Forums > MobyGames > Game Group proposal: Gah.

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Indra was here (20756) on 1/4/2013 9:01 AM · edited · Permalink · Report

Gah, lost whatever description I wrote here.

Tentative Name:

Description:

Limitations

  • Gah

Examples

  • Gah
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Cavalary (11445) on 1/4/2013 10:00 AM · Permalink · Report

So would FF8's crappy magic system count here?

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Indra was here (20756) on 1/4/2013 11:42 AM · Permalink · Report

[Q --start Cavalary wrote--]So would FF8's crappy magic system count here? [/Q --end Cavalary wrote--]Most likely. Unless there's a good reason not to.

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CalaisianMindthief (8172) on 1/4/2013 12:24 PM · Permalink · Report

Maybe a game featuring X-Men's Rogue?

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lilalurl (733) on 1/4/2013 12:44 PM · Permalink · Report

X-Men vs. Street Fighter indeed, at least in the arcade version: http://www.mobygames.com/game/x-men-vs-street-fighter

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Indra was here (20756) on 1/4/2013 2:39 PM · Permalink · Report

Well that's one limitation worth mentioning then. That skill theft is only temporary, no?

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lilalurl (733) on 1/4/2013 3:19 PM · Permalink · Report

It is.

Permanent "theft" I have trouble thinking of any example.

Perhaps the soul system in Castlevania Aria of Sorrown and Dawn of Sorrow, but that is not really stealing per se.

There was also a Playstation game in which I think you could steal elements body parts (I think the protagonists were robots) from opponents if you won and therefore earn new moves. But it is a bit of a stretch from your proposal.

Now that I think of it (because of Cavalary's post) Gau's ability in Final Fantasy III/VI could probably fit, although I don't remember if it can fail or always succeed (not a character that I was fond of).

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Pseudo_Intellectual (66274) on 1/4/2013 5:43 PM · Permalink · Report

Kloonigames' "Humpsters" also has a mechanism whereby you gain abilities of slain opponents, as does... MegaMan? But no chance of failure...

My feelings are that this group currently has one or two limitations too many. If the group proponent can't think of a single example, perhaps that's because its scope is just too narrow.

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chirinea (47504) on 1/4/2013 3:17 PM · Permalink · Report

What about Soul Reaver and the whole "consume your brothers' souls to gain their powers"?

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Indra was here (20756) on 1/5/2013 3:15 AM · Permalink · Report

[Q --start chirinea wrote--]What about Soul Reaver and the whole "consume your brothers' souls to gain their powers"? [/Q --end chirinea wrote--]Nope. Updated description to exclude automatic story-fixed instances where consuming skills isn't optional.

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j.raido 【雷堂嬢太朗】 (93195) on 1/4/2013 4:34 PM · Permalink · Report

Kirby?

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Tracy Poff (2094) on 1/4/2013 6:46 PM · Permalink · Report

Final Fantasy VII had the Enemy Skill materia. If you had it equipped, and a certain skill was used on you, you gained that skill. Not exactly 'stealing', but copying. Didn't FFX have something like that, too?

Some Pokemon game had an ability that let you copy (or maybe it was actually steal--can't remember if it removed the ability from the target) a skill.

Kirby's copy ability might fit.

I think we need to be a little clearer about what 'stealing' means.

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Pseudo_Intellectual (66274) on 1/4/2013 8:07 PM · Permalink · Report

Yeah, is it record-store stealing or Napster stealing?

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Indra was here (20756) on 1/5/2013 3:16 AM · Permalink · Report

[Q --start Tracy Poff wrote--]I think we need to be a little clearer about what 'stealing' means. [/Q --end Tracy Poff wrote--]Done. Please recheck original description for any other possible interpretations.

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Rola (8485) on 1/5/2013 4:33 AM · Permalink · Report

Oooh, now it says "learning"... In that case I do recall some games where the magic system had "% chance to learn a spell when cast by the enemy". Betrayal in Antara used this to introduce new magic disciplines?

Anyway, I still find this group fairly confusing and obscure. And my question about "pay-to-win games" group got ignored...

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Indra was here (20756) on 1/5/2013 9:55 AM · edited · Permalink · Report

[Q --start Rola wrote--]Oooh, now it says "learning"... In that case I do recall some games where the magic system had "% chance to learn a spell when cast by the enemy". Betrayal in Antara used this to introduce new magic disciplines? [/Q --end Rola wrote--] Yup. Basically permanently getting an ability/skill/technique/spell from the opponent.

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Indra was here (20756) on 1/5/2013 9:59 AM · edited · Permalink · Report

It seems that using the word stealing may be a tad problematic. I guess it's clear what I'm talking about...so how should the title wording be for permanently optionally obtaining abilities from random enemies?

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Indra was here (20756) on 1/5/2013 12:57 PM · edited · Permalink · Report

Tentative Name: Gameplay Feature: Aging

Description:
Games where the player controlled avatar/unit has an identifiable age or time signifier which will gradually increase while playing (or in some instances decrease). Aging will result in changes to the player controlled avatar/unit such as physical changes (e.g. gray hair), attribute changes (e.g. lower or higher attributes), or other specified age-related changes (e.g. constantly whining). In some cases, aging may result in permanent death due to natural causes.

Limitations

  • Only applies to games where the player has control over an avatar or unit(s). Games where an age is identifiable however they are controlled by Artificial Intelligence (AI) without any form of direct player control should be excluded from this game group. Note: Ordering a character to act without actually controlling it directly is considered eligible for this game group.
  • Games where the age of a player controlled avatar/unit is identifiable, however no immediate consequence of an age increase/decrease is noticeable, should be excluded from this game group.
  • Games where the age of a player controlled avatar/unit is identifiable, may increase naturally/unnaturally, however without any apparent consequence other than the age itself, should be excluded from this game group.

Game Examples:

  • Darklands
  • The Guild series
  • Sid Meier's Pirates! series (currently under debate)
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Cavalary (11445) on 1/5/2013 2:01 PM · Permalink · Report

In Pirates it's health, which gradually declines with time (decline can be slowed with some items), so it's age-like, but not actual age.

I gather this is the new game group thread then?

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Indra was here (20756) on 1/5/2013 2:15 PM · edited · Permalink · Report

[Q --start Cavalary wrote--]In Pirates it's health, which gradually declines with time (decline can be slowed with some items), so it's age-like, but not actual age.

I gather this is the new game group thread then? [/Q --end Cavalary wrote--] Yeah, I have a few trillion game group ideas that need to put to writing, not including past suggestions. I may never reach to have as many points as Sciere or Oleg, but gawddang I will out-game-group-create and out-game-group-description them! :p

Do I get points for this? Nooooooo.

Er. Where was I? gathers composure

So should Pirates be included? I'm inclined to go either way.

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Terok Nor (41846) on 1/5/2013 2:30 PM · Permalink · Report

What about age in the AD&D Gold Box games? I think you could only age through the Haste spell, but could you actually get so far that your attributes were lowered or you even died?

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Indra was here (20756) on 1/5/2013 2:36 PM · edited · Permalink · Report

[Q --start Terok Nor wrote--]What about age in the AD&D Gold Box games? I think you could only age through the Haste spell, but could you actually get so far that your attributes were lowered or you even died? [/Q --end Terok Nor wrote--] Oh, yeah. Forgot about them. Dunno if your attributes change after reaching 80 years old. Never really tried (kept using that potion where you get younger). Though for argument sake, aging without permanent consequence shouldn't be included.

Something to put in the description at least.

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Alaka (105836) on 1/5/2013 3:16 PM · Permalink · Report

How about Wizardry: Proving Grounds of the Mad Overlord - sleeping at the Adventurer's Inn or changing classes will age a character.

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Indra was here (20756) on 1/5/2013 3:27 PM · edited · Permalink · Report

[Q --start ALAKA wrote--]How about Wizardry: Proving Grounds of the Mad Overlord - sleeping at the Adventurer's Inn or changing classes will age a character. [/Q --end ALAKA wrote--]Now that's new to me, I admit.

To be clear, the scenario is: Aging --> Something happens.

Not included:
Something happens --> Aging
Aging --> Nothing happens.
Nothing happens --> Aging. Wonder what this one means? :p

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Klaster_1 (57612) on 1/5/2013 3:28 PM · edited · Permalink · Report

The Sims, Fable I.

P.S.: Are there any games about vine?

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Patrick Bregger (298879) on 1/5/2013 4:15 PM · Permalink · Report

Der Winzer.

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leilei (343) on 1/5/2013 9:59 PM · Permalink · Report

Darkstone had age, in an annoying way.

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Indra was here (20756) on 1/6/2013 8:17 AM · edited · Permalink · Report

Tentative Name: Gameplay Feature: Games with Military Rank. Though it probably should be Games with Military Rank Promotion Ladder...though that sounds a bit weird. Follow-up on this game group: Games with nobility titles

Proposed Description:
Games where the player may attain military ranks by climbing up a promotion ladder through completing quests, deeds, or similar services. Acquiring such may allow the player to gain access to additional military units, sub-ordinates, or that really big water gun at the military depot. Attaining a military rank will greatly depend on the player's performance on a specified mission, campaign, or equivalent events and other considerations.

A clear 'career' ladder must be available for the player to climb. For example, the lowest rank in some military systems is cadet, while the highest may be marshal (air force), general (army), and admiral (navy). Fiction-based military ranks are also applicable.

Limitations:

  • Games where the player is simply identified as having a military rank or its equivalent without the option to gain a promotion to a higher title should be excluded from this game group.
  • Games where a clear and explicit career ladder is not available should be excluded from this game group. Some strategy games may offer increase in influence, land, or power, however are unclear in terms of military promotions.
  • Games where a military career ladder or similar equivalent exists, but to units not controllable by the player should be excluded from this game group. The player's character should be the person subject to military titles. [Discuss]
  • Games where military ranks is only identified as a scoring rank (usually at the end of a scenario or end game) without any additional benefits throughout the game nor does it effect gameplay in any way (usually just informational) should be excluded from this game group.
  • Games where military ranks only represent an in-game difficulty setting should be excluded from this game group.
  • Games where military ranks are only obtainable through the completion of a story-oriented plot should be excluded from this game group.

Examples:

  • Starfleet: Battle Begins
  • Gunship 2000

I forget, are approvers the only ones that can create a game group? If so...mind pushing those previous proposed game groups along?

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Rola (8485) on 1/6/2013 9:50 AM · Permalink · Report

Brace yourself. Every single combat flight simulator with campaigns & pilot stats features this. Even in space :] (X-Wing and its sequels)

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Indra was here (20756) on 1/6/2013 9:51 AM · Permalink · Report

[Q --start Rola wrote--]Brace yourself. Every single combat flight simulator with campaigns & pilot stats features this. Even in space :] (X-Wing and its sequels) [/Q --end Rola wrote--]Almost all. Automatic promotions don't count.

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Rola (8485) on 1/6/2013 10:35 AM · Permalink · Report

What do you mean? I'm talking about games such as your example, Gunship 2000.

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Indra was here (20756) on 1/6/2013 3:06 PM · Permalink · Report

[Q --start Rola wrote--]What do you mean? I'm talking about games such as your example, Gunship 2000. [/Q --end Rola wrote--] Just that there are some military-themed games where you automatically get a promotion at the end of every scenario or at the end of a particular plot.

Which reminds me, I haven't created a medal-based game group yet.

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Rola (8485) on 1/6/2013 4:27 PM · edited · Permalink · Report

I know what you mean: you want ranks/medals given for exceptional performance. And not "finish the level under 3:00 to get silver star".

Stuff like this: http://www.mobygames.com/game/dos/wing-commander/screenshots/gameShotId,53272/
http://www.mobygames.com/game/genesis/f-15-strike-eagle-ii/screenshots/gameShotId,153474/

Sadly, the "achievement" trend in game design would make it more difficult to differentiate between genuine medals and these new rewards...

I assume you don't want sport trophies either?

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leilei (343) on 1/6/2013 10:58 AM · Permalink · Report

The best example is Duty Calls.

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Pseudo_Intellectual (66274) on 1/6/2013 11:37 PM · Permalink · Report

I believe the PC version of Dragonstrike had this.

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Indra was here (20756) on 1/6/2013 8:50 AM · edited · Permalink · Report

Tentative Name: Gameplay Feature: House Ownership (this title kinda sucks)

Proposed Description: Games where the player's character may optionally purchase, obtain, inherit, or otherwise own one or more houses.

Ownership of a house may be marked with a bill of sale, proof of purchase, or equivalent items or events that identifies the house as property of the player. The house may be built (from scratch) or made readily available, providing the player with options to refurnish or upgrade the house and/or it's contents.

Acquiring a house also means that the house and its contents/surroundings may be manipulated someway by the player. This includes storing items, resting or sleeping, and other functions that previously made not be made available to the player.

Limitations:

  • A house or similar function building must be identified. Acquiring a stable, a port, an entire town, or a toilet does not comply with the purposes of this game group.
  • Games where ownership of a house occurs without player consent, should be excluded from this game group. This includes story-based events where the player acquires a house, the plot where the player starts with a house, or other events where the player has no choice in the matter. That the player may optionally acquire a house must be emphasized.
  • Games where the house cannot be manipulated or used in anyway by the player (e.g. just an accessory without benefits) should be excluded from this game group.
  • This is not a real estate themed game group. Games where gameplay included the buying and selling of real estate including houses, is not the intention of this game group. Unless it fulfills the aforementioned requirements, should be excluded from this game group.

Examples:
The Sims series, the Elder Scroll series.

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Rola (8485) on 1/6/2013 10:09 AM · Permalink · Report

"Games where the player character may...." <-- as in RPGs, right?

To exclude games where buying/developing land/houses is part of the gameplay.

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Indra was here (20756) on 1/6/2013 3:12 PM · Permalink · Report

[Q --start Rola wrote--]"Games where the player character may...." <-- as in RPGs, right?

To exclude games where buying/developing land/houses is part of the gameplay. [/Q --end Rola wrote--] Fixed and added new limitation. Creating game group descriptions feels like contract drafting. :p

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Pseudo_Intellectual (66274) on 1/6/2013 11:38 PM · Permalink · Report

Not just Fable, but also the Fabled Lands games...

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Indra was here (20756) on 1/7/2013 8:45 AM · Permalink · Report

Dude, you wanna copy paste these game groups into the queue? I'll fix the html later if it's too much of a hassle.

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Pseudo_Intellectual (66274) on 1/7/2013 5:00 PM · Permalink · Report

Not until we workshop them extensively here! LORD 2 also had home ownership.

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Indra was here (20756) on 1/8/2013 3:52 AM · Permalink · Report

Two-three days without additional input/opposition is considered extensive anyways. Don't want them to end up in the forgotten limbo.

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Indra was here (20756) on 1/6/2013 9:22 AM · edited · Permalink · Report

Tentative Name: Gameplay Feature: Marriage

Related to the I wanna date and I wanna have kids game groups.

Description: Games where the player may optionally tie the knot in matrimony as a sign of mutual love or a blurry night in Vegas.

Marriages occur between a player with an Non-Player Character (NPC) or between two players (usually in online games), usually preludes with a ceremony and other related events or requirements.

Limitations:

  • Note that marrying is an optional choice, thus the player(s) must actively decide whether or not to have they wish to proceed with matrimony or not. Games where player(s) by story line or plot are automatically married or are about to be married should be excluded from this game group.
  • For purposes of this game group, marriage in the game should have an active effect on gameplay, either in the form of a controllable spouse, a spouse which offers certain bonuses to the player, or having a spouse will prompt the player to adapt an additional form of gameplay (e.g. maintaining the marriage romance). Games where spouses merely represent a graphical feature without any effect on the gameplay, consequence of story/ending, or other alternatives that do not effect the overall gameplay should be excluded from this game group. This requirement however may be excluded for multiplayer marriages between two online players.

Notes

  • An official marital status or some form of recognition during gameplay is required.
  • Applies to all genders and life forms. Doesn't matter if it is heterosexual, same-sex marriage, or marrying a flower pot if all the aforementioned requirements are fulfilled.

Examples: The Sims and a lotta other games.

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Indra was here (20756) on 1/8/2013 11:03 AM · edited · Permalink · Report

Tentative Name: Gameplay Feature: Games with civil titles.

Proposed Description:
Games where the player may civil titles (civilian or politically based) by climbing up a promotion ladder through completing quests, deeds, or similar services.

A clear 'career' ladder must be available for the player to climb. For example, the title citizen is the lowest title and mayor or governor (depending on the scope of the game) as the highest.

