Windows

Fallout 3

I mean, everyone and their dog have been flipping their poo over this game like crazy for the past week, and I've been expecting for as long for my fellow Mobygamers here (especially those with experience in the series) to express their thoughts, which are the only ones that count in the entire internet, as we know well u___u





Man, what an ass-kisser.

Anyway, is this one as good as they say? If I like S.T.A.L.K.E.R. but would like it to be more complex character-building wise and I like Bloodlines but I would like it to feature a smoother gameplay system (especially the combat parts), am I gonna like Fallout 3? What do you mean, "not a fucking mind reader"?

My son is in the midst of this game, and he keeps saying "You don't understand, it's Oblivion times three" :) I'll ask him about it in the morning.

That's about as good as a one line summary gets in my book, I suppose. I'll pick it up next year. :p

Err...does that "Oblivion times three" include bugs too?

Yes :)

Oh, OK. It's better when you know what you have to face. :-)

I'm actually waiting for this guy's review of the game to come out. (Well, looks like he posted part one already.)

I don't always agree with his opinions, but he always takes the time to explain the games in depth, and I really like him for that. (By the way, his reviews are not work safe due to language.)

I am playing it right now. 12 hours into it. So far I really like it. It's not really on the level of Bloodlines or original Fallout as far story, content and "deep shit" go. And writing is subpar even for me. But it's an interesting experiment to see Oblivion spiced up with the stuff from such a legendary game. A nice idea, I think I will call my review - "Oblivion with spice". ;-)

Quests are here are more on the amusing side rather than thought provoking stuff from the original game. Which is still fun and keeps you glued to the monitor like nothing else.

Combat is fun as much as combat in Oblivion was fun. I'm sure you've seen videos with VATS in action. Sure, it's great to dismember various similar looking foes, but it does get repetitively annoying after a short while. Guns are varied.

Visuals are really spectacular and panoramic vistas with Washington monument looming in the background is simply breathtaking.

So, yeah, it maybe considered a mix between STALKER and Bloodlines if we forget about those other two games that gave birth to this one. It's more detailed and much more biggger than STALKER, although the denizens of F3 doesn't do much except for mindlessly walking around. It's combat is a bit better than Bloodlines, but it fails to capture the particular brand of magic Troika and Black Isle games were famous for. Which is ok, since it compensates with stuff it does really, really well.

Oh, and of course, it's easily the least resource demanding AAA game currently on the market.

I've started to play the game yesterday evening. My character (it was a girl) was born, then she explored her first children room, and then her 10th birthday was appointed. I've talked with several characters, and even this short look at the game captured me. Personally, I've seen similarity of the game with Oblivion (of course) and Bioshock. My character was not grown up to play the game itself, but very first steps (even if they are used to configure this character) were implemented in such a warm, atmospheric style, even with some parts of humour or sadness, that you can't stop to play the game further. My friend, who played the game to his 13th level already, did not do anything than gameplay. Mechanics of original Fallout (which was his one of the favourite games) connected with ability to hit different parts of body with different probabilities for accurate hits, and different hit's power, was kept in this game. And it makes him happy. But he is sure that game can't be played by children. Even if my friend likes bloody horror movies, action in this game allows him to do not give the game to his 6-years old son (he prefers NFS: Most Wanted). When head of your foe explodes as water-melon, it makes you happy that it is not your head was exploded, but such scene is certainly not for children. Why I've mentioned Bioshock? Because 50's style music and different posters, mutants, etc. reminds me the atmosphere and style of Bioshock. I guess, fans of Bioshock will find something in this game also. I have not seen S.T.A.L.K.E.R., even if it was made in Ukraine and I'm living here also, due to different personal or some not clear reasons, and can't say anything of resemblance of this game and Fallout 3.

