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New look, new feel ... it must be a new release!!

nullnullnull (1491) on Aug 04, 2006


We added a whole new functionality called MobyRank. MobyRank is a statistically accurate metric of critical success for a game using a weighted average of normalized rankings from individual critics. Simply, people submit rankings from game critics and MobyGames grinds it up and comes up a score. You can read all about it here.

MobyGames has a whole new look. We moved around a lot of links so navigation and contributions are more obvious and made the whole site more visually appealing. Special thanks to Servo who help design the new look. On a side note we will primarily be focusing on MobyClassic. The MobyDark theme will stay around, but it will become less and less of priority. For you MobyDark users try out new! Classic and see what you think.

A lot of other stuff happened as well. You can check out the changelog here.

Re: New look, new feel ... it must be a new release!!

Belboz (6576) on Aug 04, 2006


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Great new look, guys! And thanks for the new toys! Let me know if you want the whole magazine reviews, not just the first sentence or paragraph.

Re: New look, new feel ... it must be a new release!!

nullnullnull (1491) on Aug 04, 2006


We do not want to plagiarize. The first paragraph is fine.

Re: New look, new feel ... it must be a new release!!

Kabushi (257705) on Aug 04, 2006


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Wouldn't it be better to use the last paragraph?

The first usually doesn't say anything about the game.

Re: New look, new feel ... it must be a new release!!

Shoddyan (14412) on Aug 05, 2006


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Kabushi Wrote:
Wouldn't it be better to use the last paragraph?

The first usually doesn't say anything about the game.



That's a good point in that the last section is labeled "The final word" or something similar. On the other hand, I also see the issue of lots of reviews being displayed where you have no context as to what they were talking about earlier.

Re: New look, new feel ... it must be a new release!!

Luis Silva (13595) on Aug 04, 2006


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Looking great. I guess I'll start adding stuff to MobyRank tomorrow.

Re: New look, new feel ... it must be a new release!!

Gonchi (3709) on Aug 04, 2006


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Maybe I just have a thing about change, but to be totally honest, I hate the new look and layout of the site, particularly when viewing games. Anyway to switch back to the previous style?

(Edited by Gonchi (3709), Aug 04, 2006)

Re: New look, new feel ... it must be a new release!!

nullnullnull (1491) on Aug 04, 2006


Uh. Actually no. What do you hate about it?

Re: New look, new feel ... it must be a new release!!

Gonchi (3709) on Aug 04, 2006


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I don't know, it looks too "modern"... too plain.

And I'm not particularly sure how to describe it, but game's main pages look crammed with subsections of information, and not in a good way.

I like the MobyRank addition though.

(Edited by Gonchi (3709), Aug 04, 2006)

Re: New look, new feel ... it must be a new release!!

nullnullnull (1491) on Aug 05, 2006


The homepage is next on our list to completely change. Watch out for some cool stuff.

Re: New look, new feel ... it must be a new release!!

tarmo888 (5372) on Aug 05, 2006


great, keep those updates coming

Re: New look, new feel ... it must be a new release!!

Ben K (23888) on Aug 05, 2006


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Wow, Wow, WOW!! Everything is LOCALISED NOW!! When I go to game pages with Aussie release dates, ratings, and cover art, it shows me them first! That is AWESOME. Well done to everyone, this update is fantastic!

Re: New look, new feel ... it must be a new release!!

Riamus (8521) on Aug 05, 2006


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Gonchi Wrote:
I don't know, it looks too "modern"... too plain.

And I'm not particularly sure how to describe it, but game's main pages look crammed with subsections of information, and not in a good way.

I like the MobyRank addition though.



I am sorry to say that I also think the game pages are too crammed. I liked the old view much better.

I also don't like my search text being gray instead of black. It's hard to see. :(

Oh well, I'll learn to like the new look. Or at least I will get used to it. Keep up the updates.

Re: New look, new feel ... it must be a new release!!

Unicorn Lynx (181419) on Aug 05, 2006


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I have to agree with Gonchi on this one... although I like the color and the MobyRank addition, which is cool.

But what could have been a nice design change, the new, tidy review display, was for some reason coupled with a disastrous decision: to display only a few selected reviews for a game instead of all of them.