Limitations:

  • Games where the player is simply identified as having a civil title or its equivalent without the option to gain a promotion to a higher title should be excluded from this game group.
  • Games where a clear and explicit career ladder is not available should be excluded from this game group.
  • Games where a civil career ladder or similar equivalent exists, but to units not controllable by the player should be excluded from this game group. The player's character should be the person subject to political titles. [Discuss]
  • Games where civil titles is only identified as a scoring rank (usually at the end of a scenario or end game) without any additional benefits throughout the game nor does it effect gameplay in any way (usually just informational) should be excluded from this game group.
  • Games where political titles only represent an in-game difficulty setting should be excluded from this game group.
  • Games where political titles are only obtainable through the completion of a story-oriented plot should be excluded from this game group.

Examples:

  • The Guild series
  • Romance of the Three Kingdoms XI
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CalaisianMindthief (8172) on 1/8/2013 5:11 PM · Permalink · Report

I think the term "civil titles" is more correct, as most of them are supposed to be outside of politics.

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Indra was here (20756) on 1/9/2013 5:51 AM · Permalink · Report

[Q --start TotalAnarchy wrote--]I think the term "civil titles" is more correct, as most of them are supposed to be outside of politics. [/Q --end TotalAnarchy wrote--]Inclined to go either way since I'm not entirely sure if there's such a term a political titles. Though I suspect your definition of politics resembles more of modern politics while mine is simply licking ass. :)

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Cavalary (11445) on 1/9/2013 12:44 PM · Permalink · Report

That'd make it even less likely to be political then, as the player character tends to kick far more ass that s/he kisses.

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Indra was here (20756) on 1/9/2013 3:05 PM · Permalink · Report

Licking ass is more hardcore than kissing ass. Just sayin'. runs away

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Indra was here (20756) on 1/11/2013 12:52 PM · edited · Permalink · Report

Tentative Name: Gameplay Feature: Head shot or Headshot(?)

Description: Games that feature head shots as a gameplay feature, where attacking or shooting an enemy's head results in instant death, high damage, graphical animation of head popping like a bubble, a sudden world wide demand increase for aspirin, or other similar head-specific features.

The head shot feature is primarily found in first-person shooter (FPS) games. Usually, a head shot feature is indicated by an in-game text indicating a successful head shot by the player. Other variations include graphical animations or chances of killing an enemy to be easier if the head is targeted and attacked.

Limitations
Can't think of any.

Examples
Counterstrike and almost every other FPS in existence.

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leilei (343) on 1/11/2013 12:58 PM · Permalink · Report

MDK's an early one.

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Indra was here (20756) on 1/11/2013 1:08 PM · edited · Permalink · Report

Tentative Name: Gameplay Feature: Anatomical Targeting

Description: Games where a feature allows the player to optionally target and damage a specific anatomical part of an opponent.

This feature usually consists of the player activating a unique action, usually followed by a targeting interface which allows the player to select through various body parts of an opponent (e.g. head, arms, leg, torso, tail, etc.). In other games, the player only needs to move the targeting cursor to a specified body part. The specified body part usually has a health bar or percentage rate, which when damaged decreases until it is disabled or destroyed.

In some games, only certain weapons have the option of this feature (e.g. sniper rifle, high powered rubber band with scope, etc.).

If for whatever reason the description above doesn't make sense cough, follow this example:
[1] Player equips weapons.
[2] Player target enemy.
[3] A feature allows the player to target a specific body part.
[4] Player attempts to attack specified body part.
[5] If attack successful, specified body part is injured, disabled, or blown off.

Limitations:

  • Games where specific body parts maybe injured, disabled, or blown off without any form of targeting (e.g. shooting blindly) should be excluded from this game group.

Example Games:

  • Jagged Alliance: Back in Action
  • Series: Fallout
  • Series: Jagged Alliance 2
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lilalurl (733) on 1/11/2013 1:42 PM · Permalink · Report

I believe you are mistaken about the X-com series.

Perhaps you are thinking about the different armours and their level of protection varying between front/back/left/right/under. But that would be out of the scope of your definition.

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Rola (8485) on 1/11/2013 2:37 PM · Permalink · Report

[Q --start lilalurl wrote--]I believe you are mistaken about the X-com series.[/Q --end lilalurl wrote--] Ditto regarding the original Jagged Alliance titles (precise aiming was featured indeed, but you don't select the body part).

Your recent group proposals are a bit messy. What about Fallout, where you'd get all "headshots, anatomical & electronic targeting"?

What you wanted to say is "games with enemies featuring sectioned damage model". Which means you can shoot off its head or shield generator first, not just inflict damage points until it dies.

What about those arcadish games which feature bosses that have those turrets, parts etc.? What about later combat flight simulators, which take into account which part are you shooting at?

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Indra was here (20756) on 1/11/2013 6:34 PM · edited · Permalink · Report

You guys sure about X-Com? My memory seems to be failing then. Pretty sure about Jagged Alliance though. Pretty sure you could sharp shoot and attack specific body parts.

[edit] Googled. JA has the ability to target body parts. Appears this a game series called Silent Storm has this function also.

Anyway, updating. Keyword: targeting menu.

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Indra was here (20756) on 1/11/2013 1:18 PM · edited · Permalink · Report

Tentative Name: Gameplay Feature: Electronic Targeting (note: title sucks)

Description:
Games where a feature allows the player may optionally select, target, and damage a specific part/section of a vehicle, structure, or equivalent non-biological object. This feature usually consists of the player activating a unique action, usually followed by a targeting menu which allows the player to select through various sections/parts of a vehicle, structure, or equivalent object (e.g. antenna, turrets, shield, orbital nude beach, etc.).

Originally found in simulation games with sci-fi elements, the player in most instances controls a futuristic vehicle, targets a specified section of an enemy vehicle, structure, or equivalent non-biological object, and focuses fire power to that specified section. The specified section usually has a health bar or percentage rate, which when damaged decreases until it is disabled or destroyed.

In some games, only guided missiles or equivalent weapons have this feature.

Limitations:

  • This game group emphasizes a targeting menu that allows a the player to select and target a specified section/part of a non-biological object. Games where the player can shoot at different sections of an enemy vehicle, structure, or its equivalent, whereas those sections may be damaged, disabled, or destroyed separately, without a targeting menu option (usually found in arcade type games) should be excluded from this game group.

Example Games:

  • Arctic Fox
  • Series: Tie Fighter
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lilalurl (733) on 1/11/2013 1:45 PM · Permalink · Report

Freespace 2: http://www.mobygames.com/game/windows/freespace-2

Probably the first opus too.

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vedder (70685) on 1/11/2013 1:59 PM · Permalink · Report

I have absolutely no idea what you mean with this game group.

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Indra was here (20756) on 1/11/2013 6:46 PM · Permalink · Report

  1. Player-controlled vehicle.
  2. Player targets enemy vehicle/structure.
  3. Targeting menu shows up.
  4. Targeting menu scans various parts/sections of the vehicle/structure.
  5. Player chooses section e.g. antenna of a tank.
  6. Player fires missile.
  7. Missile hits and destroys antenna.
  8. Enemy tank loses radar ability due to loss of antenna.

Compared to other games where targeting is limited the entire tank, not specific parts of the tank.

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vedder (70685) on 1/11/2013 8:22 PM · Permalink · Report

So it's (gameplay wise) 100% identical to anatomical targeting, with the superficial difference that the player must control a vehicle instead of it being optional?

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Indra was here (20756) on 1/11/2013 8:35 PM · edited · Permalink · Report

[Q --start vedder wrote--]So it's (gameplay wise) 100% identical to anatomical targeting, with the superficial difference that the player must control a vehicle instead of it being optional? [/Q --end vedder wrote--]Yep. Though emphasis for the electronic targeting (note: may require better name), is that its targets are usually non-biological in nature.

Not entirely sure that player-controlled vehicle needs to be included though. Basically the first game group is blowing an arm off a terrorist, the other game group is blowing the wheels off of the terrorist's car.

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Rola (8485) on 1/12/2013 6:57 AM · edited · Permalink · Report

Not sure if anybody noticed: I said above, lump the anatomical..., electronic... and headshot... groups together under "complex damage model" or something these lines.

Oh, and show me a screenshot where you can select limbs in first Jagged Alliance.

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Indra was here (20756) on 1/12/2013 8:51 AM · Permalink · Report

Well, dunno if anyone has issues with separating them or lumping them all together. Personally, I'd like a separation but I'm weird that way.

Didn't find a screenshot for JA. Just google "Jagged Alliance body parts". Either that's true or they're all lying. Oh, the drama. :p

Your guys really sure about XCOM? Could've sworn with certain weapons you could target individual body parts.

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lilalurl (733) on 1/12/2013 9:35 AM · edited · Permalink · Report

A weapon powered by Indrarium-115 maybe?

Perhaps you think about some alien units such as the cyberdisc that occupy several (4) tiles? Not body parts stricly speaking.

As for JA1, I am not 100% sure because I only really played it via the DS remake (I don't think so but there is a possibility that they had simplified the gameplay compared tothe DOS original), but I am pretty confident that Rola is correct. In JA2 you can aim at various body sections.

Besides screenshots, you can double check via the manuals.

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Indra was here (20756) on 1/12/2013 9:38 AM · Permalink · Report

Better safe then sorry then shakes fist at Rola.
In the mean time, more I've spammed more game groups for your leisure.

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Rola (8485) on 1/12/2013 10:22 AM · edited · Permalink · Report

I'd rather waste time on research after a group gets approved, but because I like you:

As I said already, the first "Jagged Alliance" (and "Deadly Games") only gives you option to spend more action points on accurate aim.
Games using "Jagged Alliance 2" engine do use head/torso/legs targeting.
It appears true also for the latest game "Jagged Alliance: Back in Action" (missing in our database!)

Both "X-COM: UFO Defense" and "Terror from the Deep" are like JA1: http://www.mobygames.com/game/windows/x-com-ufo-defense/screenshots/gameShotId,421336/
Apparently also true for "Apocalypse", but I haven't played this one in ages...

I haven't finished JA series yet, last time touched them 6 years ago, but I once wanted to develop a game like this, so consider me a fan.
If anybody thinks I sound too picky...

Whenever I complain about group ideas, it has to do with future classification issues people will stumble upon (and not my nitpicking personality :D ). What if our enemy is a cyborg: anatomic or electronic targeting? Both? What are the arguments against making things simple and going for 1 group instead of 3?

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Patrick Bregger (298879) on 1/12/2013 10:25 AM · Permalink · Report

Jagged Alliance: Back in Action

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Indra was here (20756) on 1/12/2013 10:29 AM · Permalink · Report

[Q --start Patrick Bregger wrote--]Jagged Alliance: Back in Action [/Q --end Patrick Bregger wrote--]Ooh, a new JA game! Downloading. Yay!

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Indra was here (20756) on 1/17/2013 9:55 AM · Permalink · Report

One of the publishers is the same with JA: Back in Action. So I suspect, not really.

Official link: http://jaggedalliance.gamigo.com/de/

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Rola (8485) on 1/12/2013 12:38 PM · Permalink · Report

Thanks, no wonder I missed it - it's not listed in the series group (fixed).

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Indra was here (20756) on 1/13/2013 7:37 AM · Permalink · Report

No character creation in this version. Whoever made that call deserves to be shot, strung up, and run over by a buick (quote from JA2).

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Rola (8485) on 1/13/2013 8:01 AM · Permalink · Report

Another proof confirming the trend that new games/remakes may have better graphics, yet the higher cost of hi-res content, testing and whatnot, means that features have to be removed or simplified. Same for the XCOM remake.

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Indra was here (20756) on 1/13/2013 8:55 AM · edited · Permalink · Report

Currently playing it...takes awhile to warm up too. The pause/real time mechanics is a bit confusing.

Also remembered that you can actually target body parts in JA 2 --> just move the targeting cursor to any body part: head, torso, legs.

Need to tweak that game group description a bit.

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Indra was here (20756) on 1/12/2013 10:27 AM · Permalink · Report

[Q --start Rola wrote--]What if our enemy is a cyborg: anatomic or electronic targeting? Both? What are the arguments against making things simple and going for 1 group instead of 3? [/Q --end Rola wrote--]Then we form a consensus to decide whether they should be included in both, or only one of them. :)

Though the main reasoning I've separated them is that both of these seem to fall under two different gameplay styles. One usually in tactical RPGs, the other in simulation games. Undoubtedly one day, there will be a game hybrid than includes both...and it would be nice to see the difference in specific gameplay features.

Fixed Jagged Alliance series to Jagged Alliance 2 series in anatomical targeting.

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leilei (343) on 1/11/2013 8:54 PM · Permalink · Report

Battlezone 1 and 2 feature this if you snipe on foot.

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Indra was here (20756) on 1/11/2013 8:59 PM · Permalink · Report

Removed the player controlled vehicle requirement to include this then.

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Indra was here (20756) on 1/12/2013 9:11 AM · edited · Permalink · Report

Tentative Name: Gameplay Feature: Monster Capture

Description: Games where forcefully capturing monsters (usually through combat or other violent means) is a major or minor gameplay element.

A successfully captured monster may be later viewed in the player's inventory, bestiary, or equivalent interface. These captured monsters may optionally be further be manipulated for other purposes, such as training it become a pet, converting it to become a minion or a companion, to be processed for alchemy purposes, or simply for display purposes.

Note:
Until further notice, the term 'monster' should be limited to creatures resembling fantasy-type or sci-fi manipulated creatures. Up to this point it is still unclear if 'monsters' is just a place holder name that may one day include any variation of life form, including people, domesticated animals, or even cybernetic entities. Until that line has been established, use popular use of the term 'monster' in gaming.

Example Games: Anything with a -mon behind the title. :p
More specifically:

  • Last Revenant
  • Monster Galaxy - Note: Not in database.
  • Wanderland Online
  • Zanzarah
  • Series: Digital Devil/Megami Tensei
  • Series: Dungeon Keeper
  • Series: Final Fantasy (not all of them though)
  • Series: Pokémon
  • Series: Monster Hunter
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Indra was here (20756) on 1/12/2013 9:16 AM · edited · Permalink · Report

Oops.

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Donatello (466) on 1/12/2013 9:38 AM · Permalink · Report

Many of the Megami Tensei games fall under this, specifically the mainline and Devil Summoner games.

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Unicorn Lynx (181780) on 1/15/2013 9:56 AM · Permalink · Report

Monster capture / training group submitted. Feel free to approve and add more games.

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Indra was here (20756) on 1/16/2013 11:55 AM · Permalink · Report

I hope those are two different groups BTW.

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Unicorn Lynx (181780) on 1/16/2013 3:58 PM · Permalink · Report

No, I combined them, otherwise they would heavily overlap. In almost all games you mentioned and I could think of capture also involves training, at least to some degree.

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Indra was here (20756) on 1/16/2013 4:21 PM · Permalink · Report

Whatever works. Don't even know why I bother to provide detailed descriptions to avoid possible confusion really.

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Trypticon (11024) on 1/20/2013 7:48 PM · edited · Permalink · Report

Is there some kind of line drawn here, or does merely talking to monsters also fit in? Like, the player "captures" a monster with his natural charm. And then it joins the party/troops.

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Indra was here (20756) on 1/20/2013 7:55 PM · Permalink · Report

E.g. with a net. Like fishing. Literally. Using your vocabulary, forced recruitment would be one relevant premise. Usage for games that introduce (1) capturing or recruiting monsters (2) training them and (3) breeding them. Many games have only one or two of the features of the above. Having all three of them is somewhat rare.

And people wonder why I create (too) detailed game group descriptions. The differential amount of possible subjective misinterpretation is astounding.

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Trypticon (11024) on 1/20/2013 9:18 PM · Permalink · Report

[Q --start Indra was here wrote--]E.g. with a net. Like fishing. Literally. Using your vocabulary, forced recruitment would be one relevant premise. Usage for games that introduce (1) capturing or recruiting monsters (2) training them and (3) breeding them. Many games have only one or two of the features of the above. Having all three of them is somewhat rare.

And people wonder why I create (too) detailed game group descriptions. The differential amount of possible subjective misinterpretation is astounding. [/Q --end Indra was here wrote--]

I'm not entirely sure how to interpret the above either :D.

Looking at what's currently in the group and in the queue to be added (Shin Megami Tensei, Dragon Warrior Monsters), it seems the distinction between "forced recruitment" and "unforced" is supposed to be meaningless, that's how I understand it. That would mean the games I had thought of adding, but not exactly remember the mechanics of (Final Fantasy Tactics, Ogre Battle) fit in no matter what.

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Indra was here (20756) on 1/20/2013 10:04 PM · Permalink · Report

Again, like fishing. Fish don't come up and want to join your dinner plate. :) You have to manually attempt to capture them by force.

