Poll: Should limited editions be integrated?

Klaster_1 (57612) on 1/24/2011 11:49 AM · edited · Permalink · Report

My opinion: links section in rap sheet and special flag for such an editions when adding new games; filter while searching or browsing; the rest should be left as it is now.

P.S.: I've got deja vu writing this message. Ahh...

Unicorn Lynx (181775) on 1/24/2011 11:51 AM · Permalink · Report

Yes, there's no point in a separate entry.

vedder (70822) on 1/24/2011 11:59 AM · edited · Permalink · Report

All we need is a textbox for each release info in which the extras can be noted. No need for separate entries.

Crawly (1417) on 1/24/2011 3:25 PM · Permalink · Report

[Q --start vedder wrote--]All we need is a textbox for each release info in which the extras can be noted. No need for separate entries. [/Q --end vedder wrote--] Or even with the current features, I think it might be enough to just add something like "This game has a special edition, which includes an additional scenario" to the description, along with the additional release info.

Patrick Bregger (301035) on 1/24/2011 4:20 PM · edited · Permalink · Report

No, every release with significant in-game differences should stay a separate entry in my opinion. Also special releases with other games as bonus content. All editions with only additional artbooks and stuff could be integrated into the rap sheet but more detailed than our current release info allows.

Edit: or what Klaster_1 said.

Starbuck the Third (22606) on 1/24/2011 7:48 PM · Permalink · Report

[Q --start Patrick Bregger wrote--]No, every release with significant in-game differences should stay a separate entry in my opinion. [/Q --end Patrick Bregger wrote--]

What would you define as being 'significant game diferences'?

I would be very in favour of either a new section in the game entry sidebox for any extras or a footnote at the bottom of the game description. If those failed, then I'd say a link to the Collectors Ed.

Just seems pointless having a 2 seperate entries for something that is, for all intents and purposes, the same game.

Patrick Bregger (301035) on 1/24/2011 8:09 PM · Permalink · Report

Additional levels, mostly. Small stuff like more cars, costumes or weapons are not significant in my eyes.

Rola (8483) on 1/25/2011 12:35 AM · Permalink · Report

How about older games that were later re-released on CD? Those "remastered" editions often added digital speech, redbook audio, animated cutscenes etc. ...quite a lot for me, and yet they're not featured as separate entries?

What would be enough to warrant a separate entry?

formercontrib (157510) on 1/25/2011 1:19 AM · edited · Permalink · Report

[Q --start Rola wrote--]How about older games that were later re-released on CD? Those "remastered" editions often added digital speech, redbook audio, animated cutscenes etc. ...quite a lot for me, and yet they're not featured as separate entries? [/Q --end Rola wrote--]

Main problem seems still to be:

1. Game split: A lot of things needs to be moved after the split (release info, covers, trivia etc. Some info needs to be part of both entries, some info only part of the one or the other. A lot of work and potential for errors, Admins/Approvers "fear" it too much.

2.) Reliable info, what exactly was changed/improved/added on the CD release. A lot of work often for contributors too, looks like most contributors "fear" this.

3.) The combination of 1.)+2.) - after all the years, people don't own/play/remember the games exactly anymore, what can result in 2 "bad entries" afterwards, instead of 1 not perfect entry so far.

Overall, those games - most of them - really require splitting - i'm looking forward to it, want to see this too more often. That's not the question, the main question is who ignores the "fear" and does a beautiful and complete research and contribution for it?

Rola (8483) on 1/27/2011 7:45 AM · Permalink · Report

My point was just the opposite: if we have all of this as one entry, then special editions don't deserve separate entries either. Just list the extras added in given edition.

Pseudo_Intellectual (66362) on 1/25/2011 1:30 AM · Permalink · Report

Ideally I'd like to see all versions of the same game under the same roof. If some versions look and sound better I have no problem with that. If Spectrum and Amiga versions of the same game can live in the same entry, than everything else is just a matter of degrees.

Dealbreakers might include one version being 2D and the other 3D; one being an adventure game and the other being a strategy game.