I personally cannot stand the fact that if you open a game sheet with a lot of reviews for it, you might end up not seeing my review displayed right away! Sorry, but I think other reviewers must also feel this way.

Re: New look, new feel ... it must be a new release!!

Brian Hirt (10012) on Aug 05, 2006


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I'm open to bumping the number up from 10 to 15, 20 or 25. Possiblly it could be an account option too. At some point it doesn't make sense to display absolutely everything, especially for games with 50+ reviews. You still can get the complete list of reviews with the more reviews links.

Re: New look, new feel ... it must be a new release!!

Unicorn Lynx (181419) on Aug 05, 2006


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Yes, but it hurts me not to see my review on the front page!

I'm serious! :-(

Okay, another suggestion, then: why don't you choose a different criteria for sorting reviews other than a random generator? Why not to display reviews that got more points first?

Or to finally implement this "did you find a review helpful" feature. Why not to display the highest-voted reviews on top?

Either way, this will take care of the unfair randomness of reviews, and will finally sort reviews by quality!

Re: New look, new feel ... it must be a new release!!

Corn Popper (68933) on Aug 05, 2006


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I think the randomness is more fair than seeing a review that is always there. Gives more people incentive to write reviews to get a chance to see theirs listed and not always one person(s)'.

Re: New look, new feel ... it must be a new release!!

Unicorn Lynx (181419) on Aug 05, 2006


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Then put them all on the main page.

I repeat, I feel personally offended when I open a game sheet and don't see my review there.

Am I the only one feeling this way?

Re: New look, new feel ... it must be a new release!!

Michael B (350) on Aug 07, 2006


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Unicorn Lynx Wrote:
Then put them all on the main page.

I repeat, I feel personally offended when I open a game sheet and don't see my review there.

Am I the only one feeling this way?

No, I agree with you.

Re: New look, new feel ... it must be a new release!!

Unicorn Lynx (181419) on Aug 05, 2006


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Besides, now this "did you find the review helpful" thing can finally make some sense.

There is nothing fair about random generator. It is fair that longer and better reviews are displayed first - precisely because they are longer and better. It won't encourage people to write better reviews when they see that even if they write short and small ones they still have a chance of being displayed at the main page. On the other hand, seeing how better reviews get higher positions, they might write better ones themselves. Isn't that logical?

And it really hurts when I see a game rap sheet with the first review entitled "the game sucks" with one paragraph per section, while my long and detailed review is out of sight. No, it shouldn't be this way.

I submit an official request to change this feature. Either put all the reviews back on the main page (with the nice new format, of course), or have some real criteria for selected reviews instead of random generator.

Re: New look, new feel ... it must be a new release!!

PCGamer77 (3225) on Aug 05, 2006


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I sympathize with Oleg's complaint about displaying reviews, but I think it is better to give users the option of "display 10/20/50/all" and/or use randomness to determine the reviews displayed.

While the idea of rating reviews sounds good, I have serious doubts as to whether or not this would be a helpful metric. If people objectively rated the review as a piece of writing, then yes it would be helpful. But if people rate the review based on the *opinion* of the reviewer, then the metric will simply measure how much the reviewer agrees/disagrees with other Mobyusers. (i.e., I might write a lengthy and articulate review trashing Grand Theft Auto III, which everybody else likes, so they give me an average score of 1 out of 5).

The MobyRank feature is a good idea. But wouldn't it make more sense to have the metric be on the same scale as the MobyScore, in order to facilitate comparison?

Finally, I like the addition of trivia on the main game page, but I am still a little uncomfortable with the fact that most of these trivia tidbits seem to be unsourced, and so they are highly unreliable as gaming history.

Re: New look, new feel ... it must be a new release!!

Unicorn Lynx (181419) on Aug 07, 2006


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PCGamer77 Wrote:
But if people rate the review based on the *opinion* of the reviewer, then the metric will simply measure how much the reviewer agrees/disagrees with other Mobyusers. (i.e., I might write a lengthy and articulate review trashing Grand Theft Auto III, which everybody else likes, so they give me an average score of 1 out of 5).

Tell me about that! :(

Re: New look, new feel ... it must be a new release!!

nullnullnull (1491) on Aug 05, 2006


oleg, relax. we will make you happy. i understand you want your name in lights. this give us on aopportunity to use the "was this review helpful"

Re: New look, new feel ... it must be a new release!!