So DJP Mom, just look at gameplay of this game by yourself, before give it to your son. :-)

Also I've posted a message in Forum Call of Duty 4 causes teen to run away from home. to suggest parents or this kid to get the Fallout 3 and to forget about Call of Duty 4. But now I'm not sure, what event may occur if somebody very obsessed will stop to play this game. This game is a drug for a very long time. It is certainly. Be careful with it. And try at all costs to do not be obsessed by this game also!!!

At 17, I think he can make his own game-playing decisions :)

Although I loved the first two games, I don't think I'll buy this one. I enjoy RPG's but not FPS'es and from what I hear this one's far too much like the latter genre and far too little like the first for me to like it (or even be able to play it as I have the hand-eye coordination of a lunch box.

"I hear this one's far too much like the latter genre and far too little like the first for me to like it."

Just the natural evolving process of the genre, really. Every mainstream rpg is like that these days (ever since Oblivion really). There's no stopping it and personally I have made an altar to this process and I worship there every night. Even if you don't like the process, it's always good when a genre is evolving, rather than when it stays the same in it's "perfectedness" - see adventure games.

But, if you really would like to play rpg's that suit your "lunchbox coordination" then perhaps this game (currently still in making) might interest you. It's an indie, but for the next few years indies will be the only ones doing that kind of thing.

Just the natural evolving process of the genre, really. Every mainstream rpg is like that these days (ever since Oblivion really). There's no stopping it and personally I have made an altar to this process and I worship there every night.

My feelings exactly. Turn-based combat is dead, because it has been done to death and there isn't anything left to do in it any more. Real-time combat has a long, bright future. Actually, It is still in a rudimentary shape that doesn't go much beyond "click mouse buttons rapidly to win". The more physics evolve, the more refined, realistic, cool real-time combat we'll see.

Mount&Blade - I'm only going to mention it once =)

So wrong, so unexpected. Sure there are not many games currently featuring any kind of the turn-based system, but it can't really be substituted with the reflex-based combat. It's just different and provide another kind of fun.

I miss a good turn-based RPG since Fallout 2 and Jagged Alliance 2 and I hope it will make its comeback in the independent titles.

"Actually, It is still in a rudimentary shape that doesn't go much beyond "click mouse buttons rapidly to win". The more physics evolve, the more refined, realistic, cool real-time combat we'll see."

As of yet, the only thing that evolved physics add to games is a more refined and realistic way of depicting the consequences of "click mouse buttons rapidly to win". The combat system of each and every real-time RPG I played eventually turned out to be hardly more than Diablo-in-pretty.

As of yet, the only thing that evolved physics add to games is a more refined and realistic way of depicting the consequences of "click mouse buttons rapidly to win".

Yep, true enough, unfortunately. But I was talking about the potential of the system, not its current state.

As for turn-based combat, it has already exhausted all its possibilities. I love turn-based combat, more than real time actually, but is there anything new to add to it that hasn't been done before?

"But I was talking about the potential of the system, not its current state."

I realised that. ;-)

"As for turn-based combat, it has already exhausted all its possibilities. I love turn-based combat, more than real time actually, but is there anything new to add to it that hasn't been done before?"

Maybe we have to define what we mean by "real-time" and "turn-based". If you'd count so-called hybrids, such as Infinity Engine-style battles among turn-based systems (which I do), then I have to disagree that turn-based combat exhausted all its possibilities. I'd like to point out the critically acclaimed, but (in terms of its combat system) still under-appreciated Final Fantasy XII as an example. At its core it is still strictly turn-based like Infinity Engine RPGs, but thanks to the genius Gambit system, the battles are much more dynamic, because you don't have to stop the action every few seconds, while still offering the same tactical depth. When I first played it, I was sure that this would be very influential to the genre, but unfortunately, to this day nobody did even attempt to re-use it, let alone build up on it. It's an outrage, and I think this direction has tremendous potential of revitalising turn-based combat.

In my book, real-time combat is mostly based on reflexes, and I don't see how such a system could ever achieve a similar depth as a turn-based one. When you have to make quick decisions, it's only natural that tactical possibilities must be comparably limited. Don't get me wrong, I like to play a good action RPG once in a while, but I don't see much potential for evolution in real-time systems, and I don't see how physics could contribute to that.

