Hey everyone. I'm typing this in an internet cafe because I don't have a computer where I live. Hope you're all well 'n that.

I thought of this topic when I was browsing through PC Gamer and read about a moment in 'Spycraft: The Great Game' where you have the option of torturing someone. They're strapped into an electric chair and you have the options of asking them questions and changing the intensity of the shocks. You can kill them, natch. This disturbes me somewhat, and it's rare that a game does this. Maybe it's because it apparently uses FMV, maybe it's because it's been months since I've played a game and I'm becoming resensitized :P, or maybe because torture is...absolutely horrible...like...really really....no. No. Obscene. Evil. And here we have interactive torture. Interactive torture! Interactive torture, for chrissakes!!

And, I want to play the game now because I'm curious. It's a moral conflict.

The last game that I've actually played that has shocked me is Alter Ego. Played it? Remember the car that pulls up alongside you when you're a kid? I didn't have enough mistrust. I read the consequences and...well lets say the blood drained from my face. Even the line that it says when you make the correct choices and escape, that you have made a wise decision because "this man hurts children", is chilling enough. You've seen this character through from when he/she was still in the womb. You've MADE them. For them to end in that way brings the horror of events like that to your attention with the immediacy of a punch in the face.

So, when has a game had this effect on you? What games are worthy of mention? ("Worthy" sounds like such a wrong word to use).

Well, can't think of any game like that now, but hey, it's been a long time, eh? How are you doing Shazbut?

I can't think of anything like that either.

But you're totally right: Torture is absolutely horrific. In fact, I'm not easily offended, but I played through GTA III recently and weirdly enough, I found it kind of sickening in the later stages of the game when (supposedly for some kind of 'comedic' value) a guy is being tortured for an extended period of time (i.e. Every time you get a new mission from a certain boss, they're *still* torturing this guy). All meant to be light-hearted fun, but it just kinda turned my stomach.

One of the reasons I can't stand GTA games is their total absence of good taste. Glad somebody else noticed that.

I've seen quite some disgusting and shocking scenes in games... by the way I totally agree that there's nothing worse than torture.

Hentai games have quite a lot of such stuff, but we shan't mention them, shall we?

I found the torture FMVs of the first Phantasmagoria very disturbing. Especially the one where this guy feeds one of his wives raw meat.

Also very shocking for me was the first chapter of Sanitarium with all those deformed children. What a pity they couldn't preserve this kind of horrifying atmosphere in later parts.

The new Punisher game has "interrogation sequences" which play pretty much as you described. I've also recently gotten my hands on a hentai game in which the objective is to stalk and rape a family of girls, and if they get pregnant you have to force them to get an abortion otherwise they kill you... Yay! Good times!

Sounds interesting. Name?

I haven't found any game so disturbing or shocking that I stop playing it. Maybe some hentai titles are a little bit gross (hint: scat, extreme bondage) but not so shocking...

Heck, I even enjoy disturbing sequences. :)

I think he's talking about Illusion Software's Rapelay.

That's the one. sorry didn't see the post before

Yep, seen it. I can upload that sequence to YouTube if you'd like.

BTW, it's worthwhile to note that the interactive torture minigame is optional. You also have the option to lean on the accused spy using some duplicitous photographs. The game has warnings about the graphic nature of the torture scene and asks you at the start of your game whether you would choose to disable that path.

I'm aware of an internet game called "Google Sepukku," where the players type kanji words into Google Image Search and browse through the results. The loser is the first person to find something so disgusting they cannot go on any more. Not to sound racist but...sheesh, I really think America should have bombed Japan into oblivion when they had the chance. :S

This is probably silly but I was rather disturbed by the naked, enslaved girls who would beg you to kill them in Duke Nukem 3D. And the humans getting SLOOOOWLY cut in half by dissection lasers in Quake 2. And the severed head that would occasionally open its eyes and stare at you in Blood.

