Forums > Game Forums > Shin Megami Tensei > God or Devil?
Unicorn Lynx (181780) on 5/21/2007 12:39 PM · Permalink · Report
Whose side would you be on? Or would you be neutral and fight them both?
Donatello (466) on 5/21/2007 1:07 PM · Permalink · Report
I haven't really played it but suggesting by your review I assume both sides are not so black and white like Mario and Bowser are.
It's a hard question really. If followers of Law are so fanatical like you describe in you review then I definately would not pick them. Religion and faith is not something some group can choose for you, you must choose and come to it yourself. On the other side, Chaos breaks the moral codes but it's still a better choice than Law.
I'll stick with Neutral. And in the DnD system best aligment that fits my personality is Chaotic Neutral, with a little bit Chaotic Good mixed in.
The Fabulous King (1332) on 7/3/2007 6:54 AM · Permalink · Report
Since God and Devil were both very ruthless and cruel, I would take neutral. But that just the Paladin in me talking. I take it that the world in SMT 2 follows the neutral ending? Just shows you that anything can go wrong.
Shoddyan (15002) on 7/3/2007 7:18 AM · edited · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Drunken Irishman wrote--]Since God and Devil were both very ruthless and cruel, I would take neutral. But that just the Paladin in me talking. I take it that the world in SMT 2 follows the neutral ending? Just shows you that anything can go wrong. [/Q --end Drunken Irishman wrote--]
Don't Paladins usually follow the "God" side in most games?.. in fact, in some games they're depicted as mindlessly following the orders of the righteous empire... be it an accurate title or not.
The Fabulous King (1332) on 7/3/2007 9:42 AM · edited · Permalink · Report
Misinterpretation of Paladins. By the things that they themselves say, they should follow what is right by nature. If God is evil, they should oppose him. I dont know why Paladins have been desecrated into mindless stupid self-righteous fascists (probably because the rebel is cool and someone has to take the can), but my first experience with a Paladin was Rakeesh... and he most likely wouldnt have followed neither SMT spiritual leaders (probably because both Law and Chaos were rather demonic in nature). Though I think he might have found neutral path also lacking... the thing with neutral in SMT was that it didn`t give full closure to things... it was just like pushing the inevitable forward.
Besides, in SMT universe God is actually an evil yellow head of Patrick Stewart, and Satan and Lucifer are totally different persons... actually the question should be "Satan or Lucifer?", but that probably would have just confused people.
Basically, while the devil characters have some human elements in them and thus one can understand them and why they do things that they do (well almost), YHVH in SMT is just a big metaphysical mess dreamed up by an opium addict that I had no regret killing.
End of geek rant.
Unicorn Lynx (181780) on 7/3/2007 10:07 AM · Permalink · Report
You are talking about SMT2, not SMT. In SMT, you don't meet YHVH, Satan, and Lucifer yet. Instead, you have two best friends, and over the course of the game one of them joins Law, and the other Chaos. So if you take the Neutral path, you'll have to kill them both...
In the beginning one of your friends is a really good, caring, peace-loving person. And the other one is a lovable hooligan who helps the poor, a kind of a Robin Hood. And then you see how the first slowly transforms into a religious fanatic, and the second into a mass murderer. You see how the first guy's love to order and justice gradually transforms into hatred to anyone who is against those things, and how utterly merciless he becomes when he eliminates those who oppose his ideals. And the second guy's bitterness grows out of proportions, until it turns into extreme cruelty towards everyone.
The point is that the Law guys is a typical Paladin. He starts as supporter of justice, and ends as religious fanatic. Because what he believes in is Law, no matter how ugly and cruel it is.
That's the genius of the game, it shows how appealing ideologies are turned into something terrible, and how blurred the line between "good" and "evil" is.
The Fabulous King (1332) on 7/3/2007 10:35 AM · Permalink · Report
I thought that the discussion was about SMT in general. Since youve already told me that one doesnt meat God or Devil in the first game and taking into consideration the title... well, one can understand where I got confused and started to ramble about SMT 2.
And I refuse to acknowledge that Paladin`s are only religious fanatics... that portrayal is just the most popular one and is already a tired cliché. Was Rakeesh a religious fanatic? Considering how nicely and warm-heartedly he treated the thief character I think not.
Donatello (466) on 7/3/2007 4:02 PM · Permalink · Report
I tried to play SMT but it freezed after I slept in my room. Don't know what causes this bug.
By the way, are the SMT games connected besides similar theme and gameplay? Like recurring characters?
Wanted to play Persona as well but don't have a PSX memory card anymore and I don't like playing on emulator much. I tried it, yes and looked very promising.
Unicorn Lynx (181780) on 7/3/2007 6:16 PM · edited · Permalink · Report
I tried to play SMT but it freezed after I slept in my room. Don't know what causes this bug
Were you using ZSNES? If so, don't. This is a common problem. Try another emulator, such as SNES9x.
By the way, are the SMT games connected besides similar theme and gameplay? Like recurring characters?
SMT and SMT2 are closely connected. One recurrent character is Steven, the guy in the wheelchair. Another one is Lucifer, he appears in the first SMT under a fake name.