I got one word for you: Combos =D

Seriously, just by implementing a melee combat interface with a cleverly designed combo system can add a lot to an otherwise plain and generic action game. For any faults you can point out, Devil May Cry (the third one anyway, it's the only one I played) nailed this concept down masterfully. Everyone should go through that one to see just how deep an out-and-out fighting game can become.

"Seriously, just by implementing a melee combat interface with a cleverly designed combo system can add a lot to an otherwise plain and generic action game. For any faults you can point out, Devil May Cry (the third one anyway, it's the only one I played) nailed this concept down masterfully. Everyone should go through that one to see just how deep an out-and-out fighting game can become."

Sure, no doubt about it, combo systems are under-represented in action RPGs and could enhance gameplay greatly. The question is, however, whether it could replace a hundreds-of-spells-type turn-based system in terms of tactical depth and sheer possibilities. I have my doubts.

That statement is really weird. Imagine you had a cheeseburger you didn't like...

I'm afraid you might be right about that, I wouldn't say it has been done to death though. There are actually very few games that get turn-based combat right. While I can enjoy real-time combat as well, turn-based combat has potential for much more strategic depth, obviously. Unfortunately, that potential is rarely ever realized.

Oh, as long as there's still games like NeverWinter Nights, Witcher and Drakensang, the genre can evolve all it wants ;-) It's just the quick reflexes you need for an FPS that I lack. Before I am even aware I am being shot at and from which direction the bullets come, my character has died.

From what I gather, they put that VATS thing for people like you, since apparently makes the combat way easier. I still didn't get a chance to play the game though, so don't take my word for it.

VATS is impossible to ignore in F3, because at starting levels your character is a blind mole rat and can shoot straight at all.

In general F3 is harder than Oblivion, because foes no longer scaled to your level all the time and it's super easy to find yourself in a place you really shouldn't be at, yet. It's a bit like Gothic in that regard.

By the way, I never played Oblivion either. Should I? Come to think of it, I don't know the first thing about that one.

Oblivion times three? I've got to try the game out then, for I loved Oblivion.




You should try it. Some people find the game boring after a while but it managed to keep me interested for a long while.

By the way, I never played Oblivion either. Should I?

I love Oblivion, but I'm not sure about you, Doc. I know you don't like RPGs and typical medieval settings. Then again, the combat there is kinda fun, and the physics system is just too cool, so you might want to check it out just for that.

Considering you're tastes in games (and considering I don't think I've ever heard you talk about RPGs, I think). No, don't play Oblivion. You'd probably get bored, if RPGs (spesifically 1st persons) aren't your thing. Hell, I know many RPG players that are bored with Oblivion. Too many RPG hybrids these days.

Actually, I like the whole stats system and whatnot. The only problem I have with most RPGs is how "strategic" they become when it comes to combat. I like my fights to be fast and furious, and turn-based combat (not to mention random encounters) just kills the mood for me. But like I said a few times before, Bloodlines is a game that really hits close to what I'd consider the best game evar =D

Then again, I don't know how much of a "serious" RPG Bloodlines is considered to be by those on the know.

Actually, I like the whole stats system and whatnot. The only problem I have with most RPGs is how "strategic" they become when it comes to combat. I like my fights to be fast and furious

Oh... then there are chances you will like Oblivion. It has stats and all, but the combat is pure action. Like in Bloodlines, but kinda more fun.

Then again, I don't know how much of a "serious" RPG Bloodlines is considered to be by those on the know.

It's serious for those who are into character development, dialogue, story branches and alike; it's probably not so serious for people who value open-endedness above all.

Bear in mind that Bloodlines and Oblivion belong to two totally different traditions of RPG; the first is story-driven, dialogue-driven one, which comes from Ultima VII; the second is open-ended, free-roaming one, which comes from Ultima VII (As DI said in his article, U7 is God's favorite game).

