PSP

Chrono Trigger

In dungeons, you conveniently find weapons of your party's choice in many chests. Now, this might not sound like an issue to most, but the thing is that it really makes it feel like this world was made for you and not that you're merely inside of it. It feels... staged. It deters from the feeling of adventure. This is present in quite many JRPGs to my knowledge, though, and I certainly think this is something WRPGs do much better. I'd rather go to some obscure store and use my hard-earned currency to gain a really good weapon, do a quest for one, or combine weapons and items for a new or and improved weapon. But at the same time, I think that is actually less fun. It's more rewarding, though, which gives a great feeling. Also, in most WRPGs, you can actually SEE your equipment (not only weapons) -- that is a feature I feel JRPGs (including Chrono Trigger) sorely lack. I like to not only feel stronger, but to also get a visualization of it. And I like variety. One of the reasons I like RPGs in general is, besides getting stronger the more you play, that you get to look cooler with time. In an RPG where you don't have visible equipment I usually settle with what I can survive with and don't always bother to fight for something better (although Chrono Trigger kindly gives me better weapons all the time :P), whereas in RPGs where you CAN see new equipment I always strive to get something cooler - and better, naturally. I also very much like customizing how I look (not necessarily face but just combining different equipment). But now I'm drifting off.

This is coming from someone who generally prefer JRPGs, mind you! I love overworlds, I love menu-based fighting, I love Japanese fantasy, I love improbable clothing and armor. All that good stuff. The freedom of most WRPGs, while I love freedom, usually makes me unable to get into them, actually. There's just no sense of direction to me. I really, really wish I could get the best of both worlds for once. I have at least as many complaints about WRPGs as I do about JRPGs. I could kill for a game that is mostly in the style of a JRPG, but with the customizability and some of the freedom of WRPGs.

This is a great game, though. I just recently got into it. I always thought people were severely overrating it, until I gave it a proper chance. I can see why so many people absolutely love this game now. I'm only about 4 hours into it, but it's been a blast so far. My complaints are really aimed towards JRPGs in general, and I shouldn't blame Chrono Trigger for them. But nevertheless it's present in this game as well. It, like so many others, didn't try something new in such departments. At least it has a battle system that's a lot of fun, though. And I love the overworld of it. Different to anything I've seen, really. Or actually not...it's quite similar to the overworld of Terranigma, in that there are no random encounters or anything (admittedly, Terranigma is the wrong type of game for random encounters to begin with).

Oh, how I am rambling. Sorry about that. I doubt anyone even cares about what I have to say.

Chrono Trigger is a Super Nintendo game. These problems you state are pretty standard for the hardware limitations of the generation. It's not like your armor ever changed in Shadowrun. For that matter, is finding the perfect weapon in a box in the deepest depths of a dungeon much better than finding just the right ammo for the gun you're carrying everywhere?

Truth. And yeah, I know it's pretty standard... But take Crystalis for the NES. In that game you can get new sets of armor, and you can see them. To give another example, take Faxanadu, a somewhat low-quality NES game. That also has armor and other equipment (not only weapons, but also shields and helmets), all quite visible, all different.

Surely, the SNES should be more than capable of the same. It's really just an unnecessary genre norm, in my opinion, which nowadays is probably present only because they want to use pre-rendered cutscenes every once in awhile because they're just...so...pretty (which I agree with, but I am willing to sacrifice those cutscenes for somewhat worse graphics processed in real-time). Or because they really want their characters to be iconic, I guess. And I can understand that, to an extent. The characters do seem carefully designed to stand out, and I guess that's a huge part of the genre... Yeah, again, a genre norm.




Sorry, but I'm a bit uncertain what the question is. This was not about ammo, but weapons themselves. You happen to, every once in awhile, stumble upon a sword (Chrono's choice), a bow or crossbow (Marle), some fists (for Robo), guns (Lucca's choice)... etc., probably. Mostly one of each in order and not four swords before occasionally one gun, or something, either.

I haven't gotten far, though, and things might just change later in the game. But for now, it feels staged, yes.