Игги Друге (46653) on 1/27/2011 1:28 AM · Permalink · Report

[Q --start Pseudo_Intellectual wrote--]If Spectrum and Amiga versions of the same game can live in the same entry, than everything else is just a matter of degrees. [/Q --end Pseudo_Intellectual wrote--] Not to mention that we've never split games into Amiga 500 and Amiga 1200 editions, even though they were released in different boxes with different graphics.

Indra was here (20755) on 1/25/2011 6:14 AM · Permalink · Report

[Q --start Rola wrote--]How about older games that were later re-released on CD? Those "remastered" editions often added digital speech, redbook audio, animated cutscenes etc. ...quite a lot for me, and yet they're not featured as separate entries?

What would be enough to warrant a separate entry? [/Q --end Rola wrote--] Personal fanboi sentiments aside, probably not, mate. Like Pseudo said, it's still same bloke wearing different clothes. Can't say he's Paul if it's still Bob. Providing different wardrobes for his seasonal tastes is a bit off.
Now that's an odd analogy.

formercontrib (157510) on 1/25/2011 10:03 AM · Permalink · Report

I clearly go with Rola here. It's fact that we have, not only a few games, that have it's own entry only because for example you get a .pdf-walkthrough, or only because a printed 5-paged hint book or a paper map, 3 post cards or trading cards. In comparison to many enhanced CD-ROM releases, mainly from the DOS era, that add enhanced graphics, digitized voice output, additional video cutscenes, improved user interfaces ?!

Those enhanced CD-ROM versions come with additional in-game content, that often give users a new gaming pleasure, often also documented in professional reviews with higher rankings too, what's the pleasure for gaming of having an .pdf-walkthrough for example?

It's often a thin line, displayed in the fact, that even in the approver forum it comes again and again to threads "New Game entry, or not??". The policy here isn't clear enough, because it can be often only cleared individual.

Finally, this whole situation is for me one more of those "Let's wait, hope and see, what will be done, hopefully sooner than later, by GameFly" for the site. At the moment the whole database is too uncomfortable and limited in handling. Maybe this will change some day ... i would prefer for now no botch jobs, that requires now a lot of work, and some day they're implemented as easy going.

Indra was here (20755) on 1/25/2011 10:54 AM · Permalink · Report

Yeah, these talks are pretty much useless anyways. Since it's not really something we can get done ourselves.

Pseudo_Intellectual (66362) on 1/25/2011 4:34 PM · edited · Permalink · Report

Those enhanced CD-ROM versions come with additional in-game content, that often give users a new gaming pleasure, often also documented in professional reviews with higher rankings too

Edit: Ahah, I said something else here. Ah, that different platforms' versions are able to get rated differently, so we already accommodate those differences.

DJP Mom (11333) on 1/26/2011 6:51 AM · edited · Permalink · Report

(closed Pseudo's italics)

j.raido 【雷堂嬢太朗】 (95185) on 1/26/2011 7:15 AM · Permalink · Report

Q --start DJP Mom wrote-- [/Q --end DJP Mom wrote--]This bug really needs to get fixed. Either that or Indra and Pseudo need to learn how to close HTML tags. :P

Pseudo_Intellectual (66362) on 1/24/2011 5:42 PM · Permalink · Report

To most of us it's database bloat; I think that when you look up a game under its entry you should have access to information about all its releases (including in compilations). Save new entries for new games. Documented games already have entries; everything further is just packaging or bonus content details.

Klaster_1 (57612) on 1/24/2011 5:51 PM · Permalink · Report

I understand the point, but what will you do with two regional specific compilations, different enough to be separate items, but without same initial release to be listed under? They will still "bloat".

Partial separation might tangle the situation: look in the rap sheet for package variations and in search for something more complex, to comparison with current search only.

Pseudo_Intellectual (66362) on 1/24/2011 6:48 PM · Permalink · Report

I'm okay with compilations also being their own entries; it's the limited editions I really chafe under.

vedder (70822) on 1/24/2011 7:19 PM · edited · Permalink · Report

I don't care about compilations at all, but I don't mind them being documented as they are currently. With the exception of downloadable compilation releases. We should ignore those all together or Steam is going to kill us.

