters.
At that time Oleg Maddox told me he has a new flightsim in the works (codenamed "Battle of Britain" - yes, first 3D models for "Cliffs of Dover" were shown back then!) and that UbiSoft won't release new add-ons for Sturmovik (it was late 2003, compare what really happened). In the end, I beta tested one Sturmovik add-on, reported plenty of bugs, I was also the head of a community project that added new campaign, missions, squadrons and even some 3D objects (but PZL_Eric gets the credit as the modeler). However the add-on itself had to be moved to that upcoming game (think about new high-detail 3D models requiring more work and better reference etc.).
I was working for a guy whom I erased from my memory on over a dozen of game localization projects. Former game developer, avid flightsimmer, company owner - seemed like a good partner to team up with, right? Wrong... his ineptness and insolvency ruined my dream.
I'm no programmer, but I completed my 3DStudio certificate course before I was 14. There were no proper schools in my country back then, nor right jobs for people like me (see: Polish games & game industry in 1990s). Suddenly it seemed that I was created for such project, that this is my chance in life.
Most of you never imagined the amount of research it required, the amount of reference material needed. Add the difficulty of not having the luxury of going to, say, Imperial War Museum to photograph the plane, as most aircraft didn't survive to our times (although I did get to sit in WW2 fighter cockpit!). I traveled the country to visit museums and archives. I've build up an international network of cooperators...
That "Battle of Britain" add-on I codenamed 9/39 was to be the first game featuring air war over 1939 Poland. With the reference material collected and 3D models in the works, we also intended to release selected aircraft for the latest "Microsoft Flight Simulator". We were bolstered by the fact that fellow fans from France and Netherlands started a similar endeavor to finally let people fly and fight during 1940 Fall Gelb. Why it was so useful for us? Just think about transferring your pilot: first he fights in Poland, then escapes to fight for France, and finally to defend Britain (or the opposite for German side ;D).
I was about to meet WW2 veteran fighter pilots and even one pre-war aircraft designer. Lack of support from Maddox (we've even sent letters with business proposal in Russian; on a side note "Cliffs..." development was apparently on hold for a long time), but most importantly the complete failure on the side of my partner (who couldn't be trusted as to even maintaining the website hosting fees) effectively killed my enterprise... yet I feel as if it was me who let down people...
AeroflyFS looks nice, I saw it as it was released on Steam a few days ago. My last civil flight simulator was MS FS 2000. And as a Swiss guy I feel like I almost have to give it a try, fly over my hometown and such =)
I actually heard of Aerofly before, an earlier version a few years ago, but back then it cost a lot more (as in, about 10 times as much as AeroflyFS), so I didn't really consider it back then.
Does anyone still fly / remember the old flight simulations?
I've 'flown' some of the early flight simulators on the Spectrum and the Commodore and I think I've managed to get as far back as Microsoft Flight Simulator 3 under DOS on one of my old PCs. I found them all really hard work, blocky graphics, little or no sound and complicated keyboard controls that didn't seem to work. Flying a modern sim the other day had me wondering at the improvements that have been made. When I fly the early sims I find it just a bit amazing that the genre survived as there were many games around that were both easier to get to grips with and better looking.
I have Microsoft Flight Simulator 95, 98, 2000, 2002, 2004, and X permanently loaded on my machine, others come and go every now and again. MSFS 95 and MSFS 98 are there purely because I keep finding add-ons to submit to the database, personally I don't find them particularly pleasurable or rewarding to fly. However, I know that they and their competitors had very strong followings and I wondered if anyone here still flew the old versions for fun.
I started with F-15 Strike Eagle II :D I don't mind flat vector graphics even today (and these less-realistic games from early 1990s can provide plenty of joy because they focused on fun), but yes, I do wonder how people were willing to play (fly) solely on instrument readouts (IFR). I assume it has to do with demographics, with early computer enthusiasts being more technical-savvy, curious and eager to learn.
I'm chasing even those bad flightsims. Recently I was bugging French MobyGamers to help me with French-exclusive titles. There's civilian Airbus simulator, but sadly only for Thomson (and this platform needs fixing), but combat-oriented Missions en Rafale was also available for ST and CPC so it can be added right now. Anyone, PM me if you want reference material to add them! Je ne parle pas français, otherwise I'd do this myself.
As for the ancient MSFS titles, I only wish this guy had joined our website, be it only for the forum.
