Forums > MobyGames > Commodore 16 & plus/4
piltdown_man (236065) on 9/22/2011 7:32 AM · Permalink · Report
Is it likely that either platform will be added to the database at some point?
I've got a couple of old cartridge games that work on either of these platforms. I picked them up a while back 'coz they looked interesting but as I can't play them they're going to be disposed of. Is there any point in documenting them for later?
Rola (8483) on 9/22/2011 8:14 AM · Permalink · Report
I'd like to personally thank once again all contributors who submit info about those 20+ year-old games/platforms. While there are plenty of websites dealing with the latest releases, MobyGames appealed to me as a gaming history database.
If you need people to spam our admins regarding adding old platforms, I'm your man.
Patrick Bregger (301024) on 9/22/2011 8:18 AM · Permalink · Report
The words "implementing new (...)" and "soon" do not compute around here.
Joke aside, on the approver wiki the technical specifications, which are a must for implementing a new platform, are apparently completely filled out. Judging from past experiences all we need to do now is to whine constantly until Corn Popper is fed up with it and puts it live.
Unfortunately he has a long breath.
Corn Popper (69027) on 9/22/2011 8:53 AM · Permalink · Report
Maybe after I get back to the states from the Ukraine next month I'll look into adding some. Give me a list of priority platforms that have the specs mapped out and that have limited games first.
Unicorn Lynx (181775) on 9/22/2011 9:26 AM · edited · Permalink · Report
Sharp x68000! Only a few exclusives (but some really important ones!); much of the library overlaps with PC-98, consoles and arcades. Most importantly, you promised to add it 2 years ago! This one has to go first!
Specs are in the wiki!
Or here:
CPU / Clock speed: X68000 models: Motorola 68000 / 10 MHz XVI models: Motorola 68000 / 16 MHz X68030 models: Motorola 68030 / 25 MHz
ROM: 1 MiB (128KB BIOS,768KB Character Generator)
RAM: 1-4 MiB (Expandable up to 12 MB) VRAM: 512 KiB graphic + 512 KiB text + 32KiB sprite VRAM SRAM: 16 KiB Static RAM
Screen Resolutions: 256 x 240 256 x 256 512 x 240 512 x 256 512 x 512 640 x 480 768 x 512 1024 x 1024 Maximum colors on screen: 65536 Sprite count: 128 sprites, 32 sprites per scanline Sprite Size: 8 x 8 or 16 x 16 Sprite colors: 16 colors per palette, selectable from 16 palettes
Graphics Hardware: Hardware scrolling, priority control, super-impose
Sound chips: Yamaha YM2151 (eight FM stereo channels) OKI MSM6258 (one 4 bit PCM mono channel)
Expansion: 2 card slots (4 on Pro models) I/O Ports: 2 MSX compatible joystick ports Audio IN / OUT Stereo scope/3D goggles port TV/monitor Control RGB/NTSC Video Image I/O Expansion (2 slots) External FDD (up to 2) SASI/SCSI (depending on model) RS232 serial port Parallel port Headphone and microphone ports.
Floppy Drives: Two soft-eject 5.25 floppy drives, 1.2MB each Two 3.5 floppy drives, 1.44MB each (compact models)
Hard Disk: 20-80MB SASI/SCSI (depending on model)
Operating Systems: Human68k (MS DOS-alike developed by Hudson), SX-Windows GUI
Corn Popper (69027) on 9/22/2011 10:16 AM · Permalink · Report
when I say specs.. I mean as in the packaging - how were the games packaged... things that pertain to the games really not really the hardware of the system.... that'll be later. When you submit a game here just think of all the tech specs you fill out and cover art stuff
Unicorn Lynx (181775) on 9/22/2011 11:10 AM · Permalink · Report
when I say specs.. I mean as in the packaging - how were the games packaged...