Indra was here (20755) on 1/24/2011 7:27 PM · edited · Permalink · Report

One of these days the DLCs will only cost a buck or less with less than 10 MB of party balloon hat content and it'll qualify as a separate game entry based on past precedents. Can't say I didn't warn ya all.

Pseudo_Intellectual (66362) on 1/24/2011 9:10 PM · Permalink · Report

That or we learn to interface with Valve directly so their releases can be automatically fed into our database. But we could say that for most of the major publishers: we want to document your hard work and help give it a long tail; help us make it easier.

Klaster_1 (57612) on 1/24/2011 12:10 PM · Permalink · Report

Do we separate special compilations and one game editions in this discussion? Which of them should be integrated and where?

Indra was here (20755) on 1/24/2011 12:56 PM · Permalink · Report

[Q --start Klaster_1 wrote--]Do we separate special compilations and one game editions in this discussion? Which of them should be integrated and where? [/Q --end Klaster_1 wrote--]Yes, they should. How, no idea (but I'm sure we could come up with a framework if this discussion continues). MG could really use a hide box somewhere in the main game rapsheet. Actually, a lot of boxes for that matter. Actually...nevermind. :p

Klaster_1 (57612) on 1/24/2011 1:11 PM · Permalink · Report

I remember seeing schema for such things, was it probably yours?

Indra was here (20755) on 1/24/2011 4:45 PM · edited · Permalink · Report

Probably not. Then again, we keep on proposing the same old stuff each year round. It's beginning to feel like TV re-runs. :p

R H (3) on 1/24/2011 5:25 PM · Permalink · Report

Doesnt it depend from game to game? Sometimes a limited edition is the same game just in a different package and maybe a music cd etc added, sometimes the game content is different. Should be maintained individually. What was the last big change /new feature on MG btw. which was implented after a poll?

Indra was here (20755) on 1/24/2011 7:24 PM · Permalink · Report

[Q --start R H wrote--]Doesnt it depend from game to game? Sometimes a limited edition is the same game just in a different package and maybe a music cd etc added, sometimes the game content is different. [/Q --end R H wrote--] Well basically, if the difference can be identified in a single paragraph or so, it might warrant some sort of integration.

Kartanym (12418) on 1/30/2011 4:29 AM · Permalink · Report

I think there's so many 'limited' and 'special' editions of game these days, it makes sense to integrate it into one entry.

Indra was here (20755) on 1/30/2011 6:29 AM · Permalink · Report

Any solid reasoning as to why it some shouldn't be integrated? Can't think of any.

Klaster_1 (57612) on 1/30/2011 6:56 AM · Permalink · Report

It would be implemented in million years?

Indra was here (20755) on 1/30/2011 7:26 AM · Permalink · Report

[Q --start Klaster_1 wrote--]It would be implemented in million years? [/Q --end Klaster_1 wrote--]That would be fast by our standards. :p

Kaminari (1081) on 2/8/2011 1:54 PM · Permalink · Report

So I take it's what's delaying the validation of Mass Effect 2 PS3?

The MG rules behind what's a straight port and what's an original version had always got me baffled anyway. What's the point of splitting entries when the differences are fundamentally negligible? I can understand the need to make a distinction between 2D/3D titles or RPG/digital comics (Alnam no Kiba comes to mind).

But as long as it's essentially the same game with the same underlying gameplay basics, I couldn't care less if one version has automapping and another one hasn't. You don't make Snatcher PC-88 and Snatcher PC Engine different entries just because the later has an exclusive final act.

My two eurocents...

Patrick Bregger (301035) on 2/8/2011 4:10 PM · edited · Permalink · Report

I am not even close to being an PS3 approver but that's surely not what's delaying anything. As far as I know it includes all DLC so it is a new game entry, no question about it.

Edit: I just saw this: [q]You don't make Snatcher PC-88 and Snatcher PC Engine different entries just because the later has an exclusive final act.[/q] Please explain. In my eyes this is so obviously the forcing reason for having two game entries. I can't see why you say it shouldn't.

Edit 2: Oh, I see. We don't have two entries. We don't even have a single mentioning of an additional act. Well, we should.

