Forums > MobyGames > Game Group Request Thread 2
Indra was here (20755) on 5/20/2009 7:18 PM · Permalink · Report
In near future may propose the following groups (or not):
Indra was here (20755) on 5/21/2009 5:03 PM · edited · Permalink · Report
[Q --start stvedder wrote--]How about your idea to do groups for subgenres? Get crackin' already! [/Q --end stvedder wrote--] Bah. I get paid in real life for projects this magnitude. Designing an industrial genre concept with spesific definitions and limitations is no different from creating a legislation from scratch.
I'll just stick to no-brainer game groups for now. But unfortunately, since we have a bad habit of always talking about genre everytime we're in the same thread [ :) ], here's some of the problems:
- Some dolt a couple of decades ago incorrectly used the definition "adventure" to describe games that primarly focuses on puzzle-solving as gameplay. Adventure games have nothing to do with the mundane definition of "adventuring." (You mean Mario travels less than adventure games? :p)
- Another dolt got adventuring confused with role-playing, when actually role-playing games actually have nothing to do with role-playing, while Guybrush and Gabriel are in fact, very much role-playing.
- To add to the confusion, since technically people stuck with the definitions without actually figuring out what the definitions are limited to, the coming of hybrids make people think that adventure games are RPGs and RPGs are action games. Diablo rulz! :p
- RPGs for example, oddly have no definite pattern. Character development is not a requirement for RPGs (see classic AD&D games). Story and quests is primary in adventure games, not in RPGs, thanks to the confusion introduced by JRPGs with too many dialogs (and Bioware :p). Now, most action oriented game has an inventory system, some form of developable statistic (even if it only may be health). The adventure genre is demoted from mind-bobbling puzzles to action-adventure games where the greatest difficulty of puzzle solving is moving one block to another, or jumping on the right roof at the right time. If you add a sword and an Orc, it could qualify as an RPG too.
- Simulation games have been greatly disrupted by games like the Sims, who technically need a separate genre themselves. But of course, the average gamer doesn't care less that simulations were limited to accurately mimic real-life sequences, since FF fans don't even know what an RPG is, much less the difference between a combat simulator and a not-even-close-to-life-simulator.
Foxhack (32100) on 5/20/2009 11:04 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Xoleras wrote--]What's the problem with the Emulator genre? [/Q --end Xoleras wrote--]I change my vote to "Games with blatantly ripped off Emulators" instead. The Oretachi Game Center games use a stolen version of MAME, and all the non-Nintendo made GBA games that include NES games use a ripped off version of PocketNES. :p
beetle120 (2415) on 5/22/2009 12:46 AM · edited · Permalink · Report
An Australian game show called 'Good Game' has this backwards compatible section where they talk about the history of a certain thing in games. Mostly it is about consoles, people, or genres but sometimes they have stuff that could be used as a game group. So I made a list.
Xoleras (66141) on 5/22/2009 3:21 AM · Permalink · Report
Well.
Health bars would probably be to big, as will power-ups.
Easter Eggs might be good. We do list the easter eggs in trivia (or tips&tricks?), but getting a list with games containing one might be interesting.
For controversial games, see OFLC RC, BPjS/BPjM indexed games or even Germany Criminal Code confiscations (§131: Excess Violence). Don't think we need a general group for this stuff.
What's the difference between Edutainment and "educational games" (Educational is a main genre, with all the stuff like Math, Music, Religion etc. as sub-genres.)
beetle120 (2415) on 5/22/2009 4:01 AM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Xoleras wrote--]Well.
Health bars would probably be to big, as will power-ups. [/Q --end Xoleras wrote--] I agree that Health bars probably would be too big as a group. But I would like to see groups of the differing ways to take damage (traditional health bar, regenerating health bar, last 2 combined (like Perfect Dark Zero), or just getting hit too much at once (COD4)). But I still think this would be too big but it would be nice to have to track the evolution of these systems.
I don't know about power-ups maybe we could split it into groups like time-limited power-ups and damage based power-ups (like super Mario) etc to make the groups smaller.
[Q --start Xoleras wrote--] Easter Eggs might be good. We do list the easter eggs in trivia (or tips&tricks?), but getting a list with games containing one might be interesting. [/Q --end Xoleras wrote--] Agreed, only if we had notes for the games within the groups.
[Q --start Xoleras wrote--] For controversial games, see OFLC RC, BPjS/BPjM indexed games or even Germany Criminal Code confiscations (§131: Excess Violence). Don't think we need a general group for this stuff. [/Q --end Xoleras wrote--] Forgot about that. But what about voluntary recalls as a group if there is a number of them.
[Q --start Xoleras wrote--] What's the difference between Edutainment and "educational games" (Educational is a main genre, with all the stuff like Math, Music, Religion etc. as sub-genres.) [/Q --end Xoleras wrote--] Forgot about that too. But I so like the word Edutainment
Indra was here (20755) on 5/22/2009 7:22 PM · Permalink · Report
Dum de dum dum.
Mobygamesisreanimated (11069) on 5/23/2009 8:14 AM · Permalink · Report
Aren't there tons of RPGs that are level and skill-based?
St. Martyne (3648) on 5/23/2009 11:24 AM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Supernintendo Chalmers wrote--]Aren't there tons of RPGs that are level and skill-based? [/Q --end Supernintendo Chalmers wrote--]
provocative tone Aren't they all?
Mobygamesisreanimated (11069) on 5/23/2009 2:42 PM · Permalink · Report
But what's the point of two groups when 90% of the games overlap?
Indra was here (20755) on 5/23/2009 7:51 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Supernintendo Chalmers wrote--]Aren't there tons of RPGs that are level and skill-based?
[/Q --end Supernintendo Chalmers wrote--]
All RPGs are either are skill based, level based or both. Tons. Yep.
Now the fun part is when we find an RPG that doesn't have either. :p
beetle120 (2415) on 5/23/2009 2:25 PM · edited · Permalink · Report
I like this idea of marking all the gameplay features into groups. However, I think that the game group feature has to be updated to make this work properly like groups of game groups and the ability to see lists of games that belong to two or more groups (e.g List of games that are Hack & Slash and has Classes available)
chirinea (47495) on 5/23/2009 8:58 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Indra Depari of 'da Clan Depari wrote--]Dum de dum dum.
Havoc Crow (29859) on 5/23/2009 6:45 PM · Permalink · Report
Game Group Title: Mondo series
Game Group Description: Mondo Medicals and Mondo Agency, two games by Cactus Software (and a third one in the works) set in the Mondo world. All share a common setting and similar graphics design.
Havoc Crow (29859) on 5/23/2009 7:06 PM · Permalink · Report
where?
Indra was here (20755) on 5/25/2009 8:24 PM · edited · Permalink · Report
Just added blacksmithing in the queue. I'll never get these game groups done at this rate. :p
Indra was here (20755) on 5/28/2009 6:11 PM · edited · Permalink · Report
Games with blacksmithing is now official. Add away, people.
Indra was here (20755) on 5/30/2009 10:30 PM · edited · Permalink · Report
So while this complimentary Canaanite wedding wine from the Holy Land (which I might add is fabulously delicious) is clouding my better judgement, I am faced with the dillusionary noble task to actually create the one of the unseemlingly daunting RPG game groups, as a fundamental benchmark that I indeed have no life, a hardcore RPG fanboi, no idea whatsover how to do this, and proud of it too! Er.
So here goes:
Tentative Title: RPG: Character Skill [Skill-based removed]
Tentative Description:
RPGs (Role-Playing Games) either as the primary genre or a sub-genre (gameplay wise) where the playable character(s) involved allow the development of skill-based advancement. Skill-based advancement for the purposes of this game group shall be defined as the following:
Traits, abilities or attributes of similar report that are automatically developed, or in this regard, increased; after continued repetitive manual use by the controllable character of the mentioned skill. Points, bonuses or similar variations are not required to be distributed in order for a mentioned skill level to be increased.
Example: A character has a climbing skill. Continued use of the skill by scaling walls, chimneys, or the corporate ladder may prompt a skill increase usually viewable in the character sheet, or default game page that identifies character skills. After continued use, the climb skill has increased from 10 to 15.
Limitations
- Underline "automatically developed" in this regard. If skill points are required to be distributed, then it is not considered to be skill-based.
- If a skill is increased not by continued repetitive use of the mentioned skill, but automatically increased, for example, when the character levels up, it is not considered to be skill-based.
- RPGs that have both level-based [enter tentative mobylink here] and skill-based should also be included in this game group.
Pseudo_Intellectual (66362) on 5/31/2009 12:06 AM · Permalink · Report
Though I understand that this is contemporarily regarded as one of the primary characteristics of a modern RPG video game, is it important to track this as an RPG subset? I could imagine racing or skateboarding games, for instance, with skill-based advancement.
Some games I could think of off the top of my head that work this way (Player repeats action; character becomes better at the action) include... Dungeon Master, Quest for Glory, Morrowind and San Andreas. (Yes, I imagine they would all conventionally be considered RPGs.)
I guess the big distinction between this and many other RPGs is skill leveling on a case by case basis vs. gathering experience points and then having the rising tide of level advancement raise all skills equally, whether they have been used or not?
vedder (70822) on 5/31/2009 1:04 AM · Permalink · Report
Ok, I get the idea, but it definitely needs a different title. Because right now it could mean anything.
First off all you wan to change skill to "character skill" or something like that, because when I first read it I thought it required skill from the player. You know, like how an FPS requires aiming skills.
Second of all, since you want to use it only for skill leveling like in Morrowind, where a skill increases when the player uses it a lot.So you might want to throw a term like positive feedback into the title.
Which, at 3 o'clock on a saturday night leads me to: "RPG: Positive feedback character skill advancement". Which I bet will look even worse tomorrow :) But at least it summarizes what you want it to contain precisely.
Indra was here (20755) on 5/31/2009 7:50 PM · Permalink · Report
Oh, FYI to prevent further confusion. This going to be one in a set of game groups as a workaround for "sub-genres" and "sub-sub genres". Oh, boy.
As this is a tentative description (and title) for the game group please mention:
1. Which parts of the description is deemed unclear.
2. I seem to be hinting that I may have got this entirely wrong, or am I paranoid? :p
3. Are there areas that have not been covered? Please express explicitely.
4. Are there areas that still need to be limited? Please express explicitely.
But more importantly. I seem to have run out of booze.
Indra was here (20755) on 6/1/2009 7:36 PM · edited · Permalink · Report
Interesting. After some research, it seems that the golden rule that all RPGs have (or more precisely, should have) is numeral statistics that represent a characters abilities. Secondly, that a player may directly control that character (the exact interpretation of role-playing, so technically, being Mario is role-playing. Ouch.).
[Edit. Thus character development, quests/sub-quests, item/inventory system, story, are not the main characterstics that define an RPG]
Now how do you send a genre description correction in MobyGames? Hmm.