It's strange how intentionally silly games can shock or disturb you when you least expect it.

Some other games I can think of off the top of my hand where torture comes into play:

I Have No Mouth, and I Must Scream, where a supercomputer is keeping 5 humans alive and torturing them. I remember hearing about this early in the days of controversial computer games.

Beyond Good And Evil has a character slowly being tortured to death in some kind of alien torture machine until you rescue him.

In The Getaway, you're part of a gang that at one point tortures a member of a rival gang for information.

Let's not discount the new Bully game where the protagonist (in the strict literary sense) torments his classmates for pleasure.

I found the punching of your girlfriend in the stomach in the intro movie of Double Dragon shocking.

One person's shocking is another person's erotic.

Punching girls in the stomach or torture? or both together... or both together while doing the charleston? cuz that's pretty hot!

I can't remember many moments in gaming that truly shocked me like that... Although I found the scene in Silent Hill 2 when Pyramid Head is presented to be rather disturbing; it was at least odd to see some sort of monster raping another one in a videogame, even a horror-themed one, and his whole look with the butcher-like apron and, well, the pyramid-shaped helmet, added to the general OMGWTF? O_O impression.

And the "bad" ending of The Suffering where it turns out Torque is guilty, when little Malcolm's ghost cries "Why did you do it, daddy?" also had a disturbing effect in me... the kid just sounded too believable in his delivery.

I can't remember many moments in gaming that truly shocked me like that... Although I found the scene in Silent Hill 2 when Pyramid Head is presented to be rather disturbing; it was at least odd to see some sort of monster raping another one in a videogame, even a horror-themed one, and his whole look with the butcher-like apron and, well, the pyramid-shaped helmet, added to the general OMGWTF? O_O impression.

Glad you mentioned that, Dr. Von Katze! I don't think that Pyramid Head scene is in the same league as torture scenes that are disturbing through their nastiness. But I do think that scene is one of the most disturbing and inspired moments in horror gaming (or in my limited experience of it). It's what true horror is about: Not a cheap shock ("Argh! A zombie just jumped in front of my face!") but something that really makes you think "What the hell WAS that? What did I just see?!"

It's really disturbing because it's so perverse and yet, you're not sure why it happened, or even exactly what it was that *did* happen. And once you've seen it, you're never gonna forget it ;)

So, when has a game had this effect on you? What games are worthy of mention? ("Worthy" sounds like such a wrong word to use).

Nearly all of my most recently-produced games played through have contained material that has made me uneasy. While I understand that torture and assassination come with the territory of Mafia gang wars, there were frequent moments in The Godfather (Xbox) where a moment's hesitation during an extortion resulted in the difference between able to walk away richer after a no-contact intimidation and being forced to kill (in self-defense) an innocent "pushed past the edge" after watching me trash his shop. To be fair, the game rewards judicious application of violence and penalizes (financially in both cases) excessive amounts of it.

This was not the case in Batman Begins (Xbox), where your dark hero will often beat up thugs to extract information from them. That's all well and good, in keeping with the antihero reinvention of the character in the movie, but I found having the option to continue brutalizing whimpering underlings when it's obvious that they have no further useful information to share... unsettling, much like the mouth-cam mentality in AvP.

Unlocking Ya Zhen in Jade Empire (spoiler warning) by harrassing Wild Flower to elaborate on matters she was clearly uncomfortable to cover rubbed me the wrong way, but since nearly scenario in the game had multiple solutions, some of which were more "good" or "evil" than others, this was hardly inconsistent. (Indeed, I applaud the multiple-solution approach -- sorely lacking in the above two games -- though I must say I still prefer the Quest for Glory approach where the options aren't all so specifically linked to moral decisions with impact on alignment.)

I was recently a bit shocked when I noticed that I was shooting at babies in Doom 3.

