Forums > Game Forums > Metal Gear Solid > Zovni's (really old) review for this is great!
mobygamer (92) on 9/29/2010 9:33 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Simoneer wrote--]Who's with me?
Not that I agree with a single word he wrote in the Bad and Bottom Line section, but that is all a part of its charm. So wonderfully negative and judgemental. [/Q --end Simoneer wrote--]
hehe his review is quite funny it sounds like he is a sore nintendo fanboy disguised as a pc gamer, mad at sony for being "1st place" that generation.
Indra was here (20756) on 9/29/2010 10:02 PM · edited · Permalink · Report
Mentioning Lorenzo Lamas in a game review basically says it all. :p
Zovni (10504) on 9/29/2010 10:35 PM · Permalink · Report
Wow that was a trip down memory lane heh. I would add that it would be a particularly high-bugdget Lorenzo Lamas vehicle but I still think the comparison stands. I mean, I will never understand how is it that the original Resident Evil gets all the flak for its terrible dialogue and this here game simply got forgotten :S We have particularly selective memory as gamers it would seem.
I do think it was a bit harsh on retrospect heh. And yeah I was obviously sore that nintendo wasn't number 1 kid... rolleyes
mobygamer (92) on 9/30/2010 7:47 AM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Zovni wrote--] I do think it was a bit harsh on retrospect heh. And yeah I was obviously sore that nintendo wasn't number 1 kid... rolleyes [/Q --end Zovni wrote--]
lets see shall we you speak of console games being more dumbed down - PC gamer argument
Mario is example of how console games should be - PC gamer never ever say this... they are busy playing real platformers. Only nintendo fanboys say this and those pathetic "professional" reviewers, since its like the worst platformer ever and its one of the most shallow games, with the worst same story save peachy every time, worst characters, cakewalk etc mario is the clear example of a dumbed down game franchise to suit for the console market kids.
Anyway no need to be ashamed of the review, was a long time ago.
Simoneer (29) on 9/30/2010 7:58 AM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start I4C wrote--] [Q2 --start Zovni wrote--] I do think it was a bit harsh on retrospect heh. And yeah I was obviously sore that nintendo wasn't number 1 kid... rolleyes [/Q2 --end Zovni wrote--]
lets see shall we you speak of console games being more dumbed down - PC gamer argument
Mario is example of how console games should be - PC gamer never ever say this... they are busy playing real platformers. Only nintendo fanboys say this and those pathetic "professional" reviewers, since its like the worst platformer ever and its one of the most shallow games, with the worst same story save peachy every time, worst characters, cakewalk etc mario is the clear example of a dumbed down game franchise to suit for the console market kids.
Anyway no need to be ashamed of the review, was a long time ago. [/Q --end I4C wrote--]
I don't know... Super Mario Bros. 3 is pretty damn fun.
Unicorn Lynx (181780) on 9/30/2010 11:00 AM · edited · Permalink · Report
Well, I dunno about newer Marios, since I stopped playing them after Super Mario World, but up to that game, they were great. You don't play such games for story and characters, you play them for the gameplay, and the gameplay in early Marios delivered in spades.
This is coming from someone who definitely prefers "Prince of Persia style" platformers over console-style ones. By far. Still, Mario may not be the pinnacle of digital entertainment, but it was a great early achievement for the genre.
Slug Camargo (583) on 10/1/2010 10:06 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start I4C wrote--] [Q2 --start Simoneer wrote--]Agreed. [/Q2 --end Simoneer wrote--]
Indeed. [/Q --end I4C wrote--] Steed.
Simoneer (29) on 10/1/2010 10:15 PM · edited · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Dr. M. "Schadenfreude" Von Katze wrote--] [Q2 --start I4C wrote--] [Q3 --start Simoneer wrote--]Agreed. [/Q3 --end Simoneer wrote--] Indeed. [/Q2 --end I4C wrote--] Steed. [/Q --end Dr. M. "Schadenfreude" Von Katze wrote--] Peed.
mobygamer (92) on 10/2/2010 8:13 AM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Dr. M. "Schadenfreude" Von Katze wrote--] [Q2 --start I4C wrote--] [Q3 --start Simoneer wrote--]Agreed. [/Q3 --end Simoneer wrote--]
Indeed. [/Q2 --end I4C wrote--] Steed. [/Q --end Dr. M. "Schadenfreude" Von Katze wrote--]
What does Steed mean?
