overrated? (Final Fantasy VII)

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Andy Social (16) on 3/8/2008 8:59 AM · Permalink · Report

i didnt want to write a "scathing" review because i haven't completed the game yet but i really think that this is one of the most overrated games ever made. your thoughts?

DreinIX (10446) on 3/8/2008 10:33 AM · Permalink · Report

Overrated by whom? By FF fans? By video gamers in general? Or maybe by professional reviewers? Since it's FF7 we're talking about consider that for every 10 fans there are 10 people that hate it. If you mean professional criticism keep in mind that these are the same people who overrated Oblivion so there's no really point to talk about it. Just do me a favor. If you play the game to the end, play it because you want to play not just because you want to have an opinion over it or write a review. It's hard to like a game you're forcing yourself to play. Oh, and the place where this game shines is the plot and the characters (personally I liked the battles too). If you can't find anything there it's most likely that you won't like the game.

The Fabulous King (1332) on 3/12/2008 12:52 AM · Permalink · Report

[Q --start DreinIX wrote--] Just do me a favor. If you play the game to the end, play it because you want to play not just because you want to have an opinion over it or write a review. [/Q --end DreinIX wrote--]

I salute your wisdom.

DreinIX (10446) on 3/14/2008 12:31 AM · Permalink · Report

See? There's a person who didn't want to play it but actually did and we can all see the results. He has the joy of a psycho after killing everything that can be killed and for no actual reason. If you don't want to end up like Drunken Irishman do what I told you.

The Fabulous King (1332) on 3/18/2008 6:36 PM · Permalink · Report

[Q --start DreinIX wrote--]See? There's a person who didn't want to play it but actually did and we can all see the results. He has the joy of a psycho after killing everything that can be killed and for no actual reason. If you don't want to end up like Drunken Irishman do what I told you. [/Q --end DreinIX wrote--]

On the contrary, I wanted to play FF7. I always did want to try out them jrpg's and when Oleg introduced me to the world of illegal rom's I went nuts and obtained as many jrpg's as I could. FF7 was always on my must-play list because it directly influenced two of my most favorite games ever - Anachronox and Planescape Torment (even Torment's manual states it, in case if there are any elitist unbelievers reading this), so in a way I was too hyped up about the game. I expected a game that would exceed Anachronox and Torment and instead I got a a weird-looking and strangely translated game with too much combat and a lot of other problems. But aside from certain moments of frustration and general "wtf!" moments, I don't regret playing FF7. There are scenes in that game that I'll always remember (basically the entire disc 2 kicked ass). And I think that any serious gamer should play FF7 because doing otherwise would be like being a movie critic without ever seeing Star Wars. Of course, why would anyone want to be a serious gamer is beyond me.

Unicorn Lynx (181780) on 3/18/2008 6:46 PM · Permalink · Report

FF7 was always on my must-play list because it directly influenced two of my most favorite games ever - Anachronox and Planescape Torment (even Torment's manual states it, in case if there are any elitist unbelievers reading this)

A very correct observation. It is generally overlooked that during the late 90-ies Japanese RPGs have actually influenced Western RPGs, and much of this influence is derived from FF7 (partly because it was one of the only Japanese RPGs available on PC). The influence still continues today, although a reversed influence is also noticeable. That's how we have KOTOR 2 and FFXII, which are in many ways more similar to each other than to their respective legacy.

Zovni (10504) on 3/20/2008 1:16 AM · Permalink · Report

Yeah well, everything was influenced by FF7 on pretty much any level, just as every major blockbuster of every medium influences everything that comes after it regardless of its quality. As for the game itself I like my nostalgia the way it is, and I know that if I take FF7 out of that pre-1997, pre-mainstream CRPG moment, It will show me a game that is a shambling mess and only marginally holds up. It is a "good" game, but its was clearly more of a case of "right time, right place" than actual quality.

Unicorn Lynx (181780) on 3/20/2008 7:35 AM · Permalink · Report

It is a "good" game, but its was clearly more of a case of "right time, right place" than actual quality.

I guess it is in this sense that it can be considered overrated: its influence and popularity are disproportional to its actual value.

If it weren't so influential, it wouldn't have made people have too high expectations (especially now, 10 years after its release) and criticize it for being "not as overwhelmingly super-amazing as the 90873456 million fanboys all over the globe claim it to be". Which in its turn makes the game somewhat "underrated" by those "critics".

But ever since I've had my lesson with Half-Life 2, I've stopped looking at popularity and influence of games, because they don't matter. What matters is the fun and the impact a game can have on you, not what it was supposed to be before it got released, or has become afterwards.

Unicorn Lynx (181780) on 3/8/2008 12:29 PM · Permalink · Report

My thought is that you should judge a game by what it is, what it does to you, how much you enjoy playing it, and not by what other people say about it. If I judged every game by the hype it had received, I wouldn't be able to enjoy half of the games I have.

So the question is not "is the game overrated?", but rather "do I like the game?".

