Forums > Off Topic > I need video capturing advice
chirinea (47496) on 7/9/2010 3:09 AM · edited · Permalink · Report
Guys, I just bought myself a video capture device to grab some Zeebo screenshots, but so far I can't do squat with it. My prior experience with video capturing was with a GeForce 4 Ti 4400 with capture capabilities, and I only recorded VHS films into my PC. Since my primary machine now is my laptop and I didn't want to buy anything expensive I bought this. It sure is a shitty device, but I never thought I would get results so bad.
The device came with a software called Ulead VideoStudio SE DVD, and it allows me to record video or to grab screenshots. I though "cool, I won't need to mess with video editing, I'll just click a button and voilà". Well, here's the result:
Now I'm wondering: is this related to the software I'm using or to the shitty hardware I bought? Would it be better to record a video and then take screenshots from it? Are there any tricks to get better results from such devices? I know some of you are familiar with this, so any help will be appreciated.
BurningStickMan (17916) on 7/9/2010 3:45 AM · edited · Permalink · Report
It is generally easier to record a video and pull screenshots from that, though your final output will have been compressed twice (once to the video, once to the jpeg). This can be managed.
Did you connect using S-Video or composite? (Between the two, always use S-Video).
What "quality" settings did you use in the software when capturing? High quality? Did it give a bitrate? Did it give a choice of compression scheme? If none of the above, time to look into better software.
VirtualDub is a pretty solid freeware capture/editor. There are some tricky options in there if you're not familiar with digital video though. It will let you capture an uncompressed file, and if it still looks like your linked picture, time to get a better capture device.
The fact that the sales page for your capture device gives no real technical information is also suspect.
Servo (57070) on 7/12/2010 9:59 PM · Permalink · Report
Looks like composite video based on the artifacts. The only way around that is to use s-video or better! I've had bad luck with all the usb capture devices I've tried (well, ok, all two of them...); they seem to add some compression artifacts of their own I couldn't figure out how to get rid of. So I'm guessing the problem is a cheap, usb device combined with composite video.
chirinea (47496) on 7/13/2010 1:11 AM · edited · Permalink · Report
I'm using composite video because even if my device supports S-video, the Zeebo doesn't have an S-video output. I tried to mess with some of the options in the capture software but couldn't get better results (at least with the screenshot function). I downloaded VirtualDub and recorded 2 seconds of video. The video came out flipped vertically, I took a screenshot from the video as it was playing in Winamp, flipped it back and cropped the image and then resized it to make it 640x480 (the output video is 640x480, but it leaves a black border which doesn't belong there). Here's the result:
Here's how it looks like without cropping the border and resizing:
I know it isn't the same screen as the previous but I guess you can see how better it is. I was planning on posting some other test results but I travelled 1500 Km for a one week vacation, brought everything but simply forgot to bring the goddamn power source. =/
Anyway, I guess it would be better if I could just take screenshots directly from the preview on VirtualDub, but there are those video acceleration issues that won't let me. If that isn't too much compression, I guess I'll go with the video->screenshot approach. What do you guys think?
Servo (57070) on 7/13/2010 4:17 AM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start chirinea wrote--]flipped it back and cropped the image and then resized it to make it 640x480 (the output video is 640x480, but it leaves a black border which doesn't belong there). [/Q --end chirinea wrote--]Actually the black border does belong there as it would display that way on the real system so don't crop it and resize the remainder. Depending on your tv you may not notice it much if at all though as that is in the overscan area.
chirinea (47496) on 7/13/2010 5:28 AM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Servo wrote--] [Q2 --start chirinea wrote--]flipped it back and cropped the image and then resized it to make it 640x480 (the output video is 640x480, but it leaves a black border which doesn't belong there). [/Q2 --end chirinea wrote--]Actually the black border does belong there as it would display that way on the real system so don't crop it and resize the remainder. Depending on your tv you may not notice it much if at all though as that is in the overscan area. [/Q --end Servo wrote--]Oh, good to know! Well, anyway, does that screenshot look acceptable? I mean, video capturing is the only way nowadays to have Zeebo screenshots documented here, and I didn't want to wait for someone with a real capture device to submit them (that would take forever, I guess).
j.raido 【雷堂嬢太朗】 (94209) on 7/13/2010 5:57 AM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start chirinea wrote--]Oh, good to know! Well, anyway, does that screenshot look acceptable? I mean, video capturing is the only way nowadays to have Zeebo screenshots documented here, and I didn't want to wait for someone with a real capture device to submit them (that would take forever, I guess). [/Q --end chirinea wrote--] It doesn't look any worse than a lot of other screen-cap shots we have on file, and if there are no other options for getting these documented I see no problem. It's not like they're hideously bad quality, just a bit fuzzy...you can still clearly see what's going on.