As far as I know, all those games were packaged in boxes... what else could there be? They were on cassette tapes, floppy disks, and catrdiges - all packaged in boxes. Or did you mean the media? This I put into the specs, of course.
Other than that, what else is tech specs? RAM, media, graphic modes, sound modes, input devices, system requirements... all is in there.
Rola (8483) on 9/22/2011 11:19 AM · edited · Permalink · Report
I guess Corn Popper means "give me processed info of what I should put into database regarding tech-specs section, so available media and possible system requirements, supported control devices, video modes etc.", because MobyGames does not provide technical backgrounds for listed platforms. That's why he mentioned game packaging (and manuals), as this is where we find "requires 128kB expansion" and stuff like this. He needs to single out all possible options to build all those checkboxes & lists we see in tech-specs section for a given game entry.
Say, if the console came with a gamepad and that's it, there's nothing to work with. However if games for the given microcomputer could use its keyboard and also digital joystick, gamepad and lightgun, we have:
Supported devices:
- keyboard
- joystick (digital)
- gamepad
- lightgun
Unicorn Lynx (181775) on 9/22/2011 11:56 AM · edited · Permalink · Report
Oh, okay. Maybe this is better:
SHARP X68000
Minimum OS required: Human 68k (MS DOS-alike developed by Hudson) v.2.0, v.3.0; SX-Window interface (required by a few games)
Minimum Supported System:
X68000 model (Motorola 68000 / 10 MHz, 1-2 MB RAM)
XVI model (Motorola 68000 / 16 MHz, 1-2 MB RAM, SX-Window interface)
X68030 model (Motorola 68030 / 25 MHz, 4 MB RAM, SX-Window interface)
Minimum RAM required: 1 - 4 MB
Media Type: - Floppy disk: 5.25 inch, 1.2MB; 3.5 inch, 1.44MB
Video modes supported: 15 KhZ, 24 KhZ, 31 KhZ
Resolutions supported: 256 x 240, 256 x 256, 288x224, 336x448, 384x256, 448x240, 512 x 240, 512 x 256, 512 x 512
Sound devices supported::
Yamaha YM2151 (eight FM stereo channels)
OKI MSM6258 (one 4 bit PCM mono channel)
Input devices supported: keyboard, joystick, mouse, trackball, Cyber Stick (CZ-8NJ2)
If it's better, I'll try to rearrange the others like this as well.
Patrick Bregger (301024) on 9/22/2011 12:02 PM · Permalink · Report
I think he also needs a start and, if applicable, end year for each tech spec.
Unicorn Lynx (181775) on 9/22/2011 2:35 PM · Permalink · Report
It's 1987 for X68000 model, 1991 for XVI, and 1993 for X68030.
RAM: 1987 for 1 MB, 1989 for 2MB, and 1993 for 4MB.
SX-Window interface since 1990.
That's all I found, but I think that should be enough.
Trypticon (11024) on 9/22/2011 1:18 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Unicorn Lynx wrote--]Oh, okay. Maybe this is better:
SHARP X68000
Video modes supported:: 256 x 240, 256 x 256, 512 x 240, 512 x 256, 512 x 512
[/Q --end Unicorn Lynx wrote--]
It's probably going to be a lot more resolutions, because some games use some rather unusual ones, kinda like the Ps1, as seen on this list
The more interesting/important of video modes are imho the Khz settings (15/24/31), which is something that also applies to some FM-Towns games, since the arcade ports often allow to choose.
Unicorn Lynx (181775) on 9/22/2011 2:40 PM · Permalink · Report
Added resolutions and KhZ settings.
Игги Друге (46653) on 9/22/2011 11:05 PM · Permalink · Report
I think when I was in Akihabara X68000 games tended to be packaged into big, soft boxes that opened like a book – a bit like 1980 vintage video cassette covers.