Torturing: I'm more shocked how they deal with torturing in 24. A while ago I read a newspaper article about American soldiers who asked: "Why aren't we allowed to do the same think like Jack Bauer? Obviously he is successful with his actions." Things like that in very popular TV series produce lots of supporters of torturing.

Not particularly shocked, but a few games managed to impress me over random violence. The Punisher on the arcades, where he ends up killing the first boss point-blank range after getting the information he needed and the opening sequence of Max Payne are the first that come to mind.

Nice thread!

In GTA 4, when I first used my knife in stealth mode against a guard, I was shocked: The throat-cutting animation really looks disgusting, with appropriate sounds.

Still, I like playing GTA, and when I'm feeling evil again, I like to go out, cutting throats and shooting heads of people I don't like. Every time I do it, I still feel uneasy, but still I do it... it has a certain fascination. Am I an evil psychopath bastard? I don't think so. (Of course, evil psychopath bastards never think so :-) But I know that I have an evil psychopath bastard inside of me -- like everyone, by the way.

I think this is one of the best things about computer games: It gives people a chance to live out their dark side without actually doing any harm to anybody. IMO this is of vital importance in a society that tells everyone to be always nice, friendly, self-controlled, smiling, hard-working, sensible, caring, politically correct etc. etc.

So that's why it's even more shocking that my (the German) government is trying to ban so-called "killer games" because of the old and oh so stupid and boring reason: "They're corrupting our youth!" (That the teen killers mostly come from dysfunctional families, weeeell, that's just coincidence. Right. If someone who has never known love, understanding, warmth, only hate, abuse or just negligence, stumbles upon violent computer games, I agree that this won't arrange things. But it's not the reason for teens going mad.)

At the same time, they want to ban pornography (wuahahahaha)... I don't think they'll succeed, and I'm praying to all Gods that I know that they won't. I'm certain this would leed to more sexual violence of all kinds.

Back to topic. GTA 4 still isn't only a stupid and violent game. There are a lot of cut scenes which show family, friendship, love, and tolerance, so it HAS some positive values, even if very limited...

What really shocks me are games that circulated in the German C-64 scene of the 1980s, where you had to manage concentration camps and stuff like that. Now this is really sick. There are probably still games of this kind around.

And I'd like to see that "monster rapes monster" scene... Okay, I'm an evil psychopath bastard.

Btw, GTA 4 is not even out yet.

http://www.rockstargames.com/IV/

If this were somethingawful forums that would've gotten you banned.

Violence. I endorse violence. But only responsible violence, as dictated by our genes, there is a place and time for all those emotions.

The predator cannot be tamed, only disciplined.

Violence "out of place" may it be in the force of physical violence or mental/emotional violence in the form of body language, words (ie. in forums) are somewhat childish and extremely boring due to repetitive patterns of uneducational value it inhibits.

---

Violence although natural, its classification or degrees of violence is not. The first exposure to a certain type will be noted as extremely disturbing (usually), the second time would probably not, but there are some limitations where any form of violence will almost always disturb the viewer. This philosophy is somewhat the essense of the definition of "controversial".

The aim of controversial is establish "first-time emotional experience" to violence. But at the rate of the continuing and perfecting this process, no doubt in the future we will be exposed to the most grusome acts of violent behaviour known to man, as todays violent behaviour will be yesterdays news as it has been exposed to the public.

Personally I really don't like this controversial thing. Persons who support the controversial notion in my personal subjective opinion, as I deeply care for the mental well-being for other-people's children, should be strung-up, shot and run-over by a buick. :p

Zovni, I'm surprised you didn't understand what I'm saying. That or I really have to change my ganja brand.

Indra, that was a truly dizzying post...

and yet, sex, being at least nice looking. is taboo and cannot be exposed to anyone! Go USA.

I know that I'm a psychopath bastard (not a very evil one, but still), yet I never do such stuff in games. I don't understand how can it be enjoyable to slit throats and shoot people's heads off. Especially when those are innocent people. Virtual or not, I just don't get it why so many people love playing games like GTA precisely for this reason.