SMT: Nocturne (SMT3 in Japan) is not connected to the first two, except obvious stylistic, story-telling, and gameplay similarities.
Edit: oh wait, Lucifer appears in SMT3 too.
Indra was here (20756) on 7/3/2007 8:50 PM · edited · Permalink · Report
Can we emulate this game on PC yet? My PS2 met God before I did. And last time I remember playing the game, I was still impressed...
Oooh, Persona. Now that's a game I need to get back to...
PS to Gui. Shin Megami Tensai in English version is called Digital Devil Saga. Had trouble finding Shin Megami Tensai when I bought the game.
chirinea (47496) on 7/3/2007 9:55 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Indra Depari of the Clan Depari wrote--]PS to Gui. Shin Megami Tensai in English version is called Digital Devil Saga. Had trouble finding Shin Megami Tensai when I bought the game. [/Q --end Indra Depari of the Clan Depari wrote--] Thanks Indra, but I found it as Shin Megami Tensei, since I was looking for the SNES version. I'm gonna give it a try soon.
Unicorn Lynx (181780) on 7/4/2007 3:31 AM · Permalink · Report
Shin Megami Tensai in English version is called Digital Devil Saga
No, Shin Megami Tensei: Digital Devil Saga is not equivalent to main SMT games; it's a little side series in Megaten universe. And a great one at that.
You probably wanted to say "Digital Devil Story". This is the of the very first two Megaten games only.
The Fabulous King (1332) on 7/4/2007 6:54 AM · edited · Permalink · Report
Short and incomplete summary of Megaten games with youtube videos.
Couldnt find any videos for first two Megami Tensei games but as far as I know from Olegs article, the first two games were remade into Shin Megami Tensei I and II.
The first two Shins are classical dungeon crawlers full of lots of mythological references and metaphysical nonsense and cryptic stuff. Do some joints, play and youll see how the universe reveals it`s secrets to you. Shin games have categorized all the major mythological and religious creatures and figures into specific places on the Law/Chaos axis.
1) Shin Megami Tensei I video.
2) Shin Megami Tensei II video with Patrick Stewart.
Shin 3 seems to be a bit different. Wondefully cel-shaded also.
Persona series.
I have only played Persona 2 part II, and apart from the art design and basic feel of the game, there didn`t seem to be any connection with Shin series. This take place in modern Japan, mostly in high school. Kinda has that classical high school horror feel also. Persona 2 was quite enjoyable, though one big major annoyance was that the game story was divided between many dungeons (clear dungeon, experience story, rinse and repeat).
Couldn`t find any videos for Persona 1. But as far as I have heard the english localization was pretty horrible also so...
3) Persona 3 trailer. Feels too emo. Well just have to wait Olegs review for this one. If he sounds too defensive in that review then we`ll know why.
Digital Devil Saga seems to be more of a cinematic game. Despite the lame and corny name it has wonderful and stylish cel-shading and most likely an entertaining storyline also.
1) Digital Devil Saga I intro.
2) Digital Devil Saga I ingame video.
Then there some Devil Kids games for gameboy and... lots of other tongue-twisting names. Frankly there are too many Megaten games for a normal person to play through. So these three main sub-game series of Megaten should be enough.
And here`s some weird Kazumo Kaneko demonic art for all you with interests in art.
Donatello (466) on 7/4/2007 8:51 AM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Drunken Irishman wrote--]
3) Persona 3 trailer. Feels too emo. Well just have to wait Olegs review for this one. If he sounds too defensive in that review then we`ll know why.
[/Q --end Drunken Irishman wrote--]
Didn't feel emo at all.
Little surprised though. You have to literally shoot yourself in the game to call out Persona, so where is Jack Thompson?
I read somewhere that Persona: Innocent Sin wasn't released in USA because at that time school shootings were a hot topic.
Unicorn Lynx (181780) on 7/4/2007 10:39 AM · edited · Permalink · Report
Despite the lame and corny name it has wonderful and stylish cel-shading and most likely an entertaining storyline also.
The two Digital Devil Saga games have the best story line of any Megaten game, and generally one of the best stories ever. Not to mention that it has all kinds of allusions to Hinduism... a true delight!
The Fabulous King (1332) on 7/4/2007 11:33 AM · edited · Permalink · Report
Is it just me or the forums look weird now?
EDIT: Some threads look ok, but this one looks like one of tose threads in IMDB.
First Post
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Re:First Post
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Re: Re: Offtopic post
I am so confused and frightened.
DJP Mom (11333) on 7/4/2007 5:38 PM · edited · Permalink · Report
I may be confused about which view is which, then :-) I read it the way you show it in your Imageshack picture...is that flat, or threaded?
I'm sorry to go off topic even more, DI, but this has been bugging me - whether the view mode shows the view you are in, or the view you will be in if you click it!
chirinea (47496) on 7/4/2007 5:44 PM · Permalink · Report
That's Flat, Mom. Flat is when you can see all the posts at the same time, threaded is when you can see only one post at a time and a tree of posts at the top. The link on that pic says "threaded" because, when you click there, the forum turns to be threaded.