Would this apply to the Survival Cooking group? (Aquaria)

vedder (70767) on 4/17/2013 2:52 PM · Permalink · Report

I think you are right. The group should be broadened. If the cooked meals are for survival the game will have the hunger/thirst game group in addition to this.

Indra was here (20756) on 4/17/2013 9:49 PM · edited · Permalink · Report

That's more or less the reason why I never touched this group.

Give me the word and I'll edit it to kingdom come.

chirinea (47496) on 4/17/2013 10:35 PM · Permalink · Report

So I'm contributing it. Maybe the word "survival" isn't bad, it only needs further specification in the description. Indra, see what you can come up with, please.

Indra was here (20756) on 4/17/2013 11:09 PM · edited · Permalink · Report

So a few clarifications so I get this right:

Mixing stuff up, specifically for the purposes of creating an edible item.
Edible item only applicable to player or player controlled NPCs. Not to be confused with Genre: Simulation - Cooking.
Survival cooking is (usually) a minor optional element.
Mixed items will result in what generally can be identified as food. Not to be confused with Gameplay feature: Alchemy.
Sources of raw material for cooking is irrelevant.
Methodology of cooking is irrelevant.
Cooking may require the use of specific recipes or random experimentation.
Cooking is not a bloody art form; it's just food, only hours away from becoming premeditated poo. Get over it already, you wankers!

Did I miss anything?

Fred VT (25953) on 4/17/2013 11:41 PM · Permalink · Report

Would Final Fantasy XI's food crafting fit in that category? It includes the use of various ingredients (onions, meat, etc.) and the result item is consumable to provide a "food effect".

chirinea (47496) on 4/17/2013 11:43 PM · Permalink · Report

I guess you didn't, seems OK to me.

vedder (70767) on 4/18/2013 6:52 AM · Permalink · Report

Does it have to be a combination of ingredients?

In Arx Fatalis and Minecraft you can turn raw meat into baked meat. Does that also count?

Indra was here (20756) on 4/18/2013 6:54 AM · Permalink · Report

Point taken. Additional ingredient requirement irrelevant.

Indra was here (20756) on 4/22/2013 7:58 AM · edited · Permalink · Report

Revision pending:

Games which features cooking raw or prepared ingredients using any method available (e.g. over an open flame or simply by combining two or more ingredients) for the purposes of creating item(s) which must be identified as a consumable food item. The food then may optionally be used by the player-controlled character or non-player characters (NPCs) for consumption/eating, usually to avoid a starvation feature or other similar features that may introduce a positive or negative effect when mentioned food is consumed (e.g. heal health).

Examples

Cooking raw meat over a recently constructed fireplace. Options to further manipulate the meat may include seasoning or similar activities.
Brewing a herbal drink or making soup with a cooking pot.
Combining a ham slice with two slices of bread to create a ham sandwich.

Note

Creatable drinks and beverages may also be identified as 'food'.
Survival cooking usually may be conducted anywhere during the game, with varying requirements depending on the food item being prepared. Some may require recipes, an open fire, or experimentation through the process of random combining ingredients.

Limitations

Not to be confused with Genre: Simulation - Cooking, where cooking is a major theme in the game, and usually the purposes of cooking is not to be consumed by the player controlled character. Hence, food items must be identified as a consumable object to be used primarily by the player-controlled character.
Not to be confused with Gameplay feature: Alchemy where items may not necessarily result in the creation of a consumable food item.

Related Game Groups

[edit] Strange how the html previewing works properly in the forums but not when contributing. annoyed

chirinea (47496) on 4/22/2013 12:54 PM · Permalink · Report

Seems good, but your addition of beverages made me wonder if some other games can be included, specially some adventure ones. For instance, in Monkey Island 2 you have to combine two different beverages to achieve a third one of a certain color in order to "thicken" your spit. Making drinks is not a feature in the game, but rather a way of solving a specific puzzle. Should we consider these cases eligible for this group? My opinion is "no", and so we should add it to the limitations, what do you guys think?

Indra was here (20756) on 4/22/2013 1:09 PM · edited · Permalink · Report

Nah. Would muddy the waters too much. Should be limited from quest or plot-related stuff. Keep the suggestions coming, it'll probably take quite a few revisions to make this airtight.

Pseudo_Intellectual (66360) on 4/22/2013 5:54 PM · Permalink · Report

That "muddy the waters" bit was a joke, right?

Indra was here (20756) on 4/23/2013 2:08 AM · Permalink · Report

???

Pseudo_Intellectual (66360) on 4/23/2013 3:53 AM · Permalink · Report

muddy waters / combine beverages?

Indra was here (20756) on 4/23/2013 4:00 AM · Permalink · Report

Oh, no. I don't drink that much in variety, so didn't know it was a name of a drink. No pun intended. Perhaps you'll be happy to know that my favorite whiskey is from your country, Yukon Jack.

Pseudo_Intellectual (66360) on 4/24/2013 5:39 AM · Permalink · Report

It's not the name of a drink (well, maybe it is), just thought that combining beverages and muddying waters are very similar phrases.

Game Guesser (28) on 4/23/2013 3:50 AM · Permalink · Report

Should Ultima VII and its famous ability to cook a loaf of bread (or perhaps Ultima IX and its notorious chance to poison same) perhaps be cited as an example that doesn't merit inclusion in the group, due to what a limited and narrow role it plays in the game?