Well, Bloodlines is the next closest thing to action (game mechanics) utopia as far as RPGs go. The only RPG game better that Bloodlines in that sense to me is Fable: The Lost Chapters. Similar to like Oleg said, Oblivion is a game for gamers that prefer focusing on character development more than anything else.

Thus, the main difference between the two games is: In Oblivion your "excitement/anticipation" focuses on leveling up or increasing skill levels. In games like Bloodlines, the anticipation factor is combat.

We're not talking about it because... we're busy playing LittleBigPlanet?

We have a PS3?

Ehh, I'm just passing along the buzz from the video game crew at answers.yahoo.com 8)

(The other popular topics there include Fable 2, Neopets, My Sims, RuneScape, Nintendogs, Club Penguin and of course WOW.)

I've just finished a session with Fallout 3 (damn, it's almost 3 in the morning... good thing I don't teach tomorrow). Just stepped out into the wasteland, leaving Vault 101 and the Overseer's cold corpse behind me...

So far, it's just beyond awesome, has the same magical, sensual appeal as Oblivion, but with dialogues that are actually worth reading... plays smoothly as a shooter and yet it is a RPG... I'm simply drooling all over it.

But of course, it's too early to judge yet.

I've moved out the Vault 101 without any shot. Baton made my way out. :-)

What FPS should allow such an easy combat action? (in F.E.A.R., for example, my protagonist was killed very often even on middle difficulty level) It allows to state that in this game modern popular FPS genre was successfully integrated in RPG genre to make a marvelous balanced blend, and it does not focus greatly on certain part to do not put another part in a shadow. It may be shown, for example, by the fact that attempt of my female character to add Amata to the persons 'killed by you' was prevented by game itself and was unsuccessful. As I understand, she will be a key character in the story later.

Karma is still present in this game. Each bad action (such as stealing, lock-picking, computer cracking, etc.) will lower your karma, and each good action (such as relation to Mutant as to normal post-nuclear person) will raise it. With your skills you also may achieve goals in different ways (for example, to get info on your father from Moriarty, you may talk to local persons and crack his computer, and/or go to nearest ranch and persuade and/or beat a poor prostitute to get Moriarty's money back to give/keep them). Deviation in such actions as well as in selection of the way mission may be performed (such as to blow up Nuclear Bomb or to disarm it) will construct your characters relation and create his/her own role in non-linear role-playing game. Trading, non-linear conversations adaptive to your skills, computer cracking, stealing, medical actions, repairing and constructing mechanical items, lock-picking, skills assigning and managing it by points, and much more actions are available in the game in addition to development of the karma. Certainly, it is RPG.

What is missed in Fallout 3 as in RPG and as in successor to Fallout series? I guess, absolutely nothing.

It keeps getting better and better, Oleg. It's just unbelievable. I have clocked over 25 hours already and it continues to amuse and excite me. Actually, the first five hours were the worst. ;-)

Sure, the flaws (dialog, humor, animation) are there and they are plain to see, but once you accept them- the game provides tons of entertainment and original content practically non-stop. It's much better than I expected. I'm pleased. It's not the best Fallout game, that's for sure. But it is definitely the best game that Bethesda ever done.

As for what Fallout 3 lacks as a Fallout game. Many things were simplified and not only because of the new viewpoint. I don't see the point of crippled limbs, if you can easily cure them with Stimpacks. Next, it's sad that traits (merged with perks) no longer entail any penalties with them. Radiation is a joke, there is nothing to fear. So, yes, system was heavily simplified for the reasons unclear.

But if truth be told, that part of Fallout system which survived the transition is much bigger than I initially expected.

And, no, I don't believe it is possible to complete without using you own personal reflexes.

Er...just needs a heads up, since I asked a buddy of mine to get the game for me.

How buggy is it? Anyone play it without patching it (if any patches exist)?

You know my mileage - 25 hours.

I stuck in the scenery two times, without no other way but to reload the game. I couldn't complete one optional part of a bigger quest because the dialog option just didn't show up. And I experienced two crashes. However, I use Alt-TAB extensively, which game warns against.