Slug Camargo (583) on 10/2/2010 5:37 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start I4C wrote--] [Q2 --start Dr. M. "Schadenfreude" Von Katze wrote--] [Q3 --start I4C wrote--] [Q4 --start Simoneer wrote--]Agreed. [/Q4 --end Simoneer wrote--]
Indeed. [/Q3 --end I4C wrote--] Steed. [/Q2 --end Dr. M. "Schadenfreude" Von Katze wrote--]
What does Steed mean? [/Q --end I4C wrote--]
mobygamer (92) on 10/2/2010 5:46 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Dr. M. "Schadenfreude" Von Katze wrote--] [Q2 --start I4C wrote--] [Q3 --start Dr. M. "Schadenfreude" Von Katze wrote--] [Q4 --start I4C wrote--] [Q5 --start Simoneer wrote--]Agreed. [/Q5 --end Simoneer wrote--]
Indeed. [/Q4 --end I4C wrote--] Steed. [/Q3 --end Dr. M. "Schadenfreude" Von Katze wrote--]
What does Steed mean? [/Q2 --end I4C wrote--] [/Q --end Dr. M. "Schadenfreude" Von Katze wrote--]
Steed can refer to lots of thing the asteroid belt, porn star etc I was asking, because i was curious to which one of them you were referring to.
Slug Camargo (583) on 10/2/2010 6:18 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start I4C wrote--] [Q2 --start Dr. M. "Schadenfreude" Von Katze wrote--] [Q3 --start I4C wrote--] [Q4 --start Dr. M. "Schadenfreude" Von Katze wrote--] [Q5 --start I4C wrote--] [Q6 --start Simoneer wrote--]Agreed. [/Q6 --end Simoneer wrote--]
Indeed. [/Q5 --end I4C wrote--] Steed. [/Q4 --end Dr. M. "Schadenfreude" Von Katze wrote--]
What does Steed mean? [/Q3 --end I4C wrote--] [/Q2 --end Dr. M. "Schadenfreude" Von Katze wrote--]
Steed can refer to lots of thing the asteroid belt, porn star etc I was asking, because i was curious to which one of them you were referring to. [/Q --end I4C wrote--] Um.... I was referring to the one that ends in "eed" I guess?
Also, way to ruin the game, we were having a lot of fun =(
Simoneer (29) on 9/30/2010 7:07 PM · edited · Permalink · Report
[Q --start I4C wrote--] Mario is example of how console games should be - PC gamer never ever say this... they are busy playing real platformers. Only nintendo fanboys say this and those pathetic "professional" reviewers, since its like the worst platformer ever and its one of the most shallow games, with the worst same story save peachy every time, worst characters, cakewalk etc mario is the clear example of a dumbed down game franchise to suit for the console market kids. [/Q --end I4C wrote--]
Sorry for quoting this yet again, I just now was able to understand exactly what you mean (you're good at spelling - just learn punctuation as well, which is just as necessary), and I'm therefore gonna comment on it. Well... what the hell, man? How is the Mario games not real platformers? They're like the very definition of the genre. In fact, with the first Super Mario, they did define it. The game is one of the most influential games of all time, spawning several clones and tons of games in the same style (there were platformers before Super Mario, but none as popular, and more importantly, non with as much platforming). It is to platformers what DOOM is to FPSs, or what In Flames are to melodic death metal. Worst platformer ever...? Undoubtly opinionated, but it did for a fact change much of the gaming industry. The Super Mario games are staples of the "one true gaming genre" (platforming is a thing completely exclusive to gaming - the same can't be said for role-playing or puzzling, solving mysteries or shooting people). Like it or not.
And actually, with Super Mario Bros. 3, the series became less shallow. There's actually quite a bit of depth in it, for what it is, and it is actually quite non-linear for a supposed "straight-forward" platformer. There's multiple ways of finishing the game. In fact, I don't think any two playthroughs I've done of it have been the same. Just to clarify a bit, if you're unfamiliar with it...
