Forums > Game Forums > Demon's Souls > Why so difficult?
BurningStickMan (17916) on 2/20/2011 2:06 AM · Permalink · Report
Whenever anyone mentions this game, it seems to be in the context of "OH, IT'S SO TOUGH!" I've never heard an explanation why; it just seems to be taken as a given.
So, can anyone tell me what exactly it is that makes this such a "brutally difficult" game? I haven't played it, and I'm curious.
Adzuken (836) on 2/20/2011 2:38 AM · Permalink · Report
It's not so much that the game is difficult, it's that it's unforgiving. People seem to get the two concepts confused. None of the enemies or bosses pose that much of a threat, but dying to them costs you dearly. Not only do you have to go back a typically long distance, but you're penalized greatly. You lose all your experience points, which doubles as money (though, your level is retained) and you're reduced to your soul, which halves your health bar and, depending on the alignment of the level you're on, may reduce your attack power. You can't return to your living human form until you defeat a boss or use a special item. You can also regain your lost experience if you make it to the spot that you died without dying again.
The thing is; If you're careful and you don't die, the game can be a bit of a cakewalk. You're allowed to summon other players who are in their soul form to help you, and there's no real detriment to doing so. But staying in your human form is easier said than done. Demon's Soul doesn't hold your hand, and you may wander into a zone where enemies are a lot stronger than you are, or that you're not equipped to handle. Not to mention, there's a lot of instant death that you might not be able to avoid due to a lack of clairvoyance.
That's just a basic overview of it, but I hope it shed some light.
Indra was here (20755) on 2/20/2011 3:22 AM · edited · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Adzuken wrote--]Not only do you have to go back a typically long distance, but you're penalized greatly. You lose all your experience points, which doubles as money (though, your level is retained) and you're reduced to your soul, which halves your health bar and, depending on the alignment of the level you're on, may reduce your attack power. You can't return to your living human form until you defeat a boss or use a special item. [/Q --end Adzuken wrote--] Game developers being annoying donkey-holes. Well, only if it is that unforgiving.
Lain Crowley (6629) on 2/20/2011 3:33 AM · Permalink · Report
You would prefer what, exactly? Letting the player wander around and slay everything over and over, with no thought, like Dynasty Warriors? Dying hurts in DS, and not thinking/learning will get you killed real quick. This is why you take things slow, test things out, and learn how to play the game instead of setting your brain on autopilot and tapping the X button like a 1 note Guitar Hero song.
Adzuken (836) on 2/20/2011 3:51 AM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Lain Crowley wrote--]You would prefer what, exactly? Letting the player wander around and slay everything over and over, with no thought, like Dynasty Warriors? Dying hurts in DS, and not thinking/learning will get you killed real quick. This is why you take things slow, test things out, and learn how to play the game instead of setting your brain on autopilot and tapping the X button like a 1 note Guitar Hero song. [/Q --end Lain Crowley wrote--] Precisely. In most games you can walk into a boss chamber and be willing to take a loss in the name of observation through trial and error. In Demon's Souls it's something you want to avoid at all costs. The unforgiving nature of the game can be trying at some points when you're punished for getting killed by an off-camera enemy, but nothing can compare with facing off against a foe that's ten times your height, determined not to lose. Few games can get away with this kind of punishment, which is why Demon's Souls is so masterful.
j.raido 【雷堂嬢太朗】 (95319) on 2/20/2011 5:04 AM · edited · Permalink · Report
I find it interesting how Demon's Souls and Super Meat Boy are both critically-acclaimed "super hardcore" difficult games, but they take completely different approaches to the concept of difficulty. One gives death extreme consequences, with the difficulty coming from cautiously figuring out what to do while trying to simply stay alive, while the other gives death virtually no consequence, then making it virtually impossible to finish any given stage without first dying several dozen times. In both cases the idea is to learn the environment and obstacles in order to succeed, and in both cases success feels rewarding.
Death as punishment only works when your mechanics are sound. I wish contemporary game designers would learn this, rather than saying death and life counters are a "relic of the arcade age" that should be done away with. If you need to put in quicksaves or a bazillion checkpoints to keep your game from frustrating players, you probably need to balance it a little better.
Indra was here (20755) on 2/20/2011 5:49 AM · edited · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Lain Crowley wrote--]You would prefer what, exactly? Letting the player wander around and slay everything over and over, with no thought... [/Q --end Lain Crowley wrote--] Well, I'm pretty sure every gamer here has experienced games that knows the difference between 'extremely challenging' and 'simply down right frustrating'. Succeeding in the later experience doesn't tend to provide adequate satisfaction.
Meeting bosses that have instant-kill spells in 10 turns with no chance to avoid them is one example. Makes a difference if you get a heads up...but how many games even bother to do that?
BurningStickMan (17916) on 2/20/2011 6:04 AM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Adzuken wrote--] ...snip...
That's just a basic overview of it, but I hope it shed some light. [/Q --end Adzuken wrote--]
That explains it all quite well, actually. I almost think it should be incorporated into the description somehow. Barring that, trivia?
I guess the insta-kill parts are where the "leaving notes for other players" thing kicks in?
And how much of a hassle is it with other enemy players able to invade your game? Seems ripe for griefing.
Adzuken (836) on 2/20/2011 2:31 PM · Permalink · Report
Yes, the insta-kills are usually offset by players leaving notes. You can also generally tell when there's a trap nearby because you can see the bloodstains of dead players and witness their final moments. The more deadly a trap, the more bloodstains you'll see.
As for players invading your game, it has really only happened to me once, and the guy actually just wanted to help and didn't want to wait for an invitation. I've never really looked further into this aspect of the game, but if I'm not mistaken, there's no reward for killing a living player. Except maybe the satisfaction of being a colossal dick, which to some people is enough, but I've had not troubles from it.
All this talk of Demon's Souls has made me want to start playing again. Perhaps I should before they shut the servers down. Whenever that will be.