And, of course, I don't consider NPC's erratic responses, or lack of them, AI behaviour to be bugs. Think Oblivion and you'll get the picture.

So, it's ok, I guess. You did like Oblivion, after all.

You seems to be lucky with F3 stability. Sudden hanging every some hours or even less drives me wild.

I didn't play it yet, but according to almost each and everyone currently posting in the Bethesda forums, it's extremely buggy. Several people report that they encountered several freezes just within the first hour of gameplay. I'll play it some time this week, and am already expecting the worst... at least I won't be disappointed that way.

If the reports hold true, this game might kill you.

Not a single one here. Maybe, it's a Vista thing.

How buggy is it? Anyone play it without patching it (if any patches exist)?

I haven't patched it. So far, no bugs, no crashes, and it runs incredibly fast, with highest settings. Load times are so short I didn't even notice them. Might be my super-powerful machine, sure, but Gothic 3 did take its time to load on it...

I was pretty disappointed with Fallout 3. Now, a bit of a primer: Fallout stands alongside Baldur's Gate as one of my first, proper ventures into computer role-playing games, but I'm not nostalgic enough to overlook any flaws these games had. By contrast, the Elder Scrolls series held very little interest for me in the post-Daggerfall era.

Finding myself with a dead gaming PC and suffering the indignities of a Vista laptop that can only seem to run games properly up to the idTech 3 level, I can't play Fallout 3. However, I had a taste thanks to an acquaintance of mine. And this leads me back to my starting point - disappointment.

I can deal with VATS - nothing more than a stylish name for a pause function - and the realtime combat - even if it horribly breaks the distinction between character and player, as anyone with fast enough reflexes can overcome poor skills by twitching fast enough, which means a Super Mutant is as strong as newborn kitten. But am I the only one to find there's just a bit too much lovin' for the game considering the abysmal writing, ocasional fourth wall breaking and simplistic use of skill cheks in dialogue?

I think people are coming to the game with a strange mindset. They like it because it's better than Oblivion in significant areas (which is weird because it should be held up against past Fallout titles, not past Elder Scrolls titles), and because it replicates Fallout's sense of post-apocalyptic visuals and diverse role-playing (but on a surface level).

Again, I admit to having played little - right up to and including Megaton - but it all seems... I don't know. Terribly lifeless? I'm warned against messing with the nuclear device by cultists, yet I can disarm it without anyone bothering me. We're told child killing is out becase its not morally justified; yet it's allowed as long as it is implied (such as detonating Megaton's bomb) and when other types of violence are so ridiculously overplayed (repetive angles and shots of head bursting in slow mo). People seem to believe it's "immersive" because they can just go to a mountaintop and look at the scenery. Large, boring caves filled with cannon fodder are downplayed because there's loot or the ocasional artifact with background information on the gameworld.

Am I being too cynical here, or are people really forgetting that Fallout 3, on a gameplay level, isn't better than titles that came out 10 years ago? How long until Bethesda gets credited with introducing play mechanics - dialogue checks, for instance - that have been around for ages?

My experience in the game is growing further and further. My first opinion was somewhere near such quote, but I've trusted the developers of this RPG and was not fooled.

I've recently finished (while have only 3rd level) the massacre in the Mart. It was so difficult to aim the raiders with any of the weapons in real-time and kill them without losing my health rapidly and to be killed finally that I've thrown such approach away and turned my brains on. And the things became much better. Using RPG approach with VATS you may not only pause the game, but to run away to some place, wait in ducking pose for your foe behind some obstacle and to set with VATS the combination of actions (based on your Action points) made consequently to finish with you foe in a single seance of such combination instead of stochastic running/aiming/shooting in "so called" FPS mode, when most of you shots are useless. With VATS it was made fast without any loss of health.