In fact, ignore the word recruit all together. Units/monsters/innocent school girls that want to join up willingly don't count. I would say you'd have to defeat them in combat first, as as the requirement, but I don't really want to leave out other feasible options.

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Rola (8485) on 1/20/2013 10:19 PM · Permalink · Report

[Q --start Indra was here wrote--]innocent school girls that want to join up willingly don't count[/Q --end Indra was here wrote--] ...in that case you can send them to me?

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Indra was here (20756) on 1/23/2013 8:21 AM · edited · Permalink · Report

Gameplay feature: Monster capture / training is now online.

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Indra was here (20756) on 1/23/2013 8:31 AM · Permalink · Report

No idea where to put Black & White now.

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Indra was here (20756) on 1/12/2013 9:17 AM · edited · Permalink · Report

Tentative Name: Gameplay Feature: Monster Trainer

Description:
Games where the training monsters is a major or minor gameplay element. Monsters in this regard may be included in the player's party or in other cases, the player acts as a monster tamer leading a party of monsters.

Monster trainer games focuses on training a monster, through combat or non-combat training to make the monster more powerful. This includes learning new and more skills, spells, or abilities. Combating other monsters is also a common feature in monster trainer games.

Note:
Until further notice, the term 'monster' should be limited to creatures resembling fantasy-type or sci-fi manipulated creatures. Up to this point it is still unclear if 'monsters' is just a place holder name that may one day include any variation of life form, including people, domesticated animals, or even cybernetic entities. Until that line has been established, use popular use of the term 'monster' in gaming.

Example Games: Anything with a -mon behind the title. :p
More specifically:

  • Azure Dreams
  • Monster Galaxy - Note: Not in database.
  • Zanzarah
  • Series: Dungeon Keeper
  • Series: Digital Devil/Megami Tensei
  • Series: Black & White
  • Series: Monster Rancher
  • Series: Pokémon
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Rola (8485) on 1/12/2013 10:32 AM · Permalink · Report

Again, what's the difference between raising a norn, baby dragon, a monster, or your prostitute daughter? I'd say the defining factor is raising/training, not what is being trained.

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Indra was here (20756) on 1/12/2013 10:38 AM · Permalink · Report

[Q --start Rola wrote--]Again, what's the difference between raising a norn, baby dragon, a monster, or your prostitute daughter? I'd say the defining factor is raising/training, not what is being trained. [/Q --end Rola wrote--] I understand the sentiment. However, capturing-raising-training something is an extremely wide and abstract universe. A lot of military games have capturing enemy units and interrogating them and many games have units that can be trained. Every RPG in existence could be interpreted as Monster Training if there's more than one party member.

Where to draw the line?

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Indra was here (20756) on 1/12/2013 9:19 AM · edited · Permalink · Report

Tentative Name: Gameplay Feature: Monster Farming

Description:
Games where the breeding and nurturing of two or more monsters is a major or minor gameplay element. This included purchasing monsters, nurturing monster eggs until it hatches, nurturing monster babies until they become of age, or any process of acquiring monsters in a non-violent manner.

Limitations:

  • This is not a tamagochi game group where the player only focuses on one monster/pet. Multiple monsters or its equivalent being nurtured by the player should be stressed in this game group.

Note:
Until further notice, the term 'monster' should be limited to creatures resembling fantasy-type or sci-fi manipulated creatures. Up to this point it is still unclear if 'monsters' is just a place holder name that may one day include any variation of life form, including people, domesticated animals, or even cybernetic entities. Until that line has been established, use popular use of the term 'monster' in gaming.

Example Games: Anything with a -mon behind the title. :p
More specifically:

  • Azure Dreams
  • Dungeon Lord
  • Secret of the Magic Crystals - Note: Not in database.
  • Series: Creatures
  • Series: Monster Rancer
  • Series: Viva Piñata
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lilalurl (733) on 1/12/2013 9:43 AM · Permalink · Report

For all those monster groups, I think you should define what can be considered a monster or not.

For example, would (supposing it exists, which I don't doubt) a game dealing with capturing/breeding horses fit in the category.

Similarily, I think that in FF7 there is some stuff to do with Chocobo breeding (only know that from reading/hearing about it so someone need to confirm). Are they considered monsters or are monsters only creatures that are antagonists at first?

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Indra was here (20756) on 1/12/2013 9:49 AM · Permalink · Report

[Q --start lilalurl wrote--]For all those monster groups, I think you should define what can be considered a monster or not. [/Q --end lilalurl wrote--]I actually have no idea whether or not this should be limited or not. If suddenly a game hybrid identified capturing Russian prisoners of war then they are transformed into fiendish monster supersoldiers that can be trained by a Nazi mad scientist, we're screwed. :p

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j.raido 【雷堂嬢太朗】 (93195) on 1/20/2013 8:35 PM · Permalink · Report

[Q --start lilalurl wrote--]For all those monster groups, I think you should define what can be considered a monster or not.

For example, would (supposing it exists, which I don't doubt) a game dealing with capturing/breeding horses fit in the category.

Similarily, I think that in FF7 there is some stuff to do with Chocobo breeding (only know that from reading/hearing about it so someone need to confirm). Are they considered monsters or are monsters only creatures that are antagonists at first? [/Q --end lilalurl wrote--] There's actually a whole subgenre of horse breeding games, Derby Stallion series being the main representative. And oddly enough, there's a Final Fantasy crossover with that series called Chocobo Stallion.

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lilalurl (733) on 1/20/2013 9:44 PM · edited · Permalink · Report

[Q --start 雷堂嬢太朗 -jotaro.raido- wrote--]Derby Stallion[/Q --end 雷堂嬢太朗 -jotaro.raido- wrote--]

I guess this horse is drowning: http://www.mobygames.com/game/playstation/derby-stallion/screenshots/gameShotId,485252/

It would probably never have gone into a situation where its nostrils are underwater and I don't think a horse has the reflex to exhale in such a case.

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Indra was here (20756) on 1/12/2013 9:36 AM · edited · Permalink · Report

Tentative Name: Gameplay Feature: Monster Splicing

Description:
Games which feature the combining of two or more monsters to introduce a new species of monster is a major or minor gameplay element.

Note:
Until further notice, the term 'monster' should be limited to creatures resembling fantasy-type or sci-fi manipulated creatures. Up to this point it is still unclear if 'monsters' is just a place holder name that may one day include any variation of life form, including people, domesticated animals, or even cybernetic entities. Until that line has been established, use popular use of the term 'monster' in gaming.

Example Games: Not every -mon game has this feature apparently.
More specifically:

  • Series: Digital Devil/Megami Tensei
  • Series: Monster Rancher
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Donatello (466) on 1/12/2013 9:39 AM · Permalink · Report

Again, Megami Tensei games.

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Opipeuter (17207) on 1/12/2013 12:25 PM · Permalink · Report

The "Monster" subseries of the Dragon Quest games has a large focus of on monster breeding and merging.

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Indra was here (20756) on 1/23/2013 1:01 PM · Permalink · Report

Found better alternative for previous Monster Combination title. Monster Splicing.

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Donatello (466) on 1/12/2013 9:43 AM · Permalink · Report

Also, I think browsing game groups should be made MUCH easier, accessible and convenient for everyone. To start with that, every "series" game group should be renamed in the format of other game groups, ie so that you don't have "Fallout series" but "Series: Fallout".

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Indra was here (20756) on 1/12/2013 9:50 AM · edited · Permalink · Report

Seconded.
presses imaginary Like button

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Patrick Bregger (298879) on 1/12/2013 10:13 AM · edited · Permalink · Report

I don't see advantage. The result would be that 90% of the game groups start with S and make the game group browser impossible to navigate. It makes sense to order groups which deal with special subjects, so we can list all "gameplay feature" groups to see what is missing. The game group browser is practically an alphabetical listing of all series game groups anway (with a few other groups sprinkled in).

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Indra was here (20756) on 1/12/2013 10:16 AM · Permalink · Report

[Q --start Patrick Bregger wrote--]I don't see advantage. [/Q --end Patrick Bregger wrote--]It's an OCD thing. :p

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Donatello (466) on 1/12/2013 2:30 PM · Permalink · Report

[Q --start Patrick Bregger wrote--]I don't see advantage. The result would be that 90% of the game groups start with S and make the game group browser impossible to navigate. It makes sense to order groups which deal with special subjects, so we can list all "gameplay feature" groups to see what is missing. The game group browser is practically an alphabetical listing of all series game groups anway (with a few other groups sprinkled in). [/Q --end Patrick Bregger wrote--]

I don't see the point of browsing series groups anyway. If I want to do that, I can easily search for a particular game in the series. However, stuff such as blacksmithing, alchemy or games with dating etc are much more important for browsing, since I might not find them otherwise.

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Indra was here (20756) on 1/12/2013 10:03 AM · edited · Permalink · Report

Tentative Name: Gameplay Feature: Monster Evolution

Description:
Games where player-owned or player-controllable monsters, after fulfilling certain requirements (e.g. level or experience) evolve into a different or more powerful version of themselves (i.e. new species).

Note:
Until further notice, the term 'monster' should be limited to creatures resembling fantasy-type or sci-fi manipulated creatures. Up to this point it is still unclear if 'monsters' is just a place holder name that may one day include any variation of life form, including people, domesticated animals, or even cybernetic entities. Until that line has been established, use popular use of the term 'monster' in gaming.

Example Games:

  • Lufia II: Rise of the Sinistrals
  • Zanzarah
  • Series: Spore
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lilalurl (733) on 1/12/2013 10:31 AM · Permalink · Report

The Capsule Monsters in Lufia II: http://www.mobygames.com/game/snes/lufia-ii-rise-of-the-sinistrals

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chirinea (47504) on 1/12/2013 2:59 PM · Permalink · Report

I guess it is time to give this thread a proper title.

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Indra was here (20756) on 1/13/2013 2:09 PM · edited · Permalink · Report

And just for the record, I'm just posting suggestions for game groups that will stay in the forum for weeks and will no doubt not end up being a game group and will eventually be lost in the forum limbo of ignoring stuff...and you wonder why anyone bothers to do stuff anymore. sarcasm implied

Moving on.

There's has been a few things that has been bugging me ever since I've played RPGs. Most obvious, different gaming background results in different RPG fans. Though more specifically, those disillusioned adventure lovers who play RPGs for the story, not for its statistical character development.

throws digital feces at disillusioned adventure gamers and runs away
Moving on.

So I've noticed that having a character development feature does not necessarily make the game an RPG...and more importantly, hence this post, there are different methods of character development that should be identified, for character development fanbois such as myself.

Thus far, I've identified some variations...all of which I sincerely hope will be made into game groups or equivalent categories (approver mood depending), and put those other RPG websites to shame:

1. Game Feature: Character Development - Experience/Level Based
The oldest form of character development. Whack enough monsters, gain experience, and level up. Skills are increased automatically. Standard feature in rogue games and usually most early RPGs and many JRPGs.

Other RPG examples include:

  • Series: Bard's Tale
  • Series: Final Fantasy
  • Early Dungeons & Dragons games

Only stat increase is health and damage. How sad.

Non-RPG examples include:

  • N/A. Not applicable. Er. I think.

2. Game Feature: Character Development - Skill Development Based
Skill based character development focuses on continuous repetition of any mentioned skill, resulting in the skill of the character to increase and thus a more powerful character.

Earliest example I can recall of this is Hero's Quest: So You Want To Be A Hero (1989): climb a tree, successful or not, there is a chance the climb skill increases. Recently increased stats turn green

Other examples include:

  • Darklands (1992)
  • Betrayal at Krondor (1993)
  • Lands of Lore: The Throne of Chaos (1993)
  • Series: Elder Scrolls

Non-RPG examples include:

  • Series: The Sims

3. Game Feature: Character Development - Skill Distribution Based
Still level up and whack monsters, however when the character levels up, points may be distributed by the player to his/her liking. Earliest example I can recall is Dragon Wars (1990). Seems to have gained popularity in most modern games.

Other RPG examples include:

  • Series: Diablo
  • Series: Mass Effect. Er, I think.
  • Universe: Dark Eye / Das Schwarze Auge

Non-RPG examples include:

4. Game Feature: Character Development - Training Based
Not entirely sure if this should be mentioned, but what the they. This is somewhat a hybrid and usually an additional feature to an already pre-existing character development feature in the game. This feature introduces an increase in stats, attributes, experience via training.

A somewhat hybrid of the skill development/repetition feature. The most dedicated game to this form of character development I know of is Monster Rancher without being an RPG game itself.

Other RPG examples include:

  • Jagged Alliance 2 (Mercs can train other mercs)
  • Series: Elder Scrolls (find a trainer to level up skill)

Non-RPG examples include:

  • Nobunaga's Ambition II
  • Series: Championship Manager

Yeah. Want these to be game groups.

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vedder (70685) on 1/13/2013 2:16 PM · Permalink · Report

[Q --start Indra was here wrote--]

2. Game Feature: Character Development - Skill Development Based
Skill based character development focuses on continuous repetition of any mentioned skill, resulting in the skill of the character to increase and thus a more powerful character.

Earliest example I can recall of this is Hero's Quest: So You Want To Be A Hero (1989): climb a tree, successful or not, there is a chance the climb skill increases.

Other examples include:

  • Darklands (1992)
  • Betrayal at Krondor (1993)
  • Lands of Lore: The Throne of Chaos (1993)

[/Q --end Indra was here wrote--]

I don't recall Lands of Lore having skills at all. The Elder Scrolls series is a good example though.

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Rola (8485) on 1/13/2013 3:05 PM · edited · Permalink · Report

Indra is right here

As vedder said, true for Daggerfall, Morrowind (famous for "put a paperweight on the run key to hone your skill"), however there are general PC levels. Less known Anvil of Dawn also splits exp gained between weapon or magic (but then you assign levels to various weapon types / magic schools... it's complicated).

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Indra was here (20756) on 1/13/2013 3:33 PM · Permalink · Report

Yeah, Lands of Lore barely qualifies with only three different stats to increase. AD&D is still the worse, where there are only two stats that change per level up: health and damage/hit dice.

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vedder (70685) on 1/13/2013 3:35 PM · Permalink · Report

Ah yes, I remember now. Indeed it qualifies.

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Patrick Bregger (298879) on 1/20/2013 4:44 PM · Permalink · Report

I like those groups. I'll add them if you populate them afterwards.

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Indra was here (20756) on 1/20/2013 4:57 PM · Permalink · Report

OCD ready on standby.

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Patrick Bregger (298879) on 1/20/2013 6:08 PM · edited · Permalink · Report

What about games in which you can buy skills with points after leveling up? Most games with this mechanic I can think of have a mix between skill distribution and skill buying (Gothic, Divinity 2, Drakensang), so those are comfortable in #3, but for example Deus Ex: Human Revolution has skill buying without skill improving. Still dump them under #3?

What about games in which the character improvement is not based on experience points and level ups, but on objects found in the game? For example, System Shock 2 or Dead Space. Similar to experience points in #3, but no level up. Bioshock's ADAM is also similar.

What about games in which the player buys upgrades with money, but has no underlying experience points system? For example, the augmentations in Deus Ex: Invisible War.

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Indra was here (20756) on 1/20/2013 6:25 PM · edited · Permalink · Report

What about games in which you can buy skills with points after leveling up? Most games with this mechanic I can think of have a mix between skill distribution and skill buying (Gothic, Divinity 2, Drakensang), so those are comfortable in #3, but for example Deus Ex: Human Revolution has skill buying without skill improving. Still dump them under #3?

I intentionally left those one out. Remember a few RPGs where skills may be acquired through non-traditional means (bonuses, finish a quest get free skill, etc.). For the most part, it's an exception to the rule and not yet a primary means of character development.

What about games in which the character improvement is not based on experience points and level ups, but on objects found in the game? For example, System Shock 2 or Dead Space. Similar to experience points in #3, but no level up.

I'm not brave enough to enter the realm of non-RPG character development. This may well act as a catalyst in that direction for all those action games with diverse forms of character upgrading.

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Indra was here (20756) on 1/23/2013 6:33 PM · edited · Permalink · Report

Gameplay Feature: Character Development - Skill Distribution Based and Gameplay Feature: Character Development - Skill Development Based is now online.

And I have no idea what Patrick is talking about in the Skill Distribution Based game group. :p

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Indra was here (20756) on 1/14/2013 9:25 AM · edited · Permalink · Report

Tentative Name: Game Feature: Gender Selection

Tentative Description:
Games that feature the choice of gender during character creation of one or more characters, usually during character creation; opting the player to choose between a female, male, or an alternate gender (don't ask). Any game that offers the player a choice between two or more genders (including predefined/predesignated characters) qualifies for this game group. The choice of gender should be permanent in effect for the most part of the game.