I hear you, but its par for the course man. I always rationalized this as the game only showing you the items you stumble upon AND that are usable by your party, with everything else being discarded as junk. As you mentioned this is mostly due to dramatic choices and character designs so yes the only thing Lucca can use are raygun-type handguns because that's the way she was conceived and goes with her techy-design. Is there any rationale as to why she can't pick up a crossbow as Marle? Or why Chrono can't use Toad's swords? No of course not, but such are the design tropes jrpgs work with.

If I remember correctly, those games only changed your appearance to show that you were wearing armor. They didn't have separate graphics for each individual armor upgrade. I may be mistaken, though, it has been a while since I've played either of those games, but I distinctly remember the shield not changing with each upgrade in Crystalis. Its especially difficult to imagine being possible given the NES's extremely limited sprite tables.

Regardless, both those games had much less variety in equipment than Chrono Trigger and other similar RPG's. Cartridge space back in the day was extremely limited, and being able to store and display so many different equipment configurations is unfathomable. Sacrifices would have to be made, and it wouldn't be worth it.


I understand that, what I'm saying is that it's simply one of those quirks in video game logic. It's like in shooters where you find health kits and ammo specifically suited to your gun just lying around. It doesn't make sense, no, but it's one of those things that you aren't supposed to think about because you're playing a video game and that's just how these things work.

Yeah, you're right.




I'm pretty sure you're right, but the point is that if they did that on the NES, the SNES' hardware should be well enough for a large variety of armors. They could just make about 20 different gears for Chrono, as 20 different sprite sets. I wouldn't really mind not being able to equip individual helmets or gloves or boots... Just as long as you get to look different. It wouldn't have to be much more advanced than Final Fantasy V's job system (change a character's job and he gets completely different armor); they could just do it differently.




I hear what you're saying. But, while I understand that the whole shooters thing was just an example, I think that's a different deal and I don't actually mind it. It's just that RPGs, to me, are about feeling a bit involved. It feels a bit less involving if you get the feeling of it actually being staged. I mean, you always know it is, but I think you're supposed to NOT think about it, get fooled for the moment. Really feel like you're accomplishing something and not just playing some pre-determined role, as if it's merely a play.

Like Zovni says, it's pretty much a required design element in JRPGs. To that I add that "Chrono Trigger" is among the least deep and "light" examples of the genre in terms of character customization. Not to mention its very low difficulty level.

Don't get me wrong, I adore "Chrono Trigger", but if you are looking for more customization and less immersion-breaking conveniently placed items, try a Megaten game.

We really need a game group with a similar theme. Dang I need to play Megaten.

Wonders how to get it to run on a PC

Emulators :>

Thanks for the recommendation, though I've already played (but not nearly finished) about five Megami Tensei games; Shin Megami Tensei, Shin Megami Tensei II (I think), Shin Megami Tensei: Devil Survivor, Shin Megami Tensei: Strange Journey, and Shin Megami Tensei Imagine - Online. I guess the latter doesn't really count, as it is an MMORPG. Very, very different. :P I guess Devil Survivor is at least as different, though.

I need to give them a proper shot, don't I? Also, how's the Persona series? While I like old-school first-person RPGs, constant dungeon crawling can often get tiresome to me, so if the Persona games are as good (and deep)... I'd rather go with them. :D

Also, how's the Persona series?

Gotta try the first because it's so damn unique. The second (2 parts) are downright awesome.

I couldn't enjoy the third one, though. Can't stand random dungeons and merry Japanese high school atmosphere. Didn't try the fourth for same reason.

Also, do try Digital Devil Saga games for PS2. Superb story-telling there.

Aight. I'll be sure to check out the first two Personas. And I'll check out Digital Devil Saga, when possible. At least the first one.

Thanks a lot! Much appreciated. :)

The Persona games are also THE Rpg series if you fancy yourself a weaboo.

I have a question for you: What's your idea of "superb storytelling"?

I ask because as far as I can remember, the games you usually like have huge, larger-than-life stories that might easily become the novel of the century and whatnot, but they're never good examples of storytelling (stuff like Planescape: Torment or Xenogears come to mind right away). So either your tastes have changed, or we have different views of what the term "storytelling" implies, and I'm interested to know about either option.