Also I've pressed 'F' key occasionally, and my view was changed from first-person to more 3rd person less isometric view, which was used in previous Fallout games. Such approach helps me to see the foes and their disposition, which I can't see in first-person view. It allowed me to think that 3rd person view was not absolutely realistic in most tactic schemes, because you'll see the foe and things you are not allowed to see only if you have certain paranormal sense. But it helps in combats.

Also different weapons hit the foes with different number of shots and their power, also the weapon capability is strongly dependent on its state (how much it is damaged). Skills in weapons and their use is also very important.

Also the help of mechanized Protector activated via Medical Computer and Office fellow card was very appreciated. I've killed supporting group of raiders very fast.

Pure FPS and Action/Adventures does not allow to perform such Massacres in such many different ways, which seems impossible from the first sight. Thanks to Bethesda guys!!! I was very glad to uncover new possibilities of my character not developed enough to stand in front of such dangers.

@POMAH:

Of course, VATS works really well as a compliment to otherwise more traditional hectic realtime systems without lesser or no degree of supervision. It's fine for what it is and yes, can help in tricky combat situations (like against the group of Raiders in Moira's quest). Thing is, what I'm getting from the combat system is - in VATS, the character's skills play more of a role, but without it, they are ofsett by my reflexes. My character at the time had somewhere between 10 to 15 skill points in Melee and I've taken down one Super Mutant with a baseball bat without using VATS by just vulching around him and hitting it.

At a glance, it seems the system is "tailored" for those who are accostumed to turn-based (providing a more hands off approach, although both systems are quite the opposite from each other mechanically) and those who can forget VATS and jump right into their twitching tactics. Which is fine in a way, I guess. But balance really seems to come down to playing it like an ordinary shooter if one can't (or won't) work with VATS.

I'd really like to play more of this to make further considerations, and I can't :(

@Diogo,

My friend, who was a true fan of Fallout series and whom I've talked about in my very first post of this forum, called me today, and said the thing I did not expect to hear from him. He has already finished Fallout 3. I can't believe him, because only three days passed since he started to play, but it was a true. He didn't follow the path of main plot for a long time making an exploration and performing side quests. And suddenly, he decided to follow the main plot. It and game itself were finished as unexpectedly as he never predict. He is still shocked. He can't make any further considerations also. :-(

But I'll try to continue the game play and to find the things covered within it to light them in the future, however. :-)

Just finished the main quest. The game's over. Sure there is a lot unexplored locations left and I will surely come back to explore them, so the game's not exactly over yet. But I've visited all the towns and completed all "big" quests (smaller stuff like "fetch me some scrap metal" or "fix the pipes in my town" isn't considered a quest here) and explored 75% of the wasteland.

So, the verdict is... pretty good, actually. I'll save the details for the review.

Just finished the main quest... and explored 75% of the wasteland

So much free time... *sigh*...

Well, I had to cancel a couple of arrangements, missed a class I should be teaching and ignored every drinking proposition from my friends for five days in the row.

Так что оно мне еще аукнется. ;-)

Так что оно мне еще аукнется. ;-)

LOL :)

Well, I'm not cancelling anything, I just don't have enough free hours in a row... I can't concentrate on a game when I know I only have one hour or such. I'm actually only able to play at night, which is not good because the next day I feel terribly sleepy.

You have a wife and you waste free time playing games? Sometimes I don't know about you, mate. :)

You have a wife and you waste free time playing games? Sometimes I don't know about you, mate. :)

She goes to sleep early, while I usually don't get sleepy until 3am or so. Ergo, I get some free time which I couldn't really spend with my wife. So what do I do? Play a game :)

Same here, with the added difficulty level of having a 7-year old that spends the day playing Viva Piñata, so I'm exiled to way late in the night =P

I just installed Fallout 3 because I'm really pumped about that one, and then I realized I still need to finish S.T.A.L.K.E.R. and Bloodlines (with two characters), and something tells me those two are still far from over.

OH DEAR GOD, WHERE WERE ALL THESE GAMES WHEN I WAS 16 AND I WAS LONELIER THAN A "1"???! D=

It seems that I am a little late to the party. Just the same I would like to throw in my 2 cents anyhow.