All that said, my personal opinion is that FF7 is a wonderful game. Hope you'll be able to enjoy it, ignoring all those fanboys who say it's the first great RPG in existence, or that Sephiroth makes them come, or such bullshit.

mobiusclimber (235) on 3/11/2008 5:54 AM · Permalink · Report

There's a reason this game is thought of as "overrated" now. Back when this game came out the visuals were stunning and most people weren't used to epic adventures like this. I think a lot of it comes down to people going into the game with certain expectations. It's not overrated at all, it's just that if you think it's going to blow everything else away, you'll be disappointed. Some of this is of course unavoidable. You've probably had parts of the plot spoiled for you. Maybe you aren't used to badly translated JRPGs. Possibly the huge leaps in graphics that were made after this game has caused it look less than stellar (compare it to Final Fantasy 9 for instance). All of this is going to make the game look a lot worse than it really is. Add to that the fact that it does have it's own problems irregardless of the time period in which it was released. The storyline doesn't have as much depth or make as much sense if you miss some completely optional and in some cases out of the way side events (specifically Vincent/Lucretia's). The story is also a bit of a mess with plot being jerked around until it seems as though some parts are largely forgotten later on and wheren't properly expanded upon. Part of it is that in order to fully enjoy the game, you have to use your imagination a bit. Why doesn't Barrett like Cloud, for instance, is a subject that is NEVER fully explored, but it doesn't take a genius to figure it out. The game is like that. You have to fill in a LOT of blanks, but you come to appreciate that approach. (I did anyway.)

It is an interesting story, has one of the better fleshed-out villians (with a real reason for being the way he is and having real motivation), features a very innovative magic system (that rewards strategy and thinking), and basically has a million different things to do (chocobo raising/racing alone puts this game over the top for me).

So the answer to your question is yes and no.

MasterMegid (723) on 3/11/2008 8:43 PM · Permalink · Report

I personally did not care for the game. And I played to the end. It took me over 70 hours! But Mobius, DreinIX, and Oleg, hit the nail on the head. I think. It is all according to the person.

That is one of the reasons I like Moby, people are free to express themselves without being flamed, like on so many other sites.

I don't always see eye to eye with others here, but I do respect others opinions, as I hope they would for mine, even if they disgree.

So to some up, you really ought to play it for yourself.

"Reality is that which, when you stop beliving in it, it does not go away."-Philip K. Dick-

Indra was here (20756) on 3/19/2008 8:29 PM · Permalink · Report

[Q --start MasterMegid wrote--] That is one of the reasons I like Moby, people are free to express themselves without being flamed, like on so many other sites. [/Q --end MasterMegid wrote--]

Hey, did something happen in the MG forums lately I'm not aware of...? :) :) :)

Indra was here (20756) on 3/19/2008 8:28 PM · Permalink · Report

[Q --start JazzOleg wrote--] or that Sephiroth makes them come... [/Q --end JazzOleg wrote--]

Way too much information, dude.... :p

Kit Simmons (249) on 3/20/2008 2:17 PM · Permalink · Report

Since I don't own any PlayStations, PC FFVII fetches criminal prices at eBay and doesn't even run under Windows XP anymore, I can only base my experiences with the game on the PC demos that were around when they first published it. Back then the whole concept of Japanese console RPGs was novel to me, the way they controlled, told their stories, the characters they included, how linear they were - keep in mind that apart from Mystic Quest no real Square RPGs were ever released for the Super Nintendo in Germany.

Having played several FF titles in the meantime, though, I agree that the huge hype built around them isn't always justified. I thought FFX was dreadfully slow and boring. The FF games simply don't suck me in like other games do. Chrono Trigger did suck me in so it's not just because they're linear console RPGs, but the best FF title I have played to date is FFVI - and I haven't finished it because I lost interest about halfway through.

Sephiroth? Meh, he is overrated. So what if he offed some doe-eyed anime flower girl? I didn't even have the patience to try and beat him in Kingdom Hearts.

Unicorn Lynx (181780) on 3/20/2008 3:58 PM · Permalink · Report

Sephiroth? Meh, he is overrated. So what if he offed some doe-eyed anime flower girl?

You cruel, heartless man ;)

But seriously, the reason for Sephiroth's immense popularity is his rather unusual (for the time) connection to the "positive" heroes of the game.

Most RPGs before FF7 featured abstract villains who were evil just because they were evil. Even characters like Blackthorn from Ultima V or Batlin from Ultima VII had little personal background.

Look at such emotional games as FF4 and FF6 - what kind of villains do they have? The villain of FF4 is basically a Darth Vader without much background. The villain of FF6 is plain silly, even though the positive characters are charming.

It's impossible to feel "connected" to Sephiroth unless you play the game yourself. Of course it is idiotic (and harmful to the game) that he became a stupid cult figure, but what can we do. Bottom line is, even though he is overrated, he is still a significant character and one of the better villains around.

