Forums > News > Pigs get fed. Hogs get slaughtered.
nullnullnull (1463) on 2/6/2007 3:55 PM · edited · Permalink · Report
The Globe and Mail is running a story on a first time, would be PS3 profiteer who ended up taking a bath. Actually he is trying to unload the units at or near retail price for a $1300 loss, so the bath is yet to come. The schmo had the chance to unload the units for at least $2,500 each.
"I just kept thinking, 'keep it until Christmas,' " he said. "And that was a mistake. A huge mistake."
While the story is a bit touching, I have little sympathy for scalpers. Sure the market is all messed up when supply cannot meet demand. However if you read the market wrong or wait too long because you are greedy ... well ... you get what you deserve. Sony seems to be a victim of its own hype. The uninformed snapped up all the available launch units while real gamers seemed to have stayed away. Now there are untold units lying around with no one playing them and most importantly for publishers no one buying games.
I will probably get a PS3 sooner or later. I just have to get a new TV or Sony will have to fix the up convert chip issue.
D Michael (222) on 2/7/2007 12:56 AM · Permalink · Report
If people wouldn't spend $1500 for a console there wouldn't be any scalpers. It's just as much the consumers' fault as it is Sony's for creating an environment where people will shoot or trample each other for a system that they probably won't even play.
Indra was here (20755) on 2/8/2007 8:08 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start D Michael wrote--]If people wouldn't spend $1500 for a console there wouldn't be any scalpers. It's just as much the consumers' fault as it is Sony's for creating an environment where people will shoot or trample each other for a system that they probably won't even play. [/Q --end D Michael wrote--]
Don't neccesarily blame it on the consumers. Blame it on the nagging kids constantly whining their parents for the next state-of-the-art gaming technology.
Blame it on the parents who don't want to look bad for not getting their kids the next state-of-the-art gaming technology for christmas. what will the neighbours think?
er...then again, blame it on the consumers. :)
Ace of Sevens (4479) on 2/7/2007 3:55 AM · Permalink · Report
This guy though easy money and knew nothing about the business or economics, for that matter. If he had, he would have known that these things always drop in price. Demand is slowly satisfied (anyone who wants for for Christmas already wants one when they launch) as supply steadily increases.
Maw (832) on 2/7/2007 6:43 AM · Permalink · Report
If some nerd actually wants to pay that much for a console who gets hurt? It's not like gamers are getting scammed or lied to. IMO scalping is a risky business that doesn't deserve either criticism or sympathy, if someone can make money that way, good for them.
Marko Poutiainen (1151) on 2/7/2007 7:57 AM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Maw wrote--]If some nerd actually wants to pay that much for a console who gets hurt? It's not like gamers are getting scammed or lied to.[/Q --end Maw wrote--] There is a set number of consoles in the market which is the reason for this in the first place. Then there are these scalpers get their hands on small set of consoles usually because they the right persons. The common consumer is the looser here because the scalpers have reduced the number of consoles in the market.
Marko Poutiainen (1151) on 2/7/2007 9:03 AM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Maw wrote--]How do you figure? By putting the consoles back on the market (albeit with a 300% markup) aren't they increasing the number of consoles available as opposed to keeping the machines for personal use? [/Q --end Maw wrote--] They buy more than one. And increasing the price means some people can't afford them any more.
Riamus (8480) on 2/7/2007 2:37 PM · Permalink · Report
Exactly. The retail-priced console supply is reduced greatly by all of the scalpers and then only the rich (and foolish) have access to them when the scalpers put them back on the market at greatly increased prices. For the average consumer, supplies are reduced greatly.
That was the problem with the collector's edition of World of Warcraft: The Burning Crusade. A lot of people bought multiple copies just to sell for really high prices ($200-300) to people. This made the already limited supplies even more limited.
monkeyislandgirl (8627) on 2/7/2007 2:48 PM · Permalink · Report
Umm the actual article is fictional right? I mean I'm sure people have suffered from greed from the same or similar fashion but the actual "story" seems too detailed and "juicy" to be true. I mean who the hell would give all this details to someone else to post?
I know i'm missing the point but I'm curious...
Plus I wouldn't care about the PS3 until December 2007.
Maw (832) on 2/7/2007 6:45 PM · Permalink · Report
Guys, think about it for a second. Scalping only becomes profitable when there are limited numbers of consoles available. Is it price people care about on launch day, or volume? Scalpers are simply raising the price to bring demand into line with supply. The alternative is not paying regular price, the alternative is not being able to get them at all. It's economics.