I have a question for you: What's your idea of "superb storytelling"?

Tough question, Doc. Mostly (maybe entirely) a question of taste, actually.

I ask because as far as I can remember, the games you usually like have huge, larger-than-life stories that might easily become the novel of the century and whatnot

Bingo. That's what I like. Provided they are reasonably well-written and don't have too many too stupid twists. But I'm okay with those if it's clear that the writer really put his heart into the story.

but they're never good examples of storytelling (stuff like Planescape: Torment or Xenogears come to mind right away).

Hmm, for me, Torment and Xenogears are most certainly good examples of storytelling. Guess you and I aren't on the same page here...

Or maybe I should stress: good example of storytelling in video games. I mean, video games don't even have to have a story. The fact the writers for those two particular games came up with such beautiful, long, deep, elaborate stories, means something to me. That doesn't mean these stories could compete with Shakespeare or anything.

So either your tastes have changed, or we have different views of what the term "storytelling" implies, and I'm interested to know about either option.

Well, my tastes haven't really changed; my attitude has. Thing is, I don't care for stories as much as I did before. I care now only for the game to entertain me. No matter how. But usually through gameplay. If a game has a completely crappy story but great gameplay, I'm certainly in. If a game has an awesome story but very problematic gameplay, I'll probably be in as well. But if the gameplay is pure boredom or nearly non-existent, I won't like the game, even if its story is worthy of the Nobel prize for literature.

For example, I don't demand from a FPS to have a great story. These games are enjoyable through gameplay and atmospheric immersion. They don't really need a story. With RPGs, is a bit different. Slow adrenaline-less gameplay usually demands a narrative as an additional stimulating factor.

It's also important what style we are talking about. Your dislike to Xenogears' story probably has something to do with your dislike to JRPGs generally. Overblown pseudo-philosophical mumbo-jumbo drama is part of what makes these games so endearing (to me).

I know you like it when a game uses gameplay devices to tell a story (System Shock, Bioshock, in a way also Half-Life); yeah, I like it too. But to tell you the truth, I couldn't care less about the story of Half-Life games. In my opinion, they sucked. The games were awesome, though.

Bottom line is, yeah, I still like a good thought-provoking story, but I don't require it from a good game. And I don't care how the game tells its story, be it through forgotten logs and e-mails, interactive cut scenes, plain old FMVs, or even text.

I don't have much experience with SMT, but I found Persona 4 to be a fantastic character-driven drama. Can't say much for how it plays, though -- I watched my roommate play through it.

From what I understand, it's a bit more upbeat than P3 was, and a little less restrictive. Not quite as much focus on the whole school element either, apart from the characters being students.

I don't know about that. By the same token most Megaten are really convenient when it comes to monster levels. You just happen to find demons at the right level as you pass through areas, however unrelated the areas may be to each other. The exceptions I guess being P3, where monsters get stronger the closer you get to the top of the tower, and SMT 1, where you could fuse a level 52 demon at level 10.

Actually the only RPG I can think of where monster progression seemed logical was, ironically, Lunar. You start in a backwater nowhere town, and each step in the game brings you closer to the dark side of the moon, where the strongest monsters live. Plus there're those few really strong monsters camping out around the women's bath, who are probably there for the same reason you are.

I know exactly what u mean. and when u said "being stage" i realy figure the exact feeling that i feel when there is some illogical thing involve in rpg game, its like something that discontinue, thing that mess-up the flow and amusement in the gameplay (event a fiction must have it logic, fiction is not an absurd thing, it unreality, fantasy, but not absurd).

But i do agree adzuken, in earlier video game (sness) that thing does not count as an issue and chrono already bring more then public expectation. But i a little bit different in my point of view "it just a game". Thing are evolving, this time people are not just play a video game for playing a game or for fun, but to experience, to feel, and to actively adjust and choose the course of the game, its like reading a 3d novel and u actively take a role on the story. People demand in video game are evolving. And that is a good sign.

But i still love chrono triger, and bring this game in the first list of my favorite game. First, because i play and end this game for hundred time already (it bring me kind a sweet nostalgic). Secondly, because this game is my first rpg.