The worst that can happen is eventually someone with a better setup shows up an replaces your screens with better-quality ones. :P
chirinea (47496) on 8/4/2010 4:09 AM · Permalink · Report
Well, today I spent some time reading tutorials on how to take screenshots using VirtualDub, and it seems I need to record the gameplay in order to do so. That isn't something bad per se, as I can search the video frame per frame to get screenshots.
The problem is that I tried to capture an uncompressed video and holy mother of fuck, it takes about 20 MB per second! It's like 1.2 GB for each minute of gameplay! So I decided to turn the compression on (DivX) and now I have artifacts all over it.
Damn, is it really this everything or nothing approach? I never thought taking screenshots from videos was so hard!
Foxhack (32100) on 8/4/2010 4:36 PM · edited · Permalink · Report
Do -not- use DivX. It stinks. Use XviD.
http://lparchive.org/techsupport/gamebridge/guide-gamebridge.html
Look at the bottom of the page. All my captures (for both Youtube and MG) used those settings. Depending on the game, 10 minutes of video and audio took up about 1.4 to 2 GB of interlaced footage. If you don't want to record the audio, then be sure to uncheck that in the capture screen to save a lot of space.
If your laptop has a dual or multicore CPU, make sure to set the appropriate settings in the XviD configuration screen. You'll get better performance.
P.S. There's at least two different kinds of EasyCap capture devices, one of them is absolute garbage while the other is much better. You seem to have gotten the good one, so that's a good thing.
chirinea (47496) on 8/4/2010 5:07 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Foxhack wrote--]Do -not- use DivX. It stinks. Use XviD.
http://lparchive.org/techsupport/gamebridge/guide-gamebridge.html
Look at the bottom of the page. All my captures (for both Youtube and MG) used those settings. Depending on the game, 10 minutes of video and audio took up about 1.4 to 2 GB of interlaced footage. If you don't want to record the audio, then be sure to uncheck that in the capture screen to save a lot of space.
If your laptop has a dual or multicore CPU, make sure to set the appropriate settings in the XviD configuration screen. You'll get better performance.
P.S. There's at least two different kinds of EasyCap capture devices, one of them is absolute garbage while the other is much better. You seem to have gotten the good one, so that's a good thing. [/Q --end Foxhack wrote--]Unfortunately my laptop is a bit old (low end Dell, mid 2007) and my processor is a single core Sempron. Anyway, the videocapture seems to run fine that way.
I'll surely take a look on that tutorial you linked, Kit, thanks. So, just to be sure, compression is fine for screenshots here at MG, right? I was about to resource turning the capture device on and off while playing to record mini videos of one or two seconds and then selecting screenshots from there. But if compressed shots are still good enough, I'll go with them. I'll bug you more if I need further help.
Unicorn Lynx (181780) on 8/4/2010 5:31 PM · Permalink · Report
Hey Kit, you are back! Good to see you again :)
chirinea (47496) on 8/4/2010 6:56 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Foxhack wrote--]I'm not really back. But someone has to help Chirinea get Zeebo screenshots since I can't afford to buy that atrocity. :P [/Q --end Foxhack wrote--]Saw that, bitches? He's back only for me! ...err...
Anyway, I really appreciate the help! I downloaded the codec and made a test, worked like a charm. I didn't know Xvid or even HuffYUV were lossless encoders. The file ended up a bit bigger than expected, but that's OK, with the space I have on file I can record about 35 minutes which are more than enough to grab some good screenshots (then I can burn the video on a DVD or just delete it).
I have a few more questions, though. I recorded in 640x480 because that's Zeebo's output resolution. Is there any reason why I should preffer a higher resolution, even if the machine isn't capable of showing more than that?
Also, I read that I could also record it in 640x240 to avoid interlacing and then just resize the picture. I saw the results in the tutorial and even though I know I would get better results with 640x480, is there any other reason why I shouldn't use 640x240?
Last, I used an deinterlace filter and got much better images (less fuzzy). Is there any other filter I should use post recording to get the most accurate image? Thank you a lot in advance!