Trypticon (11024) on 9/25/2011 2:39 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Corn Popper wrote--]when I say specs.. I mean as in the packaging - how were the games packaged... things that pertain to the games really not really the hardware of the system.... that'll be later. When you submit a game here just think of all the tech specs you fill out and cover art stuff [/Q --end Corn Popper wrote--]
Here's a basic suggestion to cover the platforms in the topic:
Commodore 264 (covers C16, C116, Plus/4),
Minimum RAM required:
16 KB
32 KB
64 KBNumber of Players supported: 1, 1-2, 1-4, 1-15, 2, 2-5
Media Type: Cartridge, Cassette Tape, Floppy Disc, Type-in, Download
Input Devices supported : Joystick (Digital), Keyboard
Multiplayer Options
Hot Seat
Same/Split-Screen MultiplayerMiscellaneous Attributes: Password (?)
Additional Player options may be added later, same as input devices (e.g."Light Pen". Officially available, but I don't know if it was officially supported by games) .
Unicorn Lynx (181775) on 9/22/2011 9:34 AM · Permalink · Report
PC-6001. Crucial for documenting very early Japanese games; small library; PC-6601 can be part of the same platform (like MSX 1/2), since the two share the games.
Tech specs:
Released in 1981
CPU PD 780c-1 (compatible with Z80) SPEED 3.8 MHz CO-PROCESSOR M5C6847P-1 video generator (MC6847 compatible)
RAM 16 KB (up to 32 KB)
ROM 16 KB (Basic) + 4 KB (character ROM)
TEXT MODES 32 x 16
GRAPHIC MODES 256 x 192 / 256 x 128 / 128 x 192 / 128 x 128 / 64 x 48 COLORS monochrome (256 x 192) / 2 (128 x 192) / 9 (64 x 48)
SOUND three channels, 8 octaves (General Instruments AY-3-8910)
MEDIA Cassette Tape, ROM Cartridge
KEYBOARD Chicklet keyboard, 71 keys, JIS standard layout
I/O PORTS Tape (600 / 1200 baud), RGB, Centronics, Joystick (2), ROM/RAM cartridges, Audio
Игги Друге (46653) on 9/22/2011 11:10 PM · edited · Permalink · Report
Here's what I wrote in the approver wiki five years ago. The PC-6601 is left out, since it is technically very different.
The year the platform was first ever released, country doesn't matter 1981 Name of Company that made the system NEC Company's country of origin Japan Total Number of Games (if known) Unknown, but rather high due to the platform's popularity Tech Spec Business Model Commercial Freeware/PD Minimum CPU Class Required All systems use a 4 MHz Z80 Minimum Supported System PC-6001 Released 1981 16 KB RAM (expandable to 32K) Same Motorola graphics chip as Tandy Coco, Dragon 32 Composite/RF display with 9 colours Three-voice synthesiser N60-BASIC (Microsoft 16K BASIC) PC-6001A was the export model PC-6001mkII Released 1983 64 KB RAM Redesigned graphics chip RGB display with 15 colours Added graphic character set (like Commodore) Support for kanji ROM three-voice synthesiser speech synthesiser N60-BASIC (Microsoft 16K BASIC), N60 Extended BASIC, N60m BASIC PC-6001mkIISR Released 1984 64 KB RAM New high-resolution graphics chip (same as on contemporary PC-88SR machines) 3,5" floppy drive N60-BASIC (Microsoft 16K BASIC), N60 Extended BASIC, N66 BASIC, N66SR BASIC FM synthesiser (same as on contemporary PC-88SR machines) Supported Kernels and Libraries Kanji ROM Minimum RAM Required 16 KB 32 KB 64 KB Media Type 5,25" floppy 3,5" floppy Cassette Cartridge Type-in Download Video Modes Supported 160x200, 15 colours 256x192, from monochrome to 9 colours 320x200, from 4 to 15 colours 640x200, 4 colours Sound Capabilities AY-3-8910 (three-voice synthesiser, same as on ST, CPC, MSX, etc) Yamaha YM2203 chip (3 PSG voices, 3 FM voices) Speech synthesiser Input Devices Keyboard Joystick (digital Atari standard) Multiplayer Options Number of Players 1-2 players 1-3 players 1-4 players 1-8 players Multiplayer Game Modes Same/split-screen Misc. Attributes Printer Game Package box, cassette case, plastic folder, cardboard folder, other Release Country - where the games were released legally Japan, Iraq, North America
Unicorn Lynx (181775) on 9/22/2011 9:40 AM · Permalink · Report
Fujitsu FM-7. Predecessor of FM-Towns; small library but some important exclusive games.