I have a very bad temper and it's not uncommon that I have a wish to beat up or to kill someone I don't like (in real life, that is). But enjoying such kind of sensation in a virtual form? And actually doing that to people who didn't do anything bad to you? I really don't understand.

It's the same reason for which people watch horror movies -- an archaic fascination with violence, which is part of human nature, a part which is suppressed in modern society.


Well, in any RPG you get to kill hundreds of thousands of sentient beings; perhaps not humans, but orcs, goblins, ogres etc. Okay, they are portrayed as agents of evil, as enemies, whereas in GTA you can kill anyone just like that. And I don't like games where good and evil are well-defined, giving you a legitimation to kill.

But let's not discuss this further, as it's off-topic and seems to evolve into yet another "killer games" discussion.

HA HA! time to let you in a little info about me.

Carmageddon as mentioned in a recent post has been my favorite series of games. also, Postal 2 is funny as hell. how often do YOU get to shoot napalm at people minding their own business. random violence in games is funny.

Now what disturbs me?

The broken playground in Half-Life 2 is the first thing I can remember (I have a bad memory)

The scary/disturbing stuff gets me. violence in games doenst mean anything.

Some people think it is funny when somebody falls down and breaks his leg... This is not exactly my kind of "humor".

Just remembered another scene that shocked me: The rape scene in Three Sisters Story. It was like being slapped in the face.

Man, finally somebody pays attention to it... It is as if you've read my review for this game... I didn't mention it because I didn't want to include hentai games, most of them are sickening crap. But of course, this scene was disgusting beyond belief. And obligatory. I really hate this game, and to think it had such a promising story...

Well, depends. As you may already see, there are very few hentai games, where such thing as a love even exists. Most of the games just show meat and that's all. It's a genre where sex sells and when you start to play it, you shouldn't even expect such things like feelings, love and joy. Ofc. there are exceptions like Kana and so on.

And why I don't find rape scene(s) shocking? Because it's so unnatural. Hentai even shows that rape is good, enjoyable. At first, girl starts to scream, yell, struggle but in the end the only words you can hear are: "More! More! YEEEEES!"

That's exactly what's so sickening in this. That they want rape to excite. Sure, sometimes we have rape fantasies during sex, and I know women have them too, but people... there is a limit.

What's disturbing about rape in Hentai? Then again, anything in Hentai to me isn't neccesarily disturbing, only because its Hentai. If it weren't Hentai however...

Yeah, if a game is 100% Hentai, this is how it is, and it is fine then -- you won't play Hentai if you don't want some nasty sex scenes!

But Three Sisters Story isn't just yet another Hentai game. It's one of the few games that really tell a dramatical story really well, full of suspense, humanity and feeling, and with absolutely no sex before that one scene. And then -- BANG.

That's why that rape scene was a slap in a face. It came completely unexpected. The same scene in any other Hentai game, I wouldn't raise an eyebrow.

That's exactly the way I felt.

Reality check guys: its porn. Deal with it. No, its not meaningful and dramatic nor filled with humanity and feeling. Its Porn.

Yes, but can't porn be erotic, exciting? Why does it have to be disgusting?

Kana and Crescendo are also porn games, but they don't have such things.

Lol. That`s very witty. Just brilliant.

I fully agree with you here, but Three Sisters Story is NOT porn. It's a game with a dramatic, human and meaningful storyline. And that's exactly why this one pornographic scene struck me so hard -- I didn't expect it, after playing for two hours and so. The same scene in a normal Hentai game would just be another sex scene. It all depends on context.

Euch. Had forgot about that scene and now it came back in. That was definitely one disturbing experience.

And I'm sure everyone knows you can play this cult game on your webbrowser for free?

If not, you should! A new life is just a click away!

yeah, Im playing it now. interesting game.

While you are outside, playing alone, a car pulls over to the side of the road and the driver motions for you to come over. You notice the license plate says OBO-237.