Unicorn Lynx (181419) on Aug 06, 2006


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No, it's not about my name being in lights, it's about fairness. So actually the best way would be to display all reviews. I still can't understand why it was necessary to cut them off.

So, does "did you find the review helpful" influence the display of reviews after all?

Re: New look, new feel ... it must be a new release!!

Brian Hirt (10012) on Aug 05, 2006


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The list isn't actually completely random. The more people that find your review helpful will weight your review higher so that it's usually displayed first. There is some randomness to it. The reason for that is to prevent new reviews that haven't been marked as useful from getting burried and thus never read.

The formula for choosing the reviews can easily be changed, and I'm open to suggestions. There is the newness of the review that can be considered, the number of positive ratings the review has had and the number of negetive feedbacks the review has had and of coure some random factor could be introducted.

Also, like i mentioned before, the list size can be increased.

Re: New look, new feel ... it must be a new release!!

PCGamer77 (3225) on Aug 05, 2006


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Is there a reason why the MobyScore on the main page is now disaggregated? I thought the whole idea was to have the main page as an "overall" description, with platform-specifics something you drill down to.

Re: New look, new feel ... it must be a new release!!

Belboz (6576) on Aug 05, 2006


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Brian Hirt Wrote:
The formula for choosing the reviews can easily be changed, and I'm open to suggestions.



The idea of re-shuffling the reviews depending on its usefulness/quality/what-have-you annoys me like you wouldn't believe! I prefer to read them for oldest to latest because sometimes recent reviews refer to older ones. By re-arranging them, I can't make heads or tails out of it!

Re: New look, new feel ... it must be a new release!!

Unicorn Lynx (181419) on Aug 07, 2006


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Brian Hirt Wrote:
I'm open to bumping the number up from 10 to 15, 20 or 25.

Then please bump up the number to 25.

Because I really can't stand the current situation. Sorry, but when I repeatedly click on the Refresh button just to make my review appear on the main page and it doesn't appear, I feel that I don't want to write reviews any more.

So I won't settle for anything less than 25 reviews displayed on the main page. As a long-time prolific contributor, I feel I have a right to demand that. And that's a compromise, since what I really want is all reviews displayed in this new cool format.

Sorry if I sound too aggressive, but I really feel bad because of that.

And not only because of my own reviews. When I open a game page, I want to see reviews written by Dr. von Katze, Zovni, Shazbut, and other good reviewers right at the top. I don't want to see some poor man's "this game is da shit cuz I like it" opus preceding well-written, stylish articles. Unless it was written more recently.

And PCGamer77 is right about people rating reviews because of their content, not because of their quality.

Re: New look, new feel ... it must be a new release!!

Pseudo_Intellectual (64556) on Aug 09, 2006


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Hey! When did I say that? (It just so happens that I'm on the same page with much of what you say, but don't you think it's a bit, uh, distracting and misleading to use the avatar icon of an active user in a forum in which they participate? 8)

Re: New look, new feel ... it must be a new release!!

Apogee IV (2317) on Aug 05, 2006


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Not bad guys, nice work. However, I do think that when viewing a game there's just a bit too much info and options (view more, view this, view that). Also, when you go into specific sections of the game, such as release dates, the information is still boxed around by the main info, which is distracting and takes up a lot of space. The top bar of info is actually not that bad, but particularly the right bar block with credits and screenshots. Is it really helpful to have the credits take out a large portion of the right screen when you can only see the first couple of entries anyways? Likewise, you can't really make out the screenshots either since they are cropped so small. Another detail: because the font colour is so similar, it's hard to see which parts of the Rap Sheet exists and which don't; this is especially annoying when scanning games when looking to contribute stuff.

Unicorn: I beg to differ. Longer reviews don't necessarily equal better. I'm not defending the one sentence "this game was really good nothing was bad" kind of reviews, but it totally depends on the review itself. If people want to read an indepth reviews of a certain game, they will look for one.

(Edited by Apogee IV (2317), Aug 05, 2006)

Re: New look, new feel ... it must be a new release!!