If you want to, you can play the first 6 stages of the first world and then use the flutes you have the CHOICE of picking up, to teleport to the last world. If you want to, you can play through the first three worlds, collecting three full rows of items and power ups, and then teleport to the very last world and use all these to quickly get through the world (by skipping levels, through flying through them, or whatever). If you want to, you can play through all of it. If you want to, you can play through half. You can choose to play through the game with minimum lives and no items if you wish. Or you max out both. There's also some non-linear levels with multiple paths. You can also choose to go look for hammers that will let you break blocks, leading to a ship that will take you to an island of bonus stages (though you control by yourself, no less)...You have plenty of choices to make in this game. Plenty. They may no affect the story, but they affect the overall design of the game. How it is played.
mobygamer (92) on 10/1/2010 5:16 PM · edited · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Zovni wrote--]Grammar could use some help also. I had no idea what he wrote, apparently he thinks I love Mario? The "rolleyes" was probably too subtle a hint methinks. [/Q --end Zovni wrote--]
I wrote that in Sanskrit, sorry. For me to understand rolleyes, i must be able to do it proficiently.
mobygamer (92) on 10/1/2010 5:08 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Simoneer wrote--]
Sorry for quoting this yet again, I just now was able to understand exactly what you mean (you're good at spelling - just learn punctuation as well, which is just as necessary), and I'm therefore gonna comment on it.
[/Q --end Simoneer wrote--]
Thank you and my sincere apologies for the punctuation, i was drunk at the time.
[Q --start Simoneer wrote--]
Well... what the hell, man? How is the Mario games not real platformers?
[/Q --end Simoneer wrote--]
I will answer that, in the end of this post. You will understand why, after you read this post in its entirety.
[Q --start Simoneer wrote--]
They're like the very definition of the genre. In fact, with the first Super Mario, they did define it. The game is one of the most influential games of all time, spawning several clones and tons of games in the same style (there were platformers before Super Mario, but none as popular, and more importantly, non with as much platforming). [/Q --end Simoneer wrote--]
I am aware that it was and still is influential, but the reason behind that is the amount of sales it generated. Not quality. Modern Warfare 2 will also influence other games for that same reason. Wether or not it "defined" the genre is subjective, some think Donkey Kong defined it, while others think Space Panic is the true title holder.
[Q --start Simoneer wrote--]
It is to platformers what DOOM is to FPSs, or what In Flames are to melodic death metal. Worst platformer ever...? Undoubtly opinionated, but it did for a fact change much of the gaming industry. The Super Mario games are staples of the "one true gaming genre" (platforming is a thing completely exclusive to gaming - the same can't be said for role-playing or puzzling, solving mysteries or shooting people). Like it or not.
[/Q --end Simoneer wrote--]
I beg to differ. In my opinion, Mario is to platformers what Halo or Modern Warfare 2 are to FPS, I think it is clear what i mean by this. "Platforming" is also available in our daily lives, be it in parkour, media, etc
[Q --start Simoneer wrote--]
And actually, with Super Mario Bros. 3, the series became less shallow. There's actually quite a bit of depth in it, for what it is, and it is actually quite non-linear for a supposed "straight-forward" platformer. There's multiple ways of finishing the game. In fact, I don't think any two playthroughs I've done of it have been the same. Just to clarify a bit, if you're unfamiliar with it...
If you want to, you can play the first 6 stages of the first world and then use the flutes you have the CHOICE of picking up, to teleport to the last world. If you want to, you can play through the first three worlds, collecting three full rows of items and power ups, and then teleport to the very last world and use all these to quickly get through the world (by skipping levels, through flying through them, or whatever). If you want to, you can play through all of it. If you want to, you can play through half. You can choose to play through the game with minimum lives and no items if you wish. Or you max out both. There's also some non-linear levels with multiple paths. You can also choose to go look for hammers that will let you break blocks, leading to a ship that will take you to an island of bonus stages (though you control by yourself, no less)...You have plenty of choices to make in this game. Plenty. They may no affect the story, but they affect the overall design of the game. How it is played. [/Q --end Simoneer wrote--]
I don't think skipping a level or 2 adds depth. When i was talking about depth, I was referring to the platforming itself. Since like you mentioned mario is about gameplay and it detracts so much from platforming by introducing meaningless elements like growing, throwing fireballs etc
Lets analyze how you platform in mario, shall we? You basically use the jump and the run buttons to achieve longer jumps, the hardest part of course is timing the jump. Now i will go back to your other question "What are real platformers?". Thankfully real platformers exist and thank god they do.
There are several...defrag, urban terror, warsow etc
Urban Terror's depth can be verified on this guide. http://www.www0.org/cgi-bin/urtj?html=urtjq3.html
the other 2 have more depth then Urban Terror, but Urban Terror is the best way to introduce yourself to true platformers.