(Edited by piltdown_man (56952), Oct 24, 2012)Re: The Flightsimmers' Hangar
piltdown_man (56952), Oct 24, 2012
F-16 Strike Eagle. Now that game looks so familiar but I can't place it. It's probably the box artwork that reminds me of something else. I've looked at the screen shots and I don't think it's one I've actually tried.
If you're looking for really bad flight simulators then there's one buried deep inside old versions of MS EXCEL as an easter egg. Now that's one I have flown, wonder how the moby reviewers would react to that submission :-)
Should be allowed as "Microsft Excel (Included Games)". I think it was discussed before. I'm surprised it's not in the database yet to be honest.
I think we ruled that as an objectiveless simulator with no story or score it didn't qualify as a game, more a kind of easter egg like a boss key in a non-work application.
I knew about Doom95 hidden in Excel 95 ("Hall of Tortured Souls"), but not this one... (no wonder Microsoft's software is always bloated and slow :D) This flying-thing is in Excel 97, right?
Speaking of which, maybe some MobyGamer with Amiga emulator could complete this series of sims?
I'm still playing the old flight simulations from Digital Integration, I own all the simulations they released. F-16 Combat Pilot is one of my all time favourites and one of the best flightsims for the Amiga. When I got my first PC in 1994 I played a lot of Tornado and the Operation Desert Storm add-on. And the there's Apache and Hind, my favourite helicopter simulations.
I can't call myself a flightsimmer, but I've always been fond of airplane games with a little more "simulation" than action. My first "flight simulator" was Air Raiders for the Atari 2600. Sure, you can't call it a simulator, but the mere fact that you controlled an airplane from a cockpit view gave me a whole new level of realism while playing an Atari 2600 game.
From there, I've always enjoyed playing "soft" flight simulators. The one that I've spent more time with was probably Chuck Yeager's Air Combat. It was the first more "serious" flight sim I've played, with red-outs, stalling and things like that.
Love flight sims. Learned to fly as a kid with my bro's hand-me-downs, mainly stuff from Damon Slye (Aces of the Pacific being my favorite) and Brent Iverson (LHX, CYAC). Also of note for my videogame education was Chris Roberts' Wing Commander-series as well as Strike Commander. These days, I'm mostly into FreeFalcon while waiting for Wings Over Flanders Fields and Roberts' new project.
Best entry-level flight-sim ever made. Fact.
Condor: The Competition Soaring Simulator is another important title we're missing. It's very peculiar as it focuses solely on gliders. This makes it harder to review - maybe I'd do this myself, but I lack sailplane-specific knowledge (stuff like thermals etc.).
Looks like a well established product with a good following. They seem to have a history of on-line competitions which is good to see, while I've come across virtual airlines before but competitive virtual gliding is new to me.
I've not flown the gliders in flight sims very much. The last time I did i was reviewing the MSFS add-on 'Behind Enemy Lines' whose main mission starts with a glider flight. I'm guessing that flying gliders must be a whole different ball game, looking for thermals and ridges to generate lift, watching the clouds for signs of wind direction etc. Wonder if the standard flight sim weather effects are up to the job? It's something I hadn't thought of and I'll put it on my gaming 'to do' list, right after taking Concorde through a full pre-flight checklist and take-off.
Anyone else flown gliders or hang gliders in flight sims extensively? Are gliders in MSFS worth flying?
Condor: I have only flown it once a few years ago, during a flight simulator LAN evening.
Very realistic IMO, I liked the little red cotton string, giving airflow indication on the windshield.
The MSFS gliders I can't recall having ever flown, though there was some other glider I played with for a bit, I think it was from Flight Unlimited.
This is not a consolation (nor Schadenfreude), but even more prominent projects than mine can get stuck in developement.
My jet-loving buddies are awaiting Fighter Ops (modern, USAF-oriented) for quite a few years... <-- check some screenshots on that website.
Piltdown man, what was that community flightsim project you told me about? the one with Harrier?
I recall an Indie combat flight simulator that has been in development for quite some time. The last update on their website is over a year ago.
It initially only had a Harrier and Falklands terrain, but got more complex as time went by.
Maybe this is what you were looking for?
Last update on their Facebook page is from November 11, 2012; seems like they went through coding hell and are back on track now.