Foxhack (32100) on 8/4/2010 7:40 PM · edited · Permalink · Report
640x480? Don't you have another resolution down in Brazil? You know, since you use PAL for some reason. All my captured screenshots were at 720x480 because that's the native NTSC resolution, so even if the system doesn't output 720x480 it'll fill out the remaining space with... nothing! So you should capture at the TV signal's native resolution instead of something lower.
And for god's sakes, DO NOT RECORD STUFF AT HALF HEIGHT. EVER. BAD CHIRINEA. BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD. whacks you with a newspaper
Interlaced graphics in most consoles DO matter. Things will look BAD if you record at half the vertical resolution in ALL modern consoles, Zeebo included. This isn't a big problem with consoles that have blocky output, like the NES, but consoles like the PS1, Saturn and so on use the interlaced graphics to a large extent. The images will look all squished and incomplete if you record at half height, because it uses the interlacing to trick the eye into making things look much more detailed. This is why proper deinterlacing after capturing the images is VERY IMPORTANT. Depending on the game, how it outputs video, and how you -captured- the video, you can use one of several different deinterlacing methods, but that's another hell of a problem. (I've had some games that don't require any deinterlacing because of their framerate, but they're not a very common sight.)
chirinea (47496) on 8/4/2010 8:41 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Foxhack wrote--]640x480? Don't you have another resolution down in Brazil? You know, since you use PAL for some reason. All my captured screenshots were at 720x480 because that's the native NTSC resolution, so even if the system doesn't output 720x480 it'll fill out the remaining space with... nothing! So you should capture at the TV signal's native resolution instead of something lower.[/Q --end Foxhack wrote--] Well, digital TV can go up to 1080p, but Zeebo was designed aiming us poor people with old analog tube 4:3 TVs, you know? PAL-M has 525 lines in its native resolution, so a perfect 4:3 would be 700x525. The thing is, even if we can see something like 700x525 on a tube TV, wouldn't it be upscaled (since Zeebo's output is 640x480)? Besides the higher resolution my device can get is 720x480, which leaves me with a horizontally stretched image, which isn't the way the images were supposed to be shown.
[Q --start Foxhack wrote--]And for god's sakes, DO NOT RECORD STUFF AT HALF HEIGHT. EVER. BAD CHIRINEA. BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD. whacks you with a newspaper[/Q --end Foxhack wrote--]I won't, I won't, I promisse!
Foxhack (32100) on 8/4/2010 10:30 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start chirinea wrote--]Well, digital TV can go up to 1080p, but Zeebo was designed aiming us poor people with old analog tube 4:3 TVs, you know? PAL-M has 525 lines in its native resolution, so a perfect 4:3 would be 700x525. The thing is, even if we can see something like 700x525 on a tube TV, wouldn't it be upscaled (since Zeebo's output is 640x480)? Besides the higher resolution my device can get is 720x480, which leaves me with a horizontally stretched image, which isn't the way the images were supposed to be shown.[/Q --end chirinea wrote--]All my consoles output at 720x480 but we only see a fraction of the image because of overscan. And the site's console screenshot approvers have told me to submit 720x480 shots. Always. No cropping. So ask them.
j.raido 【雷堂嬢太朗】 (94209) on 8/4/2010 8:20 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Foxhack wrote--]I'm not really back.[/Q --end Foxhack wrote--] Every time I see that handsome mug of yours on Kotaku I get a little sad. :(
Indra was here (20756) on 8/5/2010 3:38 AM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Foxhack wrote--]I'm not really back. [/Q --end Foxhack wrote--] Yes, you are. It's just us against all these barbarians from developed countries!
Indra was here (20756) on 8/5/2010 4:25 AM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Foxhack wrote--]If what you said about your internet speed is true, then you won't be doing much MobyGames work - instead you'll be catching up with the porn industry. [/Q --end Foxhack wrote--]Oh, I have enough speed to do both at the same time now. Muahahaha!
Which basically means I can get your stuff approved fast. You can be happy now.
chirinea (47496) on 8/5/2010 12:53 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Bhatara Dewa Indra I wrote--] [Q2 --start Foxhack wrote--]If what you said about your internet speed is true, then you won't be doing much MobyGames work - instead you'll be catching up with the porn industry. [/Q2 --end Foxhack wrote--]Oh, I have enough speed to do both at the same time now. Muahahaha!
Which basically means I can get your stuff approved fast. You can be happy now. [/Q --end Bhatara Dewa Indra I wrote--]Just make sure you keep the same hand in the mouse all the time, OK? I mean, I don't want that other hand approving my stuff, eeew.