Thank you for your time.
Lain Crowley (6629) on 10/1/2010 6:23 PM · Permalink · Report
Are you seriously comparing Mario, a game from the 80s, to a non-commercial mod from 2007? Even comparing that to Mario 64 from 1996 is ludicrous. Urban Chaos would not exist without Mario 64, or without games like Mario 64 that existed a decade before it.
mobygamer (92) on 10/1/2010 7:22 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Lain Crowley wrote--]Are you seriously comparing Mario, a game from the 80s, to a non-commercial mod from 2007? Even comparing that to Mario 64 from 1996 is ludicrous. Urban Chaos would not exist without Mario 64, or without games like Mario 64 that existed a decade before it. [/Q --end Lain Crowley wrote--]
I suppose you mean Urban Terror? Can you prove what you are saying about it not existing if mario 64 didn't happen? It is inspired on quake 3 and counter-strike, not mario...
Simoneer (29) on 10/1/2010 7:26 PM · edited · Permalink · Report
He's not saying it was directly influenced by Mario 64, but rather that that game changed the industry to some extent, in the long run. Like...
Urban Terror was inspired by Quake 3, Quake 3 was inspired by some game, some game was inspired by some game, and some game was inspired by Super Mario 64.
Lain Crowley (6629) on 10/1/2010 8:14 PM · edited · Permalink · Report
Nothing travels backwards in a straight line, but Mario 64 is the progenitor of almost all modern 3D controls. At the dawn of the medium there was Mario 64 and Tomb Raider (which took Prince of Persia's controls and added the ability to turn). Mario 64 won.
As for where those platforming controls came from, I've never seen Quake III doing this.
mobygamer (92) on 10/1/2010 8:25 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Lain Crowley wrote--]Nothing travels backwards in a straight line, but Mario 64 is the progenitor of almost all modern 3D controls. At the dawn of the medium there was Mario 64 and Tomb Raider (which took Prince of Persia's controls and added the ability to turn). Mario 64 won.
As for where those platforming controls came from, I've never seen Quake III doing this. [/Q --end Lain Crowley wrote--]
People can jump in real life and some can even wall-jump.
Mario didn't inspire every game that ever existed u know?
Lain Crowley (6629) on 10/1/2010 8:39 PM · edited · Permalink · Report
So your opinion is that Urban Terror was developed in a vacuum and the developers had never played any other game in their life, designing every facet of the game from their unique observation of the world?
Never mind that jumping kind of was pioneered by Mario. When was the last time you jumped? When have you ever jumped to cross an obstacle? Mario made jumping as important to movement as walking, and it's only recently with the ability to vault over objects that games are becoming more realistic with their movement controls.
mobygamer (92) on 10/2/2010 8:03 AM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Lain Crowley wrote--]So your opinion is that Urban Terror was developed in a vacuum and the developers had never played any other game in their life, designing every facet of the game from their unique observation of the world?
Never mind that jumping kind of was pioneered by Mario. When was the last time you jumped? When have you ever jumped to cross an obstacle? Mario made jumping as important to movement as walking, and it's only recently with the ability to vault over objects that games are becoming more realistic with their movement controls. [/Q --end Lain Crowley wrote--]
Jumping as an action is doable in real life. The concept of pressing a button to do a action was invented long before mario existed. Put the two together and you see what i mean.
Lets say a platformer(with jumping) existed before mario, but we don't know about it, that doesn't mean that mario was inspired by it, just due to its existence.
All i am saying is that it isn't necessarily true that mario influenced every game with the jumping button in them(or ability to jump), after all there had to be a first game to do it. If we were to say "if a game has element B that was first present in game A then it was inspired by game A", we would get ourselves into a contradiction since the game creators of game A couldn't inspire themselves in the end result of game A, before developing it.
What i suspect inspired the jump maps, i mentioned, is the ability to get better movement for normal maps, for example: capture the flag quicker etc.
Unicorn Lynx (181780) on 10/1/2010 6:24 PM · Permalink · Report
I beg to differ. In my opinion, Mario is to platformers what Halo or Modern Warfare 2 are to FPS, I think it is clear what i mean by this
It is clear, but it is wrong. Historically. Nothing to do with opinion. Mario was one of the first platformers ever. Probably the first that introduced stuff that was taken for granted later - smooth scrolling, power-ups, diverse levels, what not. Halo came out 9 years after the first FPSs paved the way. Not comparable in any way.
