Forums > News > Ninten-do and Ninten-don't
Ronald Diemicke (1181) on 5/3/2006 2:01 PM · Permalink · Report
Many interesting chats come up about gaming when that’s what you eat, live, breath and sleep. It’s much more fashionable to think about games (especially with E3 on the horizon) then worry about finals. While Sony may be getting ready to bring the pain with the ps3 in terms of power in their hardware, Nintendo’s innovative control system is still a topic of frequent debate among the citizens of my campus.
In theory, the Wii’s controller acts as an extension of your hand into the game world. This makes for many interesting game play scenarios in different games. The topic of Red Steel came up as that’s truly the only formally announced title came up and everyone began to talk about how great the idea of aiming with your hand was.
This prompted me to stop and think about this. If the main body of the controller is your hand… and the nunchuku is your ability to strafe and move forward and backward, then how do you turn? If you aiming control doubles as your look control, your control might be awkward.
But if the nunchuku is turning and moving forward and backward, then pc gamers will balk at the lack of strafing ability…
Striking the right balance of control is going to be clutch for Nintendo even more so then just about any other aspect of their games on the wii because (and this even true on current gen systems and other next gen systems) bad controls kills good games. And on the wii, with even more power to give a greater level of control and more creativity is the bigger chance at people putting out games that have terrible control and therefore aren’t any fun to play.
Hopefully this E3 will clear up some of these questions (especially the Red Steel control questions), but Nintendo is going to have to do an awful lot to sell people on this controller (IE figure out a way to get people to actually try it) to really have a shot at coming out of this system war ahead, but if they pull it off, it’ll be in a big way.
Mobygamesisreanimated (11069) on 5/3/2006 3:21 PM · Permalink · Report
So what's the news here? Figuring out the controls for Wii games might be difficult? We already knew that...
nullnullnull (1463) on 5/3/2006 3:47 PM · Permalink · Report
True enough. Has anyone played Metroid Prime:Hunters? The sytlus is used as the pointing device for shooting. How is straffing handled? There is also with the mouse the pick up move to turn all the way around.
Ronald Diemicke (1181) on 5/3/2006 5:33 PM · Permalink · Report
I guess my point was that this situation with Nintendo is a bit more complicated then 'Look, you move the controller and it does things on the screen!'.
Each of the three major players is going to have to do a lot to make this a good e3 for them.
Sony needs a reasonable price point, good 3rd party support, better looking and playing games then Microsoft, a plan for their online service, and refinements to the controller.
Microsoft really just needs to keep getting good games out there and have them be fun to play and good looking without Sony and Nintendo stealing their thunder and developers. More exclusives would also help.
Nintendo's in a more tenuous position though. Now with this rumor that the nunchuku will also have the same position sensor control ability as the main controller, that adds even more complexity to the control scheme. It’s more important for Nintendo to have control that feels solid then ever before and that developers take advantage of it. I don't think the importance that this holds for them can be underestimated. Even if they pull together 3rd party support, online content, and a multitude of other things, if the controller sucks or developers don't utilize it well - this could be a disaster for them...
Now that E3's even closer, you'd think someone would be saying more about how the control works/feels... I'm also somewhat worried that no one else has pulled the trigger early on Wii titles... It dosen't feel right (pardon the pun).
Purple Haze on 5/4/2006 6:41 AM · Permalink · Report
I reckon that if they do it well they could make some really amazing games, but i guess thats sorta what your saying.
Matt Neuteboom (976) on 5/4/2006 5:20 PM · Permalink · Report
Nintendo has never let me down before... I'm sure they had this problem figured out long before they even announced ther controller. Its not like they just went, "Hey, let's do this" without thinking of the mechanics or the problems they would encounter.
Nintendo knows what they're doing. If you don't think so, don't buy it.
Ronald Diemicke (1181) on 5/5/2006 2:49 PM · Permalink · Report
Heh... Fair enough. But the virtual boy and gamecube have caused me to be a more skeptical person.