Marko Poutiainen (1160) on Aug 05, 2006


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I like the new look, but a simple idea: remove the extra divider lines from the game's page. I refer specifically to the ones at the top (that divide the columns with items like "Developer") and remove the boxes around the reviews. Keep the box, but remove the lines, that is.

I think these small changes would make the main game page a lot lighter in look. The review section in particular looks very heavy with all those lines, IMO. Other than that, thumbs up! Definitely a big improvement over the old.

Quick edit: looks like there might be bug. I tried adding a new source for MobyRank, but when I clicked the link it took me back to the page where I choose which platform I want to enter the rank.

(Edited by Marko Poutiainen (1160), Aug 05, 2006)

Re: New look, new feel ... it must be a new release!!

Diogo Ribeiro (340) on Aug 05, 2006


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Looking good. Graphically better but still clean. Good job :)

I also agree with some of the issues brought up; in particular I also think all reviews should be visible from the get go. Personally it doesn't bother me - it's not a personal issue in the sense that I have no pretention of thinking my reviews are so good they should be immediately seen - but all relative reviews should be readilly available. If it's an issue with page space, maybe there should be a review limit for each game.

That Austin Game Conference image seems to be sticking out a bit much, or is it just me?

Re: New look, new feel ... it must be a new release!!

Hervé Piton (10576) on Aug 05, 2006


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I like the new look too, it makes the website seem more modern. I agree with Apogee IV about the font colour for existing and non existing items in the Rap sheet being too similar.

I personally regret having a new ad on the main summary page, especially as it's being quite intrusive being located in a prominent position. It takes the amount of ads a main summary page to 5! I know it's possible to turn off the ads if you contribute enough to Mobygames, but I hadn't done it so far as I thought they were tolerable so far. Maybe that's actually the reason behind that new ad - to make us contribute more, which would be fair enough :)

Now I understand running a website that stores a lot of data like Mobygames means hefty expenses, but in my opinion the amount of ads is really getting intrusive, making Mobygames almost look like IGN and its kind now. Wouldn't there be some alternative income for a website like Mobygames that's probably the biggest source of information about the history of video games? Like selling detailed information to professionals or offering a range of goodies that goes beyond a boring white t-shirt?

Re: New look, new feel ... it must be a new release!!

Zovni (10623) on Aug 05, 2006


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Well first of all... Ouuuch!! My eeyes!!! So much white is not what I'm used to...How about a thicker font? I dunno...

Anyway, guess It's good to change everynow and then, still as an user of several proffesional apps, I just gotta say that I hate whenever a new release means an interface change to adjust to and the main game sheet sure is an example of that. As for the gamerankings... well, I'm not sure I understand/care about it. Nice work anyway... Switching back to MobyDark for now though.

Re: New look, new feel ... it must be a new release!!

Indra was here (20848) on Aug 05, 2006


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Nice to know there are still many followers of the DarkSide. Muahaha.

Re: New look, new feel ... it must be a new release!!

Riamus (8521) on Aug 05, 2006


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Yeah, I really don't like classic *at all*. Not even a little.

Re: New look, new feel ... it must be a new release!!

Evil Ryu (65741) on Aug 05, 2006


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MobyDark rules! :-D

Re: New look, new feel ... it must be a new release!!

Shoddyan (14412) on Aug 05, 2006


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Indra was here Wrote:
Nice to know there are still many followers of the DarkSide. Muahaha.



They remain constant thorn in the side of Brian and flipkin who are trying to code nice site designs. I've been using "Classic" for 2 days now... it's so different to look at :)

Re: New look, new feel ... it must be a new release!!

Terrence Bosky (5458) on Aug 05, 2006


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I'm trying to get used to classic, but the Dark contrast is much easier to read.

Re: New look, new feel ... it must be a new release!!

Luis Silva (13595) on Aug 06, 2006


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Right. After a while browsing this new layout, a few bad things are noticeable.

- The width of the page varies depending on the name of the companies. I know it's all about data accuracy etc, but forcing width to show something like "Virgin Interactive Entertainment (Europe) Ltd." instead of simply "Virgin" is a pointless. Using shorter aliases ("EA Deutschland" instead of "Electronic Arts Deutschland GmbH") would make more sense. This makes the website look very erratic in 800x600.