Limitations:

  • The optional choice of gender selection must be expressed during character creation or during the early stages of the game. Any predefined/story based selection during later stages of gameplay should be excluded from this game group.
  • No, this game group is not about switching between different characters with different genders.
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Rola (8485) on 1/14/2013 9:45 AM · Permalink · Report

Now this is something we really need (in addition to Protagonist: Female group), evident even without thinking of the recent #1reasonwhy campaign etc.

My only question is: if the game offers us a choice between 2 or more predefined male&female characters (see: Kingdom O'Magic), would it qualify?

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vedder (70685) on 1/14/2013 9:55 AM · Permalink · Report

I'd say yes. The group should focus on the ability to select a gender, not on a sub-feature of a character generator.

Limitations should be games where you control more than one character I guess?

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Indra was here (20756) on 1/14/2013 10:16 AM · Permalink · Report

Added Rola's pre-defined characters thingy. Not entirely sure I understand your suggestion?

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vedder (70685) on 1/14/2013 10:57 AM · Permalink · Report

Let me rephrase:

Does StarCraft count, because some of the units you control are female?

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Indra was here (20756) on 1/14/2013 11:00 AM · Permalink · Report

Er. No, because units aren't protagonists? scratches head
Check the revised description, just in case.

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Rola (8485) on 1/14/2013 10:28 AM · edited · Permalink · Report

If we agree on the limitations, this group could be approved quickly. My thoughts:

  • YES: When you start the game, you *create* a player character, be it male/female/other. Example: NetHack
  • YES: When you start the game, you *create* a *team* of player characters, be they male/female/other. Example: Icewind Dale
  • YES: When you start the game, you have a choice between *predefined* male/female/other characters. Example: Anvil of Dawn, Diablo II
  • NO: You only collect a team of *predefined* male/female characters *during the story*, protagonist is *given*. Example: Planescape: Torment, Anachronox
  • NO: The game features *both* female and male protagonist, but your control of either one is defined by the *story*, not player's choice.
  • NO?: Your *predefined* character may *change gender* (or become own alter ego) at player's discretion. Example: The Devil Inside.
  • NO: Your character's gender changes at some point of the *story*. Example: Rex Nebular and the Cosmic Gender Bender.
  • user avatar

    Indra was here (20756) on 1/14/2013 10:47 AM · Permalink · Report

    Done. I think.

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    j.raido 【雷堂嬢太朗】 (93195) on 1/20/2013 6:18 PM · edited · Permalink · Report

    What about if you have two player characters, one of each gender, that you can freely switch between at any time? Examples: Summon Night Ex-thèse, Summon Night Granthese, Zwei!!

    Additional complicating factor for the Summon Night games: The story changes slightly depending on which character the player has chosen as their main protagonist.

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    Indra was here (20756) on 1/20/2013 6:28 PM · Permalink · Report

    Note it's gender selection through character creation, not selecting characters with different genders.

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    Indra was here (20756) on 1/14/2013 9:39 AM · edited · Permalink · Report

    Tentative Name: Gameplay Feature: Divorce

    Description: Games that offer that optionally offer the divorce as an alternate dispute resolution for a wholly or partially player controlled married couple. The player must at least directly control one character in the marriage and apply for divorce. Applying for divorce will result in a non-martial status or similar status, removal of benefits/vices of a marriage, and sometimes inhuman levels of hatred by the divorced character.

    Limitations:

    • A previous martial status must be expressed for a divorce to occur. Breaking up with a boyfriend/girlfriend does not qualify for the purposes of this game group.
    • The player must must control at least one of the disputing married couples. Games where the option of divorce exists, however the player is not in control of either couple should be excluded from this game group.

    Examples:

    • King's Bounty: The Legend
    • Series: The Guild
    • Series: The Sims
    user avatar

    Indra was here (20756) on 1/14/2013 10:48 AM · edited · Permalink · Report

    Now for something not so serious.

    Tentative Name: Protagonist: Electronic / Household appliance

    Description:
    Games where the main protagonist is an electronic, household, or similar appliance. Yes, because game developers are really that bored.

    Example Games:

    • A Kitchen Sink War
    • Floppy Frenzy
    • Rollo and the Brush Brothers

    Games where you get to play a spoon. Life doesn't get duller than that. :p

    user avatar

    Rola (8485) on 1/14/2013 11:10 AM · Permalink · Report

    ...to think that I refrained from asking for Russo-Japanese War group because we have only 3 games...

    user avatar

    Indra was here (20756) on 1/14/2013 11:27 AM · Permalink · Report

    [Q --start Rola wrote--]...to think that I refrained from asking for Russo-Japanese War group because we have only 3 games... [/Q --end Rola wrote--]Two is the official minimal requirement, so go ahead.

    user avatar

    Rola (8485) on 1/14/2013 1:07 PM · Permalink · Report

    I know that, but our skeleton crew staff is so busy that I have reservations before I bother them with some low-priority requests.

    ahem

    user avatar

    Indra was here (20756) on 1/14/2013 1:10 PM · Permalink · Report

    I think I'll take a break from proposing new game groups until I reach 50 or so.

    ahem

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    Rola (8485) on 1/14/2013 1:26 PM · Permalink · Report

    Don't act like a primadonna. I supported some of your proposals above. I just don't want to waste precious time of our few approvers left on "protagonists with mullets".

    Compare: it was already proposed we add sound engine groups (like iMUSE I asked about half year ago), I think these are more important.

    user avatar

    Indra was here (20756) on 1/14/2013 1:39 PM · Permalink · Report

    Different people, different priorities and interests. This is a mood based gig with no professional responsibilities from our part. One of the disadvantages of community based projects that rely on OCD infested contributors for the wheel to turn.

    user avatar

    chirinea (47504) on 1/16/2013 2:50 PM · Permalink · Report

    [Q --start Rola wrote--]I just don't want to waste precious time of our few approvers left on "protagonists with mullets". [/Q --end Rola wrote--]Thank God we already have that one!

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    Indra was here (20756) on 1/15/2013 4:47 PM · edited · Permalink · Report

    In relation to the Gameplay feature: Importable characters game group.

    Tentative Name: Gameplay Feature: Exportable characters

    Games that allow the player to optionally export a character, to be used for another game, sometimes not limited or related to its direct sequel. This feature is usually expressed with the option: Export character.

    To avoid possible confusion, games that are included in this game group should be subject to the following example:

    Character(s) created in game A. Game A has feature: Export character. Character from Game A can be used in Game B. Game A (not Game B) is the one that goes in this game group.

    Note
    Games what have the option to self-import, meaning to export a character, only to be used in the same game (usually for a restarting new game with an developed character), may be included in this game group.

    Limitations

    • Games that do not have an export feature expressed, however other games can import characters from that game regardless, should be excluded from this game group. The feature export character must be expressed to be included in this game group.
    user avatar

    Indra was here (20756) on 1/16/2013 3:30 PM · edited · Permalink · Report

    Tentative Name: Gameplay Feature: In-Game Password Protection

    Description:
    Offline games where an in-game password protection or similar feature is provided to the player to protect his/her character, profile, saved games from use of other people without the players' consent.

    Limitations

    • Online games should be excluded as this usually is a default feature of online gaming.

    Examples

    • Age of Wonders
    user avatar

    Rwolf (22739) on 1/16/2013 10:47 PM · Permalink · Report

    This group name could possibly be confused with the use of passwords for starting at a certain game level, found in some old arcade/platform games, maybe more common on consoles. The latter use is already a selection in the game specs form.

    user avatar

    Cavalary (11445) on 1/17/2013 12:40 AM · Permalink · Report

    Password protection of player data?

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    Indra was here (20756) on 1/17/2013 9:49 AM · Permalink · Report

    Will fix these later. Jakarta is experiencing a mega flood. Photo details on meine Facebook page.

    I'm still drying off.

    user avatar

    Indra was here (20756) on 1/20/2013 12:09 PM · edited · Permalink · Report

    Tentative Name: Gameplay Feature: Achievements

    Description:
    Games that record practically a lot of information of what the player is doing throughout the game, from convincing mutated chickens into fighting crime to the number of g-strings stolen from a Swedish embassy. Any game what records information for fun's sake not really essential to completing the game should qualify for this game group.

    Some games several pages of information in plain text regarding a players' accomplishments, while others provide introduce this feature as a challenge to be optionally achieved, hence achievement. If there is still confusion as to what this may refer to, see view contribution rating on your MobyGames personal account information as a similar template.

    For some strange reason, contributors insist on not providing screenshots of this type of information to MobyGames.

    Limitations

    • Games where achievement information are not provided within in-game (provided externally (e.g. online: Steam, Xbox Live, etc.) should be excluded from this game group.
    • Completing a scenario is not considered an achievement if the only information offered is completing scenarios.

    Examples

    • Series: Elder Scrolls (some of them)
    • Series: Fable
    • Series: Grand Theft Auto (some of them)
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    Kabushi (260849) on 1/20/2013 12:19 PM · Permalink · Report

    This is already a tech spec on some platforms.

    user avatar

    Indra was here (20756) on 1/20/2013 12:19 PM · Permalink · Report

    Yeah, I found that a bit weird. Anyway, that's somewhat interpreted as an online thing.

    user avatar

    Patrick Bregger (298879) on 1/20/2013 1:05 PM · Permalink · Report

    Exclude achievements which are counted outside the game (Steam, Xbox Live, etc.)

    user avatar

    Indra was here (20756) on 1/20/2013 1:24 PM · Permalink · Report

    Fixed. Danke.

    user avatar

    Patrick Bregger (298879) on 1/20/2013 2:17 PM · Permalink · Report

    What about add-ons, usually DLC, which add additional achievements to the game? (For example the Mass Effects ones). Do the DLC go into the group or are the new achievements only counted towards the main game?

    user avatar

    Indra was here (20756) on 1/20/2013 4:53 PM · Permalink · Report

    [Q --start Patrick Bregger wrote--]What about add-ons, usually DLC, which add additional achievements to the game? (For example the Mass Effects ones). Do the DLC go into the group or are the new achievements only counted towards the main game? [/Q --end Patrick Bregger wrote--] I've always had a problem with this.

    The way I see it, specifically for game groups, add-ons, DLCs, expansions, etc., should only have game groups attached to them that are unique to that DLC/add-on.

    Example:

    Elder Scrolls: Skyrim has a lot of game group features. Those features should not be added any DLC, add-on, or expansion of Skyrim.

    One of its DLCs, Hearthfire however has a 'Games in which you can have children' feature, which should not be added to the main game.

    user avatar

    Patrick Bregger (298879) on 2/2/2013 9:49 PM · Permalink · Report

    My approver asked:

    No limitations on sports games? A lot of them record statistical achievements.
    user avatar

    Indra was here (20756) on 2/2/2013 10:04 PM · Permalink · Report

    Rarely play sports games, so I may need to be enlightened as to why sports games may require an additional limitation.

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    Indra was here (20756) on 1/20/2013 12:18 PM · edited · Permalink · Report

    Tentative Name: Gameplay Feature: Bestiary

    Description:
    Games that feature a compendium of units, including however not limited to animals, plants, birds, aliens, creatures, or anything remotely resembling a non-player character (NPC), also vehicles, structures, and other units; while providing a detailed description of the mentioned subject, which may or may not include habits, strengths and weakness, which may be used for gameplay purposes or strictly as an informational feature.

    Note
    Bestiary by definition is traditionally only used to identify lifeforms. However, for the purposes of this game group, non-living subjects should also be included.

    [enter screenshot example here]

    Limitations

    • To be limited to a bestiary available in-game. Bestiaries provided via manual or non-digital version should be excluded from this game group.
    • To be limited from games that have a encyclopedia feature within the game, which offer additional information other than in-game units and creatures. Games with an encyclopedia feature should go into that game group instead.

    Example Games:

    • Series: Dungeon Siege - Excluding that last terrible version by Square Enix.
    • Series: Monster Rancher
    user avatar

    Rola (8485) on 1/20/2013 4:36 PM · Permalink · Report

    Perfect example for a bestiary: http://www.mobygames.com/game/windows/warhammer-shadow-of-the-horned-rat/screenshots/gameShotId,23064/

    I really like #23 & #24. Problem is, sometimes it's hard to differentiate between them. Would it be bad to combine these groups?

    What are the limitations? Is this enough:

    http://www.mobygames.com/game/dos/battle-isle-2200/screenshots/gameShotId,333440/
    http://www.mobygames.com/game/dos/aces-of-the-pacific/screenshots/gameShotId,9869/
    http://www.mobygames.com/game/windows/panzer-corps/screenshots/gameShotId,601920/

    I guess Windows Help format doesn't count as in-game? (see: Age of Empires)

    user avatar

    Indra was here (20756) on 1/20/2013 4:49 PM · Permalink · Report

    Sheeid. Forgot about vehicle compendiums. Dunno what to call that game group. Vehicle compendium? Is that a real term?

    user avatar

    Rola (8485) on 1/20/2013 4:52 PM · edited · Permalink · Report

    Heavens no, I considered them under #24 (Encyclopedia).

    One of the limitations should be that mere stats isn't enough. It also has to be accessible anytime, so not "only stats for stuff you're carrying". It's OK if it's expanding gradually (the more beast you encounter...).

    user avatar

    Indra was here (20756) on 1/20/2013 4:55 PM · edited · Permalink · Report

    Not entirely sure if we should either. Encyclopedias should not limit itself only to unit information.

    Don't suppose you've got screenshots in English. Trying to add screenshots to these proposals and the gazilion game groups already on file.

    user avatar

    Rola (8485) on 1/20/2013 4:59 PM · edited · Permalink · Report

    People usually submit screenshots depicting game action, not interface. I have difficulty finding screens on that damned Internet of pilot kill record for popular flightsims.

    http://www.mobygames.com/game/windows/star-wars-galactic-battlegrounds/screenshots/gameShotId,21216/

    user avatar

    Indra was here (20756) on 1/20/2013 5:02 PM · Permalink · Report

    I've been noticing that lately. You'd think we'd attach every bit of information just for free points. Anyway, keep a look out and let me know. Just browsing through these screenshots is giving me tons of ideas.

    At least our game groups don't looks as crappy as the ones on GB with one-two liner descriptions. :p

    user avatar

    Rola (8485) on 1/20/2013 5:03 PM · Permalink · Report

    Need ideas? Go to uvlist.net

    user avatar

    Donatello (466) on 1/20/2013 5:26 PM · Permalink · Report

    [Q --start Indra was here wrote--]Tentative Name: Gameplay Feature: Bestiary

    Description:
    Games that feature a compendium of animals, plants, birds, aliens, or anything remotely resembling a non-player character (NPC), while providing a detailed description of the mentioned creature, which may or may not include habits, strengths and weakness, which used for gameplay purposes or strictly as an informational feature.

    [enter screenshot example here]

    Limitations

    • To be limited to a bestiary available in-game. Bestiaries provided via manual or non-digital version should be excluded from this game group.

    Example Games:

    • Series: Dungeon Siege - Excluding that last terrible version by Square Enix.
    • Series: Monster Rancher [/Q --end Indra was here wrote--] This must happen. Now.
    user avatar

    Rwolf (22739) on 1/21/2013 5:13 AM · Permalink · Report

    Another example: Beyond Good & Evil, where making the bestiary by taking photos is the job of the protagonist.

    X-com series could also be considered one, where you capture aliens to make progress.

    user avatar

    Rola (8485) on 1/21/2013 3:38 PM · Permalink · Report

    "X-Com" is a fine example of why I wanted to merge Bestiary & Encyclopedia, because its Ufopaedia can be seen as both.

    user avatar

    Indra was here (20756) on 1/21/2013 4:07 PM · Permalink · Report

    [Q --start Rola wrote--]"X-Com" is a fine example of why I wanted to merge Bestiary & Encyclopedia, because its Ufopaedia can be seen as both. [/Q --end Rola wrote--]I'm beginning to wonder if this should be merged.

    I'm guessing one should be an encyclopedia (information other than units also available) and the other a compendium. Throw away the bestiary term.

    user avatar

    Rola (8485) on 1/21/2013 9:46 PM · edited · Permalink · Report

    Now I'm even more confused :)

    As I said: I like the idea, it's useful. I'm just not certain where one group ends and where starts another.

    user avatar

    Indra was here (20756) on 1/23/2013 12:15 PM · edited · Permalink · Report

    [Q --start Rola wrote--]I'm just not certain where one group ends and where starts another. [/Q --end Rola wrote--]If we were to include everything (everything referring to 'games that have detailed unit description not to be confused with an encyclopedia') then there's a matter of the titling.