Matt Neuteboom (976) on 5/5/2006 9:09 PM · Permalink · Report
Virtual Boy....meh, it was a try I guess.
Also the GC is a huge success in my opinon. SSBM, RE4, Timesplitters: Furtue Perfect, MGS: Twin Snakes, Etenral Darkness, and many many others. They may have been the underdog since they never got the chance to shed their kiddy image, but it is definitely not a mistake.
Plus look at the NES, SNES, and N64, all huge successes. N64 was probably the most successful game system of all time, specially with all those clasic games. Good ol' Goldeneye and Banjo-kazooie.
Игги Друге (46653) on 5/9/2006 12:11 AM · Permalink · Report
The N64 was not successful compared with the Playstation. Or the NES. Or the SNES. Or the 2600. It was successful in comparison with the Jaguar or the 3DO.
Matt Neuteboom (976) on 5/9/2006 7:16 PM · edited · Permalink · Report
Perhaps you should recheck, the N64 may not have been successful with sales, but it has some of the biggest classics in gaming.
-Goldeneye 007
-Super Mario 64
-Banjo-kazooie
-Super Smash Bros.
-Starfox 64
-Conker's Bad Fur Day
-Perfect Dark
-Paper Mario
-Ocarina of Time (considered in many circles to be the best game of all time)
-Majora's Mask
-Banjo-tooie
-Mario Kart 64
-Mario Party
-Worms Armageddon
-Vigilante 8
It may not have been successful with the sales, but I do think that the N64 had a lot more better games. Besides, the GC has been met with the some lack of success but the continue to churn out great games like SSBM. Success really isnt an indicator of which system is best, just a sign of which system sells the best.
Mobygamesisreanimated (11069) on 5/9/2006 7:36 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Matt Neuteboom wrote--]Success really isnt an indicator of which system is best, just a sign of which system sells the best. [/Q --end Matt Neuteboom wrote--]
And that's why you can't say that the N64 was a success. There were some great games for it, but as a whole, its library was lacking some important genres: RPGs, Strategy games, Beat'em Ups, Racing games. And I don't think I need to go into all the mistakes Nintendo made to pave the way for Sony (the late release, using cartridges instead of CDs, f*cking up with square...). Don't get me wrong, I like the N64, Zelda OoT is one of my favorite games of all time, but as you said yourself, success is about sales and not about how much you like the games a system.
Matt Neuteboom (976) on 5/10/2006 9:44 PM · Permalink · Report
Yea, I suppose its all a matter of opinion really. Still, my point was that all 4 of Nintendos systems were good, despite their alcki of success, theres really no reason for me to doubt that the Wii will do bad.
HEH, you thought it woldnt happen. But it just did. At E3 Sony just announced that the PS3 controller will have motion sensing on the tip. Isnt that lovely. Everyone doubts that the Wii controller will flop now Sony is following along with it. Oh, the irony.
Kartanym (12418) on 5/12/2006 4:22 AM · edited · Permalink · Report
I consider Sony as the copycat of the industry right now. Microsoft and Nintendo have done their best to try new and different things (granted, Microsoft have an eyetoy style camera in the works), and then Sony comes out and say 'look, we stuffed up the controller at first, but thanks to Nintendo we now have something cool. Oh, and let's not forget our online strategy'! geez!
Don't get me wrong, I'm not a fanboy. If I had the money, I'd buy all three next gen systems. As it is, I already have an X360, and a Wii is on the cards (what with a new Super Smash Bros. announced, and the virtual console system). A PS3 seems a little distant until at least they get the price points to a decent level.
Anyway, back to the point at hand. Nintendo's controller, from the video's I've seen, doesn't seem all that hard to get used to at all. It all depends on the game it's developed for, for example 1st person shooters will work a treat on the system. Nintendo have already made mention that not all games on the Wii will use the controller. Smash Bros being a perfect example. IGN has mentioned that they will also release a secondary controller, a cross between a SNES/PS2 pad by the looks of it, while GameCube controller ports will be on the Wii system.