A much more exact comparison would be: Mario was to platformers what Wolf 3D was to FPSs.
Lain Crowley (6629) on 10/1/2010 6:35 PM · Permalink · Report
Actually there was a smooth scrolling platformer that came out maybe a year before Super Mario, but it was trash so everyong forgets it (i can't even remember the name of it. Starred a car that was continuously jumping, but you could control the height of the jump).
I'd say Mario was more like Doom, because both games got so much right the first time that other games kept getting wrong. For years after Mario platformers could not get the acceleration and momentum of their avatars just right, and as far as I can tell Mario's has never changed for the 2D games. The games also have a well implemented risk/reward system (break blocks and gain a hit point as Super Mario, but become a bigger target and lose the ability to fit into tight spaces).
Alaka (106069) on 10/1/2010 8:01 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Lain Crowley wrote--]Actually there was a smooth scrolling platformer that came out maybe a year before Super Mario, but it was trash so everyong forgets it (i can't even remember the name of it. Starred a car that was continuously jumping, but you could control the height of the jump). [/Q --end Lain Crowley wrote--]
Simoneer (29) on 10/1/2010 8:10 PM · edited · Permalink · Report
[Q --start ALAKA wrote--] [Q2 --start Lain Crowley wrote--]Actually there was a smooth scrolling platformer that came out maybe a year before Super Mario, but it was trash so everyong forgets it (i can't even remember the name of it. Starred a car that was continuously jumping, but you could control the height of the jump). [/Q2 --end Lain Crowley wrote--]
City Connection? [/Q --end ALAKA wrote--]
Haha, that's what I was thinking of, but you're not continuously jumping in it. Love that game, though. So simple but so much fun. Just like most platformers, actually. They really do not need "platforming depth".
Lain Crowley (6629) on 10/1/2010 8:11 PM · Permalink · Report
No, the player avatar was a red car, but it was continuously jumping. Also the background had a lot more black, and the colors were more garish.
Lain Crowley (6629) on 10/2/2010 1:10 AM · Permalink · Report
It was side scrolling.
Simoneer (29) on 10/1/2010 6:44 PM · edited · Permalink · Report
[Q --start I4C wrote--] I am aware that it was and still is influential, but the reason behind that is the amount of sales it generated. Not quality. Modern Warfare 2 will also influence other games for that same reason. Wether or not it "defined" the genre is subjective, some think Donkey Kong defined it, while others think Space Panic is the true title holder. [/Q --end I4C wrote--]
When did I say it had to do with quality, though? ;)
But indeed, it's rather subjective. Although I was trying to look at it from an objective viewpoint; how many games like Super Mario aren't there? If we look at the 8-bit and 16-bit era, there are countless of platformers in the same style. To me it's apparent that it did establish the genre.
Personally I wouldn't consider Space Panic a platformer because it lacks platforming. Duh.
[Q --start I4C wrote--] "Platforming" is also available in our daily lives, be it in parkour, media, etc [/Q --end I4C wrote--]
I've thought about that to be honest, and I disagree. Maybe Prince of Persia is something that borrows from reality (and if you play it to today it actually feels like a parkour game, at least to me), but I never even saw that as a platformer. More so an (sidescrolling) action-adventure. Platforming is in the true sense about jumping from platforms to platforms, more often than not floating ones, and more often than not you jump ridiculously high and long. I guess Prince of Persia does have that platform-to-platform jumping, but I feel it has less emphasis on it. It might just be done too realistically for me to feel it is the same, I guess.
Anyway, the closest thing to actual platforming I've seen in anything live-action is the elevator-to-elevator jumping in Minority Report.
Of course, platformers borrow the jumping and running from "our daily lives", but I don't think that quite counts... It's something that's given if you play as someone on two legs.
[Q --start I4C wrote--] I don't think skipping a level or 2 adds depth. When i was talking about depth, I was referring to the platforming itself. Since like you mentioned mario is about gameplay and it detracts so much from platforming by introducing meaningless elements like growing, throwing fireballs etc [/Q --end I4C wrote--]
In the sense I was thinking of, I don't see how it doesn't add depth. Doesn't depth, in gaming, boil down to how differently you can do things? And for that matter, these "meanignless elements like growing, throwing fireballs etc" adds to that kind of depth. :P
But okay, I see what you're saying now. But how much depth in platforming can you expect from games with lack of real physics? I guess that's an irrelevant question, though.