    Unless of course we'd just use Bestiary and I'd tinker with the description a bit so it includes 'everything'.

    [note] Description updated. Review at your leisure.

    user avatar

    Rola (8485) on 2/3/2013 3:22 AM · edited · Permalink · Report

    Indra, please do something about this issue. I keep recalling game titles, I want to add them, but I'm still confused.

    For me, given the current descriptions, a bestiary is a subset of encyclopedia. Where's the line? Also, should a game added to encyclopedia group be also in bestiary group?

    If you still insist on two groups, I understand them this way:

  • Bestiary: an in-game compendium on featured NPCs, enemies/units, objects/items or locations
  • Encyclopedia: extends beyond a bestiary, as it also covers other aspects, real life references (for example historical or military background) Both must be accessible at any point of gameplay (if a game only displays item/monster descriptions when you're in possession/contact with them, it shouldn't count). So WH40K Final Liberation features only a bestiary? And the city-sim Pharaoh has encyclopedia (because it has entries on real Egyptian buildings etc.)? How would you categorize this one then? http://www.mobygames.com/game/dos/fall-wei-1939/screenshots/gameShotId,485500/
  • user avatar

    Indra was here (20756) on 2/3/2013 3:48 AM · edited · Permalink · Report

    [Q --start Rola wrote--] If you still insist on two groups, I understand them this way:

  • Bestiary: an in-game compendium on featured NPCs, enemies/units, objects/items or locations
  • Encyclopedia: extends beyond a bestiary, as it also covers other gameplay aspects, real life references (for example historical or military background) Both must be accessible at any point of gameplay (if a game only displays item/monster descriptions when you're in possession/contact with them, it shouldn't count). So WH40K Final Liberation features only a bestiary? And the city-sim Pharaoh has encyclopedia (because it has entries on real Egyptian buildings etc.)? How would you categorize this one then? http://www.mobygames.com/game/dos/fall-wei-1939/screenshots/gameShotId,485500/ [/Q --end Rola wrote--] Don't really insist on either way at the moment. Former discussions may suggest that it may be prudent to merge this, though I prefer to examine further input before giving my personal judgement on this matter. So far we have three alternatives:
    • Three Game Group alternative
      This was my initial suggestion. The three game groups would be:
      1. Bestiary for biological life forms or variant life forms.
      2. Bestiary for non-biological life forms or variant non-life forms.
      3. Encyclopedia which may or may not include a bestiary. NOTE: Some games put their bestiary information in the journal section e.g. Witcher. Basically a bestiary usually has a separate section that compiles this information for easy access, may it be called a bestiary, part of a journal, or part of the encyclopedia. Not entirely sure if objects/items are to be considered, should/should not be part of the bestiary/compendium. Argument:
      Significant amount of games that follow this three different approach pattern. Some games only identify a biological creature bestiary, some games only identify a non-biological creature bestiary, some games have an encyclopedia explaining everything except a bestiary (this last example, Alpha Centauri because units are player-made.
    • Two Game Group alternative
      #1 and #2 of the three game group alternative to be merged. Argument:
      Significant amount games have bestiaries regardless of whether or not it is a biological life form.
    • One Game Group alternative
      Merge them all. Argument:
      Merge bestiaries and encyclopedias as some games with encyclopedias have bestiaries incorporated in its contents.
    --- Tentative Personal Opinion:
    For now, I'm leaning towards the two group alternative. Simply because the bestiary game group focuses only on NPCs/enemies/friendlies. The encyclopedia focuses on various game concepts, including NPCs/enemies/friendlies. --- For that WWII game example, if it only describes NPCs/enemies/friendlies, I'd put that in the bestiary game group. If it has additional information, such as non-NPC/enemies/friendlies information (e.g. game concepts, history, something you'd expect from a Sid Meier encyclopedia) then it goes to the encyclopedia game group. Looks like it goes to the bestiary only game group. Lemme know if I'm confusing you. :p
  • user avatar

    Indra was here (20756) on 2/3/2013 4:01 AM · Permalink · Report

    It would be more easier if more users provide input on what they expect such game groups would include and not include, so we can identify what users consider to be interesting.

    user avatar

    Cavalary (11445) on 2/3/2013 1:21 PM · Permalink · Report

    For me, an in-game encyclopedia includes many things, such as concepts used in game, real-life elements that are (or, who knows, may not necessarily be) also used in game, technologies/upgrades, buildings... A bestiary would imply, at least to my mind, just a list of creatures that can be found in game, whether it's all available from the beginning or gets filled in as you encounter (or become able to create/train/use) creatures. I have issues with including games with lists of largely fully (or even primarily) mechanical units in the bestiary group, as the term to me refers to biological, hybrid (cyborgs), magical or incorporeal creatures. Maybe if you insist on adding those, such as for wargames that have unit lists, too, it should be something like "unit encyclopedia"... Which'll only confuse it with the proper encyclopedia group more...

    As for games with encyclopedia always including bestiary, not necessarily. Fate of the World has encyclopedia without bestiary because it doesn't have units.

    user avatar

    Indra was here (20756) on 2/3/2013 1:47 PM · edited · Permalink · Report

    [Q --start Cavalary wrote--]For me, an in-game encyclopedia includes many things, such as concepts used in game, real-life elements that are (or, who knows, may not necessarily be) also used in game, technologies/upgrades, buildings... A bestiary would imply, at least to my mind, just a list of creatures that can be found in game, whether it's all available from the beginning or gets filled in as you encounter (or become able to create/train/use) creatures. I have issues with including games with lists of largely fully (or even primarily) mechanical units in the bestiary group, as the term to me refers to biological, hybrid (cyborgs), magical or incorporeal creatures. Maybe if you insist on adding those, such as for wargames that have unit lists, too, it should be something like "unit encyclopedia"... Which'll only confuse it with the proper encyclopedia group more...

    As for games with encyclopedia always including bestiary, not necessarily. Fate of the World has encyclopedia without bestiary because it doesn't have units. [/Q --end Cavalary wrote--] So I gather your vote is for the three game group alternative? One mechanical bestiary, one mechanical 'bestiary', and one encyclopedia.

    Maybe we really should have a voting system of sorts, so no one person gets a dictatorship vote on this. Hell, users should vote and show support for any game group if we want this stuff to be implemented, rather than constant debates until it gets ignored.

    Current Vote:
    For three group alternative - (One biological, one mechanical, one encyclopedia)
    0 vote(s)-

    For two group alternative - (One merged bestiary, one encyclopedia)
    1 vote(s) - Cavalary, Indra

    For one group alternative - (Merge bestiary and encyclopedia)
    0 vote(s)

    Current Result
    Two group alternative. Lead by 2 vote(s).

    If this isn't a community based decision, I don't know what is.
    Please vote.

    Ironic, since I don't even believe in democracy.

    user avatar

    Cavalary (11445) on 2/3/2013 3:17 PM · Permalink · Report

    Without a forum voting system, could just put up several site polls at once and if they can't be active on front page at once too then link to them on here so at least the... handful of people who check the forums will go there (or know to look for them under past polls, even if they never showed up on front page) and vote.

    As for what my vote is... not entirely sure, but I'll say I'm going for two groups too, just with another name for the units one. Encyclopedia is handy to list as a feature, and definitely separate, and if you also want to add the unit listing one... There's no logical reason to separate a listing of biological and magical units from one of mechanical ones, but if you want to lump them together I think another name would be more appropriate for the group.

    user avatar

    Indra was here (20756) on 2/3/2013 3:26 PM · Permalink · Report

    [Q --start Cavalary wrote--]...but if you want to lump them together I think another name would be more appropriate for the group. [/Q --end Cavalary wrote--] I still haven't found an appropriate name for it. Best I could think of was Bestiary / Compendium.

    No idea how that translates into the heads of people reading that title.

    Note: Fixed your vote and creating a new voting post.

    user avatar

    Indra was here (20756) on 2/3/2013 3:59 PM · edited · Permalink · Report

    [See first post and other posts for additional information]

    Motion:
    Which of the three alternatives would you like to see implemented?

    Current Vote:

    • For the three separate group alternative.
      1. One group containing a biological / life form only bestiary.
      2. One group containing a mechanical / non-life form only compendium.
      3. One group containing an encyclopedia, which may or may not include the two above. 0 vote(s)
    • For the two separate group alternative.
      1. One group containing a biological / life form and a mechanical / non-life form bestiary / compendium (note: title for this group undecided).
      2. One group containing an encyclopedia, which may or may not include the above. 2 vote(s) - Cavalary, Indra.
    • For the one merged group alternative.
      1. One group containing an encyclopedia, which may or may not include a biological / life form and a mechanical / non-life form bestiary / compendium. 4 vote(s) - GTramps, Rola, Rwolf, TotalAnarchy

    Current Result
    One merged group lead by 2 vote(s).

    user avatar

    Rola (8485) on 2/3/2013 9:47 PM · edited · Permalink · Report

    I understand the difference between the two, have seen both pure bestiary (just units) and pure encyclopedia (no units), but usually it's something in between, so I opt for a single group. Less doubts when adding games to the group ("oh, should it go to this one or that one?").

    user avatar

    Rwolf (22739) on 2/4/2013 2:49 AM · Permalink · Report

    I'd go for simplicity, using one group for all forms. (They're all pixels anyway. :-P)

    user avatar

    GTramp (81965) on 2/4/2013 5:17 AM · Permalink · Report

    I vote for a single group to bind them all.

    user avatar

    CalaisianMindthief (8172) on 2/4/2013 5:24 AM · Permalink · Report

    I vote for one merged group as well.

    user avatar

    Fred VT (25953) on 8/17/2013 2:57 PM · Permalink · Report

    I'm all for a group for games with a bestiary/compendium. Usually they don't bother having a distinction between monsters/humanoids/mechanical enemies, etc.

    user avatar

    Indra was here (20756) on 1/20/2013 12:25 PM · edited · Permalink · Report

    Tentative Name: Gameplay Feature: Encyclopedia

    Description:
    Games which provide an in-game encyclopedia providing detailed information regarding the various concepts within the game, including non-gameplay related material.

    Example Games:

    • Sid Meier's Civilization
    • Actually, practically all strategy games by Sid Meier. :p
    user avatar

    Indra was here (20756) on 1/20/2013 12:43 PM · edited · Permalink · Report

    Tentative Name: Gameplay Feature: Kill List

    Description:
    Games that provide detailed information of successful kills a player has successfully...er...killed. Detailed information refers to different types of targets the player has incapacitated, including if available, a non-lethal incapacitations.

    Target kills may also include vehicles, structures, or anything specific enough to be killed, destroyed, or incapacitated.

    Example Kill List

    • Pikachu look-alike: 146,779,323 killed. My spelling autocorrect suggests that "Pikachu" be replaced with spinach. o_O
    • German contributors: 25 killed. 5 self-imploded.
    • Swedish strippers: 11 killed. 2 reserved for house calls.
    • Endonesian pirates: 2 killed. 3 bribed.

    Limitations

    • Games that only provide information regarding a total number of enemies killed without providing additional information to the different types of enemies that are killed as aforementioned in the example above, should be excluded from this game group.
    • If the game has only one type of enemy to be vanquished and provides information regarding kills in that regard, should also be excluded from this game group. Various and detailed accounts of kills should be expressed in this regard.
    • Games where the kill list is only provided at the end of a scenario or end game, should be excluded from this game group. Information regarding the kill list must be accessible to the player throughout the game or optionally accessible during gameplay (e.g. viewed at the town center).

    Example Games:

    • Crusader: No Remorse (later version got lazy)
    • S.T.A.L.K.E.R. Shadow of Chernobyl (later versions got lazy)
    user avatar

    Rola (8485) on 1/20/2013 4:29 PM · Permalink · Report

    Fallout 1 & 2
    Many combat flight simulators.

    user avatar

    Pseudo_Intellectual (66274) on 1/21/2013 6:56 PM · Permalink · Report

    Nethack, probably many other roguelikes

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    Indra was here (20756) on 1/20/2013 1:25 PM · edited · Permalink · Report

    Tentative Name: Gameplay Feature: Boss Key

    Description:
    Games which provide disgruntled slagging employees an extremely small chance to fool their German-descendant bosses while playing video games during working hours by activating a boss key or similar panic program, which displays a screenshot or small utility mimicking a business-related program.

    Made obsolete by multitasking operating systems, in which the player need only to minimize the game window or switch to another application.


    The boss key from Tetris (1987) when pressing the Esc key.

    Example Games:

    user avatar

    Pseudo_Intellectual (66274) on 1/21/2013 6:59 PM · Permalink · Report

    just googling site:mobygames.com "boss key" turns up dozens

    user avatar

    Indra was here (20756) on 1/23/2013 8:09 AM · edited · Permalink · Report

    Fixed. Now how to make that screenshot resolution smaller. Hmm.

    Or perhaps using three screenshots with smaller resolutions? Currently obsessed with adding screenshots to game groups.

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    Rola (8485) on 1/23/2013 4:53 PM · edited · Permalink · Report

    Better fix the description to something serious and this group should be approved right away. Or let me do it for you:

    Games which provide a keyboard shortcut (or menu option), which displays a screenshot or small utility mimicking a business-related program or operating system, in order to hide player's activity (playing the game) from their real life boss / parent / teacher / spouse. Sometimes called panic button.

    Made obsolete by multitasking operating systems, in which you can simply minimize game window or switch to another application.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boss_key

    Sent to Sciere.

    EDIT: it's online! Big thanks to lightning-fast Sciere!

    http://www.mobygames.com/game-group/games-with-boss-key/

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    Indra was here (20756) on 1/23/2013 5:53 PM · Permalink · Report

    Don't forget to mention the Germans. Must make fun of Germans. :p

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    Rola (8485) on 1/23/2013 6:15 PM · Permalink · Report

    Everyone knows that Rola_hates_Germans. Why would I still play Wolfenstein 3D after 20 years? (added the free browser port!)

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    Indra was here (20756) on 1/23/2013 6:28 PM · Permalink · Report

    Hey, I'm the only racist here in MG. Personally I prefer the term equal opportunity offender, but the left wing liberals sure like their jargons. Everyone should get poked at once in awhile and get over it.

    shakes fist at left wing nuts

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    Indra was here (20756) on 1/27/2013 12:51 PM · edited · Permalink · Report

    [Q --start Rola wrote--] EDIT: it's online! Big thanks to lightning-fast Sciere!

    http://www.mobygames.com/game-group/games-with-boss-key/ [/Q --end Rola wrote--]Is that supposed to have no games in there?

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    Rola (8485) on 1/27/2013 3:55 PM · Permalink · Report

    I've submitted a dozen already (go on, add more). Remember there's the need of approval? Don't complain, Sciere does that instantly-online thing, it saves his time if the requester adds the titles.

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    Indra was here (20756) on 1/20/2013 5:57 PM · edited · Permalink · Report

    Tentative Name: Gameplay Feature: Crime

    Description: Games where breaking the law is a minor or major gameplay feature, forcing the player to act accordingly or suffer the consequences if the player is caught engaging in a criminal act. Criminal actions may range from picking your nose in public to murdering a refrigerator.

    Example
    To qualify for this game group the game must recognize the following elements:

    • The player may optionally commit what may deemed to be a crime by the game.
    • The player if caught in action of a crime will result in law enforcement officers attempting to arrest the player.
    • The player if caught by law enforcement officers may attempt to run or submit with consequence of jail time, fine, or other similar consequences.
    • Attempting to run or avoid capture will result in law enforcement officers to act violently towards the player and may (when available) result a bounty on the player.

    Games where all actions available to the player are crime-based actions may be included in this game group.

    Limitations

    • Games where criminal actions are forced upon the player to take (i.e. story) should be excluded from this game group, unless the player may still optionally participate in non-plot criminal activities.
    • This is not a crime themed or law enforcement themed game group. Emphasis of games in this game group is limited to actions that the player may optionally engage in. Games where the player criminal by plot without any additional criminal actions to participate in should be excluded from this game group.

    Example Games:

    • Series: Elder Scrolls
    • Series: Grand Theft Auto
    • Series: Ultima
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    Indra was here (20756) on 1/23/2013 12:50 PM · edited · Permalink · Report

    Tentative Name: Gameplay Feature: Mounted Combat

    Description:
    Games which optionally allow the player to participate in mounted combat; a combat alternative where the player controlled avatar mounts a horse, beast, or equivalent creature into combat. Mounted combat may introduce additional combat features or benefits unique only when mounted (e.g. lance damage, charge, etc.) not available when unmounted.