Pseudo_Intellectual (66362) on 6/1/2009 7:50 PM · Permalink · Report
Interesting. After some research, it seems that the golden rule that all RPGs have (or more precisely, should have) is numeral statistics that represent a characters abilities.
You are falling down a rabbit hole. If a game has four states for a player's health (healthy, wounded, injured, dead) and represents these with words instead of numbers, do they not apply?
the exact interpretation of role-playing
You're playing an unuseful bit of literalism here. What it says and what it means actually are different things.
Thus character development, quests/sub-quests, item/inventory system, story, are not the main characterstics that define an RPG
I'm open to alternate interpretations, but I can't say that yours thus far is anything approaching convincing. I'm concerned that you're talking nonsense and don't appear to realise it.
Indra was here (20755) on 6/1/2009 8:39 PM · edited · Permalink · Report
You are falling down a rabbit hole. If a game has four states for a player's health (healthy, wounded, injured, dead) and represents these with words instead of numbers, do they not apply?
Yes. That the problem with RPGs in games. There never was a clear original definition to identify what RPG gaming is. Its roots are from pen-and-pencil games, and developed from there. Historically speaking, it probably wouldn't be deemed as an RPG. Additionally, you make a Mario game with at least 1 numberical statistic identifying a character attribute (e.g. health), that probably makes it an RPG. :p
You're playing an unuseful bit of literalism here. What it says and what it means actually are different things.
Dude, we all know that possibly every bloody genre definition in the gaming industry has possibly the exact meaning to any word an intoxicated drunk says. That's beside the point. The point is actually providing a template to work on, try to limit its scope, and hopefully finally able to identify what kind of animal we're talking about. Enlighten us with something we're not aware of.
No one really knows what RPGs are, everyone assumes they know what RPGs are, if you have a bloke whose first RPG game is Diablo, another bloke whose first game RPG game is Pool of Radiance, and another bloke whose first RPG game is Rogue, you have 3 blokes with 3 different identifications of what RPGs are. Is Zelda an RPG? Shouldn't there be a unanimous opinion by now? Apparently not.
Pseudo_Intellectual (66362) on 6/1/2009 9:33 PM · Permalink · Report
Its roots are from pen-and-pencil games, and developed from there.
But those games were tactical tabletop military simulation wargames! Do they remain what they are when shorn of their historical baggage?
Historically speaking, it probably wouldn't be deemed as an RPG.
While I don't know of any specific instances that follow my example (I am pretty sure that many of the more story-oriented MUDs, another early computer adaptation of D&D, use descriptions rather than numbers to maintain a certain suspension of disbelief), I don't agree with your conclusion that numeric representation (under the hood, abstracted into dots or bar graphs or even one-to-one word-number analogues such as "the orc is panting heavily" versus "Orc HP: 2") is a necessary quality of the genre.
I want to introduce a focus on elements of randomization to the conversation, primitive games that resolve disputes with flipped coins, the use of playing cards or rock-paper-scissors without necessarily tracking numerical statistics. However, it is true that the influence of these games on CRPGs has likely been slight 8)
Additionally, you make a Mario game with at least 1 numberical statistic identifying a character attribute (e.g. health), that probably makes it an RPG. :p
Mario already has a health stat: he starts with one hit point, gains another when eating a mushroom (not designated as HP: 2 but by calling him Super Mario), etc.
Enlighten us with something we're not aware of.
Psychodrama: early use of theatrical role-playing (and likely the coining of the phrase) in group therapy contexts. I was introduced to it in high school French immersion while looking through the French-English dictionary for the French term for RPGs.
My take on what you've said is that any game where the player controls an avatar is a role-playing game. While on a certain literal level that may be true, it's both unuseful (due to the relative lack of avatar-less games) and a sense in which roughly nobody uses the phrase. How to straighten up a term with multiple meanings but by weighing it down with an additional meaning you've just invented?
No one really knows what RPGs are, everyone assumes they know what RPGs are, if you have a bloke whose first RPG game is Diablo, another bloke whose first game RPG game is Pool of Radiance, and another bloke whose first RPG game is Rogue, you have 3 blokes with 3 different identifications of what RPGs are. Is Zelda an RPG? Shouldn't there be a unanimous opinion by now? Apparently not.
A term's meaning changes and evolves over time. It might be useful to determine the qualities people intended to convey when they said "RPG" in the '70s, '80s, and '90s, and how those differed... but they were all called RPGs, though they were all describing different things. I think that isolating these qualities and finding new names in retrospect for them might be more useful than trying to track down the one or two qualities running through all incarnations of games called RPGs.
Indra was here (20755) on 6/1/2009 10:01 PM · Permalink · Report
Every definition has a basic pattern of identification. We use of definitions to limit the scope of a word, in the event where two or more people identify different interpretations of a word. My point is, we have lizards, snakes, my next door neighbour, but they are all reptiles. Now the problem arises when we have a platipus, or a hybrid in the form of a snake-headed chicken.
Hell, I'm not 100% sure if Sword of Aragon, Football Manager and Romance of the Three Kingdoms for example are RPGs. Simply put, if someone asks you what an RPG is, how does one answer that question. How does an admin/approver answer a submission when faced with a similar case on whether or not a game is an RPG? If you state that the definitions of RPGs in each era are in fact different, than that only prolongs the basic question. What characteristics of an RPG differ from each era? What differs Role Playing in games from Role Playing with your girlfriend?
Gah. I don't prefer assuming. What may or may not be. Prefer what is. That's what I'm trying to figure out.
Pseudo_Intellectual (66362) on 6/1/2009 10:22 PM · Permalink · Report
Hell, I'm not 100% sure if Sword of Aragon, Football Manager and Romance of the Three Kingdoms for example are RPGs.
I don't know about the last two, but SoA is a fantasy-skinned wargame with unit levelling and rump economic management. If people call it an RPG, it's because they think that RPGs are like D&D, and D&D is anything like Tolkien books that has dragons and goblins in it... and SoA has dragons and goblins. QED.
Tactical military simulations, as I've said, are the trunk of the tree off which CRPGs are a branch. If they've traditionally failed to have unit levelling, I imagine it's only due to their traditionally limited timeframes (in a game simulating one particular battle, their skills will only be improving so much) and the general hassle of tracking and calculating unit improvement using pen and paper.
It might be useful at this point to go to the source and look for the qualities the emerging RPGs had that differed from existing tabletop wargames. A lot of early computer games were direct conversions of earlier analogue games of that style (think Avalon Hill) -- practically SSI's bread and butter in the early days, and due to their marriage of that gameplay with the AD&D license in the Gold Box series, likely responsible in large part for their imprint on subsequent CRPGs. Playing RPGs with friends was mostly conversation but playing them on computers was mostly mapping and combat -- computer-assisted automated filler.
In the end I fear that RPG is one of those so-overused-it's-become-meaningless terms (like "adventure" or "puzzle") that we're eventually going to have to throw out forever before we can get along with any serious trend analysis.
Indra was here (20755) on 6/1/2009 8:43 PM · edited · Permalink · Report
[Q --start stvedder wrote--]...the character(s) grow in abilities/power/skill over time/play. [/Q --end stvedder wrote--] Do they have to grow? Any RPGs that do not allow statistics to develop perhaps?
Indra was here (20755) on 6/1/2009 8:48 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Indra Depari of 'da Clan Depari wrote--] [Q2 --start stvedder wrote--]...the character(s) grow in abilities/power/skill over time/play. [/Q2 --end stvedder wrote--] Do they have to grow? Any RPGs that do not allow statistics to develop perhaps? [/Q --end Indra Depari of 'da Clan Depari wrote--] Hmm. Early AD&D games do not allow the development of statistics, besides hit dice and health.
Indra was here (20755) on 6/1/2009 9:06 PM · Permalink · Report
But continuing Rowans point. Any RPGs that do not have statistical attributes, but replaced with symbolic attributes?
vedder (70822) on 6/1/2009 9:25 PM · Permalink · Report
It doesn't matter from a technical point of view. If a player's health is shown through descriptions or a health bar, it's still numbers in the back-end. Looking at a rap sheet with numbers is a common aspect of many RPGs but it doesn't define an RPG. It can be cleverly disguised in graphics, animations, text or even sound.
Indra was here (20755) on 6/1/2009 9:41 PM · edited · Permalink · Report
[Q --start stvedder wrote--]It doesn't matter from a technical point of view. If a player's health is shown through descriptions or a health bar, it's still numbers in the back-end. Looking at a rap sheet with numbers is a common aspect of many RPGs but it doesn't define an RPG. It can be cleverly disguised in graphics, animations, text or even sound. [/Q --end stvedder wrote--] I dunno. Technically speaking, I have this inherent sensation of doom pending that if this is so, every freakin arcade game, if having a couple or more non-statistical attributes, qualifies as an RPG.
Pseudo_Intellectual (66362) on 6/1/2009 10:04 PM · Permalink · Report
RPG: any program that manages variables.
vedder (70822) on 6/1/2009 10:28 PM · Permalink · Report
The problem here is that you're trying to pin the term "Role-Playing" to one single game design pattern. While in fact that is not the case. RPGs feature multiple game design patterns. And a single RPG game doesn't have to have all patterns to be an RPG.
A Link to the Past doesn't feature numerical stats as you put them (appart from number of heart containers), but it has a quest chain, character development (in the form of items and heart containers), item/inventory system and a story.
Dark Messiah of Might and Magic, doesn't have a quest system, but it does have all the other things.
Rogue doesn't have a real story, nor a quest chain, but it has all the rest.
Etc.
You can easily skip a couple patterns and still end up with an RPG. (and with RPG I mean a CRPG. Because Role-Playing in the real world is an even broader term.)
Indra was here (20755) on 6/2/2009 6:38 PM · edited · Permalink · Report
[Q --start stvedder wrote--]The problem here is that you're trying to pin the term "Role-Playing" to one single game design pattern. While in fact that is not the case. RPGs feature multiple game design patterns. And a single RPG game doesn't have to have all patterns to be an RPG. [/Q --end stvedder wrote--] On the contrary. Everything in existence has unique pattern. RPGs included. We can't say that a single RPG game doesn't have all the patterns of an RPG when no one has really even identified what those patterns really are.
Thus far the popular "assumptions" of identifiable RPGs consist of a combination of:
Indra was here (20755) on 6/5/2009 5:23 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start stvedder wrote--]But that doesn't mean that all games that have character advancement are RPGs. [/Q --end stvedder wrote--] More interested in whether or not all RPGs have character development, which is the primary intent of this game group which I seem to be neglecting. :p
Indra was here (20755) on 6/2/2009 8:32 PM · Permalink · Report
Tentative Title: RPG: Character Level Tentative Description:
RPGs (Role-Playing Games) either as the primary genre or a sub-genre (gameplay wise) where the playable character(s) involved advance in character levels, indicating how advanced a character is. Level-based advancement for the purposes of this game group shall be defined as the following:
Experience attained by playable character(s) which fulfill a certain criteria set by the game allowing the character to advance indicated by an ascending numerals for character levels. Commonly known with the term "leveling-up," it allows attributes, skills, traits, etc., of the character(s) to be increased automatically, or manually subject to player re-distribution.