[Q --start I4C wrote--] Lets analyze how you platform in mario, shall we? You basically use the jump and the run buttons to achieve longer jumps, the hardest part of course is timing the jump. Now i will go back to your other question "What are real platformers?". Thankfully real platformers exist and thank god they do.
There are several...defrag, urban terror, warsow etc
Urban Terror's depth can be verified on this guide. http://www.www0.org/cgi-bin/urtj?html=urtjq3.html
the other 2 have more depth then Urban Terror, but Urban Terror is the best way to introduce yourself to true platformers.
Thank you for your time. [/Q --end I4C wrote--]
Okay. So Super Mario is not a true platformer, despite being almost completely about the genre defining platforming, because these supposed modern platformers you mentioned have more depth...? Depth might add fun to games but they don't define the genres. (No, I'm not contradicting myself. I never said the supposed depth of Super Mario Bros. 3 made it more of a platformer, just saying it wasn't "shallow" as a game.)
...Besides that, Urban Terror is a hybrid. How can you call it a "true platformer" when it's basically a first-person shooter with platforming? I guess you also consider Counter-Strike a true platformer, with the bunny-hop stages and all. I guess you could, if you want, view it as a platformer with meaningless features that detract from the platforming... How ironic. Warsow looks very interesting, but that is also primarily a first-person shooter, only with some importance on jumping. Pretty much a Quake clone. So Quake is also a true platformer while Super Mario is not, I take it? ...Hell, DeFRAG is a Quake 3 mod, isn't it? Wow.
It's funny that you mention only games that combines genres. I don't think you've got this down right. Thanks for elaborating, though. Now I know I shouldn't take your opinion into consideration. You could at least have mentioned something like Mirror's Edge, in which the shooting elements come second and not first.
NOTE: I'm not saying that any of those you mentioned aren't in any way platformers. Don't get me wrong here.
mobygamer (92) on 10/1/2010 8:21 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Simoneer wrote--]
...Besides that, Urban Terror is a hybrid. How can you call it a "true platformer" when it's basically a first-person shooter with platforming? I guess you also consider Counter-Strike a true platformer, with the bunny-hop stages and all. I guess you could, if you want, view it as a platformer with meaningless features that detract from the platforming... How ironic. Warsow looks very interesting, but that is also primarily a first-person shooter, only with some importance on jumping. Pretty much a Quake clone. So Quake is also a true platformer while Super Mario is not, I take it? ...Hell, DeFRAG is a Quake 3 mod, isn't it? Wow.
[/Q --end Simoneer wrote--]
Urban Terror,defrag and warsow have jump maps and "normal maps". In normal maps u play like a "normal" shooter and in jump maps you do what is necessary to get to the end of the map, there is no fragging in these maps, therefore there are no features detracting from the platforming. In some maps you have to work as a team(2 players) to "pass" the map, but those have even more depth.
Here are some videos demonstrating players playing on jump maps(watch till end plz, all of them are small):
Defrag: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-T6IAHWMd2I http://www.quakeunity.com/file=2413
Urban Terror: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LC2sH9QXRwE
Warsow: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3WjOIgivCU
[Q --start Simoneer wrote--]
It's funny that you mention only games that combines genres. I don't think you've got this down right. Thanks for elaborating, though. Now I know I shouldn't take your opinion into consideration. You could at least have mentioned something like Mirror's Edge, in which the shooting elements come second and not first.
NOTE: I'm not saying that any of those you mentioned aren't in any way platformers. Don't get me wrong here. [/Q --end Simoneer wrote--]
These are all mods for quake engines(warsow for a quake 2 engine and others for quake 3 ) and like i said u can play these games only by platforming without even fragging anyone in the game. If i mentioned Mirror's Edge then i would clearly know nothing about first person platforming. I hope you take my opinions into consideration and if you feel offended by my opinions, then i apologize from the bottom of my heart. The platforming part of this games AKA jump maps, take years to master due to the sheer depth associated with the fundamental mechanics and physics, this is what makes them truly rewarding, just like say...playing the Piano.
Simoneer (29) on 10/1/2010 8:50 PM · edited · Permalink · Report
So in the end, you would call Counter-Strike a true platformer as well, because of the hard-to-master bunnyhop maps, and perhaps even surf maps, yes? All while traditional platformers are absolutely not true platformers? I agree that they're very rewarding (well, from my experience with Counter-Strike: Source bunny-hop and surf maps), but that's an irrelevant point.