1. FMA IA-58 Pucara
2. BAe Harrier GR.3/Sea Harrier
3. Dassault Mirage III/IAI Dagger
4. Dassault Super Etendard
5. Douglas A-4 Skyhawk
(Edited by piltdown_man (56952), Nov 16, 2012)Re: The Flightsimmers' Hangar
piltdown_man (56952), Nov 16, 2012
I think it was this Argentine game that I spotted as being in development. I don't recall seeing any evidence of it having been completed.
Looks like Rwolf beat me to it.
PS - This is the first time I've cracked including a link in a post and, since I copied what I did from your original post, a "Thank You" is in order.
(Edited by piltdown_man (56952), Dec 01, 2012)Re: The Flightsimmers' Hangar
piltdown_man (56952), Nov 16, 2012
The replies above are kinda interesting. Microsoft Flight Simulators have included a glider for a while yet no-one here seems to have used it much. If I knew how to organise a poll I'd be tempted to run one on favourite plane, and/or least used plane in these games.
On a related topic has anyone flown a bizarre plane that can beat this WW1 tank I flew in "Mission: WWI Dogfight"? (OK I know it's cheating a bit)
LOL, well it looks a bit like Snoopy's Doghouse flying around :-)
I have seen in one of the FSX adventure packs for helicopters, 'Black Hawk', in one mission there is a paratrooper team that you switch to and control like an aircraft, you have to turn their engine on, and you can over-speed them by running too fast.
One of the worst things I recall was Osama bin Laden flying a magic carpet. Wrong on so many levels. But on the other hand, some may say including Hitler as a target is just as stupid.
So this poll would be about MSFS planes? I was always puzzled why people fly warplanes in a civilian sim. It would be interesting to see if people prefer small prop touring/training planes, private business jets, huge airliners etc. Go on, submit a poll!
On the subject of military aircraft in MSFS; well, sometimes there are no models of the aircraft you like in other (military) simulators, and then they will have to do.
Or, if someone has MSFS only, it is simpler to get an add-on, of e.g. a nice-looking F-16, and fly around a bit in that, compared to getting Falcon 4.0 and having to study a lot more to be able to fly it properly.
Now that you mentioned it, I can see it. For example (before IL-2 Sturmovik) there were precious few flightsims where you could fly multi-engine bombers (only B-17 series from Microprose comes to my mind).
Still, I find it like driving Formula 1 car in your backyard ;) Warbirds need to bite.
I was just wondering, is there an online catalog of MSFS unofficial add-ons? Something better than our list?
My buddy has a website where he reviews add-ons, it's been online for over 10 years, but it's in Polish only and as far as I know doesn't list older add-ons. As you can imagine I tried to convince him to at least upload screenshots here... So far the add-on list is alive only thanks to our new hope Rwolf and the stalwart piltdown man.
I haven't seen any database like that, dedicated to addons, but sometimes you find some interest groups that are testing addons.
For MSFS I just rediscovered FlightSim.com when researching an old non-flightsim game.
SimHQ, CheckSix, and other places like VatSim forums are often worth a quick visit. Older stuff may be found at MigMan's Museum.
Mostly the publishers remove the information for old products, and developers may keep it a little longer for support reasons, but since many companies disappear over the years, sometimes there is few traces to find. The Internet Archive might work for some sites, but I haven't had much luck there lately.
Some 3rd party ATC tools exist for various flightsims, like Squawkbox, Euroscope (ATC) for MSFS and LotATC for Lock-On/LOMAC (with DCSATC in the works for DCS World).
The purpose is for some player(s) to act as air traffic controller for other players in a multiplayer environment, like VATSIM.
LotATC - http://www.dartsite.org/
Euroscope - http://www.euroscope.hu/
VATSIM - http://www.vatsim.net/
I wonder whether such add-ons should be documented here or not, as tools.
Generally Moby only accepts programs with stand-alone play capacity unless officially licensed. Plenty of games have tools, most of them don't (yet) rate being added here.
Those other tools... the only things I can think of are mission/object editors, online match-making utilities etc. (please add what I missed). Creating content isn't playing.
Air traffic controllers, while themselves dependent on the separate flight simulation game, provide completely new aspect of playing - directing incoming/outgoing aircraft, not piloting the plane itself. There are ATC games, so this activity qualifies as gameplay.
Maybe they should be considered as unofficial add-ons? Some of them are even separate programs: http://www.mobygames.com/game/fdc-live-cockpit