Marko Poutiainen (1151) on 2/7/2007 8:51 PM · Permalink · Report
Nope, it's cheating, because normal people don't have the opportunity or contacts to be on the same stepping as these scalpers.
Maw (832) on 2/7/2007 9:17 PM · Permalink · Report
Look, you and I must be talking on completely different wavelengths. The majority of gamers will never get a console on launch day no matter what they cost. When demand exceeds supply some people will pay higher prices rather then wait a few months.
Riamus (8480) on 2/7/2007 9:30 PM · Permalink · Report
The point is that without the scalpers, MORE people will get them on launch day than they would otherwise. It doesn't increase supply if scalpers buy them then sell them. It's still the same number of machines (or games or whatever else) being sold. Some are just being sold from other sources and at an increased price. It has no affect on actual supply/demand because the numbers don't change. The only change is that fewer people who actually want the item(s) can get them on launch day because the scalpers have them already. And unless you have the money to afford them AND the knowledge of where and how to contact those scalpers (eBay is usually a good bet, but not always), you have less chance of getting one with scalpers around than when they aren't there.
Example: A store has 10 units. A scalper comes in and buys 5. That leaves only 5 units for the average consumer to try and get. The other people can pay extra for those other 5 once they find where to get them. But for the average person, 5 fewer people can get them at the normal price/store.
Maw (832) on 2/7/2007 10:34 PM · Permalink · Report
Maybe there's something I'm missing but I don't see how it's that much worse than rare memorabilia being sold for way over its actual value at an auction. Limited supply drives up price. It sucks but it's capitalism. He who dies with the most toys wins right? :D
Riamus (8480) on 2/8/2007 1:04 AM · Permalink · Report
The difference is that the person buying the older items are collectors and people who WANT the items. Scalpers buy them to sell them at high prices. They don't care about it or want it. They just want to make a quick buck. I love it when they lose out.
Shoddyan (15004) on 2/8/2007 6:51 AM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Riamus wrote--]The difference is that the person buying the older items are collectors and people who WANT the items. Scalpers buy them to sell them at high prices. They don't care about it or want it. They just want to make a quick buck. I love it when they lose out. [/Q --end Riamus wrote--]
A lot of antiques dealers and etc. buy items for the express purpose of selling them to another customer who will pay more for it. In some cases, the best way to do this to to group a bunch of similar items together (say... buying up every known US released NES game and selling it on ebay) as many items go better together as a set (especially when talking furniture).
So... obviously NES games don't have the same demand as a PS3, being 20 years old... but as someone pointed out in another thread (at least I think they did... I can't seem to find it on the forum anymore)... some of those games are rare individually... and being bought by a "collector" like this takes it off of the market for other people. I already get upset when a local software store dumps a bunch of not-selling videogame items, even though I never had any intention of getting them myself. Because now I have one less avenue available to find and buy the game... should I ever need it (which I probably don't). Ahem... I'm getting sidetracked here.
The only "news" in this article is that the item in question, a PS3, built up around the hype of a "must have christmas present" (Tickle Me Sony!) and the seller misread the market as to when would be the most profitable time to sell it (mostly by people thinking with their emotions or having watched too much hype more than anything else).
Riamus (8480) on 2/8/2007 11:39 PM · Permalink · Report
Again, these are being bought by people who are collectors or who want them to use. Yes, sometimes auctions go to other dealers, but they are still selling them for expected prices. Taking a brand new system and selling it for double or triple the price just because you can reduce the number available at the regulard prices by buying up a lot of them is very different.
Marko Poutiainen (1151) on 2/8/2007 12:07 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start D Michael wrote--]What's the difference if it's new and rare or old and rare? If 10 people want 1 item, new or old doesn't factor into it. The purpose for which that 1/10 gets the item doesn't factor into it either.[/Q --end D Michael wrote--] Difference is there is no real list prices for that old stuff. There are catalogs so usually if you want to profit on old stuff you will need to buy it under the catalog price because it's hard to sell above it unless you get lucky. So if you are buyer you can usually expect to find what you want for for a certain price.
In the consoles' case there is a list price with which everyone is expected to get one.
Ace of Sevens (4479) on 2/8/2007 12:59 AM · Permalink · Report
What contacts do you think scalpers are exploiting? Most are standing in line or preordering like everyone else.
Marko Poutiainen (1151) on 2/8/2007 12:08 PM · Permalink · Report
If I was a scalper I would find a store clerk and make a deal that if he puts me on top of the preorder list he'll get half the profits. Shouldn't be too hard to find willing accomplishes from those under-paid storekeepers.