But basically, Meshuggah is true heavy metal while Judas Priest is not, because Judas Priest was just an early example and Meshuggah is further developed (and incorporates various of musical elements). Right.
These games you mention should strictly be referred to as First-Person Platformers, or whatever, and not be compared with regular platformers, much less be called truer. Just like Meshuggah should go under the category of math metal, or whatever, and not be compared with regular heavy metal, much less be called "more real" than it's father.
mobygamer (92) on 10/2/2010 8:12 AM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Simoneer wrote--]So in the end, you would call Counter-Strike a true platformer as well, because of the hard-to-master bunnyhop maps, and perhaps even surf maps, yes? All while traditional platformers are absolutely not true platformers? I agree that they're very rewarding (well, from my experience with Counter-Strike: Source bunny-hop and surf maps), but that's an irrelevant point.
But basically, Meshuggah is true heavy metal while Judas Priest is not, because Judas Priest was just an early example and Meshuggah is further developed (and incorporates various of musical elements). Right.
These games you mention should strictly be referred to as First-Person Platformers, or whatever, and not be compared with regular platformers, much less be called truer. Just like Meshuggah should go under the category of math metal, or whatever, and not be compared with regular heavy metal, much less be called "more real" than it's father. [/Q --end Simoneer wrote--]
I never played the bunny-hop maps or surf maps on CS, so i don't think i am entitled to say anything about that. What i mean by "truer" is that they do a better job of representing the depth that can be associated in the "simple" act of jumping present in videogames. I am sorry if i confused you, by saying "truer".
Simoneer (29) on 10/2/2010 1:26 PM · edited · Permalink · Report
I understand what you're saying, and by this logic, DOOM is not a real FPS because it has less depth than recent ones. Don't get me wrong here, I really do not have a quarrel with you or anything, and I'm not trying to make you feel bad. I just strictly disagree with you. In fact, I don't think I could disagree more. My Mom likes platformers because of their simplicity. Because they're so easy to get into. I guess her opinion would be reversed; these you mention are the untrue ones.
What would you classify Super Mario as, anyway?
mobygamer (92) on 10/2/2010 5:49 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Simoneer wrote--]I understand what you're saying, and by this logic, DOOM is not a real FPS because it has less depth than recent ones. Don't get me wrong here, I really do not have a quarrel with you or anything, and I'm not trying to make you feel bad. I just strictly disagree with you. In fact, I don't think I could disagree more. My Mom likes platformers because of their simplicity. Because they're so easy to get into. I guess her opinion would be reversed; these you mention are the untrue ones.
What would you classify Super Mario as, anyway? [/Q --end Simoneer wrote--]
Well i guess you are right. I came out a little bit rude, when i said Mario isn't a true platformer. Glad we sorted that out. Now excuse me, i am gonna play mages layer :D
Simoneer (29) on 10/2/2010 6:21 PM · edited · Permalink · Report
[Q --start I4C wrote--] Well i guess you are right. I came out a little bit rude, when i said Mario isn't a true platformer. Glad we sorted that out. [/Q --end I4C wrote--] I was ruder than you were, though. So no worries here.
[Q --start I4C wrote--] Now excuse me, i am gonna play mages layer :D [/Q --end I4C wrote--] Haha. A fine way of ending an arguement. A fine way indeed. :)
high fives
Unicorn Lynx (181780) on 9/30/2010 12:21 AM · Permalink · Report
Yup, I loved that review too. I also happen to agree with much of the stuff he says in the Bad section (though I do love MGS series). He exaggerates as usual, of course, but the charismatic writing style is irresistible :)
It's a pity he re-wrote one of his best and funniest works, the Diablo II review. The current one on file was more like an angry rebuttal; but the one before had a truly huilarious paragraph about Tetris having a great, deep story about urbanization or something like that... intended as a satiric demonstration of how fans can inflate the stories of the games they like.
Indra was here (20756) on 10/5/2010 9:16 AM · Permalink · Report
We obviously need more reviews that trash games with style. An equal amount of love/hate mail should make us 'objective'. Heh. :p
Lain Crowley (6629) on 10/5/2010 5:18 PM · Permalink · Report
Trust me, I have been trying to find some well known game that I have as much venom for as Monkey Island 3. The next thing I write, however, will probably be an absolutely glowing review of Fatal Frame II.