Limitations
- RPGs that do not identify "experience points" in the character sheet or anywhere else within the game, then it not considered level-based. Unless in the rare circumstance that a character level does exist and does increase through time, though the mechanics are hidden;
- RPGs that do not identify a character level, but however may identify skills levels, are to be excluded from this game group.
- RPGs that have both level-based and skill-based should also be included in this game group.
chirinea (47495) on 6/3/2009 6:10 AM · edited · Permalink · Report
OK, I'm lazy about writing descriptions, so help me with this:
Christian themed games: games based on the Christian religion or something...
I thought about something like a series of groups, like the Mythology, but instead with religion. Like "Religion: Christian". I guess we won't have many games outside the Christian group, but anyway, it would be interesting to track those.
And yes, we have a genre for religion, but only for educational games, AFAIK.
Indra was here (20755) on 6/3/2009 5:44 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start chirinea wrote--]Christian themed games: games based on the Christian religion or something... [/Q --end chirinea wrote--] I'll help you out. But first
chirinea (47495) on 6/4/2009 12:53 AM · edited · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Indra Depari of 'da Clan Depari wrote--]
Indra was here (20755) on 6/4/2009 6:53 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start chirinea wrote--] That is, having a priest only in a game wouldn't make it meet the criteria to enter the "Religion: Christian" group. But a whole game dealing with some Celtic cult would. [/Q --end chirinea wrote--] Dude, are you sure? Surely Warrior Monks units of Medieval Total War and any strategy game that allows the building of churches or temples is a bit off.
Pseudo_Intellectual (66362) on 6/4/2009 7:28 PM · Permalink · Report
Surely Warrior Monks units of Medieval Total War and any strategy game that allows the building of churches or temples is a bit off.
Or, uh, any game about the Crusades or Templar conspiracy?
a whole game dealing with some Celtic cult would.
I have to say that when I hear "some Celtic cult", I think much more strongly of "wicker man" pre-christian pagan Druid rites than of Christian sects. That might fit in a Religion: Paganism group, but not a Religion: Christianity one 8)
One imagines that any similar groupings for games covering Buddhism or Hinduism would end up being redundant with hypothetical Setting: China or India groups. (Would The Shivah fit in a Religion: Judaism group?)
Indra was here (20755) on 6/4/2009 7:32 PM · Permalink · Report
Creating a game group for every pagan sect. Now there's a feat.
Pseudo_Intellectual (66362) on 6/4/2009 7:42 PM · Permalink · Report
No, games existing for every pagan sect would be a feat.
How many games do you know of about Zoroaster and Mithras?
Indra was here (20755) on 6/4/2009 8:22 PM · Permalink · Report
Good point.
Just one for Mithras, I know of. Conquests of Camelot.
Zeppin (8408) on 6/4/2009 8:39 PM · Permalink · Report
The appropriately named Cult of Mithras comes to mind.
chirinea (47495) on 6/4/2009 8:10 PM · edited · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Pseudo_Intellectual wrote--]a whole game dealing with some Celtic cult would.
I have to say that when I hear "some Celtic cult", I think much more strongly of "wicker man" pre-christian pagan Druid rites than of Christian sects. That might fit in a Religion: Paganism group, but not a Religion: Christianity one 8) [/Q --end Pseudo_Intellectual wrote--]Yeah, I didn't construct the sentence well, I meant that a whole game dealing with some Celtic cult would fit in some "Religion: Celtic" or whatever, not Christian, of course. =)
Zeppin (8408) on 6/4/2009 2:29 AM · edited · Permalink · Report
As this is an entirely new nature of submission for me, feel free to be blunt in your suggestions. It's a faster way to learn.
Game Group Title: Game Engine: Cocoa DR3
Game Group Description: In 1998, Apple released the third developer release of it's visual programming application, an expansion on it's prior KidSim project designed by Apple's Advanced Technology Group (ATG). Created as a simple introduction to the idea of programming it's primary use was for the development of games and simulations, most commonly, but not exclusively, of an educational nature. A plug-in was also provided, allowing the resulting stand-alone applications to be run instead through a browser. The engine has since been adopted and developed into a separate entity by Stagecast Software.
Games within this group should exclusively be based on the DR3 engine, which should not be confused with it's predecessors KidSim, DR1, and DR2 or it's successor Stagecast Creator. Games based on similarly designed but distinct engines such as AgentSheets should also be excluded.
Game Examples: A Day at Work, Alien Conspiracy, Yogurt Commercial
Game Exclusions: No clear examples currently in database.
For those interested in the engine information and my (primary) sources, information can be found at the following places... Project Cocoa, Cocoa Project Pages, Wikipedia: Stagecast Creator, Stagecast: Cocoa, AgentSheets
For the curious this is indeed where Apple got the name for it's more modern framework.
If this does ever get approved it might help approvers that Cocoa DR3 games are by their nature grid based.
Indra was here (20755) on 6/4/2009 8:45 PM · Permalink · Report
For all you perverts. Myself excluded. :)
chirinea (47495) on 6/4/2009 9:01 PM · edited · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Indra Depari of 'da Clan Depari wrote--]For all you perverts. Myself excluded. :)
Politically Incorrect game titles. [/Q --end Indra Depari of 'da Clan Depari wrote--] Seriously, rape or raper aren't politically incorrect words.
Foxhack (32100) on 6/4/2009 10:30 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start chirinea wrote--] [Q2 --start Indra Depari of 'da Clan Depari wrote--]For all you perverts. Myself excluded. :)
Politically Incorrect game titles. [/Q2 --end Indra Depari of 'da Clan Depari wrote--] Seriously, rape or raper aren't politically incorrect words. [/Q --end chirinea wrote--]Call someone a raper, see how fast you get your ass kicked. :P
Pseudo_Intellectual (66362) on 6/4/2009 10:33 PM · Permalink · Report
There is no politically correct way of describing rape. consent-challeged sex partners?
chirinea (47495) on 6/5/2009 1:39 AM · Permalink · Report
If there is no way to say it "politically correctly", then the whole concept means nothing when it comes to rape. The way I see it, "political correctness" is itself and euphemism for... "euphemism"! That said, just take the example in the description itself. If you say fuck in TV, you'll get censored. But if you say "rape", you won't. Rape is an offensive act, not an offensive word.
Indra was here (20755) on 6/5/2009 5:27 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start chirinea wrote--]Rape is an offensive act, not an offensive word. [/Q --end chirinea wrote--]Good point. But the title identifies the player as the raper (or at least the player hopes so :p). Is that not politically incorrect enough?
Indra was here (20755) on 6/8/2009 5:37 PM · edited · Permalink · Report
Although not politically incorrect, the alternate title for this game, is just plain wrong. :p
Pseudo_Intellectual (66362) on 6/4/2009 9:08 PM · Permalink · Report
Howabout "profane game titles"?
chirinea (47495) on 6/4/2009 9:10 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Pseudo_Intellectual wrote--]Howabout "profane game titles"? [/Q --end Pseudo_Intellectual wrote--] Also, a new limitation should be added to the description: although most of these games were added by Pseudo_Intellectual, it doesn't mean that any game added by him fits in this group. =P
Pseudo_Intellectual (66362) on 6/4/2009 9:25 PM · Permalink · Report
hey, I'm back down to under half of the frucks!
Indra was here (20755) on 6/5/2009 5:28 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start chirinea wrote--] [Q2 --start Pseudo_Intellectual wrote--]Howabout "profane game titles"? [/Q2 --end Pseudo_Intellectual wrote--] Also, a new limitation should be added to the description: although most of these games were added by Pseudo_Intellectual, it doesn't mean that any game added by him fits in this group. =P [/Q --end chirinea wrote--] I'm pretty sure he knows a couple hundred titles that should be in this group we currently aren't aware of. I ran out of swear words to type in the search engine. Most of it with Kit's help. :)
Indra was here (20755) on 6/11/2009 6:12 PM · Permalink · Report
Games with fishing done.
Not enough time to tackle difficult game groups. Was planning to create a game group where players are required to eat regularly or suffer starvation and death. Games with food or Games with starvation just doesn't sound right.
Pseudo_Intellectual (66362) on 6/11/2009 6:25 PM · Permalink · Report
Games with food or Games with starvation just doesn't sound right.
Classically game developers have referred to these as games with hunger daemons.
Indra was here (20755) on 6/11/2009 6:53 PM · edited · Permalink · Report
Egad. Sounds so Pagan. Well, if it is a publicly known term, works for me.
[edit: You have a page handy for some initial research? You'd think that wikipedia would have every possible term known to man in their database by now... :p]
Pseudo_Intellectual (66362) on 6/11/2009 7:48 PM · Permalink · Report
There are 745 Google returns for "hunger daemon", most from players of text adventure games, though it also applies to many roguelikes (most notably NetHack). The use of the term "daemon" is a throwback to the early UNIX roots of both IF and Rogue, describing a persisting process running in the background of a mainframe 8)
Scaryfun (20370) on 6/12/2009 5:02 AM · edited · Permalink · Report
I request these groups:
Nickelodeon Games - games based on shows created for the Nickelodeon American cable tv channel for kids which is owned by CBS Corporation. Includes: SpongeBob SquarePants, Jimmy Neutron, Avatar: The Last Airbender, Rugrats, The Ren and Stimpy Show, Are You Afraid of the Dark?, Animorphs, Dora the Explorer. Excludes: Shows that air on Nickelodeon but were originated on a different network.
Cartoon Network Games - games based on shows created for the Cartoon Network American cable tv channel owned by Turner Broadcasting. Includes: Dexter's Laboratory, Powerpuff Girls, Samurai Jack, Star Wars: Clone Wars. Excludes: Shows that air on Cartoon Network but were originated on a different network.
Dreamworks Animation Games - games based on movies or tv series created by Dreamworks Animation SKG studio. Includes: Antz, Shrek, Over The Hedge, Kung Fu Panda.
Pixar Games - games based on movies or tv series created by Pixar Animation Studios which were bought by Disney in 2006. Includes: Toy Story, Monsters Inc., Finding Nemo, The Incredibles.
Sinbad Games - games featuring Sinbad the sailor whose origins are from an ancient Middle Eastern story. Includes: Sinbad and the Throne of the Falcon, Sinbad: Legend of the Seven Seas, Persian Wars.
P.S. I noticed two different groups Peter Pan books and Peter Pan games which cover same titles. I would delete the books group but move the description to the games group. Thanks.