-The new screenshot box is far worse. Personally, I'd kept the larger one, and four smaller ones in the bottom, if you must.

- MobyRank and MobyScore look out of place hanging there. In games that had loads of ports, (like Prince of Persia, the box appears too cluttered. For games with over three platforms credited, only the most voted platforms should display.

-Dunno if the sidebar is still required while browsing games. I'd personally have moved the options somewhere else, and use the space for something more useful.

-The credits box wastes too much space. As all fields only have one name, why not puting them in the same line as the title ?

Re: New look, new feel ... it must be a new release!!

Indra was here (20848) on Aug 06, 2006


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...come to darkside, young ones...

Re: New look, new feel ... it must be a new release!!

chirinea (47153) on Aug 07, 2006


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Ok, you dark-follower ones, I'll tell you what!

MobyDark makes me feel like the text is floating in space. Black over white makes me think of paper and ink over it, white over black seems like stars in space...

Also, grey fonts (specially the little ones) are almost unreadable...

So turn your monitor's brightness down and pay homage to the Classic! =D

Re: New look, new feel ... it must be a new release!!

Indra was here (20848) on Aug 07, 2006


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...sooner or later we will all fall to the darkness, young one..."

I gotta stop these Sith Lord expressions...

Re: New look, new feel ... it must be a new release!!

Riamus (8521) on Aug 06, 2006


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I agree. The screenshots box needs to be changed back to how it was originally.

I also agree that the credits box is *way* to wide now. I liked the original box. Things are just way too cluttered now.

(Edited by Riamus (8521), Aug 06, 2006)

Re: New look, new feel ... it must be a new release!!

Terok Nor (32582) on Aug 07, 2006


Hmm, yeah, the layout doesn't flow very well now. That the screenshots and the credits are wider than the MobyRank/MobyScore section is really ugly. If the three sections had the same width, it would be better, I think.

Re: New look, new feel ... it must be a new release!!

Corn Popper (68933) on Aug 07, 2006


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it flows with the rating symbol if it's there

Re: New look, new feel ... it must be a new release!!

Riamus (8521) on Aug 07, 2006


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Yeah, but the width is still not good, imo. It should be set to a fixed width of the same size it used to be. We don't need a credits box that takes up 1/3 of a 1024x768 screen.... :(

Re: New look, new feel ... it must be a new release!!

Shoddyan (14412) on Aug 06, 2006


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Um... I just noticed something with the title on the top of every game sheet (that tells you the name of the game you're viewing). The text displayed there seems to be a link. It seems to link right to... the gamesheet that you're already viewing.

Is there any logical reason for this that I'm missing?

Re: New look, new feel ... it must be a new release!!

Indra was here (20848) on Aug 06, 2006


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Shoddyan Wrote:
Um... I just noticed something with the title on the top of every game sheet (that tells you the name of the game you're viewing). The text displayed there seems to be a link. It seems to link right to... the gamesheet that you're already viewing.

Is there any logical reason for this that I'm missing?



It links to game's main page. It helps when your reviewing spesific pages of the game (like screenshots, etc.)

Re: New look, new feel ... it must be a new release!!

Shoddyan (14412) on Aug 06, 2006


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Indra was here Wrote:
Shoddyan Wrote:
Um... I just noticed something with the title on the top of every game sheet (that tells you the name of the game you're viewing). The text displayed there seems to be a link. It seems to link right to... the gamesheet that you're already viewing.

Is there any logical reason for this that I'm missing?



It links to game's main page. It helps when your reviewing spesific pages of the game (like screenshots, etc.)



Yeah, but I meant that I'm looking at it when it's on the game's main page. So the link is pointing to the same place that I already am. If I read you correctly, then it's supposed to remain a link when I'm visiting subsections of the game sheet (screenshots, credits, cover art etc)? So far that doesn't seem to be the case. It remains plain text on those pages.

Re: New look, new feel ... it must be a new release!!

Michael B (350) on Aug 07, 2006


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I both liked and disliked the new look. The home page looks great, but when I visit a game entry I am confused. But I will try to get used to it. One feature I really liked: Now we can see how high up on the contribution list a user is, by looking at the user sheet.