Zovni (10504) on 3/20/2008 4:14 PM · Permalink · Report

Kefka destroyed the frigging world and ruled over its remains just because he hated stuff and shit. Sephiroth wanted a hug from his mommy :S.

Seriously, on retrospect he has been more harmful to the rpg world than any other villain. After all he started the whole trend of albino sissy boys with mommy issues taking over as main villains. And quite frankly the reason he is so memorable is that he looks so freakin kewl for the anime crowd. But nobody takes him seriously, kinda like Gackt.

Unicorn Lynx (181780) on 3/20/2008 4:41 PM · Permalink · Report

Seriously, on retrospect he has been more harmful to the rpg world than any other villain. After all he started the whole trend of albino sissy boys with mommy issues taking over as main villains... And quite frankly the reason he is so memorable is that he looks so freakin kewl for the anime crowd

Again, I think the problem here is inadequate influence than the original appearance itself. The soft appearance distinguished Sephiroth from the traditional evil-looking, monster-like villains of the past. Of course, after that this kind of appearance was cloned to death and applied to villains without any psychological reason.

But I agree that his influence on Japanese RPGs was quite negative. As, unfortunately, the influence of FF7 in general.

Kit Simmons (249) on 3/20/2008 11:24 PM · Permalink · Report

[Q --start JazzOleg wrote--]Sephiroth? Meh, he is overrated. So what if he offed some doe-eyed anime flower girl?

You cruel, heartless man ;) [/Q --end JazzOleg wrote--]

Yup. Never gonna shed no tear over some chick who wears brown boots to a pink dress and gels her hair Cameron Diaz-style, I ain't. I thought the ending of LoK: Defiance had a better sacrifice scene. Less pathos, same impact.

mobiusclimber (235) on 3/20/2008 11:35 PM · Permalink · Report

My sacrifice scene from FF7 was never Aerith, it was always Cait Sith. I found it way more touching, maybe b/c there was some dialogue to go with it. Plus, the fact that it was almost meant to be funny at the same time, and just the bit about how there's going to be another Cait Sith but to not forget THAT ONE... yeah. I know. Silly, but it's true. I found it more poignant.

DreinIX (10446) on 3/21/2008 5:09 AM · Permalink · Report

[Q --start JazzOleg wrote--]Most RPGs before FF7 featured abstract villains who were evil just because they were evil. Even characters like Blackthorn from Ultima V or Batlin from Ultima VII had little personal background.

So here comes FF7 with a villain you could actually care for. You learn about him during the game; basically, the whole plot is built like a huge chase during which you uncover his (and your own) past. [/Q --end JazzOleg wrote--] What JazzOleg said...although I'll disagree in the Kefka part. The guy was a lunatic so he didn't really need reasons for what he did.

Kit Simmons (249) on 3/21/2008 9:27 AM · Permalink · Report

Oh dear, Kefka. Difficult matter. What I definitely like about him is that he defies console RPG convention by REALLY being the main bad guy from beginning until the very end, not some ruthless stooge for an even greater but far more abstract power. On the other hand, just being loony doesn't automatically make him a better villain than others. To me he was that annoying, whooping little guy who went around causing all that trouble, and unfortunately at the very end he goes and does just about what every other console RPG villain does, namely turn into a philosophically inclined angelic über-being requiring a group of youngsters bombarding him with screen-filling effects. (I know I said earlier I haven't finished the game yet but who doesn't know that? (I love VGMuseum.))

Unicorn Lynx (181780) on 3/21/2008 3:49 PM · Permalink · Report

Unfortunately at the very end he goes and does just about what every other console RPG villain does, namely turn into a philosophically inclined angelic über-being requiring a group of youngsters bombarding him with screen-filling effects.

But most of those villains appeared after Kefka. Before FF6, the ultimate villains of Eastern RPGs were all abstract evil beings who didn't bother to explain to you their actions. Pisaro from Dragon Quest IV is somewhat of an exception; but even he doesn't talk to you, you learn about his motives from others.

Previous FFs? Nobody with real motives. Phantasy Star? Dark Force, the most abstract and uninteresting villain ever. Tengai Makyou? After all the jokes they did, just standard evil gods without reasons for being evil.

Shin Megami Tensei doesn't count because it didn't have real villains. There were gods playing their chess game and the heroes caught between them.

The only pre-FF6 Eastern RPG I can think of that has a fully developed villain is Xuanyuan Jian 2 Waizhuan: Feng zhi Wu. The Chinese beat the Japanese at their own game.

Andrew Fisher (697) on 4/4/2023 10:26 AM · Permalink · Report

I didn't much like the story and script, I felt maybe it was badly translated from Japanese and I still think a lot of 2D graphics is better than 3D polygons at least back then. I'd just completed Phantasy Star IV and had converted to RPGing, prematurely it turned out, nothing has really come close PStar IV so far, but when I saw a TV ad for FF VII, it seemed like PStar IV with even more breadth and depth, so I was really interested in playing it and did a few years later. It took about a year and half to complete, I got stuck somewhere and gave it up then started over and finally finished it, never to play again.