Foxhack (32100) on 6/12/2009 5:26 AM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Scaryfun wrote--]Oz Games - games based on any stories or characters in the land of Oz originally created in a series of novels by L. Frank Baum but also carried on by other authors. Also included are any games based on movies, the most famous being The Wizard of Oz 1939 movie starring Judy Garland, or any other adaptations. [/Q --end Scaryfun wrote--]AHEM
Indra was here (20755) on 6/25/2009 7:56 PM · Permalink · Report
Wanting to create a "Games with randomly generated universes" but for some odd reason the "universes" part feels kinda weird, or is it just me? Should apply to A LOT of strategy games and some RPG games.
By the way, Games with hunger daemons. Someone approve the paragraph revision already. Looks awful. :p
Pseudo_Intellectual (66362) on 6/25/2009 11:33 PM · Permalink · Report
universe, world, "game world", environments?
Are you okay with all strict roguelikes falling into this category?
Indra was here (20755) on 6/26/2009 9:25 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Pseudo_Intellectual wrote--]Are you okay with all strict roguelikes falling into this category? [/Q --end Pseudo_Intellectual wrote--] Exactly what I had in mind actually. "Environment" has a nice ring to it, technically speaking, unless there is already a default definition in use (like hunger daemons), I'll go with default, if any.
Indra was here (20755) on 6/30/2009 5:49 PM · Permalink · Report
Games with randomly generated environments is no longer random. And I ran out of ideas.
Indra was here (20755) on 6/30/2009 6:42 PM · Permalink · Report
Nice "few". A lot of strategy games still need to go here. Oh, btw. I suddenly remembered those types of games where you try to land a lunar craft on a rocky surface (you know, where you can only move in the direction of the thrusters). Technically, that's a "random" but not exactly what I had in mind. For the simple reason that its not, er...diverse(?) enough.
Should this be excluded?
Pseudo_Intellectual (66362) on 6/30/2009 7:51 PM · Permalink · Report
Don't see why they would warrant exclusion, given the current phrasing of the game group description. "Games with randomly determined environment except for those of genres of no interest to Indra" would be another group entirely.
Indra was here (20755) on 7/1/2009 7:50 PM · Permalink · Report
Believe me, that was my initial choice, but policy inhibits me from blatant forms of ego display. :p
Cantillon (77080) on 7/1/2009 7:35 PM · Permalink · Report
Pseudo asked in a contribution to the Games with hunger daemon group: Will this be complemented with a "Games with sleep daemons" group? I was also thinking of some Eye of the Beholder-type games which don't force the players to eat or sleep but prevent them from healing if they have no food.
Indra was here (20755) on 7/1/2009 7:49 PM · edited · Permalink · Report
[Q --start lieven.dk wrote--]I was also thinking of some Eye of the Beholder-type games which don't force the players to eat or sleep but prevent them from healing if they have no food. [/Q --end lieven.dk wrote--] I thought about that, but decided against it. May need to re-write the description a bit. Experienced this in Ultima VI, reasoning against it was there were alternate ways in healing, thus eating was optional not mandatory. If there is no other way to heal except through eating, then it qualifies.
Is this the case?
Luis Silva (13443) on 7/1/2009 12:12 AM · Permalink · Report
I'm wondering, is there any group to include all games released under the "Games For Windows" campaign ? While they include a lot of PC gaming these days, not every game is under that branch.
Indra was here (20755) on 7/1/2009 8:36 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Erkenbrand wrote--]Is there a list with all the game groups available? [/Q --end Erkenbrand wrote--] Only to viewable to approvers only unfortunately. Not quite sure why either. The list is dang ugly. :)
Cantillon (77080) on 7/1/2009 8:56 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Indra Depari of 'da Clan Depari wrote--] [Q2 --start Erkenbrand wrote--]Is there a list with all the game groups available? [/Q2 --end Erkenbrand wrote--] Only to viewable to approvers only unfortunately. Not quite sure why either. The list is dang ugly. :) [/Q --end Indra Depari of 'da Clan Depari wrote--] No, it's not. I could see it before I became an approver: Game group browser.
Indra was here (20755) on 7/1/2009 9:02 PM · edited · Permalink · Report
Blimey. How do you manually get here?
Indra was here (20755) on 7/2/2009 6:07 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Kitsune Sniper wrote--]You get a free pass, he's been here for way much longer than you or me. ;) [/Q --end Kitsune Sniper wrote--] ...and I still get lost. :p
Indra was here (20755) on 7/4/2009 5:51 PM · Permalink · Report
beetle120 (2415) on 7/5/2009 11:13 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Indra Depari of 'da Clan Depari wrote--]Birth control anyone?. [/Q --end Indra Depari of 'da Clan Depari wrote--]
Should I add The Sims and all it countless expansions to that group or is that going overboard (there is about 60 games to add).
PolloDiablo (16852) on 7/5/2009 6:50 AM · edited · Permalink · Report
Hannah Montana games --- Games that feature the fictional character Hannah Montana, played by Miley Cyrus blablabla etc etc TKKG games --- Educational detective games that feature the 'TKKG' club.
(note, both groups to be created after the first game in the series has been added as they are not in the database yet)
Indra was here (20755) on 7/7/2009 2:16 PM · edited · Permalink · Report
Note: Not quite sure 'bout the title either. Exportable characters? Sounds weird.
Do we have something remotely connected to this? If not, I propose to make a game group in reference to this, where a player may import a character to one game and export it to another, e.g. AD&D, QFG, etc.
Only problem in this regard is whether or not this should all be lumped into one game group (which I think is a bad idea), or should be separated into different universes, e.g. Imported Characters: AD&D, based on the argumentation that the game description can be used to specifically identify which characters can be exported to which game.
Pseudo_Intellectual (66362) on 7/7/2009 2:54 PM · Permalink · Report
Some games import only; others export only. And some non AD&D games do import D&D characters! (I'm thinking Magic Candle or something of its era) ... would these all warrant separate groups? Then there are games designed to be interlocking like the Breach and Rules of Engagement series...)
Indra was here (20755) on 7/8/2009 9:00 PM · Permalink · Report
Yikes. That would be problematic. If imported/exported characters could be limited to a certain series or universe, would be easier. Most feasible solution (unless someone out there has actually made a matrix of what games can be exported/imported to/from where) is a one game group with a detailed description of the export/import matrix.
Pseudo_Intellectual (66362) on 7/9/2009 3:21 AM · Permalink · Report
That or we could just specify accepted-input and output-accepted games in the description or trivia.
Havoc Crow (29859) on 7/12/2009 8:01 AM · edited · Permalink · Report
Game Group Title: Games with in-game developer commentary
Game Group Description: Games which offer developer commentary that is integrated into the game, and appears as you play through the game.
Not belonging in group: Games where the behind-the-scenes commentary is presented as videos or documents outside the game itself.
Examples: Portal, Half-Life 2: Lost Coast, Half-Life 2: Episode One, Half-Life 2: Episode Two, Chronicles of Riddick
vedder (70822) on 7/12/2009 5:52 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start JudgeDeadd wrote--]Game Group Title: Games with in-game developer commentary
Game Group Description: Games which offer developer commentary that is integrated into the game, and appears as you play through the game.
Not belonging in group: Games where the behind-the-scenes commentary is presented as videos or documents outside the game itself.
Examples: Portal, Half-Life 2: Lost Coast, Half-Life 2: Episode One, Half-Life 2: Episode Two, Chronicles of Riddick [/Q --end JudgeDeadd wrote--]
Left 4 Dead
MZ per X (3017) on 7/12/2009 7:36 PM · Permalink · Report
Game Group Title: Games with paper doll inventory
Game Group Description: Games that visualize the clothing, armor and weapons of a character using a paper doll.
Not belonging in group: Games where the visualization of the character's gear just happens in-action, but not in the inventory itself.
Games that use a sketch or silhouette to visualize the character, but there's no change of it at equipping / un-equipping items.
Examples: Might and Magic VI --- Akuma: Demon Spawn --- Rage of Mages --- Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn --- The Elder Scrolls: Arena --- Revenant --- Avencast: Rise of the Mage
Counter-Examples: Might and Magic IX --- Diablo II --- Crusaders of Might and Magic
Indra was here (20755) on 7/12/2009 7:52 PM · Permalink · Report
On the job.
Indra was here (20755) on 7/12/2009 8:33 PM · Permalink · Report
Odd examples there. Not quite sure why you excluded Diablo 2 (seeing screenshot), while Akuma seems to have a very limited paper doll.
Indra was here (20755) on 7/12/2009 10:00 PM · Permalink · Report
Could we not have Akuma and limit it to complete paper dolls? :)
At least something like Lands of Lore.
MZ per X (3017) on 7/13/2009 6:30 AM · Permalink · Report
Could it be there's a misunderstanding of what a paper doll is? Please see here for many examples.
I wanna include games where the equipment is presented on-the-doll. :o) Lands of Lore just has a silhouette of a character with some item slots next to it, so that's IMO a counter-example.
Indra was here (20755) on 7/13/2009 6:49 PM · Permalink · Report
Hmm. My understanding of paper dolls may be a bit off. So much for the game description I made. :p
St. Martyne (3648) on 7/12/2009 10:38 PM · Permalink · Report
The coolest paper doll is in the Menzoberanzan/Ravenloft series of RPG games.
Eh.. just felt like saying that.
Indra was here (20755) on 7/23/2009 9:00 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Erkenbrand wrote--]Any news on the paper doll group? Anything I can do? [/Q --end Erkenbrand wrote--]Maybe another approver can help. My brain seems to see paper dolls as something different entirely...and refuses to budge in its (incorrect) definition. :p
Terok Nor (42009) on 7/16/2009 9:05 AM · Permalink · Report
On a note from Sciere, we should add a group for games set in historical medieval Europe - some of those have the Genre "Medieval/Fantasy" set currently, which is not correct, of course (medieval yes, Fantasy no).
Description should probably be similar to the Ancient Roman Era group. Anybody up to writing one?
Indra was here (20755) on 7/16/2009 10:32 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Terok Nor wrote--]On a note from Sciere, we should add a group for games set in historical medieval Europe - some of those have the Genre "Medieval/Fantasy" set currently, which is not correct, of course (medieval yes, Fantasy no). [/Q --end Terok Nor wrote--] Eh? Other than Medieval yes, Fantasy no, Historical Battle (specific/exact) no?
Terok Nor (42009) on 7/17/2009 7:23 AM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Indra Depari of 'da Clan Depari wrote--] Eh? Other than Medieval yes, Fantasy no, Historical Battle (specific/exact) no? [/Q --end Indra Depari of 'da Clan Depari wrote--]
Uhm, what?
That would kind of make sense if Medieval/Fantasy were separate genres, but they are not. Hence the problem.
Indra was here (20755) on 7/16/2009 10:50 PM · edited · Permalink · Report
Done. Pending approval.
Added some limitations which may or may not need discussing later. One other thing. Just had this curious thought regarding games that simply have a "fog of war" (permanently opened when explored). Doesn't that technically refer to automapping, or is my brain not functioning again?
Indra was here (20755) on 7/16/2009 11:18 PM · Permalink · Report
Done.
Something still feels a tad fishy.