I got this game at midnight at my local game store, as I had a day off from work finally. As soon as I got home I started playing. I played for several hours and I am still not that far into it. But I am loving it so far.

I was dubious about the VATS system but having used it I think it's pretty damn cool. And I really dig exploring the wastes and seeing what kind of shit I can get into. And the quests side and otherwise are quite varied. And there are tons of cool other little touches as well like the radio programs.

And the game also retains the classic black humour of the previous installments.

Any how I realise that all the "professional" reviewers having been raving about this game, but I am far more interested in what my Moby Game constituents thinks of they game, And I am lookinh forward to reading more reviews as they come in. I have also been playing Fable II, but that is neither here nor there.

"I can talk any one into anything. Except for women into sex."-Larry David-

So, I finally started playing this. Haven't gotten too far, but I like what I see for now. Now, I need to point out one thing: I went and told the sheriff that the guy in the suit was planning on blow up Megaton, and he ran to the bar to hand out a bit of Megaton Justice TM. Sure enough, the moment the sheriff let his guard down, the man in the suit produced a big-ass gun and killed him.

Now, after I dealt with the cunning bastard, everything went back to normal in the bar, and everyone just walks up and down stepping on both corpses when they pass through like they don't even notice. It's not just that noone says peep about the sheriff being dead --they don't even pay attention to the fact there are two corpses rotting right there under their noses!!

Even the sheriff's son showed up and he seemed pretty aloof about his dad laying on the floor in his undies (oh, forgot to mention I stole his clothes, they're too cool to be worn by a corpse =P )

Now, is this really supposed to be this way or have I encountered one of the game's infamous bugs? I mean, the situation was so retarded it killed the entire game's atmosphere for me. I'm definitely going to play some more tonight, but from now on I won't be able to help being on the lookout for similar stupidities =/

It's probably not a bug. The first time I played this quest, I had the exact same experience, and it really is an immersion breaker so early in the game. Unfortunately, all "open world" RPGs have situations like this one. In the Fallout universe it's even a bit more acceptable, since everyone is supposed to be an emotionless ruffian who just wants to survive somehow, but, yeah, that scene reminded me once again that the developers of all these "open world" games should finally start to improve their NPC behaviour routines, instead of just making the worlds bigger and the graphics prettier.

Yeah that same thing happened to me so i just reloaded the autosave and had my gun drawn and ready and the very second he reached for his silenced pistol. I turned on VATS and blew his head off. The Sheriff said thanks but the other people in the bar didnt seem to care.

I nearly didnt buy this game as i thought it was the same as Fallout 1 and 2 (Isometric RPGs) but after seeing the gameplay on youtube i ordered it and think its one of the best games ive bought this gen so far.

That happened all the time in Oblivion, though not with important characters.

I guess yes. It seems that we may open another Forum thread - "Fallout 3 Logical Bugs" and send a link to Bethesda's guys and girls to make a review of them and improve the add-ons. I've encountered several issues not only illogical in "real life" sense, but not very useful for player also. They include non-ability to optionally crack computer if you have found a proper password somewhere without cracking techniques, or optionally pick the lock if you have found a proper key in pocket of some enemy, etc. To temporarily avoid such logical bugs and to do not loose valuable experience points, I've suggest player to save before taking the keys or reading the notes, but who exactly knows where such key or word should be used (even if they will be often used within location they were found). But on other hand, should such "bugs" be eliminated? Didn't Fallout 1-2 include similar "bugs"?

I am now playing Fallout 3 v1.0.9.0
Level Difficulty used: Hardest

So far:
1. It works on my !#!#%$# PC!!! Yay! Minimum specs though. :(
2. Minimal bugs. Minor crashes occur when playing over 4 hours.
3. Currently character level 8. So far it feels like:
--> 70% Oblivion, 30% Fallout
--> 70% FPS, 30% RPG.
4. Major complaints:
--> Enemies too difficult to kill. Not quite sure why 4 head shots still doesn't kill a monster.
--> That's about it. Anything else is too minor to mention.