Tech specs:
Released in 1982
Processor: MBL 68B09 SPEED 2 MHz CO-PROCESSOR second MBL 68B09 (Graphic & I/0)
RAM 64 KB (30371 Bytes free with F-Basic) VRAM 48 KB
ROM 48 KB
TEXT MODES 80 x 25 / 80 x 20 / 40 x 25 / 40 x 20
GRAPHIC MODES 640 x 200 pixels, 8 colors
SOUND Programmable Sound Generator, AY-3-8910 PSG chip, 3 channels, 8 octaves
I/O PORTS Keyboard, Tape, RGB, RS232, Joystick (2), ROM/RAM cartridges, BUS
MEDIA: Cassette Tape, optional 5.25'' disk-drive. 10 or 20 MB hard disk
OS Fujitsu Disk Basic , OS-9 (Microware), Flex (CP/M like DOS for 68xx CPU)
PERIPHERALS Kanji ROM card, Z80 card, RS232c interface card.
Игги Друге (46653) on 9/22/2011 11:12 PM · Permalink · Report
What do you think about FM-77?
Unicorn Lynx (181775) on 9/22/2011 11:23 PM · Permalink · Report
Should be listed as a "minimum system required" in tech specs, just like MSX-2 is for the MSX platform.
Игги Друге (46653) on 9/22/2011 11:28 PM · Permalink · Report
And FM-77AV?
Unicorn Lynx (181775) on 9/23/2011 4:23 AM · Permalink · Report
We should have each model as a tech spec, just like we do with other computers.
I found this list:
1982 — FM7: M68B09, ram 64kb, rom 48kb, vram 48kb, 640×200, 8 colors
1984 — FM77: M68B09E, ram 64kb (max256kb), vram 48kb
1985 — FM77AV: M68B09E, ram 128kb (max 192kb), rom 48kb, vram 96kb, 640x200 (2 colors), 320x200 (4096 colors), 4096 colors, 1(AV-1) o 2(AV-2) floppy 3.5 320kb
1986 — FM77AV20: M68B09E, like l'FM77AV but: floppy 640kb
1986 — FM77AV40: M68B09E, like l'FM77AV20 but: ram 192kb (max 448kb), vram 144kb to support 320x200 (262144 colors)
1987 — FM77AV20EX: M68B09E, ram 128kb (max 192kb), vram 96kb, 640x400
1987 — FM77AV40EX: M68B09E, ram 192kb (max 448kb), vram 144kb, 640x400
1988 — FM77AV40SX: M68B09E, ram 192kb (max 448kb), vram 144kb
Trypticon (11024) on 9/23/2011 10:21 AM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Unicorn Lynx wrote--]We should have each model as a tech spec, just like we do with other computers. [/Q --end Unicorn Lynx wrote--]
The optimum would be to only list machines which represent standards within series and have games associated with them- Moby doesn't have the Amiga 3000 within the Amiga series as tech spec for example.
I guess it's better to be safe than sorry, but I still note that emulators and the FM-7 museum only use FM7, FM77AV and FM77AV40 models for their purpose. There's also the issue of how the FM-8 fits in.
Unicorn Lynx (181775) on 9/23/2011 10:26 AM · Permalink · Report
There's also the issue of how the FM-8 fits in
Wasn't FM-8 a precursor to FM-7? It should probably be listed as a separate platform. I know nothing about it, though.