Multimedia Mike (20664) on 7/17/2009 2:21 AM · Permalink · Report
Okay, so this is about the most confusing game group description ever. What about Resident Evil games as well as the original Legend of Zelda, and also The Guardian Legend?
Indra was here (20755) on 7/18/2009 12:15 AM · Permalink · Report
Told ya it smelt fishy. Point out which parts needs correcting and I'll be on it in a jiffy.
St. Martyne (3648) on 7/20/2009 5:36 AM · Permalink · Report
Games with classical music
Description: Rather than concerning itself with the traditions, methods and styles of the European classical music, this group primarily deals with the games that feature, in one form or another, actual renditions of compositions belonging to the so-called common practice period of the European art music, most (all?) of which are available in public domain.
Notes:
- No original compositions, even if they mimic styles of existing composers are allowed.
- No licensed modern day classical music is to be included in this group.
- For the purposes of clarity, only games with either a prominent and sustained performance (no 15-second loop emanating from the ingame radio receiver) or numerous instances (Peggle) are allowed.
- If the use of the composition(s) is uncredited, be sure to submit a trivia item.
- I advise you not to include blindly games, featuring Beethoven/Bach/Mozart/Schubert in the credits, until you're absolutely sure that those instances are significant enough for inclusion.
Pseudo_Intellectual (66362) on 7/20/2009 7:04 AM · Permalink · Report
I was going to suggest just using the composer credits to track these games until I hit your last point.
St. Martyne (3648) on 7/20/2009 8:13 AM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Pseudo_Intellectual wrote--]I was going to suggest just using the composer credits to track these games until I hit your last point. [/Q --end Pseudo_Intellectual wrote--]
Actually, I am having second thoughts about that. Unfortunately, it appears that the group is in no position to become cluttered, ever. So, perhaps, the threshold for music prominence in the game should be lowered.
Still, there are cases like Sherlock Holmes: Nemesis, which features a bunch of well-known names in the Thanks part of the credits list. Having not played the game, I'm at loss whether the actual music was used, or was this simply a case of developers acknowledging their inspirations. I do suspect the former, but you can never know.
Indra was here (20755) on 7/20/2009 9:14 AM · edited · Permalink · Report
Aye. If we can't use credits as a source, this would be difficult to follow-up. Unless Oleg actually played all of the games in this group. :p
[edit] Even more so, as many games that may use classical compositions here and there, usually don't bother to even credit the composers.
St. Martyne (3648) on 8/12/2009 5:29 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start St_Martyne wrote--]Games with classical music
Examples/candidates: Peggle, Hitman: Bloodmoney, Shadow Man, Last Express, Loom, GTA3, Saints Row 1/2, Eternal Sonata [/Q --end St_Martyne wrote--]
Add Little King Story to this list, probably the most classical of all gaming soundtracks ever done!
And, eh, where's the group, my approving friends? ;-)
Sciere (930490) on 7/20/2009 9:38 PM · edited · Permalink · Report
I've added this one, feel free to add more games once it's approved.
Word Construction games
Games where the major gameplay element is based around constructing words, a concept popularized by Scrabble. To play or progress in the game, players need to form words using a selection of letters. This group also contains games where compounds need to be formed using etymons. It does not include crossword puzzles, or games were words need to be guessed or missing letters need to be filled in.
Sciere (930490) on 7/20/2009 9:49 PM · Permalink · Report
Good idea, make room for Microsoft's Entertainment Packs too (SkiFree shouldn't be listed standalone for instance). So general application packages that also happen to include a game.
That means Pseudo Intellectual can now add the Excel flight simulator =)
Sciere (930490) on 7/20/2009 10:46 PM · edited · Permalink · Report
If we're consistent: yes.
Also: for these Operating Systems and such, make the exception of adding the titles of the included games as akas, to make sure they can still be found through the search engine. Otherwise they're nearly impossible to find back.
Sciere (930490) on 7/20/2009 11:07 PM · edited · Permalink · Report
Aha, I thought you had. I was just wondering because there are no akas pending for Windows XP.
Xoleras (66141) on 7/20/2009 11:48 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Kitsune Sniper wrote--] And I STAND BY MY COMMENT. [/Q --end Kitsune Sniper wrote--] The remaining ones are now pending. =)
For Stijn:
I'm adding the titles for XP when the ones for 2000 are approved, using them as a base.
For Minesweeper Windows, could you move shot 6 & 9 over to XP? (and remove the brackets then)
For Solitaire, theoretically shot 2 & 3, but those should probably be re-captured instead (those have the Windows bar at the bottom).
Kabushi, are you around? :)
Could you take a look about when Minröj became Röj? (old vs. current Swedish title for Minesweeper)
chirinea (47495) on 7/21/2009 7:38 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Kitsune Sniper wrote--] [Q2 --start Xoleras wrote--]Yeah, I already partially did this for Windows 2000. :)
And they were approved with e.g. an Augh. facepalms comment. =) [/Q2 --end Xoleras wrote--]And I STAND BY MY COMMENT. [/Q --end Kitsune Sniper wrote--] I second that.
Sciere (930490) on 7/20/2009 11:13 PM · edited · Permalink · Report
If they were never released standalone, they'll have to go eventually. We keep them on file for now to move over screenshots for a specific version for instance. Once the entry is fully documented at the OS games, submit a correction to have it rejected.
Xoleras (66141) on 7/20/2009 10:32 PM · edited · Permalink · Report
Q --start Sciere wrote-- [/Q --end Sciere wrote--] Actually, it should. But not as Win 3.x game, but as the Windows release from 2005.
Or not?
Sciere (930490) on 7/20/2009 11:09 PM · edited · Permalink · Report
The original 3.x Ski Free will eventually need to be removed as it was never released as a standalone, as far as I know. An Microsoft Entertainment Pack entry can be added to list the 3.x version. I could have added it as a separate platform and reject 3.x over time, but I already incorporated the re-release information in the description.
Pseudo_Intellectual (66362) on 7/21/2009 1:12 AM · edited · Permalink · Report
/Whoops, they'd since discussed SkiFree at great length/
Also, I didn't let a lack of applications support keep me from adding FT Nibbles 8)
vedder (70822) on 7/21/2009 12:55 PM · Permalink · Report
Ok, so let's change it to this:
Software bundles that feature games
Description: Software bundles that feature one or more games, but whose primary content is not a game.
Examples:
- Operating Systems that feature packed in games
- Encyclopedias that feature games
- Spreadsheet programs that feature bonus games
Examples/candidates: Windows 2000, Windows XP, Microsoft Office, Great British Golf: Middle Ages - 1940
Any objections?
Foxhack (32100) on 7/21/2009 5:28 PM · edited · Permalink · Report
I'd change "Encyclopedias" to "Educational Software" or "Reference Software", and "Spreadsheet" to "Business Suite".
Though this would mean that stuff like encyclopedias with quizzes ... could be entered into the database, wouldn't it?
Cantillon (77080) on 7/22/2009 3:22 PM · edited · Permalink · Report
Game Group Title: Pogonotrophous protagonists
Game Group Description: Games in which the main or major playable character (main protagonist) of the game does not shave some or all of his facial hear.
Limitations
- Games which allow the player to select from multiple characters should be excluded from this group, except under the rare circumstance where all selections are pogonotrophous.
Indra was here (20755) on 7/22/2009 6:00 PM · edited · Permalink · Report
And if you have the option to have a clean shave or bearded at any given time?
[edit] game groups are getting wierder by the minute... :p
DJP Mom (11333) on 7/22/2009 10:45 PM · edited · Permalink · Report
[Q --start lieven.dk wrote--]Game Group Title: Pogonotrophous protagonists
Game Group Description: Games in which the main or major playable character (main protagonist) of the game does not shave some or all of his facial hear. [/Q --end lieven.dk wrote--] Does anyone really believe that people will come looking for games specifically with bearded / moustached characters?? :)
Pseudo_Intellectual (66362) on 7/22/2009 11:07 PM · Permalink · Report
Can we keep our game groups to subjects returning more than three distinct Google returns? With "protagonists with facial hair" at least people who were looking for it could find it, but when the hair-splitting gets so tightly-focused as this I find it creepily fetishistic. I'd much sooner jettison the mullet group than usher this one in.
beetle120 (2415) on 7/23/2009 3:44 AM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Pseudo_Intellectual wrote--]Can we keep our game groups to subjects returning more than three distinct Google returns? With "protagonists with facial hair" at least people who were looking for it could find it, but when the hair-splitting gets so tightly-focused as this I find it creepily fetishistic. I'd much sooner jettison the mullet group than usher this one in. [/Q --end Pseudo_Intellectual wrote--] 4 Google results now thanks to this forum and in no dictionary anywhere.
Cantillon (77080) on 7/23/2009 8:48 AM · Permalink · Report
TheFreeDictionary: pogonotrophy
But it could also be called Protagonists with facial hair :p
Cantillon (77080) on 7/23/2009 8:53 AM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Pseudo_Intellectual wrote--]Can we keep our game groups to subjects returning more than three distinct Google returns? With "protagonists with facial hair" at least people who were looking for it could find it[/Q --end Pseudo_Intellectual wrote--] Of course it should be called "protagonists with facial hair", just couldn't resist naming it like this.
[Q --start Pseudo_Intellectual wrote--]
but when the hair-splitting gets so tightly-focused as this I find it creepily fetishistic.
[/Q --end Pseudo_Intellectual wrote--]
Pun intended?
[Q --start Pseudo_Intellectual wrote--] I'd much sooner jettison the mullet group than usher this one in. [/Q --end Pseudo_Intellectual wrote--] It's rather ironic that I had to look up the meaning of jettison in the dictionary. :p
Pseudo_Intellectual (66362) on 7/23/2009 5:44 PM · Permalink · Report
I can guarantee you that I take my beard more seriously than anyone else here (a 10-year growth!), but I still think that this group is a waste of time. But I'll give up opposition to the group with its new, more sensible name.
Monkey Island 2? Black Beard? Dark Forces 2? (only in the FMV cutscenes) Friendly Fire: Blood and Gore for mustaches... Daley Thompson's Olympic Challenge, Tapper, Gonzzalezz, Bio Menace (beard / mullet overlap), Sabre Wulf (the remake at least)... do sideburns count? At what point does 5 'o clock shadow qualify? And what about the protagonist's mustache in Gabriel Knight 3?
Indra was here (20755) on 7/23/2009 8:29 PM · Permalink · Report
I remember a time when "Games with chickens" was a questionable game group.
Times sure have changed. :p
MZ per X (3017) on 7/23/2009 9:21 PM · Permalink · Report
Game Group Title: TOMMI Winners
Game Group Description: Games that won the TOMMI, an award for highly innovative or otherwise outstanding German language games suitable for children. Games can be presented by its publishers and are then evaluated by a jury of subject matter experts. When passing this hurdle the games become official TOMMI nominees and are finally tested and voted upon by hundreds of kids across Germany/Austria/Switzerland.
Limitations None I can think of right now.