    Mounts may not be available in the beginning of the game and must be purchased or obtained as the game progresses. Mounted units are sometimes designated as cavalry.

    To qualify for this game group, the player controlled character must:

    • 1. Be able to mount and dismount at will or at least not be restricted for the majority of the game to do so.
    • 2. Participate in combat while mounted.

    Limitations

    • Games where mounting or riding a horse or creature is a feature, however does not include any distinguishable form of mounted-type combat or cannot attack while mounted should be excluded from this game group. Thus, games such as Series: Elder Scrolls should be excluded from this game group.
    • Games that do not feature a dismount option or the player controlled character loses the ability to dismount and engage in non-mounted combat should be excluded from this game group.
    • Games where the player controlled character starts already mounted without the option to dismount should be excluded from this game group.
    • Mounting a machine-based vehicle or anything non-living is not the intention of this game group and should be excluded from this game group.

    Example Games:

    • Series: Mount&Blade
    • Ultima VI: The False Prophet
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    Rola (8485) on 1/23/2013 7:12 PM · Permalink · Report

    Cool idea (in-game; I steer clear from horses in real life! :D), description looks ready for approval.

    Rarer examples: http://www.mobygames.com/game/amiga/golden-axe/screenshots/gameShotId,50554/

    I take that shooting from the saddle counts? http://www.mobygames.com/game/windows/outcast/screenshots/gameShotId,1622/

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    lilalurl (733) on 1/23/2013 7:34 PM · Permalink · Report

    Many Koei's Warriors game. At least Dynasty Warriors 4, 5 and 6, Warriors Orochi 1 and 2, Samurai Warriors 2. Probably most of the others but I cannot guarantee.

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    Indra was here (20756) on 1/23/2013 1:24 PM · edited · Permalink · Report

    Tentative Name: Gameplay Feature: Decapitation

    Description: Games which feature separating the body and the head of an enemy via neck in a satisfying blow with a melee weapon or similar close combat object, leading to an unsurprising death. Unless the head starts talking and the body goes off shopping.

    Limitations

    • Not to be confused with head shots or severe cases of migraine.

    Example Games

    • Elder Scrolls: Skyrim
    • Can't think of anything else actually.
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    Rola (8485) on 1/23/2013 4:17 PM · edited · Permalink · Report

    29: Decapitation, #6 headshot, #7 dismemberment... as I said already, I'd make a single group for complex damage models.

    How many groups would this game belong to? Die by the Sword

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    Indra was here (20756) on 1/23/2013 6:49 PM · edited · Permalink · Report

    [Q --start Rola wrote--]#29: Decapitation, #6 headshot, #7 dismemberment... as I said already, I'd make a single group for complex damage models.

    How many groups would this game belong to? Die by the Sword [/Q --end Rola wrote--] I usually categorize game groups if there are enough games and more importantly interest to warrant distinction. The more you know about any given subject, the more noticeable the person is to the differences. That's how any category is born: different platforms, different genres, different gender groups, different airplane and car type game groups, etc.

    In this case, I judge headshots, decapitations, to be unique enough to be separated from any anatomical dismemberment. I figure any personal fetish that a MobyGamer has, regardless if it is not shared by others, should be recognized. I used this reasoning when approving those airplane, car game groups, or practically any unpopular game group proposed throughout the years by only one user.

    If someone's interested, it's reason enough.

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    Pseudo_Intellectual (66274) on 1/23/2013 6:57 PM · Permalink · Report

    Time Killers goes in the wash here somewhere also...

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    Indra was here (20756) on 1/23/2013 1:32 PM · edited · Permalink · Report

    Tentative Name: Gameplay Feature: Finishing Move

    Description:
    Versus fighting games which feature the player controllable character executing a unique killing blow to the opponent, ranging from unzipping his/her fly or a booking a one way ticket to Somalia. Opponents must first be critically weakened (usually rendering the opponent incapacitated) before the coup de grâce can be executed.

    First popularized into mainstream gaming by Mortal Kombat with the introduction of an optional finishing move called a fatality.

    Example Games:

    • Anything featuring Jean-Claude Van Damme. :p
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    Rola (8485) on 1/23/2013 4:15 PM · Permalink · Report

    ^^ a.k.a. "fatality"

    Examples: Mortal Kombat series was famous for its over-the-top gory finishes

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    Indra was here (20756) on 1/23/2013 2:00 PM · edited · Permalink · Report

    Tentative Name: Configurable Multi-Window Interface

    Description:
    Games which feature the game interface consisting of multiple windows, most of which (usually including the main game interface) may be moved, rearranged, and re-sized to the player's leisure.

    Limitations

    • This is not a windowed-mode game group. Games which only have one window, fixed windows, or only have pop-up message windows should be excluded from this game group.

    Examples

    • Age of Wonders
    • Outpost
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    Rola (8485) on 1/23/2013 3:48 PM · Permalink · Report

    ^^better name

    Limitations: pop-up message windows don't count. Fixed multi-window interface (like: Deadlock: Planetary Conquest) doesn't count.

    Another fine example would be The Legacy: Realm of Terror

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    vedder (70685) on 1/23/2013 4:34 PM · Permalink · Report

    Split-screen multiplayer games should not be included I assume?

    Sim City would fit I guess.

    Would Space Hulk and Hired Guns count?

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    Rola (8485) on 1/23/2013 4:58 PM · Permalink · Report

    That's why I added limitations and changed the name to "configurable...". Can you open/close/resize/move windows in Space Hulk? No.

    That's how I understand Indra's intention. Because if we start to list games which feature few windows, most strategy games would fit and we'd have to add thousands of titles.

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    lilalurl (733) on 1/23/2013 5:17 PM · Permalink · Report

    Amiga version of Colonization

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    Pseudo_Intellectual (66274) on 1/23/2013 7:03 PM · Permalink · Report

    Dare to Dream, Civ 2, from the looks of things some of Icom's MacVentures on some platforms, 1991 Magnetic Scrolls games... I know some early Atari ST games boasted this also.

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    Rola (8485) on 1/23/2013 7:16 PM · Permalink · Report

    What makes it harder for us here, is that interface is platform-specific.

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    lilalurl (733) on 1/23/2013 7:39 PM · Permalink · Report

    Indeed. And you just reminded me that the Windows 3.x version of Metal Marines qualify (but not the SNES version) :-)

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    Rwolf (22739) on 1/24/2013 5:07 AM · Permalink · Report

    The Windows-versions of MS Flight Simulator have movable/resizable/multiple-instances of windows in the cockpit view. (Much to my chagrin, I like fixed pit views more.)

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    GTramp (81965) on 1/24/2013 5:28 AM · Permalink · Report

    Morrowind of course.

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    Indra was here (20756) on 1/24/2013 7:28 PM · edited · Permalink · Report

    Tentative Name: Game Feature: Day / Night Cycle.

    Description:
    Games that feature a day and night cycle, including more specific time signifiers such as dawn, afternoon, midnight, etc., usually indicated by an in-game clock, graphical background, or any equivalent feature indicating the passing of time. Games that have this feature may also introduce time specific events, such as different monsters, sub-quests, or equivalent events which may only be accessible at a specified time period.

    Games in this game group must also introduce a direct gameplay consequence

    Example
    [For adventure and role-playing games]
    Character A receives a sub-quest to hunt down vampires. Shops selling wooden stakes are only open during the day. Vampires do not roam during the day. Hence, character A must buy relevant equipment during the day and wait until nightfall to perform the quest.

    [For strategy and simulation games]
    Units are harder to detect, travel less frequently, and gain movement penalties at night. However, they are easier to make camouflage checks and can also commence ambush attacks at night more successfully.

    Limitations

    • Games that feature a day and night cycle, however do not additionally feature unique events related to the differences of time (e.g. only a graphical feature) should be excluded from this game group. This also includes games where time is only presented as a deadline reminder.
    • Games where a day and night feature is only due a trigger effect from a plot-driven quest (e.g. time only advances when finishing a quest) or due to entering a specific location, should be excluded from this game group. A day and night cycle must always be in effect regardless of the player's actions, unless the game in mention is turned based.

    Examples

    • Series: Bard's Tale - different monsters roam at night.
    • Any game where shops close (or only open) at night.
    • Any game where certain events, NPCs, appear only during the day or during the night, etc.
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    lilalurl (733) on 1/24/2013 9:17 PM · edited · Permalink · Report

    • Seiken Densetsu 3: different enemies at day and atnight and some time-specific events.

    • Dune: The kissing scene with Chani need to happen at night (and is mandatory for the game progression).

    Would UFO:EU/X-com count, especially regarding the 1st limitation? There aren't any specific events per se as far as I remember However the battlescape sequences are rather different when playing at night (reduced vision and electro-flares become useful): http://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=Night_Missions

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    Pseudo_Intellectual (66274) on 1/25/2013 2:41 AM · Permalink · Report

    Could be worth mentioning KQ4 in association with the limitation. It was one of the earliest to make a big stink about its day/night cycle.

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    Indra was here (20756) on 1/25/2013 8:58 AM · Permalink · Report

    I kinda skipped KQ4, so not entirely sure what you're specifically referring to.

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    Pseudo_Intellectual (66274) on 1/25/2013 6:11 PM · Permalink · Report

    I believe it illustrates the case of your second limitation.

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    leilei (343) on 1/25/2013 1:42 AM · edited · Permalink · Report

    Castlevania II, and all Quest for Glory's. Also, of course, Terraria

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    Rola (8485) on 1/25/2013 2:28 AM · Permalink · Report

    Again, would MS Flight Simulator fit here?

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    Indra was here (20756) on 1/25/2013 8:57 AM · Permalink · Report

    Updated.

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    Cavalary (11445) on 1/25/2013 2:14 PM · Permalink · Report

    Gothic series / Risen (for NPC behavior), Battle for Wesnoth (damage modifications), Two Worlds (the first one, ghosts only appearing at night)... Did Arcanum have any effects? Might and Magic games? Know they had day and night (day of week had effects in M&M, remember that, the transports), but not sure if anything happened specifically during the day/night anymore... Betrayal at Krondor? Even less memories here...

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    Indra was here (20756) on 1/26/2013 11:53 AM · Permalink · Report

    So far, four game groups hath been approved. Currently trying to fix the messy DC and Marvel universe game groups, found out that there isn't a Werewolf protagonist game group, Michael Jackson is in the black protagonist game group (oooh, so sensitive you people), and while revising game groups, the dang wizard doesn't mention which game group I'm revising.

    Will attempt to standardize game groups without overriding the unique description rule if possible.

    Example of nice and tidy: Marvel universe.

    OCD goes on rampage.

    Note to approvers: send me back or just reject that submission I have with that oversized screenshot. Probably best if I just find a smaller one. Can't do it from my end.

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    Indra was here (20756) on 1/27/2013 10:27 AM · edited · Permalink · Report

    Tentative Name: Game Feature: Upgradeable Anatomy

    Description:
    Games where the player may opt to upgrade a specified anatomy of a player-controlled character, either by replacement or enhance mentioned anatomy (e.g. legs, torso, arms, etc.) through biological, magical, mechanical, or equivalent methods. Upgrading a specified anatomy will effect the skills or abilities of the player-controlled character, usually in a beneficial way.

    Example
    Upgrading eyes with x-ray vision allows the player-controlled character access to abilities not suitable for children.

    Examples

    • Series: Deus Ex
    • Series: Syndicate
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    vedder (70685) on 1/27/2013 10:30 AM · Permalink · Report

    Deus Ex

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    Indra was here (20756) on 1/27/2013 10:33 AM · Permalink · Report

    Played an RPG where there's a rare chance one of your limbs could get cut off and be replaced by a surgeon. In the character sheet it says: Left arm (Goblin). I found that a bit amusing.

    Crusaders of Khazan

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    vedder (70685) on 1/27/2013 12:39 PM · Permalink · Report

    Evolva maybe? I don't think you specifically select limbs to upgrade, but splicing your DNA did cause limbs to start looking differently.

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    CalaisianMindthief (8172) on 1/27/2013 11:31 AM · Permalink · Report

    Hmmm, Space Siege?

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    lilalurl (733) on 1/27/2013 12:35 PM · Permalink · Report

    E. V. O.: Search for Eden perhaps. Not sure if the method (magical?) would fit the definition.

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    Pseudo_Intellectual (66274) on 1/27/2013 9:47 PM · Permalink · Report

    vs. something like Neuromancer, where you can /downgrade/ your anatomy for cheap bionic parts if you need cash?

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    Cavalary (11445) on 1/27/2013 10:29 PM · Permalink · Report

    Modifiable anatomy?

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    Rola (8485) on 2/3/2013 10:23 PM · Permalink · Report

    Was this proposed before?

    Games featuring a journal, which is automatically updated with plot advances. Useful to recall your adventures when you get back to old savegames.

    Limitations:

    • A mere quest list/tracker doesn't qualify, a journal should be more verbose and chronological by default.

    Examples: Planescape Torment, Anvil of Dawn, Morrowind, many more

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    Indra was here (20756) on 2/5/2013 2:30 PM · Permalink · Report

    Judging from the current response from the bestiary thread, this might likely be merged into the encyclopedia group also. :p

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    Cavalary (11445) on 2/5/2013 9:59 PM · Permalink · Report

    Wouldn't be surprised.

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    lilalurl (733) on 2/5/2013 9:17 PM · Permalink · Report

    Radiant Historia might fit.

    As the game deals with time travel, it feature a timed list of nodes (sort of key events), with some accompanying text).

    The list is like this (although horizontal): http://radianthistoria.wikia.com/wiki/Node

    and here is an example of accompanying text: http://radianthistoria.wikia.com/wiki/Specint_Assignment

    Not a full journal, but far from a simple quest list/tracker.

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    Arjon van Dam (1247) on 2/10/2013 11:16 AM · edited · Permalink · Report

    I would like to propose a new Game Series Group called "Triple Action Series"

    These two (in the Mobygames database existing) compilations are candidates to get included in this Series:

    • Triple Action Volume 4
    • Triple Action Volume 5
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    Terok Nor (41846) on 2/10/2013 12:04 PM · Permalink · Report

    Group is pending.

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    Arjon van Dam (1247) on 2/10/2013 12:22 PM · Permalink · Report

    [Q --start Terok Nor wrote--]Group is pending. [/Q --end Terok Nor wrote--]

    If this applies to my post: thanx.

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    leilei (343) on 2/10/2013 5:37 PM · Permalink · Report

    A series group, Desktop Toys, which all use the same framework and developer.

    • Desktop Toys Volume 1 (1995, not on MobyGames yet)
    • Desktop Toys Volume 2: Revenge of the Toys (1996)
    • Dilbert's Desktop Games (1997)
    • Beavis & Butthead Screen Wreckers (1997)
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    CrankyStorming (2927) on 2/17/2013 10:46 AM · Permalink · Report

    Tentative name: PlayStation Essentials Range
    Description: Games available for PlayStation hardware which have been re-released with the 'Essentials' label (Is this just PAL regions or is it in every region?)
    Limitations: Unknown.
    Examples: Any game on Sony's website (specifically this list for PS3 and this list for PSP) which appears in the 'Other features: Essentials' criteria, though those lists appear to be incomplete. Also known: Heavy Rain: Move Edition, Monster Hunter Freedom Unite, Sonic's Ultimate Genesis Collection.

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    Rola (8485) on 3/2/2013 10:11 AM · edited · Permalink · Report

    For all those global strategy DEFCON games, but I'd also allow ones where nuclear attack is an option (Shadow President).

    If somehow this ambiguous-yet-restrictive "World War III" group got approved...

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    Indra was here (20756) on 3/2/2013 10:41 AM · Permalink · Report

    I keep telling you it's called Theatre of War. :p

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    Rola (8485) on 3/2/2013 10:52 AM · Permalink · Report

    Yes, you keep to misinterpret the term...

    Whatever will be the group's name (I'm not saying "nuclear exchange" is the best choice), do you agree it's useful? I'd say it's a distinct and recurring theme.

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    Indra was here (20756) on 3/2/2013 10:55 AM · edited · Permalink · Report

    [Q --start Rola wrote--]Whatever will be the group's name (I'm not saying "nuclear exchange" is the best choice), do you agree it's useful? I'd say it's a distinct and recurring theme. [/Q --end Rola wrote--] I'd go for Gameplay Feature: Nuclear Option. It's more of a game feature than a theme, me thinks. Nuclear option also has a nice sounding ring to it. Though I guess the Yankees would prefer to use the term 'WMD', since they're so good at finding them. :p

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    Rola (8485) on 3/4/2013 6:32 AM · edited · Permalink · Report

    http://mobygroups.wikia.com/wiki/Gameplay_Feature:_Minigames

    Games featuring games within themselves. Usually these are played by the protagonist (not the player) and available as (hidden) collectibles/unlockables.