Trypticon (11024) on 9/23/2011 10:47 AM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Unicorn Lynx wrote--]There's also the issue of how the FM-8 fits in
Wasn't FM-8 a precursor to FM-7? It should probably be listed as a separate platform. I know nothing about it, though. [/Q --end Unicorn Lynx wrote--]
Yes, but I don't know how the compatibility between these two is. Over at the FM-museum, games are listed as FM-8, FM-7, and FM-7/8.
Unicorn Lynx (181775) on 9/23/2011 11:31 AM · Permalink · Report
I guess FM-7/8 simply means a game was released for both platforms. This still doesn't mean we should dump them together. Or do you think FM-7 is just an upgrade of FM-8? Then we can document them as one platform (such as for example MSX and MSX 2).
Trypticon (11024) on 9/23/2011 12:37 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Unicorn Lynx wrote--]I guess FM-7/8 simply means a game was released for both platforms. This still doesn't mean we should dump them together. Or do you think FM-7 is just an upgrade of FM-8? Then we can document them as one platform (such as for example MSX and MSX 2). [/Q --end Unicorn Lynx wrote--]
The examples I found look like FM-7/8 means dual compatibility/release - see this for example
Unicorn Lynx (181775) on 9/22/2011 9:44 AM · Permalink · Report
Sharp X1. Predecessor of X68000. Same as the others - very old, important exclusives, small library.
Tech specs:
Released in 1982
CPU Sharp Z80 A SPEED 4 MHz
RAM 64 KB VRAM 4 KB (up to 48 KB)
ROM 6 KB
TEXT MODES 40 / 80 x 25
GRAPHIC MODES 320 x 200 / 640 x 200 8 colors
SOUND 3 voices PSG
I/O PORTS 2 x I/O ports, 2 x joysticks (Atari), audio out, keyboard, printer
BUILT IN MEDIA Cassette Tape
OS CP/M
Trypticon (11024) on 9/23/2011 10:40 AM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Unicorn Lynx wrote--]Sharp X1. Predecessor of X68000. Same as the others - very old, important exclusives, small library.
BUILT IN MEDIA Cassette Tape
OS CP/M [/Q --end Unicorn Lynx wrote--]
CP/M is just an option. I don't think that's even listed in the Japanese wikipedia entry. The games floating around sometimes need to be booted with one of the available Basics. This probably needs some more research.
For the minimum supported system, the question again arises: Either listing all models to be found or go by sources/emulators, which only differentiate between standard X1, Turbo and Turbo Z (and I don't think I have seen exklusive Turbo Z games, perhaps some games use optional features of the machine).
Unicorn Lynx (181775) on 9/23/2011 11:33 AM · Permalink · Report
Either listing all models to be found or go by sources/emulators, which only differentiate between standard X1, Turbo and Turbo Z (and I don't think I have seen exklusive Turbo Z games, perhaps some games use optional features of the machine)
If you are 100% sure only X1, Turbo and Turbo Z are requirements, then we should only list those. If not - better safe than sorry.
Trypticon (11024) on 9/23/2011 3:11 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Unicorn Lynx wrote--]Either listing all models to be found or go by sources/emulators, which only differentiate between standard X1, Turbo and Turbo Z (and I don't think I have seen exklusive Turbo Z games, perhaps some games use optional features of the machine)
If you are 100% sure only X1, Turbo and Turbo Z are requirements, then we should only list those. If not - better safe than sorry. [/Q --end Unicorn Lynx wrote--]
I'd be more confident if there would be some kind of database available which has the cover art to look at like for the PC-88. And I really don't plan to track down documentation and auctions in the near future, so I'd be for the "better safe than sorry" approach anyway. It's not like I'd expect the specs to be filled with lots (incorrect) information once the system is enabled. The one thing that should be looked into is probably the OS thing though.