Game examples: See here for the winners 2008.
Being a nominee is a success as well, so shall we make a group for those, too? And shall we create a group for every year? If we do a winner's and a nominee's group per year, that would count up to 16 game groups at the moment (price is awarded since 2002). :o)
Sciere (930490) on 7/23/2009 9:33 PM · edited · Permalink · Report
I accidentally opened this up with my IGF winners. The reasoning behind the groups was that it covers a very specific type of games (independently developed and usually somewhat off the hook) that people may be interested in to track over the years. It's some sort of seal of quality in a piece of the market that's hard to dig through because of a lack of mainstream attention.
We're currently not documenting websites' or magazines' awards (apart from the trivia section), but if it's a well-established award for a very specific category of games, there can't be anything against it. The problem with TOMMI is that most of the winners/nominees appear to be very mainstream games (Settlers, Indiana Jones, Wii Fit, Mario Kart Wii), so I don't see the plus in nicely grouping these together. If it was a quality mark to pick out the under-reviewed "real" kids games, I would say otherwise. So a trivia item should be sufficient for these.
Xoleras (66141) on 7/23/2009 11:04 PM · Permalink · Report
dum-di-dum :P
MZ per X (3017) on 7/24/2009 9:45 AM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Sciere wrote--]We're currently not documenting websites' or magazines' awards (apart from the trivia section), but if it's a well-established award for a very specific category of games, there can't be anything against it. The problem with TOMMI is that most of the winners/nominees appear to be very mainstream games (Settlers, Indiana Jones, Wii Fit, Mario Kart Wii), so I don't see the plus in nicely grouping these together. If it was a quality mark to pick out the under-reviewed "real" kids games, I would say otherwise. So a trivia item should be sufficient for these. [/Q --end Sciere wrote--]Point taken, it would be absolute fallacy to spam the game groups with entries like "Semi-Professional Website's GotY-Award for RPG's 2008 nominee" or such. But let me explain why I think we should make an exception for TOMMI:
The games that are presented by the publishers must first go through an expert jury of more or less renowned game journalists, media scientists and youth protection people. Only if this jury thinks that the game is high-quality and family-friendly the game becomes a nominee. The final verdict is made by hundreds of kids that test and rate the nominees. This basically means that being a TOMMI-Winner is quite an achievement. A game has to not only convince an expert jury of its value for kids, it also has to convince the kids themselves to be fun. Heck, there are games that even advertise with being a nominee, see here for an example.
So, if Moby would introduce a game group for TOMMI nominees and winners, this would be a one-stop-shop for German-speaking parental visitors to find something valuable to play for their kiddies. And as some of the games are released in other countries, too, perhaps not only for German speakers. I don't know if there are similar awards in other countries, though.
But if you reject this, no problem. I will submit a trivia item for every game then and gather gazillions of points. :o)
MZ per X (3017) on 7/24/2009 5:51 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start beetle120 wrote--]I am still trying to fight for an awards section to be included to each game so you don't have to go though trivia items or add new groups for awards. [/Q --end beetle120 wrote--]Nice idea, if consequently implemented (every award shown on the game's page, every game shown on the award's page). That would save us a lot of trivia items, but is very low priority, I guess. :o)
Indra was here (20755) on 7/28/2009 6:23 PM · Permalink · Report
Here's a possibly useless game group, though the idea seems to be quite fascinating. Games that feature body dragging or the ability to pick-up dead bodies in a unique way (not just as a normal item). Remembered about this after just finishing my S.T.A.L.K.E.R. review.
Among others, S.T.A.L.K.E.R., Hitman, und Ultima VII.
If you're bored enough and have no life. Vote, yes!!!
Pseudo_Intellectual (66362) on 7/28/2009 6:48 PM · Permalink · Report
From Castle Wolfenstein: "You could push the bodies aside to hide them. If you didn't, an SS would come after you."
Zeppin (8408) on 7/28/2009 7:39 PM · edited · Permalink · Report
Unless I'm mistaken the Splinter Cell series features this throughout, though the bodies being dragged are more often unconscious than dead.
Indra was here (20755) on 7/28/2009 8:07 PM · Permalink · Report
Er. Should we limit this to humanoid-like creatures, or do animals/creatures also apply?
(thinking of hunting games).
Zeppin (8408) on 7/28/2009 8:18 PM · Permalink · Report
I imagine it would depend... In the case of humanoid-like creatures the dragging tends to serve a clearer, more consistent gamplay purpose. Namely, concealing bodies that would otherwise alert some hostile force, for example. In hunting games one is simply dragging off their kill. As this could be automated without a loss of a 'feature' or active gameplay element, I wouldn't include it.
Indra was here (20755) on 7/28/2009 8:42 PM · edited · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Agent 5 wrote--]As this could be automated without a loss of a 'feature' or active gameplay element, I wouldn't include it. [/Q --end Agent 5 wrote--] Neither does S.T.A.L.K.E.R. (er, then again, rarely use stealth kills), or Ultima VII (carry bodies and trade them for gold...roughly).
[edit] Actually I'm focusing on games where and when you carry bodies, you can't do anything else.
Zeppin (8408) on 7/28/2009 9:08 PM · Permalink · Report
Aha, if the (Or a) qualification for inclusion in the group is the presence of situations wherein carrying a body prevents the player from interacting beyond walking and the like then yes, I would include hunting games. It probably isn't what people would be looking for in checking the group, though. :P
Having never played Ultima VII I find that bodysnatching attribute a tad spooky.
Indra was here (20755) on 7/28/2009 9:15 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Agent 5 wrote--]Aha, if the (Or a) qualification for inclusion in the group is the presence of situations wherein carrying a body prevents the player from interacting beyond walking and the like then yes, I would include hunting games. It probably isn't what people would be looking for in checking the group, though. :P
Having never played Ultima VII I find that bodysnatching attribute a tad spooky. [/Q --end Agent 5 wrote--] Well, it is called body dragging, regardless of use. :) Depending on public demand, we probably could focus it on stealth settings, but we'd need a new title. Body hiding doesn't quite cut it. :p
For Ultima VII, actually you collect bodies of dead knights, carry them back to the morgue and get their ashes burned. Then collect the urns and make a lovely furniture pile.
Spenot (8592) on 8/5/2009 7:19 AM · edited · Permalink · Report
Isn't this mostly covered by the stealth tag? Other than Ultima, can't really think of another title which features this and doesn't have a stealth component. Some games which have this feature and haven't been mentioned: Thief, Commandos, Desperados, Silent Storm series.
And all this talk of bodies gave me a game group idea: Games with body-awareness.
Description: Games with first person view in which the protagonist can inspect his/her own body (by looking down).
Not-belonging: Games which don't feature first person view; games which feature both third person and first, but the body isn't visible in first; games which feature only hands wielding a weapon in first person.
Examples: Thief: Deadly Shadows, Trespasser (there's bound to be more, these two are only ones I can think of now)
Counter-Examples: Half-Life, Bioshock, Unreal Tournament, etc.
Indra was here (20755) on 8/9/2009 10:41 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Spenot wrote--]Isn't this mostly covered by the stealth tag? Other than Ultima, can't really think of another title which features this and doesn't have a stealth component. [/Q --end Spenot wrote--] Stealth usually focuses on the character's ability to hide from NPCs, rather than one's ability to cover one's tracks. Many Elder Scroll games have the body dragging feature too.
Spenot (8592) on 8/10/2009 11:22 AM · Permalink · Report
I thought those two things were intertwined, hiding bodies to not be detected by NPCs.
Elder Scrolls? As far as I know, only Oblivion had body dragging, and that was a more "look-at-us-we-have-a-shiny-physics-engine-you-can-move-stuff-weeee" ability.
Indra was here (20755) on 8/10/2009 12:08 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Spenot wrote--]I thought those two things were intertwined, hiding bodies to not be detected by NPCs.
Elder Scrolls? As far as I know, only Oblivion had body dragging, and that was a more "look-at-us-we-have-a-shiny-physics-engine-you-can-move-stuff-weeee" ability. [/Q --end Spenot wrote--] Oblivion only? My mistake then. Had this feeling you could drag bodies in Daggerfall. Oh, well.
Not quite sure if sneaking+hiding bodies is the combo for the stealth sub-genre. Would depend how many stealth games do not have a body hiding feature.
j.raido 【雷堂嬢太朗】 (95187) on 7/29/2009 1:35 AM · Permalink · Report
I already know this one will get shot down immediately, but after suffering through doing this multiple times I'm kind of curious as to how far the trend goes...
Game Group Title: Games with useless collectibles
Game Group Description: Games that give the player an optional task of collecting many (often hundreds) individually-useless items spread around the game world. Usually there is a reward for collecting many or all of them, with the game tracking progress and having a defined number. Exemplified by the hidden packages in Grand Theft Auto III and the various items of all kinds in Banjo-Kazooie.
Not belonging in group: Games where there are many things to collect, but that replenish in supply either when revisiting an area or eliminating foes, making it impossible to collect all of them.
Games where there are a set number of items to collect, but where the game provides no specific incentive to collect them all beyond scoring or power-up opportunities, and does not specifically track how many have been acquired.
Games where collection of specific items is tracked and rewarded, but where the number of items is small (less than a dozen or so per area).
Examples: Assassin's Creed -- Naruto: Rise of a Ninja -- Grand Theft Auto III -- Crackdown -- Banjo-Kazooie
Counter-Examples: Super Mario Bros. (limited number of coins, but no incentive beyond extra lives) -- Mirror's Edge, Afro Samurai (only a handful of tracked items in each area...3 and 5 in this case) -- Castlevania: Aria of Sorrow (tracked, but are individually useful and replenish)
j.raido 【雷堂嬢太朗】 (95187) on 7/29/2009 6:08 AM · Permalink · Report
Well, I'd just finished going through that Naruto game a second time because the first time I ended up missing one out of seven hundred coins, so naturally I'm a little antagonistic towards the idea right now. :)
It could definitely use a better title, but I'm also worried about the subjectivity of when a game would get its place in there. Would we put in any game with collectibles that only serve a periphery function, like unlocking a gallery mode or cheats, even if there aren't a huge number? What about something like Blast Corps, where clearing everything on each stage is a part of continuing through to the endgame?
I suppose what I'm trying to say is that I feel like the idea I've put forward is too vague, and I want someone else to refine it for me. :P
Indra was here (20755) on 7/29/2009 5:23 PM · Permalink · Report
Games with collectables should suffice for political correctness. The "useless" part can be well established implicetly through the description and limitatons, to avoid misinterpretations of your original intention.
Patrick Bregger (301035) on 8/5/2009 9:15 AM · Permalink · Report
Group name: Heartline's soccer manager series
Group description: The games in this group are managerial soccer simulations by Heartline Software GmbH and designed by the same people as the Bundesliga Manager series. Unlike other German soccer managers in these games the financial part is driven back and the focus lies on the team. They are based on the same engine but use different titles.
