Forums > Game Forums > Freedom Force vs The 3rd Reich > German release?

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Pseudo_Intellectual (66248) on 9/24/2008 7:06 PM · edited · Permalink · Report

With explicit reference to the Nazi regime in the game's very title, how did this game ever overcome the very restrictive German laws prohibiting Nazi content in video games? Just omit SS logos and replace swastikas with iron crosses?

(eek! while poking around a bit on google in hopes to answer my own question, I came across some very disturbing white power homebrew titles... "concentration camp manager" sims and the like. Would documenting these constitute a sort of tacit endorsement of their contents? And how would we keep them off the front page?)

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Pseudo_Intellectual (66248) on 9/24/2008 7:19 PM · Permalink · Report

how did this game ever overcome the very restrictive German laws prohibiting Nazi content in video games? Just omit SS logos and replace swastikas with iron crosses?

To elaborate on the answer to my own question, that works because it's not that it's illegal to depict Nazis, but to display specific unconstitutional symbols associated with them.

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Xoleras (66143) on 9/24/2008 8:51 PM · Permalink · Report

Tell this to the makers of Return to Castle Wolfenstein, which replaced the Nazis with "wolf cult followers".

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micnictic (387) on 9/25/2008 9:22 PM · Permalink · Report

[Q --start Pseudo_Intellectual wrote--] To elaborate on the answer to my own question, that works because it's not that it's illegal to depict Nazis, but to display specific unconstitutional symbols associated with them. [/Q --end Pseudo_Intellectual wrote--]

Theoretically it's not illegal to depict a swastika in Germany, as long as the means are not to glorify. In movies it's rather unproblematic, yet the games industry usually prefers taking no risk with German releases. A good example is Indiana Jones. The movies show swastikas, the games have it removed.

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Xoleras (66143) on 9/26/2008 3:14 AM · Permalink · Report

How does playing an escaped American POW, who kills all Nazis on sight and later even turns Hitler into a bloody mess, does glorify anything of Nazi Germany?

On the other hand, you can watch movies with fictional what if's where the Third Reich conquers America or the entire world without problems.

It actually is a matter of it being used for documentation or "art". Movies fall under art and can display tons or swastika, but even as one swastika is in a (computer) game, it's over. This is because games aren't art, but toys. And toys can't ever have unconstitutional symbols in to, regardless of the purpose.

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micnictic (387) on 9/26/2008 1:01 PM · Permalink · Report

I'm not so sure about this. The removed swastikas in games like "Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade" or "Return to Castle Wolfenstein" are cases of self-censorship on behalf of frightened publishers, probably in fear of their products being confiscated. Yet there's no precedent, where something like that has ever happened (as far as I know). And without any intention to praise legal practice in Germany, I'd still consider an average court smart enough to figure out the indeed rather obvious thing, that a game like "Wolfenstein" is not supporting, but confronting Nazi ideology (in its own bloody style)

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Terok Nor (41733) on 9/26/2008 2:15 PM · Permalink · Report

[Q --start Daniel Steinbrück wrote--]Yet there's no precedent, where something like that has ever happened (as far as I know). [/Q --end Daniel Steinbrück wrote--]

There are three, actually: Wolfenstein 3D, Commandos and Mortyr.

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micnictic (387) on 9/26/2008 4:05 PM · Permalink · Report

Oops!

I always thought, "Wolfenstein 3D" just joined the index for excessive violence. I didn't know it was also confiscated for usage of unconstitutional symbols. Guess, I'll have to surrender then.

As that paragraph was written with neo-nazis in mind, to "defend our constitution" and such, where's the sense in banning games, where you fight against nazis? Surely weird.

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Foxhack (32102) on 10/2/2008 4:17 AM · Permalink · Report

[Q --start Daniel Steinbrück wrote--]I'm not so sure about this. The removed swastikas in games like "Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade" or "Return to Castle Wolfenstein" are cases of self-censorship on behalf of frightened publishers, probably in fear of their products being confiscated. Yet there's no precedent, where something like that has ever happened (as far as I know). And without any intention to praise legal practice in Germany, I'd still consider an average court smart enough to figure out the indeed rather obvious thing, that a game like "Wolfenstein" is not supporting, but confronting Nazi ideology (in its own bloody style) [/Q --end Daniel Steinbrück wrote--]German lawmakers? Thinking about this stupid law?

You've got to be kidding. There's no way in hell this will be repealed, ever.

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Indra was here (20760) on 9/25/2008 8:08 PM · Permalink · Report

[Q --start Pseudo_Intellectual wrote--]"concentration camp manager" sims and the like.
[/Q --end Pseudo_Intellectual wrote--]

Sounds like my kinda game right now. Trying to add Prison Tycoon 2 and not enjoying any moment of the gameplay currently.