    Limitations

    • Some games are a collection of minigames themselves, sometimes called stages (e.g. various olympics games), these don't qualify here.
    • Some games launch a minigame (i.e. distinctively different from standard gameplay) for special activities, such as picking an electronic lock, these don't qualify here.
    • Special levels (e.g. beer collecting in Tyrian) don't count here.
    • For games that let your protagonist to gamble within the game universe, see Gameplay Feature: Gambling or more specific Gameplay Feature: Poker.
    • There is a separate group for games which include previously released full games (hidden/unlockable): Games with hidden / unlockable full games

    Examples

    System Shock 1 & 2 has games that can be collected in cyberspace and later played. I vaguely recall some jRPG which had whole mini-RPG inside. Anachronox.

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    vedder (70685) on 3/4/2013 8:00 AM · Permalink · Report

    I'd use a different name for the group. As it stands it would cause to much confusion as the most common use of the term minigame is for point 2 of your limitations.

    Not sure what best describes it. Something like "Game within a game" or something.

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    Cavalary (11445) on 3/4/2013 11:39 AM · Permalink · Report

    Yeah, when I see that name I'm thinking of stuff like lockpicking minigames and such.

    Anachronox has some games you can grab for the console in your office, on top of the ones you can play elsewhere. And I'm sure I heard of some that have Zork included... Do those count?

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    Indra was here (20756) on 3/4/2013 11:21 AM · Permalink · Report

    As in Maniac Mansion is playable in Day of the Tentacle or is this something else entirely?

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    vedder (70685) on 3/4/2013 11:56 AM · Permalink · Report

    I assume it counts as well.

    As do the casino games in Leisure Suit Larry and Fallout New Vegas.

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    chirinea (47504) on 3/4/2013 12:14 PM · edited · Permalink · Report

    Edit: ALAKA clarified it.

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    Alaka (105836) on 3/4/2013 12:08 PM · Permalink · Report

    [Q --start Indra was here wrote--]As in Maniac Mansion is playable in Day of the Tentacle or is this something else entirely? [/Q --end Indra was here wrote--]

    This

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    Indra was here (20756) on 3/4/2013 12:53 PM · Permalink · Report

    Added to wiki under Uncategorized groups.

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    Rola (8485) on 3/5/2013 8:40 AM · edited · Permalink · Report

    Thanks. I've updated the description according to your suggestions.

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    j.raido 【雷堂嬢太朗】 (93195) on 3/6/2013 7:13 PM · Permalink · Report

    Theme: Mail Delivery

    Description: Games where the delivery of mail or packages is a central part of the gameplay.

    Examples: Postman Pat, Postman Pot, Honō no Takuhaibin

    Indra, want to work your magic on this one?

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    lilalurl (733) on 3/6/2013 7:31 PM · edited · Permalink · Report

    Paperboy (and sequels I guess, although never played those)

    Edit: Well, now that I think of it, I guess it will depend on the detailed description and if it is exclusively mail or packages (excluding newspapers/magazine packages)

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    j.raido 【雷堂嬢太朗】 (93195) on 3/6/2013 7:40 PM · Permalink · Report

    I'd say Paperboy fits with the spirit of what I'm suggesting. Thus why I've put the suggestion forward for peer revision. :)

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    Indra was here (20756) on 3/6/2013 9:00 PM · edited · Permalink · Report

    Sorry. I'm currently sulking on game groups. But I'll help a bit:

    Games where the delivery of mail or packages is an integral part of the gameplay, either in its entirely or in a noticeable proportion of the game. Its variation may include a child's paper route from a summer dream to the more official manic depressive postal driver chasing a chihuahua through the neighbood whilst knocking grandmothers over like bowling pins. Mail delivery is not for the faint of heart.

    Limitations
    This is not a postal themed game group. The delivery of mail, packages, or equivalent objects must be explicitly expressed in gameplay. So games where the player dresses up as a UPS delivery man beating up a FedEx delivery man on top of a high speed mail delivery van whilst juggling chihuahuas and grandmothers, despite being a somewhat remarkable feat should still regrettably be excluded from this game group, if no actual mail delivery gameplay is expressed.

    No chihuahuas were injured during the course of this description. Grandmothers however...

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    j.raido 【雷堂嬢太朗】 (93195) on 3/6/2013 7:46 PM · Permalink · Report

    Also, not entirely sure how to represent this one, but I've come across a few games (namely Kishi Densetsu and Advanced Daisenryaku) where the player controls the German Nazi army during WWII. I'm not a wargamer, so I don't know if there are many (any?) other games like this, but seems worthy of a group to me. "Protagonist: German Nazi" seems a little tacky, though... Thoughts?

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    lilalurl (733) on 3/6/2013 8:05 PM · Permalink · Report

    The Panzer General series, the Panzer Elite series, the Panzer Corps series for instance.

    The entry for Panzer General uses the word Nazis: http://www.mobygames.com/game/panzer-general so why not continue with the trend.

    You can use 3rd Reich if you prefer but I don't really see why it would be an issue (I guess us Europeans are less bothered by the word).

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    Rwolf (22739) on 3/6/2013 8:31 PM · edited · Permalink · Report

    I know some games are letting you play any side in various historical conflicts, 'Hearts of Iron' series etc. though maybe not so many focusing on only playing the (historically) losing side.

    I can think of e.g. 'Luftwaffe Commander', 'Silent Hunter 3' (and 5) being a few of those where you only can play on the Nazi side. Not that there is any revisionism possible in those, you still lose in the end ;-)

    But why make a group of such few?

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    j.raido 【雷堂嬢太朗】 (93195) on 3/6/2013 9:29 PM · Permalink · Report

    [Q --start Rwolf wrote--]But why make a group of such few? [/Q --end Rwolf wrote--] A half-dozen disparate games connected by a shared theme seems like perfect group material to me. Besides, I think it's rather fascinating to see how different cultures' impressions of history is reflected in what they create.

    Advanced Daisenryaku for example actually lets you win WW2 as the Nazis. It's just really, really, REALLY hard to do.

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    Indra was here (20756) on 3/6/2013 9:22 PM · edited · Permalink · Report

    Just for the sake of experimentation:

    Playable Faction: Nazi Germany / Third Reich

    To give an idea of the category being used here. Not necessarily under the protagonist category since you used the term player controls the German Nazi army compared to player controls an SS officer with an impeccable fashion sense.

    Some might view this problematic, category-wise, but to be informed of playable factions (optional or otherwise) is a nice-to-know feature for strategy gamers like myself, as not all strategy games mention this explicitly. How many games that allow you to play the 'bad guy' i.e. the Nazi's for example is an additional curious trivia that should be worth noting.

    Example games I'm aware of: Hearts of Iron series: play any country in the world during WWII.

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    Kabushi (260849) on 3/6/2013 10:03 PM · Permalink · Report

    Doesn't most wargames allow you to play both sides?

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    Indra was here (20756) on 3/7/2013 12:28 AM · Permalink · Report

    [Q --start Kabushi wrote--]Doesn't most wargames allow you to play both sides? [/Q --end Kabushi wrote--]Not really. The usual scenario is: you play good guy and defeat bad guy or whichever predetermined opponent. That's about it. Unless it's for multi-player purposes. Options where you can actually play any faction (presented) in the game is pretty rare to my recollection.

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    Rola (8485) on 3/6/2013 10:35 PM · Permalink · Report

    While for some people playing for the III Reich sounds new (and I have yet to see FPS with German side, that is, campaign/storyline, not just multiplayer shootfest), it's actually quite common for strategy/wargame and combat simulator (flight, submarine, tank too) genres.

    I don't see a need for such group. Unless we start adding all playable factions. If you want a rare one, then to quote GWB "you forgot Poland" ;]

    Oh, and before someone starts imagining things: last year I was conquering America in Panzer General. My first sub sim was Wolfpack.

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    j.raido 【雷堂嬢太朗】 (93195) on 3/6/2013 11:43 PM · Permalink · Report

    I guess that goes to show how big the gaps are in my experience when I've only focused on console games. I had no idea this was so common!

    That said, my original intent was more toward games where the scenario specifically casts the player as Axis, not that it's simply one option among many. Of course, I also forgot that a lot of these wargames don't really focus on a single continuous scenario!

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    Indra was here (20756) on 3/7/2013 12:36 AM · edited · Permalink · Report

    [Q --start Rola wrote--]I don't see a need for such group. Unless we start adding all playable factions. If you want a rare one, then to quote GWB "you forgot Poland" ;] [/Q --end Rola wrote--]Not really. I suspect the Third Reich is interesting enough to warrant attention. Don't have to necessarily mean you have to add them all, it would depend on user interest on any particular faction. Though I'd find Playable Faction - United States to lacking in interest. It would be neat to include them all one day, but only if there were an hierarchy of importance e.g. Genres - Heading 1; Game Groups - Heading 2; other tags - Heading 3,4,5, etc.

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    Rola (8485) on 3/7/2013 1:47 AM · Permalink · Report

    I'm all for such hierarchy. Even today some entries have multiple groups and important ones need highlighting.

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    leilei (343) on 3/27/2013 5:50 PM · edited · Permalink · Report

    I'm surprised we do not have a "Create-a-fighter" group yet, for features in certain fighting (and most wrestling) games, and it often goes beyond cosmetics.

    It'd have to exclude those fighters that only do cosmetics (like 'original character' in some CAPCOM releases, which only allows color changes)

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    vedder (70685) on 3/27/2013 6:56 PM · Permalink · Report

    [Q --start Indra was here wrote--]Gah, lost whatever description I wrote here.

    Tentative Name: 1st Person games in which you can see your feet

    Description:
    Games using a first person perspective where it's possible to see your feet by looking down.

    Limitations

    • You have to be able to see them while looking down. Looking in a mirror doesn't count.
    • You have to be able to see them at pretty much any time. Duke Nukem 3D's Mighty Foot doesn't count, cause it's only there when you attack. Nor does it count when you only see them when you hop over an obstacle
    • You have to be able to see them while remaining in 1st person (i.e. Not by going into 3rd Person camera mode as in Jedi Knight or Deus Ex: Human Revolution).

    Examples

    • Mirror's Edge
    • Montezuma's Return

    [/Q --end Indra was here wrote--]

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    Rwolf (22739) on 4/29/2013 8:53 PM · Permalink · Report

    Hmm...the 'seeing your feet' thing - sometimes it's dependent on the vehicles used.

    When I took screenshots in Ship Simulator, I noticed that in most ships you hover as a ghost wherever you are, even in 3rd person view, without a body, but the Jetski had a driver whose feet were visible in 1st person view. I guess the Jetski would look silly driving around on its own.

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    Rola (8485) on 4/29/2013 6:19 PM · Permalink · Report

    Games featuring Bob Morane, a fictional character who first appeared in adventure novels (1953) and later also in comics, TV series and animation.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Morane

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    Pseudo_Intellectual (66274) on 4/29/2013 8:55 PM · Permalink · Report

    I'm on it. Very cut and dried.

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    Pseudo_Intellectual (66274) on 4/29/2013 9:05 PM · Permalink · Report

    There you go, pending approval. There's my approverly good deed for the year.

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    Pseudo_Intellectual (66274) on 4/30/2013 4:05 AM · Permalink · Report

    Here you go. And thanks to Oleg for approving the group submission.

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    lilalurl (733) on 4/30/2013 4:33 AM · edited · Permalink · Report

    Not sure if it is worth to add to the group description, but Bob Morane was also adapted in a musical way. There is a very famous 80's French song, called l'Aventurier, by the band Indochine, which lyrics revolve around Bob Morane: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Il1S4WP6DlY

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    Pedro Ferreira (2561) on 4/30/2013 6:17 PM · Permalink · Report

    REQUEST: Hi, just finished one of the Mysterious City games and noticed there's no specific group for the series. It should be:

    The Mysterious City: Cairo

    The Mysterious City: Golden Prague

    The Mysterious City: Vegas

    Not sure if this is the right thread to post this but if it could be added that would be most helpful.

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    Pedro Ferreira (2561) on 5/2/2013 8:30 PM · Permalink · Report

    Just wanted to ask is this okay for approval?

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    vileyn0id_8088 (21040) on 4/30/2013 9:53 PM · Permalink · Report

    [Q --start lilalurl wrote--]Not sure if it is worth to add to the group description, but Bob Morane was also adapted in a musical way. There is a very famous 80's French song, called l'Aventurier, by the band Indochine, which lyrics revolve around Bob Morane: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Il1S4WP6DlY[/Q --end lilalurl wrote--] That's a much better tribute than any of those games (there's another one from me pending approval, btw) - they're all rather horrible knockoffs of other titles. :)

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    Rola (8485) on 5/27/2013 1:30 AM · edited · Permalink · Report

    Visual technique / style: Cinematics using documentary footage

    My old request. Found at least half a dozen games with WW2 newsreels, I'm a history buff after all. I guess modern documentaries (like Castles 2 CD) should count too?

    Games reusing documentary film footage in their cutscenes or bonus video material.

    Limitations:
    * making-of videos about a given game don't count here
    * clips of sport matches in sport games should be excluded

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    Stefan Lindberg (19) on 7/16/2013 1:46 PM · Permalink · Report

    How about a group for all those "new" game releases by GOG... like a "emulated game group"? Where nothing is changed in the game... it just comes with a configed dosbox.

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    Pseudo_Intellectual (66274) on 7/16/2013 3:30 PM · Permalink · Report

    We do have an "emulator" tech spec.

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    Stefan Lindberg (19) on 7/16/2013 3:45 PM · Permalink · Report

    I can't find "emulator"? I click "contribute" and then i choose "tech-info" but there is no emualtor choice there? I tried for Dragonsphere (windows) entry.

    Also should Dragonsphere really be listed as "public domain"? AFAIK so is it exclusivly distributed on GOG only.

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    chirinea (47504) on 7/16/2013 3:54 PM · Permalink · Report

    Maybe the emulator tech spec isn't available for the selected platform. But we have an "emulator" genre also (though it can't be always used, as genre's are aplyed to all games on the same rap sheet).

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    Pseudo_Intellectual (66274) on 7/16/2013 5:52 PM · Permalink · Report

    Sorry, my mistake -- it is bizarrely a genre, not a tech spec.

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    Indra was here (20756) on 7/16/2013 11:04 PM · edited · Permalink · Report

    MobyGames. We're even the most veteran of us, still can't find our way around here. :p Hurray for user friendly interface!

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    chirinea (47504) on 7/17/2013 4:23 AM · Permalink · Report

    Couldn't an admin create the tech spec then move everything from the genre to the tech spec? Maybe the moving process would be troublesome, so we could save that list and add those manually (yay, points!).

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    Rola (8485) on 7/17/2013 4:39 AM · Permalink · Report

    I've proposed this to our staff over a year ago.

    [q6] Some time ago we've discussed that many Windows re-releases of old titles (eg. through GOG) are unchanged DOS versions simply packed together with DOSbox, and it makes a mess in MobyGames database:

    http://www.mobygames.com/forums/dga,2/dgb,8/dgm,163414/

    Since we already have "has Windows launcher" option for DOS platform, why not adding "required to run in DOSBox (included with game)", "required to run in ScummVM (included with game)" (or similar wording) in tech-specs for Windows platform (to use with these re-releases). This could clear up the matter at least a bit.

    Because if you add "emulator" (genre), it applies to all platforms for a given game title. [/q6]

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    Patrick Bregger (298879) on 7/16/2013 3:50 PM · Permalink · Report

    Unfortunately it is a genre, for whatever reason.

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    anna zhang on 7/17/2013 6:14 AM · edited · Permalink · Report

    spam

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    Fred VT (25953) on 7/20/2013 7:04 PM · Permalink · Report

    Now I have no idea how this should be called. It would be a gamegroup to gather all the itterations (ports ands remakes) and DLCs of a single game.

    Example: Tentative Name: LEGO The Lord of the Rings (Super Game) --(or whatever fits better than "super game"

    Description: List of all the versions of LEGO The Lord of the Rings and its DLCs

    Limitations Games based on J.R.R. Tolkien's The Lord of the Rings that are not a port or remake of LEGO The Lord of the Rings or one of its add-ons are to be excluded from this group.

    Examples

    • LEGO The Lord of the Rings
    • LEGO The Lord of the Rings: Middle-earth Character Pack 1
    • LEGO The Lord of the Rings: Middle-earth Character Pack 2
    • LEGO The Lord of the Rings: Weapons and Magical Items Pack

    This game group would also contain the handheld version of the game (if it were in the database)

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    Rola (8485) on 7/20/2013 9:13 PM · Permalink · Report

    No.