Included games: Kurt: Der Fußballmanager '99, Director of Football/Kicker Fußballmanager, Kicker Fußballmanager 2, Fußballmanager Fun, Fußballmanager Pro, Heimspiel 2006 - Der Fußballmanager
(The last four games are not added yet, but I'm working at Kicker Fußballmanager 2 at the moment. I will add the other three someday. "Heimspiel 2006 - Der Fußballmanager" was released after Heartline got renamed to "greencode Software GmbH".)
Sciere (930490) on 8/5/2009 2:55 PM · edited · Permalink · Report
Here's another one: Soccer Manager
Patrick Bregger (301035) on 8/5/2009 3:58 PM · Permalink · Report
Oh, I didn't know there was an international version of the Fußballmanager Fun. Well, less work for me I guess.
Havoc Crow (29859) on 8/12/2009 3:59 PM · edited · Permalink · Report
What's the difference between these two game groups?
Zeppin (8408) on 8/16/2009 6:12 AM · Permalink · Report
I could use a bit of help with this one. I noticed that we don't have a group for TrangsGaming's Cider wrapper which is (unfortunately) used to port a number of modern Mac games. I assumed this would have been redundant, as we have TransGaming on-file already as a developer, and they show up in the release information for most Cider games. One could simply check what games they've ported. But they formerly acted as an actual porting house, and so games such as SpyHunter, The Omega Stone, Law & Order: Dead on the Money, and 007: Nightfire show up despite not using Cider. Cider is exclusively Intel (Those games all use PowerPC processors) and tends to require a good deal of RAM, so clearly this would be a tad misleading. So it seems to need a group.
I assume the Game Group title would be TransGaming's Cider, though "Portability Engine" could be added to the end.
Game Group Description: TransGaming Technologies released their proprietary portability engine, Cider, an offshoot of Wine, in 2006. The engine is a wrapper which translates PC API calls from existing PC games, allowing them to run within the Mac OS X operating system on Intel based computers.
That seems to be all of the relevant information, though I'm sure it could stand to improve. I'm open to suggestions.
Examples of games which would be included in this group are... Prince of Persia: The Two Thrones - (Source), Puzzle Quest: Challenge of the Warlords - (Source), CSI: Hard Evidence - (Source), Jade Empire: Special Edition - (Source)
More information on Cider can be found at Wikipedia, Inside Mac Games, and TransGaming's site.
As an aside, I'm not a huge fan of Cider.
MegamanX64 (16003) on 8/23/2009 3:44 PM · Permalink · Report
The Ice Age Movies should get a group. There are already some games in the database, and I know of more games than these.
Multimedia Mike (20664) on 8/30/2009 10:18 PM · Permalink · Report
Oooh! I have a ridiculous one: "Game with Killer Snowmen"; these are the titles I know off the top of my head:
- Battletoads
- Snow Day: The GapKids Quest
- Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles II: The Arcade Game
Xoleras (66141) on 8/30/2009 11:39 PM · Permalink · Report
Great, another group where I can add Guild Wars. :P
beetle120 (2415) on 8/31/2009 3:24 AM · Permalink · Report
Dynamic in-game advertising:
In-game advertising that can be changed remotely by an advertising agency to be viewed by the player when playing the game. Publisher must be receiving money from the advertising agency so not used solely to increase the atmosphere of the game.
Examples: SWAT 4, Burnout Paradise, Trackmaina Nations.
Static in-game advertising:
In-game advertising programed into the game to be viewed by the player when playing the game. Publisher must be receiving money from the advertising agency/company so not used solely to increase the atmosphere of the game.
Examples: Zool, FIFA International Soccer, Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory
Sciere (930490) on 8/31/2009 6:15 AM · Permalink · Report
We already have the first: Games with dynamic advertisements
beetle120 (2415) on 8/31/2009 11:21 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Sciere wrote--]We already have the first: Games with dynamic advertisements [/Q --end Sciere wrote--] Maybe I should do some research before posting :).
Multimedia Mike (20664) on 8/31/2009 6:30 AM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start beetle120 wrote--] Static in-game advertising:
In-game advertising programed into the game to be viewed by the player when playing the game. Publisher must be receiving money from the advertising agency/company so not used solely to increase the atmosphere of the game. [/Q --end beetle120 wrote--] This goes back quite a while. I just played Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles II: The Arcade Game for the NES and noticed the Pizza Hut ads on the street. I can't remember if that was in the arcade original. Screenshots here and here (the latter screenshot also showcases killer snowmen, inspiring me to suggest that as a group all its own).
Spenot (8592) on 8/31/2009 1:30 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Multimedia Mike wrote--] [Q2 --start beetle120 wrote--] Static in-game advertising:
In-game advertising programed into the game to be viewed by the player when playing the game. Publisher must be receiving money from the advertising agency/company so not used solely to increase the atmosphere of the game. [/Q2 --end beetle120 wrote--] This goes back quite a while. I just played Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles II: The Arcade Game for the NES and noticed the Pizza Hut ads on the street. I can't remember if that was in the arcade original. Screenshots here and here (the latter screenshot also showcases killer snowmen, inspiring me to suggest that as a group all its own). [/Q --end Multimedia Mike wrote--] I was just searching recently if there was such a game-group, after I saw a Nokia ad in Ultimate Spider-Man. :))
Ace of Sevens (4479) on 9/12/2009 9:21 PM · Permalink · Report
it seems to have gotten diluted with every game ever based on a toy. I've submitted a purge. Maybe some people can help because there were some I didn't know much about.
Scaryfun (20370) on 9/20/2009 1:56 AM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Ace of Sevens wrote--]it seems to have gotten diluted with every game ever based on a toy. I've submitted a purge. Maybe some people can help because there were some I didn't know much about. [/Q --end Ace of Sevens wrote--] This exclusion seems obtuse to me - "Games based on toy or other licenses that are not intended primarily as ads. (If the developer paid for the right to use the property, it doesn't belong.)"
If the game is based around an existing product, isn't it advertising that product automatically? When the licensor enters into a contract with a developer to make games based on its product, it gets paid a fee but also knows its a form of free advertising when kids playing with its items in a virtual world will imprint the brand in their minds anyway for future possible purchases.
Ace of Sevens (4479) on 10/4/2009 1:23 AM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Scaryfun wrote--] If the game is based around an existing product, isn't it advertising that product automatically? When the licensor enters into a contract with a developer to make games based on its product, it gets paid a fee but also knows its a form of free advertising when kids playing with its items in a virtual world will imprint the brand in their minds anyway for future possible purchases. [/Q --end Scaryfun wrote--]
No, the business model is different. A poster advertising a a movie that teh developer pays to put up in a public place is an ad. The same poster sold at target is a product. If a game developer pays for the rights to use a license, they are trying to use the license to sell the game, not vice-versa. Advergames are generally given away free or for a pittance. The game is intended primarily to promote another product, not to be a profitable product in itself. There are borderline cases, but that doesn't mean we have to say every game with a product in it is an ad.
beetle120 (2415) on 8/31/2009 11:53 PM · Permalink · Report
Maybe I should stop suggesting groups and start creating them but I have 2 more sorta related ones...
Racing Track: --- (e.g Racing Track: Nürburgring)
Game that you can race on a simulation of the racetrack in/called ???
Limitations
- The track must be playable! If the Track only appears in a game but you can't race on it, the game should not be included in this game group.
- Only real tracks! No fictional tracks or lookalikes with similar sounding names accepted.
Related links Info about the ??? at Wikipedia
Location: --- (e.g Location: New York)
Game where part of the game is played in ???
Limitations
- The game must have part of the gameplay based in this location! If the location only mentioned or only has images shown of it on it, the game should not be included in this game group.
- Only real locations! No fictional locations or lookalikes with similar sounding names accepted.
Related links Info about the ??? at Wikipedia.
beetle120 (2415) on 9/7/2009 11:21 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Xoleras wrote--] But for Location, how much of the game must take place there? Just thinking of e.g. adventure games with many locations (e.g. flying around the world, a bit plays here, a bit there). [/Q --end Xoleras wrote--]
Can't be as bad as the automobile one, some games have upwards of 100 different cars.
Cantillon (77080) on 9/7/2009 11:28 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start beetle120 wrote--] [Q2 --start Xoleras wrote--] But for Location, how much of the game must take place there? Just thinking of e.g. adventure games with many locations (e.g. flying around the world, a bit plays here, a bit there). [/Q2 --end Xoleras wrote--] Can't be as bad as the automobile one, some games have upwards of 100 different cars. [/Q --end beetle120 wrote--] Indeed.
chirinea (47495) on 9/7/2009 7:46 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start beetle120 wrote--]Location: --- (e.g Location: New York)
Game where part of the game is played in ???
Limitations
- The game must have part of the gameplay based in this location! If the location only mentioned or only has images shown of it on it, the game should not be included in this game group.
- Only real locations! No fictional locations or lookalikes with similar sounding names accepted.
Related links Info about the ??? at Wikipedia. [/Q --end beetle120 wrote--]Just so everybody else knows, beetle had already suggested it a while ago.
beetle120 (2415) on 9/7/2009 11:18 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start chirinea wrote--] Just so everybody else knows, beetle had already suggested it a while ago. [/Q --end chirinea wrote--]
I have been wanting this for a long lime now but my idea has been evolving over time. Hopefully this will be the one that is implemented.
Cantillon (77080) on 9/8/2009 2:36 PM · edited · Permalink · Report
[Q --start beetle120 wrote--] I have been wanting this for a long lime now but my idea has been evolving over time. Hopefully this will be the one that is implemented. [/Q --end beetle120 wrote--] So, if a game takes place in London, it would go in the "Location: London" group.
If it takes place in a non-existing village in Ireland, would it be "Location: Ireland" ?
And what if it takes place in an existing, but small and unknown village in France? Would it be "Location: Small village" or "Location: France"?
vedder (70822) on 9/8/2009 3:06 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start lieven.dk wrote--] And what if it takes place in an existing, but small and unknown village in France? Would it be "Location: Small village" or "Location: France"? [/Q --end lieven.dk wrote--]
Location: France, until another game turns up that features the same obscure village, then it's justified to have a seperate group for the obscure village.
beetle120 (2415) on 9/8/2009 11:33 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start stvedder wrote--] [Q2 --start lieven.dk wrote--] And what if it takes place in an existing, but small and unknown village in France? Would it be "Location: Small village" or "Location: France"? [/Q2 --end lieven.dk wrote--]
Location: France, until another game turns up that features the same obscure village, then it's justified to have a seperate group for the obscure village. [/Q --end stvedder wrote--] As long as the games are unrelated to each other (i.e. not a sequel) I don't see a problem with that. If the real city has a population of over 1 million people then I think we should have that city listed even if there is only one game with it. What about historical cities that no longer exist? I am not sure if they should be listed.