He motions for you to come closer. He has a kind enough face. You hear him say that he is a policeman looking for a friend of yours. He asks if you will get in and help him find your friend.

You move away from the man, suspicious that he might not be telling the truth. This is smart. Intellectual sphere rises sharply. This man hurts children.

Thanks for bringing the game and that particular scene to mind; that's thought-provoking writing.

I think it'd be great if we could have a "memorable quotes" section associated with games like the IMDB does for movies 8)

Good idea!

Well no. We'll get 400 lines from Monkey Island, 3 from Zork, and "You spoony bard!"

"It's the same reason for which people watch horror movies -- an archaic fascination with violence, which is part of human nature, a part which is suppressed in modern society."

I think that's overgeneralising a bit. Remember in the old "Are games art?" thread, where someone said that art is simply the artist's expression of reality? If so, why should only nice or pretty things be considered art? Violence, gore and death has tremendous power to shock emotionally, that was something the ancient Greeks and Shakespeare understood really well.

I'm tired. This post is retarded. Like all my other ones. I'm so sorry.

*goes to bed*

LOL!

Since I'm sure you all have a morbid curiosity about the torture minigame referenced in the original thread post, I have uploaded the clip in question to YouTube (hope it's not too violent for their standards):

Spycraft Torture Minigame: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJ5oD6TaWfE

Remember, though, that physical coercion is not the only path through the game. You can also use gentle psychological duplicity to break the captured agent. I have uploaded that clip as well:

Spycraft Interrogation Minigame: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvNwHxjUve0

Does interrogation/torture themed games sound like a good idea?

Hey! I want a game group for my entire games collection too then!

I seriously question the market value of "Stijn's Game Collection Game Group". :)

It doesn't, but it probably is.

Thanks for compiling and uploading them. I've just watched finished watching them this second. After 20 seconds of the former, I didn't think I was going to be able to continue but thankfully it didn't get much worse, and it's not as bad as it could have been: there are no tears or real full-throated screams in that video, and there was occasional respite when I didn't believe her acting. Still probably the most disturbing thing I've seen in a game though, even if it's got to be a good thing that a group of designers have managed to turn (what I'd hope to be) most gamers away from an act of simulated violence in favour of choosing the softer option.

And "The Bullpen" is a really horrific name. Worse than "Room 101" by miles.

I never realised how hot women are when they're in pain.

Okay, for that I hope somebody forgets to change your litter!

You shouldn't joke about such things...

Who said he's joking?

Sheesh. It was a joke. Look, if any feminist groups or perpetually outraged people object I'll edit my post, I didn't intend it to offend. But why? That woman isn't getting hurt for real, she's an actor.

No, it's not about offending someone, it's just a really bad joke. I don't say that from a feminist point of view, I think feminism sucks, by the way.

You guys stand behind this person? Bye.

Depends on the woman.

Hey, you guys just don't know where to stop, do you? There's a limit to everything. Those jokes are tasteless.

Not as tasteless as your average hentai-game, but you know that better than me :)

Hey, what's wrong with being immature every now and then? I actually laughed a few times while watching that Rob Schneider movie no-one will talk about. I'm sure all of us are opposed to torture in real life.

...Depends on how long can she go before screaming the safe-word.

harharhar

And I was just thinking: when will Zovni show up? I mean, it's a thread with distasteful jokes! You must feel yourself right at home!

Gee, people, how old are you?

Sorry, came late to work... had a hard night :D.

And get a sense of humor already.

You think I don't have a sense of humor? Well, that's about the biggest insult you can inflict to a Jewish person. I mean, even the worst Anti-Semites didn't dare go so far.

But seriously, better not to have any sense of humor than one like this.

Such "sense of humor" is maybe fine for 7th grade, but if an adult person laughs at such jokes, I begin to suspect he is mentally at the same level as he was when he saw the first hairs appearing in his groin.