    While I admit it makes sense to link all add-ons etc. to the primary game, groups are not the way to do it.

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    Patrick Bregger (298879) on 7/20/2013 9:28 PM · Permalink · Report

    Well, we already have a few similar groups, even though I can't recall any right now. Of course this only makes sense if the main series group is confusing (see sub-groups for Final Fantasy and Ultima). However, those are exceptions. Normally it is easy enough to visually group DLCs etc. in the regular series group or make a small write-up in the game group description.

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    vedder (70685) on 7/20/2013 11:00 PM · Permalink · Report

    I remember seeing some as well, I think they were usually just called "series", even if it was just one core game with many DLC.

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    Fred VT (25953) on 7/21/2013 2:13 AM · edited · Permalink · Report

    Yeah, I admit that when you sort the games in a group by alphabetical order, it's quite easy to see them... Except there are a few misplaced games; I tried with the Final Fantasy Games group, and Final Fantasy XII, XIII and XIII-2 are a bit mixed-up because of the ":"...

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    Indra was here (20756) on 7/21/2013 2:13 AM · Permalink · Report

    I'd just put it on the game description for DLCs, so it's easily viewable for users. You know, like 99% of other game sites already do without the hassle of forcing the user to divert to another page, as if we have a fetish for multiple pages.

    Actually have a revision somewhere to experiment on that, which is being indefinitely ignored. And I'm the conservative one around here. :p

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    Rola (8485) on 7/21/2013 3:28 PM · edited · Permalink · Report

    The "new page rule" is the result of the "DLCs are like add-ons of yesteryear" thinking. However add-ons were usually sold boxed in retail...

    I'm all for increasing visibility for add-ons/DLCs on the main game entry. But how to do it using current website layout? (I don't expect website update unless MobyGames changes hands again)

    Even the "series" group we use now often gets drowned between other not-so-important-groups ("protagonists with mullets").

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    Fred VT (25953) on 7/21/2013 4:10 PM · Permalink · Report

    Surely we should be able to find a solution if we all give our input?

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    Indra was here (20756) on 7/21/2013 5:21 PM · Permalink · Report

    Well, the nice thing about game group descriptions is that it's easily modified, hence we should be able to experiment, see how it looks like, get a public vote, and move on.

    Personally, I'm against any layout that's more than one-click away. That just means one is not being efficient enough. But what do I know, Endonesians aren't known for their efficiency ideas.

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    Fred VT (25953) on 7/21/2013 5:37 PM · Permalink · Report

    It seems that using game groups for that purpose is not the best liked idea though.

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    Rola (8485) on 7/21/2013 11:51 PM · edited · Permalink · Report

    How about adding a list (links) of addons/DLCs on the bottom of main game description? But that's poor choice for games that still are getting new DLCs...

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    Indra was here (20756) on 7/22/2013 1:34 AM · Permalink · Report

    [Q --start Rola wrote--]But that's poor choice for games that still are getting new DLCs... [/Q --end Rola wrote--]Well, it's faster than waiting for the DLC to get approved.

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    Indra was here (20756) on 7/22/2013 1:18 AM · Permalink · Report

    [Q --start Fred VT wrote--]It seems that using game groups for that purpose is not the best liked idea though. [/Q --end Fred VT wrote--]I was referring to the game description, not game group description.

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    Fred VT (25953) on 7/22/2013 1:31 AM · Permalink · Report

    Then it does makes sense.

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    Fred VT (25953) on 7/27/2013 10:13 PM · edited · Permalink · Report

    Are there groups for monster-hunter-like games? ie: Gathering materials to craft equipment, breaking monster parts.

    edit: Found the Gameplay feature: Trophies gathering. Anything else?

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    Indra was here (20756) on 7/27/2013 10:51 PM · edited · Permalink · Report

    Gameplay feature: Monster capture / training.

    However, certain approvers don't see the need for it to be separated as my original proposition. Hard to help hardcore users find what they're looking for when people who have little interest or just a general idea of a specified genre make the calls.

    Yeah, no monster breeding game group either.

    Then there's the survival genre accessory game groups which are partially related. Won't be adding new groups to complete that set any time soon. For obvious reasons.

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    Fred VT (25953) on 7/27/2013 11:32 PM · Permalink · Report

    Is there any actual monster capturing / training in Monster Hunter??

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    Indra was here (20756) on 7/28/2013 1:29 AM · Permalink · Report

    Not to my knowledge. I just needed a reason to rant. :p

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    Fred VT (25953) on 7/28/2013 2:16 AM · Permalink · Report

    Because it actually is in that group................................................................................

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    Indra was here (20756) on 7/28/2013 8:15 AM · Permalink · Report

    I still have no idea why approvers don't have a 'remove game from group' function.

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    Donatello (466) on 8/9/2013 1:28 AM · Permalink · Report

    Do we have a group for games that feature deteriorating weapons (ie weapons break/worsen after continued use)?

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    Indra was here (20756) on 8/9/2013 6:04 AM · Permalink · Report

    Proposed and ignored.

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    Donatello (466) on 8/9/2013 6:08 AM · Permalink · Report

    [Q --start Indra was here wrote--]Proposed and ignored. [/Q --end Indra was here wrote--]

    Is there only one person who is capable of adding game groups? Game groups are probably the most interesting thing we can actually do with our database at this point of time, so I don't really understand the inertia on behalf of the people who have the means to add these.

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    Fred VT (25953) on 8/9/2013 12:05 PM · Permalink · Report

    I think this one is legitimate. There are many games in which this gameplay feature has an importance (Chocobo's Dungeon, Diablo, SaGa Frontier 2, just to name a few).

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    Pseudo_Intellectual (66274) on 8/9/2013 5:51 PM · Permalink · Report

    All right, let's get the description up here with a list of games belonging and I can submit it.

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    Donatello (466) on 8/14/2013 12:49 AM · Permalink · Report

    I can probably do it.

    I think having two distinct groups, one for weapons and other for armor (anything wearable), would be preferrable, right?

    :)

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    Fred VT (25953) on 8/14/2013 1:21 AM · Permalink · Report

    Are there any instances where weapons are breakable, but not the armor or vice-versa?

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    Pseudo_Intellectual (66274) on 8/14/2013 2:58 AM · Permalink · Report

    I imagine there are even games where non-weapon non-armour objects also deteriorate through use.

    I would however probably just lump it all in a group named "Group feature: item quality deterioration".

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    Donatello (466) on 8/14/2013 3:41 AM · Permalink · Report

    [Q --start Fred VT wrote--]Are there any instances where weapons are breakable, but not the armor or vice-versa? [/Q --end Fred VT wrote--]

    Monster Hunter. The weapon's sharpness deteriorates as you use it, but the armor doesn't.

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    Indra was here (20756) on 8/14/2013 3:29 AM · Permalink · Report

    Need help? I do this kinda stuff for a living.

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    Donatello (466) on 8/14/2013 3:40 AM · Permalink · Report

    Yeah, I wouldn't mind if you drafted a description for it, since most of your other ones are really good.

    Should item degradation be the best solution, then? Because if there are games where non-combat items also deteriorate, we would either have to make a group for all three individually or lump them together.

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    Indra was here (20756) on 8/14/2013 4:37 AM · edited · Permalink · Report

    Tentative Title: Armor / Weapon Degradation

    Reasoning for title, to include armor and weapons, as it's what gamers would be more inclined to search for, rather than items, which is too general. Item included for a sense of completion.

    Tentative Description:

    Games which feature item degradation or deterioration, mainly focused on armor and/or weapons, as well as any other item after constant or continuous use, to the point where the item in question may become broken, unusable, or is destroyed.

    In first-person shooter (FPS) games or games that feature firearms, this may also result in a weapon jam.

    These items are marked with a quality indicator to signify how good or bad the quality of the item is, ranging from percentage indicators (e.g. Wooden Sword 53%) or a basic description (e.g. Wooden Sword - Average Quality), which will gradually change to lower quality after constant use.

    Some games offer counter-measures to slow down the process or even prevent this feature, which may include reparation, maintenance, and in some cases may even allow a complete restoration of a broken, unusable, or destroyed item.

    Limitations

    • Single use items and items subject to consumption (e.g. food, drink, potions, charges, etc.) should be excluded from this game group.
    • Item degradation/deterioration applicable only to special items, quest items, or plot devices, should be excluded from this game group.
    • Items that may result in being broken, unusable, or destroyed, however does not provide a quality indicator, should be excluded from this game group.
    • Items that have a quality indicator, however does not signify quality degradation/deterioration after continued use of mentioned item should be excluded from this game group.
    • Items that may result in being broken, unusable, or destroyed during a certain segment of the game, however will automatically retain its quality after that segment ends, should be excluded from this game group (e.g. sword breaks during a battle, after the battle, the sword is automatically repaired). Note: This may exclude FPS games where items are automatically restored per new battle.

    Just a few on the top of my head.

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    Fred VT (25953) on 8/14/2013 12:07 PM · Permalink · Report

    Seems good to me. Other title suggestion: Equipment Deterioration.

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    Rola (8485) on 8/14/2013 3:11 PM · Permalink · Report

    Not sure about the quality indicator, but otherwise OK. I'd maybe add:

    • This group isn't about depleting magical charges, electric power or ammunition used by the item.

    Bring it on! I can think of a few titles...

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    Donatello (466) on 8/16/2013 10:00 PM · Permalink · Report

    Can we get this in?

    There's plenty of games, but first add Diablo and Monster Hunter series.

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    Indra was here (20756) on 8/16/2013 10:10 PM · Permalink · Report

    Updated the description and title.

    Eh? I didn't know Diablo had item deterioration?

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    Fred VT (25953) on 8/16/2013 10:45 PM · Permalink · Report

    Dragon's Crown and Chocobo's Dungeon 2 (not sure for the first one, but it is likely). Also add SaGa Frontier 2.

    Yeah, if memory serves, the Blacksmith can repair weapons and armors in Diablo.

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    Indra was here (20756) on 8/17/2013 12:27 AM · Permalink · Report

    [Q --start Fred VT wrote--]Yeah, if memory serves, the Blacksmith can repair weapons and armors in Diablo. [/Q --end Fred VT wrote--]But does it degrade from use? That part I can't really recall.

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    GTramp (81965) on 8/17/2013 12:59 AM · Permalink · Report

    In Diablo 1 weapons degrade from being used and should be repaired for cash at blacksmith or using a special warrior's skill. http://diablo.gamepedia.com/Warrior_%28Diablo_I%29#Repair_Skill

    That's probably also true for Diablo III, though I haven't played it.

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    Fred VT (25953) on 8/17/2013 2:19 AM · Permalink · Report

    They also degrade from use in Diablo 3

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    Indra was here (20756) on 8/17/2013 2:53 AM · Permalink · Report

    My memory must be really bad. Can't remember squat.

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    Yearman (29481) on 8/17/2013 7:47 AM · edited · Permalink · Report

    I'm not sure if the Diablo games would fit into this group. Armor and weapons have a durability counter but this doesn't affect other stats. Armor rating or weapon damage always stay the same.

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    Rola (8485) on 8/17/2013 9:28 AM · edited · Permalink · Report

    Isn't this group precisely about this: equipment's durability drops to zero -> item breaks?

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    Indra was here (20756) on 8/17/2013 9:38 AM · Permalink · Report

    Durability drops should be the primary concern, followed by a consequence of that durability (lower damage/armor, etc.). Breaking, being destroyed, etc., isn't mandatory I suppose.

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    Yearman (29481) on 8/17/2013 10:36 AM · Permalink · Report

    [Q --start Indra was here wrote--]followed by a consequence of that durability (lower damage/armor, etc.) [/Q --end Indra was here wrote--] This is the most important part.

    There is no item deterioration in Diablo II. Weapons have a certain amount of uses until they're depleted. Every hit with a sword does the same damage regardless of the sword's condition.

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    Rola (8485) on 8/17/2013 11:26 AM · Permalink · Report

    You're mistaking "performance decreasing with durability decay" with "item gets damaged with each use and may break if not repaired", the latter being the group's intention - at least that's how its description is written.

    http://diablo.wikia.com/wiki/Durability

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    Yearman (29481) on 8/17/2013 12:05 PM · Permalink · Report

    We might need two groups for this. One simple "item breaks if not repaired group" and another one which also includes performance decay.

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    Indra was here (20756) on 8/17/2013 5:43 PM · Permalink · Report

    Don't really see the need. From a game feature perspective, the only interesting feature is the ability for items to degrade. That the item has negative/positive consequences as a result of degradation or repairing, is optional.

    Will have to tweak the description it seems. My narration seems to be a bit off.

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    Rola (8485) on 8/18/2013 6:03 AM · Permalink · Report

    One group only.

    Also good luck finding those "degraded performance from decreased durability" games, as such stats/mechanics are not always presented to the player.

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    chirinea (47504) on 8/14/2013 3:50 PM · Permalink · Report

    So, I thought we had a "day/night cycles" game group. Don't we? It is too hard to nail a good description?

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    Fred VT (25953) on 8/16/2013 6:39 PM · Permalink · Report

    How big of a connection is necessary for a game to enter an "Inspiration" group?

    For instance, the game Parasite Eve is inspired by the novel, but doesn't feature much from the book except the villain (Eve) and the mitochondria plot. Would it fit in that group or not? If it does, do the sequels also fit in?

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    CalaisianMindthief (8172) on 8/16/2013 6:52 PM · Permalink · Report

    The real question is are there other games inspired by the novel outside of the Parasite Eve series. Otherwise, it's just a licensed title.

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    Fred VT (25953) on 8/16/2013 7:04 PM · Permalink · Report

    It's not licensed as a game version of the novel, but takes elements from it. Much like Dante's Inferno is based on The Divine Comedy, but is not a licensed product. Another example would be Devil May Cry, with the characters of Dante and Virgil, does it count as inspired by the Divine Comedy?

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    CalaisianMindthief (8172) on 8/16/2013 7:47 PM · Permalink · Report

    It's hard to believe that it's not a licensed title, after all they wear the same name. I know Japan is weird in places, but copyright and trademarks work there too. When talking about licensing it's the name that's important, not the story.

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    Fred VT (25953) on 8/16/2013 7:52 PM · Permalink · Report

    It seems that the first game is a sequel to the novel...

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    CalaisianMindthief (8172) on 8/16/2013 7:58 PM · Permalink · Report

    To fully clarify things, as I understand Inspiration: Book title groups on moby work in the following way: a developer read a book, liked it and decided to make a game inspired by it. The book is old, and the copyright has long since expired. The developer simply made the game and published it without further effort.

    As opposed to the whole deal of buying the right in order to do the same with a copyrighted title.

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    Fred VT (25953) on 8/16/2013 8:22 PM · Permalink · Report

    I see what you mean. However, the group doesn't seem limited to literature that doesn't have copyrights or licenses (Harry Potter / Game of Thrones).

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    Indra was here (20756) on 8/16/2013 9:22 PM · Permalink · Report

    To answer your question, as little as possible. Only requirement is that it is referring to a specified source (e.g. book), instead of a generalize theme (e.g. myth).

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    GTramp (81965) on 9/11/2013 5:24 AM · Permalink · Report

    Is there a group for games that offered real prizes? Like beat the game and send your results to the publishing company for a chance to get some prize or participate in sweepstakes?

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    chirinea (47504) on 9/11/2013 5:43 AM · Permalink · Report

    [Q --start GTramp wrote--]Is there a group for games that offered real prizes? Like beat the game and send your results to the publishing company for a chance to get some prize or participate in sweepstakes? [/Q --end GTramp wrote--]I don't know if there is one, but if we create one, would games which had some kind of contest qualify for it? I'm asking it because some Zeebo games had contests in which people would earn prizes for their scores.

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    GTramp (81965) on 9/11/2013 5:59 AM · Permalink · Report

    Why not. I'd propose a game group for games playing which could yield some real-world prizes. Just singleplayer, no cyber sports events or MMO's.

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    Indra was here (20756) on 9/11/2013 5:58 PM · Permalink · Report

    Closest thing I saw to a real prize was in Realms of Arkania: Star Trail:

    Page 8 - Diary Screenshot.

    ...I wonder if anyone will actually read the text I put into this screenshot. Does anyone ever read manuals anyway? Hmm.

    The first person to say in writing, "I saw this in the Star Trail manual", gets a free hint book.

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    Pseudo_Intellectual (66274) on 9/15/2013 12:40 AM · Permalink · Report

    Domark's first game, Eureka!, had a real cash prize.