Indra was here (20756) on 4/23/2013 4:03 AM · edited · Permalink · Report

Yes, I would believe so. I'll probably have to be more accurate in the examples section, with specified game examples that features this.

Will have to wait until an approver approves the revision before I can implement these suggestions.

[edit] While you're at it, if anyone find a screenshot deemed worthy of display, I'll include that too.

vedder (70767) on 4/23/2013 7:03 AM · Permalink · Report

Perhaps not the most clear, but here's someone baking a fish: http://www.mobygames.com/game/windows/arx-fatalis/screenshots/gameShotId,56052/

Indra was here (20756) on 4/23/2013 8:17 AM · edited · Permalink · Report

No worries, the game I'm playing right now features survival cooking with supporting text to explain the activity.

[edit] Oh, the screenshot is my character cooking human meat by the way. It doesn't get more survival cooking than that. Yum.

GTramp (81965) on 4/23/2013 10:43 AM · Permalink · Report

I'm surprised there are no screenshots of cooking meat from Gothic series. Those would suit well into what should be excluded.

Indra was here (20756) on 4/23/2013 1:30 PM · edited · Permalink · Report

[Q --start GTramp wrote--]I'm surprised there are no screenshots of cooking meat from Gothic series. Those would suit well into what should be excluded. [/Q --end GTramp wrote--] I believe you mean 'included'.

Users have this bad habit of focusing on scenery or plot-based screenshots. Shots regarding available game features tend have this tendency to be ignored. Platform-approach style screenshots (e.g. different level location and boss shots) do not work well in rpgs and strategy games.

Besides it's easier to contribute 20 shots of the same bloke doing the same thing, in just different areas.

chirinea (47496) on 4/23/2013 1:41 PM · Permalink · Report

[Q --start Indra was here wrote--]Users have this bad habit of focusing on scenery or plot-based screenshots. Shots regarding available game features tend have this tendency to be ignored. Platform-approach style screenshots (e.g. different level location and boss shots) do not work well in rpgs and strategy games.

Besides it's easier to contribute 20 shots of the same bloke doing the same thing, in just different areas. [/Q --end Indra was here wrote--]I usually takes lots of shots from in game menus, and usually I feel bad about submitting several of those.

Indra was here (20756) on 4/23/2013 1:46 PM · Permalink · Report

[Q --start chirinea wrote--]I usually takes lots of shots from in game menus, and usually I feel bad about submitting several of those. [/Q --end chirinea wrote--] As long as it's different enough and important enough for hardcore fans of the genre, personally I insist some of them to be included. Hell, I'm usually annoyed when many RPG games here don't offer screenshots on character creation and skills. I'm not a casual gamer, dammit!

chirinea (47496) on 4/23/2013 2:04 PM · Permalink · Report

Since I read your previous post I started checking some basic sidescrollers and it seems that people really don't care about documenting some in game menus which are an integral part of gameplay (like those pause menus where you can select a power up). Oh well, time to fire up those emulators and to start taking screenshots.

Indra was here (20756) on 4/23/2013 2:16 PM · Permalink · Report

Oh, still waiting for that game group revision approval by the way.

chirinea (47496) on 4/23/2013 4:47 PM · Permalink · Report

I've sent it back to you so you can fix whatever is missing.

Indra was here (20756) on 4/24/2013 2:00 AM · Permalink · Report

Games which features cooking raw or prepared ingredients using any method available (e.g. over an open flame or simply by combining two or more ingredients) for the purposes of creating item(s) which must be identified as a consumable food item. The food then may optionally be used by the player-controlled character or non-player characters (NPCs) for consumption/eating, usually to avoid a starvation feature or other similar features that may introduce a positive or negative effect when mentioned food is consumed (e.g. heal health).

Examples

Using raw meat and turning it into baked meat in Minecraft.
Cooking raw meat over an open flame in the Gothic series. Some games offer further manipulation which may include seasoning or similar activities.
Creating a loaf of bread from dough in the Ultima series.
Brewing a herbal drink or making soup with a cooking pot.

Survival cooking in the game Unreal World.

Note

Creatable drinks and beverages may also be identified as 'food'.
Survival cooking usually may be conducted anywhere during the game, with varying requirements depending on the food item being prepared. Some may require recipes, an open fire, or experimentation through the process of random combining ingredients.
To be clear the method of cooking and whether or cooking has additional requirements to create a food item is irrelevant, as long as the end result is a food item which may be consumed by the player-controlled character.

Limitations

Not to be confused with Genre: Simulation - Cooking, where cooking is a major theme in the game, and usually the purposes of cooking is not to be consumed by the player controlled character. Hence, food items must be identified as a consumable object to be used primarily by the player-controlled character.
Not to be confused with Gameplay feature: Alchemy where items may not necessarily result in the creation of a consumable food item.
Food items that only exist in its capacity as a part of a quest, plot/story, or puzzle, or any event where its presence is mandatory to further advance in the game, should be excluded from this game group, unless cooking such food items still remain an optional feature to the player.

Related Game Groups

Input from chirinea, veddar, und Dais has been implemented. Not really liking the screenshot result though.

GTramp (81965) on 4/24/2013 4:18 AM · edited · Permalink · Report

[Q --start Indra was here wrote--] I believe you mean 'included'. [/Q --end Indra was here wrote--] Yeah, I didn't read the whole description first. I thought two or more items should be combined, not just cooking a single slab of meat.