So they seem to have things covered, still allowing publishers to port certain titles to all systems, so the Wii won't miss out on any big names (depending on any liceneses and 1st/2nd party development, etc.). The Wi-fi online element should also open some new boundaries, such as multiplayer Mario Kart (you know it's going to happen, what with the DS already accomplishing such a task).
I don't know ... I think Nintendo have a good chance to hit the mark. Let's not forget that the Gamecube, GBA and DS have made far more profits in Japan then in Europe/US. Hell, the Gamecube outsold the Xbox, while the DS is ahead of all systems. So you can bet Nintendo aren't going anywhere anytime soon.
And that, I'm happy about :p
Maw (832) on 5/20/2006 6:37 AM · Permalink · Report
[quote]Strategy games[/quote]
Who makes strategy games for consoles?
Personally I don't think Nintendo is even attempting to dominate the console market. Every chance they get they tell us that it's being aimed at casual gamers. Other than the controller, it's not much more than a souped-up Gamecube.
[quote]still allowing publishers to port certain titles to all systems, so the Wii won't miss out on any big names (depending on any liceneses and 1st/2nd party development, etc.).[/quote]
The Rev is exponentially outclassed system spec-wise by the Xbox360 and PS3 (yeah, I know it will be cheaper but that doesn't mean anything, just ask Sega), which means not many ports. How are you going to take a game made for a console with 512MB of RAM and squeeze it on to a console with 88?
Nintendo is getting most of its profits from handhelds, where it still dominates. It doesn't have very much tied up in the console market, so if the Rev bombs it's hardly going to kill the company. I am interested in seeing how the controller will work out...
yeap (547) on 5/21/2006 5:36 AM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Pathogen wrote--][quote]Strategy games[/quote] Other than the controller, it's not much more than a souped-up Gamecube. [/Q --end Pathogen wrote--]
Isn't the Xbox 360 also not much more than a souped-up Xbox? And the PS3 not much more than a souped-up PS2? At least Nintendo are trying something new and innovative, and they have a nice line-up of games with original gameplay, rather than relying on the same old games with better graphics.
Matt Neuteboom (976) on 5/22/2006 2:34 AM · Permalink · Report
I agree. Out of all the systems, the Wii is the LEAST like its predecesor. Both the 360 and the PS3 are XBox and PS2 with more power and better graphics. The Wii at least is imprving gameplay with the Wiimote. When I see the PS3 and 360, I don't really see anything "next-gen" except the graphics, power, and perhaps multimeda capabilites.
Maw (832) on 5/31/2006 10:26 PM · Permalink · Report
[quote]The Wii at least is imprving gameplay with the Wiimote.[/quote]
We'll have to wait until it comes out to judge how much of an "improvement" it is.
[quote]When I see the PS3 and 360, I don't really see anything "next-gen" except the graphics, power, and perhaps multimeda capabilites. [/quote]
Yeah, I think that's because Microsoft and Sony have so much invested they're playing it safe. Nintendo can afford to experiment with new stuff since, frankly, they don't seem to have that much invested on in the console market. The Wii is fairly underpowered but is going to be very cheap to produce, Nintendo won't lose much if it fails. They're getting most of their profits from handhelds anyway.
Unicorn Lynx (181775) on 6/1/2006 1:34 AM · Permalink · Report
It's really a matter of taste, Matt. Of all the games you have listed, there isn't even one I'm interested in. Not one. If you ask me, "Ocarina of Time" is the most overrated game in history. And I could write a much bigger list of great Playstation games. But that's not the point. The point is that we all have different opinions about games, systems, and alike, so it's impossible to determine which console had the best games.
Matt Neuteboom (976) on 6/3/2006 11:40 PM · Permalink · Report
True, it is really a matter of taste, and also, there are so many factors that must be taken into account, one cannot possibly judge which is the best. You have to take into account the library of games, controllers, price, graphical power, innovation, sound quality, and many more things.