Now go back to bed grandpa!

[edit]

From Wikipedia:

alt.tasteless is a Usenet newsgroup dedicated to the discussion of tasteless and offensive subjects. It was founded in 1989.

alt.tasteless is frequented by a diverse readership, most of whom share stories and insights which would not be welcome in other fora or in polite conversation. It is in fact considered bad form to post anything in alt.tasteless which is not offensive to the point that it would be acceptable in most other situations. To that end, if one ever posts anything patently non-tasteless, it is customary to append on some tasteless anecdote or insight into any topic at all to render a post worthy of alt.tasteless.

This one's for you, Zovni! :-P

(I thought better of posting a working link...)

There's nothing tasteless about BDSM!!

If it's consensual, yeah, who cares, but that's not the same as torture.

Yeah ahum. Another sense of humor over there please, stat!

Fine. I'll take mine without the pictures, please! :-)

After you, grandson. You know old people don't sleep much, but you don't want to be late to school tomorrow morning.

Yes, yes, when you come home from school, I'll explain to you why your voice goes all squeaky sometimes. No, it's not a disease, I told you thousand times, it's something called puberty...

Oh, and get that Rorschach poster off your wall, you are not supposed to know about whores and child abuse yet! How many times did I tell you, stop reading those comics for grown-ups!

Wow, here we go again! Hi-IQ flamewars!

Maw, I knew you were joking. Still, let's not forget that there really are S/M people out there, enjoying torturing and being tortured, so it's not as far from reality as one might think... (OK I know, you'll all gleefully & deliberately misunderstand what I just said ;-) It's not my cup of coffee, but it's a bit simple-minded to say that it's sick. Violence is part of human nature, even if we don't like to admit it and all strive to be as un-violent as possible.

Ah yes, and even tasteless humor is humor, in a way. I'm a perfectly sane (WUAHAHAHAAAAA) person, but sometimes, I also have an urge for really *evil* jokes. I don't know why, but I guess it's just that you always have to be nice and PC, and joking is the only way to turn out my bad side (not that I have any. I have only one side, and it's good, now that's a fact).

I once sat in a lefttist PC cafe in a small student town in Germany and I was so fed up with all that brainwash that I haid that crazy urge to shout "Heil Hitler!", just to upset people.

But as I'm a well-mannered person (= coward), I didn't do it. Maw did. It's alright, and I chuckled a bit. Yes, it's tasteless, but I don't think of Maw as retarded. Not much more than any person I met.

Well, yes, I knew Maw was joking, and actually my first response to his post was meant to be fairly lighthearted, maybe it didn't come off that way, sorry :-S

(alt.tasteless was directed at Zovni's images.)

I'm just hoping no-one points people to the *chan sites...

I'm just hoping no-one points people to the *chan sites

? Charlie? Jackie? No, forget I asked!

(Edit - oh, that chan...thank you, urbandictionary.)

hahaha /b anyone??

All it takes is one sentence to bring a dying thread back to life.

I hope this wasn't already mentioned, but I think the most, by far, shocking moment I have ever seen in any game happened in Clock Tower 3. I am a huge survival horror fan by far (it's how I got started in video games!), and I've seen and heard a lot. But I think the scene in the game where the child (May) gets her head bashed in by Sledgehammer was absolutely gut-wrenching. Honestly. I think I stopped breathing for a minute or two and needed to go pray, hahahah. I've played a lot of games, but that scene just made me, well, kind of ... nauseus. LoL. I'm not one with a weak stomach - at all - but the sight of a child getting bitch-slapped was just horrible.

That scene was so horrific and just so out of the blue that I had to show my friends...and they all had the same reaction I did. Nevertheless, I still like the game, and I think "realism" like that really makes this genre great (not that I'm saying I like watching children get murdered, I'm just saying that they do a really good job at giving good psychological scares...okay, I'll stop now!).

-Sunny