Final tentative verdict:
Addicted.

Don't you have your answer there?

Er...uh...in my defense, I was using a really really big gun. :p

I kind of figured the supermutants would have four heads each!

Care to elaborate? It's no wonder enemies are tough to kill if you play it as FPS without investing points in gun handling and combat-related perks, skills.

Combat is the most interesting feature of the game...even more addictive than Oblivion (but less addictive than Fallout 1 & 2). Maybe because most of the game play is centered in First Person and Shooting...vs. the classical approach of a turn-based RPG game. Real-time RPGs tend to feel less RPG to me...but I suppose that's just me.

I dunno...maybe its because most of the weapons are ranged...makes you have dejavu's from Doom or Duke Nukem.

I recently noticed that shooting limbs doesn't effect much. Shooting legs don't make them run slower much...shooting arms doesn't mean that tehy can't pick up the weapon...

I've created my female character with charisma=10, but improved the Light Guns during the gameplay. Now my character is somewhere around 14 level and 60% in guns.

I've killed Raiders by single head shot with Hunter Rifle since the very beginning (2nd or 3rd level, for example). Supermutant takes 2 head shots to be dead. Only Supermutant Masters take 4 shots. Even Chinese Gun doen't help me to kill them for a less number of head shots, but sometimes mines become helpful. I'm not improving the Laser Guns, or Hard Guns. Their Attack Points are much higher, and maybe the number of shots will be lesser with them. I guess, the answer lies in RPG genre and magic of numbers, but not in FPS and "real" situations.

At level 19. Now restarting new game. If this isn't hardcore, I don't know what is.

Now going to blow up Megaton. Yay!

Just finished it.

It's a good game, but for lengthy RPGs just being "good" simply isn't enough for me anymore. The best thing is definitely to behold the Fallout universe in impressive 3D graphics (exploring central D.C. for first time is just breath-taking),but aside from that, the game is just another standard standard sandbox RPG. VATS is cool at the beginning but, since aiming for anything other than the head doesn't make much sense, it wears out out pretty fast. The perk system is but a mere shadow of its former glory. The side quests aren't particularly interesting, either. The main quest had some really cool moments, though. (Tranquility Lane being the highlight for me) I just wish they had used more scripted events like the scene shortly after acquiring the GECK - it happened just when I was on the verge of loosing interest completely, why not more of those?

Now, I don't even expect an elaborate, satisfying ending from a WRPG anymore, but here it seems that they didn't even try. It's like they ran out of time and quickly assembled a half-baked slide show... i mean, the game is supposed to give you the feeling that your actions made a difference for the wasteland and then this?!

The biggest gripe I have with it though, is the ridiculously low level limit. I played the game for 90 hours, 40 of which being on max level. In a game where exploration and character building is the main motivation, this is a huge flaw. As soon as you hit 20, character building is completely restricted to books and bobble heads. From then on, side quests were the only thing that kept me going, and since they weren't really good, the game began to crumble... I even prefer Oblivion's stupid leveling system to this, at least it gave you some sense of accomplishment.

I encountered a huge show stopping bug; I actually managed to get my hands on the GECK *before* rescuing daddy (I pretty much stumbled upon it), which screwed up the main quest completely - had to replay like 10 hours. Other than that, I was positively surprised on the bug front. Pretty solid for a game of that magnitude (well, I guess after Gothic 3 nothing can shock me anyway ;-)

Still, it's a very well-made game. If they fix the level and perk system and learn to write some descent dialogue and original quests, Fallout 4 could be awesome. Actually, while playing Fallout 3, I was thinking how cool it would be to let it take place in China, you know, ridiculing 50s communist dogma, seeing the Forbidden City in shambles, Mao's picture lying in the dust etc... By the way, anyone knows whether China was also completely wiped out during the war? (It's been a while since I played the prequels)