D Michael (222) on 2/8/2007 3:28 PM · edited · Permalink · Report
Theory at best. In the article mentioned on this thread, this scalper was doing what most gamers were doing; calling stores, shopping, driving long distances...
There weren't enough consoles to meet demand. Even if there wasn't one single scalper, there still wouldn't have been near enough at release. It doesn't matter if a person purchased the PS3 to play it, resell it, stash it in their basement, or bury it in the desert next to the ET cartridges, there simply weren't enough at release for the people that wanted the system. That is nobody's fault but Sony's.
What's next, push for legislation that will require you by law to fill out an affidavit stating that buying new systems is solely for the purpose of playing them?
Indra was here (20755) on 2/8/2007 8:21 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Maw wrote--]It's economics. [/Q --end Maw wrote--]
I agree with Maw. It's pure micro economics. And in economics, ethics is usually not a variable.
D Michael (222) on 2/8/2007 12:43 AM · Permalink · Report
But is the gamer unable to get a console because the scalpers grabbed them up? Whether it's a scalper or another gamer, the bottom line is that if there is a limited number of consoles, and someone gets to them before you do, it doesn't matter how or why they have it. The point is, there isn't supply to meet demand.
Scott Monster (986) on 2/8/2007 2:55 AM · Permalink · Report
The wonders of free market. For every rich guy, there's about a hundred guys who got poor by trying a get rich scheme.
infromthecold on 2/8/2007 9:26 PM · edited · Permalink · Report
I read the PS3 article and I think everyone is guilty in this case: The retailers, scalper, Sony, and regular buyers and gamers.......
The scalper who tried to Ebay these PS3 systems was greedy, plain and simple. He waited and would not sell for $5000 US Dollars!!!!! Like the Dot Com Folks who believed that Web sites flush with cash from naive venture capitalists and overpaid staffers would last and the stock would rise.........Come on...we all knew that would not happen as technology would get faster, better, and more efficient!!! A retraction was ineveitable.
SONY could care less about the average consumer getting a PS3!! All their job is to do is to get the retailers their units and drive up demand in any way possible. Secondly, The retailers are in bed with Sony and as long as a retailer, any retailer, gets 1 unit of any product or appliance, they are exempt from false advertising laws. Ive never heard of any retailer ever guranteeing anyone anything!!!
Now Us, the game players and enthusiasts who enjoy Video Games of all sorts and fashions. We dont want to spend $5000 on a system and call foul when an Ebayer posts a system for a gazillion dollars!!! Unfair we cry!!! Well Life is not Fair!!!
Its kind of like the guy who goes to college and his parents own the Railroad and he has everything paid for and here we are working two minimum wage jobs and graduating with Uber debt. Unfair.......But Thats Life!!!
I have to admit myself that most people I know who cry and whine about things being unfair are jealous of those who are more resourceful, who hustle more. Every year I go to the Black Friday sales and get eveything I want on sale because I wait out all night and in any weather to get the deals on the items I want , all of which I am keeping to play my games on and none of it is going on Ebay.
And then the funny part...when I go to work or tell a friend that i got Neverwinter Nights 2 for $25 at bestbuy, a 160 GB SATA HD for $20, and a 500 watt ATX power supply for free they answer, "HOW".....Well, its not rocket science for Crissake!!!! JUst hustle and get out there and youll get one!!!!! But mention staying out all night, they wont do it cause they are lazy.
I kind of see everybody being at fault for this PS3 fiasco. But mostly people have to hustle to get theirs, like the Ebay speculators do....
Ive also been known to Dumptser Dive for Old Games but thats a Secret!!!
Thanks,
Infromthecold
Maw (832) on 2/8/2007 9:43 PM · Permalink · Report
[quote]SONY could care less about the average consumer getting a PS3!! All their job is to do is to get the retailers their units and drive up demand in any possible. Secondly, The retailers are in bed with Sony and as long as a retailer, any retailer, gets 1 unit of any product or appliance, they are exempt from false advertising laws. Ive never heard of any retailer ever guranteeing anyone anything!!![/quote] Nods it's not like scalping has any negative affects on Sony. Once someone buys a PS3 the transaction is done, over, complete, regardless of whether the buyer wants to play games on the console or sell it on eBay.
I don't think there will ever be laws in place to prevent console scalping because manufacturers don't give a crap and just consider it to be the free market at work. Ticket scalping is only illegal because there is always limited space at a certain event and they can't just print more tickets. But this doesn't apply to consoles since Sony can always make more PS3s.