Unicorn Lynx (181775) on 9/22/2011 9:51 AM · Permalink · Report
Old console: SEGA SG-1000. Predecessor of Master System, with a much smaller library.
Tech specs:
CPU: NEC 780C (clone of Zilog Z80) 3.579545 MHz for NTSC, 3.546893 MHz for PAL
Main RAM: 16 kbit (2 kB) Video RAM: 128 kbit (16 kB)
Video processor: Texas Instruments TMS9928A 256×192 resolution 32 sprites 16 colors
Sound: Texas Instruments SN76489 4-channel mono sound 3 sound generators, 4 octaves each, 1 white noise generator
Media: ROM Cartridge, Cassette tape, Game Card (requires Card Catcher adapter)
Ports: 1 cartridge 1 DIN composite video/audio (SC-3000 only) 1 RF out 1-2 joystick (1 port for SG-1000, 2 for SG-1000 II and SC-3000) 1 expansion parallel bus (used for SK-1100 keyboard and FM Sound Unit; (SK-1100)SG-1000 and SG-1000 II and Sega MarkIII / (FM Sound Unit)Sega MarkIII only ) 1 cassette (SC-3000 and SK-1100 keyboard) 1 printer (SC-3000 and SK-1100 keyboard)
Игги Друге (46653) on 9/22/2011 11:18 PM · Permalink · Report
Here's my writeup in the approver wiki. Note that the SG-1000 basically is an SC-3000 without keyboard.
The year the platform was first ever released, country doesn't matter July 1983 Name of Company that made the system Sega Enterprises (original) Yeno (France) John Sands (Australia) Grandstand Leisure Ltd. (NZ) Tsukuda Original (released Othello Multivision variation in Japan) (Various clones exist as well) Company's country of origin Japan Total Number of Games (if known) Unknown, but at least 50 Tech Spec Business Model Commercial Freeware/PD Minimum CPU Class Required Not applicable Minimum OS Class Required None, Basic Level II, Basic Level IIIA, Basic Level IIIB, Disk Basic Minimum Supported System Supported Kernels and Libraries Minimum RAM Required 2 (18) KB (16 KB VRAM included) 32 KB 64KB Media Type Cartridge Cassette 3" Floppy Sega Mycard (using Card Catcher add-on) Type-in Video Modes Supported 256x192 (Same VDP as MSX or Colecovision) Sound Capabilities (Same PSG as Master System) Input Devices Keyboard Joystick/joypad (two-button digital, same as Master System) Othello controller Multiplayer Options Number of Players 1-4 players Multiplayer Game Modes Same/split-screen Misc. Attributes Printer Ratings What rating system applies to games released None Game Package Package games came in box, cassette case, keep case Video Standard NTSC, PAL Region Code - games that may have region locks None Release Country - where the games were released legally Japan, South Korea, New Zeeland, Australia, France, Finland, South Africa, Spain, Italy, Hong Kong
Игги Друге (46653) on 9/23/2011 9:43 PM · Permalink · Report
It's only sensible if you have a keyboard, but I don't really know if you could add both keyboard and floppy to the SG-1000 at the same time.
Игги Друге (46653) on 9/22/2011 11:25 PM · Permalink · Report
The Philips VG5000 seems like a good candidate. The tech specs are easy and there is an emulator. It's got a very small software library, but amongst those games are early works by big French software houses, some of the only ports of G7000/Odyssey2 hits and at least one Konami conversion.
chirinea (47495) on 9/24/2011 2:28 AM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Игги Друге wrote--]The Philips VG5000 seems like a good candidate. The tech specs are easy and there is an emulator. It's got a very small software library, but amongst those games are early works by big French software houses, some of the only ports of G7000/Odyssey2 hits and at least one Konami conversion. [/Q --end Игги Друге wrote--]Once we're at it, I'll ask once again for the Videopac+/G7400. As for the tech specs, they're pretty much the same as the Odyssey² ones.