(Edited by Michael B (350), Aug 15, 2006)

Re: New look, new feel ... it must be a new release!!

Mobygamesisreanimated (11174) on Aug 07, 2006


All in all I like the new layout better. I think it's a good idea to display more information on the game sheet, but it does look a little cluttered, especially due to the large screenshots and credits boxes. Unlike what most of you have said, I like displaying more thumbnailed screenshots better than having just one. I think it would be best to reduce the size of the screenshots/credits boxes to the same width as the moby ranking/score box.

I'm not sure how useful the Moby ranking will be, but being able to see scores of other websites and mags is a great addition.

Re: New look, new feel ... it must be a new release!!

Abi79 (361) on Aug 07, 2006


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At first I was confused. I didn't even think of looking in the news section and thought that my account was compromised and that someone changed the theme, but now I see what happened. So, what do I think of the new look? As someone else said above, it's harder now to look on a game's page. Too much information at once. But in the end you get used to it, and since MobyRank is a good addition, I can't say that I don't like the new change. Congrats!

Re: New look, new feel ... it must be a new release!!

Riamus (8521) on Aug 08, 2006


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A suggestion for the new screenshot idea...

There have been many of us who think it needs improvement or else changed back to how it used to be. Personally, I'd be okay with it if you took those 8 previews and put them in a 2x4 layout instead of a 4x2 layout and then increased the size by about 25%. I don't care about the length of the screenshot section... it's the width that bothers me.

Re: New look, new feel ... it must be a new release!!

Knyght (710) on Aug 08, 2006


About the localisation... I notice that on a gamepage, the cover that shows up is localised, but it isn't on the search listings. Is this a bug, or is it there by design? And is there any chance of this being localised, also?

Re: New look, new feel ... it must be a new release!!

Corn Popper (68933) on Aug 08, 2006


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you mean in the most wanted section?

Re: New look, new feel ... it must be a new release!!

Riamus (8521) on Aug 08, 2006


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I think he means when you search for a game using the search box.

Re: New look, new feel ... it must be a new release!!

Corn Popper (68933) on Aug 08, 2006


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well if the foreign name is an alt title then it can be searched

Re: New look, new feel ... it must be a new release!!

Riamus (8521) on Aug 08, 2006


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He's talking about cover art. It shows on the game page based on what your country setting is (e.g. Brazil cover art will show up if it's there and your country is set to Brazil). He's saying it doesn't show the localized cover art on the search page... just on the game page.

Re: New look, new feel ... it must be a new release!!

Corn Popper (68933) on Aug 08, 2006


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oh the search results page

Re: New look, new feel ... it must be a new release!!

Atom Ant (824) on Aug 09, 2006


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the game pages used to be easy to read. friends of mine could tell me about games and i could visit mobygames to get a good overview. since the update, everything looks cluttered to my eyes. the right side of the screen is also too "busy" with a banner ad looking out of place standing above the selected shots section. it takes me longer to read through these pages now.

Re: New look, new feel ... it must be a new release!!

Abi79 (361) on Aug 09, 2006


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You can always block the banner ad with Adblock, if you use Firefox, but those ads are a source of income for MobyGames.

Re: New look, new feel ... it must be a new release!!

nullnullnull (1491) on Aug 09, 2006


you can turn off ads in your preferences if you wish. all you need is to have 125 contribution points in the last year. it is however how we keep the lights on so to speak.

Re: New look, new feel ... it must be a new release!!

Atom Ant (824) on Aug 12, 2006


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the placement of the ads is what i'm complaining about. they make the layout of the page ugly. the ads alone i see are nicer than IGN or fileplanet.

Re: New look, new feel ... it must be a new release!!

Scaryfun (17975) on Aug 13, 2006


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The skyscraper ad I suppressed due to its placement...I would have to scroll down to see the screenshots which is not good. Having 8 and so tiny as to make them unclear as to any details on them i don't like either...why not just put 4 bigger ones then and screenshots box could be lined up with ranks column and credits as well (which could stand being smaller column)? I like the trivia being on the main page, and MobyRank is good idea as well... how many reviews need to be there before an average score shows up in the box?

Re: New look, new feel ... it must be a new release!!

nullnullnull (1491) on Aug 13, 2006


typically 5 but it depends