Pseudo_Intellectual (66362) on 2/8/2011 6:19 PM · Permalink · Report

Mention it, we should. Split it... unnecessary if the difference is mentioned.

Pseudo_Intellectual (66362) on 2/8/2011 6:19 PM · Permalink · Report

Talking like Yoda... in moderation only.

Lain Crowley (6629) on 2/8/2011 6:40 PM · Permalink · Report

It's because the PS3 version starts with an interactive motion comic that retells ME1 and lets you make the decisions that you could have had ME1 been released on the PS3. Personally I would have added it as a small addition to the existing game description, but I'll pass that decision on to someone else.

Crawly (1417) on 2/8/2011 7:33 PM · Permalink · Report

[Q --start Lain Crowley wrote--]It's because the PS3 version starts with an interactive motion comic that retells ME1 and lets you make the decisions that you could have had ME1 been released on the PS3. Personally I would have added it as a small addition to the existing game description, but I'll pass that decision on to someone else. [/Q --end Lain Crowley wrote--] It appears that the interactive comic has to be downloaded from the PlayStation Store, it's not available on the game disc. http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Mass_Effect:_Genesis

Patrick Bregger (301035) on 2/8/2011 7:53 PM · edited · Permalink · Report

If it is downloadable in-game (!) content it is a free DLC (see Zaeed) and gets its own entry. How "included" DLCs influence the question "new game entry or not" is not really explored yet but personally I don't think free DLCs count (if they are free on all released platforms).

But since the page states that the DLC will eventually also be freely available for PC and Xbox I vote for "same entry".

Lain Crowley (6629) on 2/8/2011 8:17 PM · Permalink · Report

It can't exactly be downloaded from the PSN. It's part of the cerberus network, which is a bunch of free DLC that's included with every new copy of the game. I was under the impression it was on the disc, though, so I was wrong there.

Also the PS3 version includes, for free, most of the paid DLC currently released for the 360 and PC, including Kasumi and Lair of the Shadow Broker.

Kaminari (1081) on 2/12/2011 8:08 PM · Permalink · Report

The Cerberus Pack is NOT part of the game. You get a code with every new copy of the game which allows you to download it from the PSN.

Seriously, who decides what's a new entry and what's not, and on which criteria? This discussion is obviously going nowhere, despite the poll sending a clear message to the admins. As a result, I'll remove my submission.

Sciere (930490) on 2/12/2011 8:43 PM · edited · Permalink · Report

It's often a case of personal judgement, whether there is enough to make a new game entry out of it, because it's often different for each game. I submitted a new game entry with the description below. I don't own it, so feel free to pass on a message if amends are needed.

Mass Effect 2 is the first game in the series to appear on a PlayStation console and it was released almost a year after the versions for other platforms. The game comes on a single Blu-ray and has additional, previously released content included on the disc. It contains:

Mass Effect 2 (base game)
Firewalker Pack (DLC)
Kasumi: Stolen Memory (DLC)
Lair of the Shadow Broker (DLC)
Overlord (DLC)
Blood Dragon Armor (new costume through DLC for Dragon Age: Origins)
A single-use code to access the online Cerberus Network, where further DLC can be downloaded for free, such as Zaeed: The Price of Revenge or Normandy Crash Site

The included DLC packs introduce new missions, an expanded storyline, and new vehicles, weapons and items. Next to a tweaked engine for more graphical polish, there is an additional introduction. Players of the original Mass Effect could carry over a number of choices from the first title using a savegame. These involve events such as a romantic interest, a sacrifice near the end of the game, the main character's appearance and the statistics that had been built up. To resolve that and to bring PS3 owners up to speed with the storyline of the original game, a new chapter called Genesis was added. After determining the gender and look for Commander Shepard and playing the main introduction, Genesis is accessed. It is presented as an interactive comic where players get to relive the events of the first game and also determine the six major decisions that are carried over to the second game.

Starbuck the Third (22606) on 2/8/2011 9:24 PM · Permalink · Report

Mass Effect 2 on the PS3 has not confirmed my hatred of exclusives, especially timed ones, precisely because of getting the being able to get DLC not only on disc, but for free. But I would say that exclusiveness is for another thread another time.