Zeppin (8408) on 9/9/2009 12:59 AM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start beetle120 wrote--]If the real city has a population of over 1 million people then I think we should have that city listed even if there is only one game with it.[/Q --end beetle120 wrote--] That gets tricky. Would we track the actual city population, or metro as well? Pittsburgh, in Pennsylvania, has a direct population of 316,718 and a metro population of 2,462,571. Kraków, in Poland, has a direct population of 754,626 but a metro population of 1,264,322. A bit of a discrepancy. Plenty of cities do reach and easily surpass a million people living within the city itself, of course, such as Philadelphia(1,447,395), Munich(1,356,594), and New York City(8,363,710). It's simply a matter of how inclusionist we'd like to be.
beetle120 (2415) on 9/9/2009 3:13 AM · edited · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Agent 5 wrote--] [Q2 --start beetle120 wrote--]If the real city has a population of over 1 million people then I think we should have that city listed even if there is only one game with it. [/Q2 --end beetle120 wrote--] That gets tricky. Would we track the actual city population, or metro as well? Pittsburgh, in Pennsylvania, has a direct population of 316,718 and a metro population of 2,462,571. Kraków, in Poland, has a direct population of 754,626 but a metro population of 1,264,322. A bit of a discrepancy. Plenty of cities do reach and easily surpass a million people living within the city itself, of course, such as Philadelphia(1,447,395), Munich(1,356,594), and New York City(8,363,710). It's simply a matter of how inclusionist we'd like to be. [/Q --end Agent 5 wrote--] In Australia we don't track the actual city population, just the metro (this the first time I have come across these terms) as our cities are so spread out. I know that Melbourne (my home city) has almost 4 million people, living up to 40km away from the city center, but in the the city of Melbourne it would of been almost zero before the recent inner city developments. So I'll say that the go with the metro population.
Pseudo_Intellectual (66362) on 9/9/2009 4:38 PM · Permalink · Report
There've got to be some games set in Carthage or Troy or, who knows, Pompeii.
beetle120 (2415) on 9/13/2009 10:43 AM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Pseudo_Intellectual wrote--]There've got to be some games set in Carthage or Troy or, who knows, Pompeii. [/Q --end Pseudo_Intellectual wrote--] Yes, cities like those, I vote they should be included as long as there is more then one game set at that location.
Cantillon (77080) on 9/9/2009 3:32 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Spenot wrote--]What about futuristic settings? Say, a game taking place in London, in the year 3000? [/Q --end Spenot wrote--] I think it should be added. If the developers say it takes place in London, they probably will have done some effort to make it look like London (although with a futuristic touch).
beetle120 (2415) on 9/13/2009 10:44 AM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start lieven.dk wrote--] [Q2 --start Spenot wrote--]What about futuristic settings? Say, a game taking place in London, in the year 3000? [/Q2 --end Spenot wrote--] I think it should be added. If the developers say it takes place in London, they probably will have done some effort to make it look like London (although with a futuristic touch). [/Q --end lieven.dk wrote--] Agreed
Multimedia Mike (20664) on 9/2/2009 3:12 AM · Permalink · Report
There is the Bubble Bobble franchise of games. Is this the canonical (or original) example of this type of game? We don't seem to have a game group for clones of the style. At least one clone example is seen as a minigame in this game as illustrated in this screenshot. Surely, there are many more clones.
Somewhat tangential: There are snake games and light cycle games. These are effectively the same type of game but with different themes. Can they be combined somehow? The main reason I ask is that there is at least one example where the theme (ice skating) doesn't fit neatly into either group.
Pseudo_Intellectual (66362) on 9/2/2009 4:06 PM · Permalink · Report
Bubble Bobble: you're thinking of Puzzle Bobble, which is covered in the Puzzle Bubble/Bust-A-Move variants group.
Hey, I was pretty pleased at my isolating the distinguishing factor between snake and light bike games. They're not grouped by theme but by the rate of trail growth, which makes for a very different kind of game indeed (playing aggressively, to find the food, vs playing defensively, to avoid boxing oneself in)
Multimedia Mike (20664) on 9/3/2009 6:11 AM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Pseudo_Intellectual wrote--]Bubble Bobble: you're thinking of Puzzle Bobble, which is covered in the Puzzle Bubble/Bust-A-Move variants group.[/Q --end Pseudo_Intellectual wrote--] Ah, that's what I was missing. I am not very familiar with either series though I did just find an old copy of Bust-A-Move 4.
[Q --start Pseudo_Intellectual wrote--]Hey, I was pretty pleased at my isolating the distinguishing factor between snake and light bike games. They're not grouped by theme but by the rate of trail growth, which makes for a very different kind of game indeed (playing aggressively, to find the food, vs playing defensively, to avoid boxing oneself in) [/Q --end Pseudo_Intellectual wrote--] Thanks for clearing that up. Looks like all the variants I have encountered are snake games.
Ace of Sevens (4479) on 9/7/2009 8:22 PM · Permalink · Report
"Wolverine solo games"
He has enough game apart from the X-Men that i think he qualifies.
Maybe also "Games condemned by Jack Thompson"
Ace of Sevens (4479) on 9/12/2009 8:29 PM · Permalink · Report
I'd like to see a group of games with a clock that keeps going regardless of your actions. Real-time might not be a good name, as most of these games use an accelerated clock. It would include games like Dead Rising, Majora's Mask and Shenmue. It would exclude sports games and games that just have a time limit for completing tasks.
chirinea (47495) on 9/12/2009 9:03 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Ace of Sevens wrote--]I'd like to see a group of games with a clock that keeps going regardless of your actions. Real-time might not be a good name, as most of these games use an accelerated clock. It would include games like Dead Rising, Majora's Mask and Shenmue. It would exclude sports games and games that just have a time limit for completing tasks. [/Q --end Ace of Sevens wrote--]What about Prince of Persia?
Ace of Sevens (4479) on 9/12/2009 9:15 PM · Permalink · Report
I woudl include it because events are tied to the clock (those story bits that pop up), so it's not just a time limit.
Pseudo_Intellectual (66362) on 9/13/2009 9:39 AM · Permalink · Report
Is this then suggesting games with a complete and ongoing day/night cycle?
Naturally the first titles that come to mind (of a more general case, where the game clock ticks ever on without necessarily driving light, weather etc) are MUD-like text adventures (Madness and the Minotaur, Knight Orc, Border Zone) where sometimes the monster you type in the attack command at is no longer still in the same room as you by the time you finish typing the command.
Ace of Sevens (4479) on 9/13/2009 1:18 PM · Permalink · Report
Day/night cycles might be good for a separate group, but I would only want them listed if it matters what day it is. Monsters that move around when you aren't entering anything just mean the game isn't turn-based. I was looking for games with events that happen according to a schedule that isn't tied to player actions.
Spenot (8592) on 9/13/2009 1:18 PM · Permalink · Report
Shadow of Destiny would also fit into this group.
Ace of Sevens (4479) on 9/12/2009 9:08 PM · Permalink · Report
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Game_Plus
This group contains games where after you complete the main story, you are given the option of restarting the game based on your existing save data. This could mean that character-building data or items you collected carry over, or just that new items or areas are available. Examples: Parasite Eve, Silent Hill, Resident Evil, Chrono Trigger, Legend of Zelda.
Ace of Sevens (4479) on 9/13/2009 7:44 PM · Permalink · Report
I'd like to see games with an in-game screenshot function and games with in-game movie recording. I'm not quite sure how to define this, though.
General Error (4329) on 9/14/2009 8:07 PM · Permalink · Report
My game group request:
<hr />Mainframe games
This game group encompasses all games that were originally created on a mainframe computer, the only computer available before the mid/late 1970s, when the first home computers were released.
Mainframe were massive monsters that were installed in many universities and research facilities in the 1960s and 1970s. They belong to the earliest digital computers. Although most mainframes were incompatible, and the number of computers for any given mainframe limited, the distribution was quite high as many mainframes had the ability to connect to remote terminals, thus giving many people the opportunity to share the mainframe's clock cycles.
Mainframes were also used for developing games, and these games belong to the earliest computer games and influenced many people who later started developing games professionally. Mainframe games often were very popular, and operators often deleted games, as the demand for them often used up a significant amount of processing time.
Some genres were initially invented on mainframes: The typical non-arcade genres (simulations, strategy games, adventures and role-playing games) were at first only available for mainframe users.
Examples for mainframe games: Spacewar!, Hunt the Wumpus, Colossal Cave Adventure, Zork, DND, Rogue.
<hr />Is this enough to create the group?
Ace of Sevens (4479) on 9/15/2009 12:03 AM · Permalink · Report
That sounds like it should be a new platform rather than a group.
General Error (4329) on 9/15/2009 8:01 AM · Permalink · Report
Yes, I remember there was some talk about adding a mainframe platform some years ago, but it was dismissed because the technical specs for mainframes are too hard to define.
But I think it would be essential for a historical game database to have the means to identify old mainframe classics, that's why I propose it.
C'mon approvers! Whatcha say?
KazikluBey (181) on 10/2/2009 6:48 PM · edited · Permalink · Report
I'm sure I saw a Thread 3 just a little while ago, but now I can't see it, so here goes:
Group name: "Game Engine: Clausewitz"
Group Description: "The Clausewitz engine (named after the military theorist Carl von Clausewitz) is the replacement to the older Europa engine, both developed by Paradox Interactive. The most visible change to players is the move to 3D graphics. It was first used in Europa Universalis III (2007)."
Games to include:
"Europa Universalis III" plus the expansions "Napoleon's Ambition" and "In Nomine" as well as "Europa Universalis III: Complete"
"Europa Universalis: Rome" plus the expansion: "Vae Victis"
"Hearts of Iron III"
As well as any future full games and expansions from Paradox's internal development team for several years, I suspect.
While we're at it, Hearts of Iron needs to be removed from the "Europa Universalis series" group. The only thing it shares with Europa Universalis is the engine, and it already belongs to the Game Engine: Europa group, so that's covered. The only alternative to removing (other than inaction, of course) it would be to add all the other Europa engine games, but that would be silly.
Zeppin (8408) on 10/2/2009 7:57 PM · Permalink · Report
The new game group, Game Engine: Clausewitz, has been submitted and is awaiting another approver's overview. In researching this I discovered that Victoria 2 is currently in production, for which I am impossibly excited.
I've posted a request to have Hearts of Iron removed from the Europa Universalis group in the approver's forum and it should be taken care of rather quickly. Thank you for pointing this out.
Zeppin (8408) on 10/3/2009 9:46 PM · Permalink · Report
The game group Game Engine: Clausewitz has been added.
Hearts of Iron has also been removed from the Europa Universalis series group. This inadvertently led to the correction of one of our alternate titles, as well.
Pseudo_Intellectual (66362) on 10/7/2009 5:01 PM · Permalink · Report
Game groups have in the past been used as the leading edge of a "wedge" leading to later changes, including platforms and tech specs. So I say: go for it!
(Providing we can achieve consensus on what constitutes a "mainframe" -- minicomputers, PLATO?)