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Forums > MobyGames > Approver Issues, as well as general questions.

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John Smith (369) on 2/12/2022 8:09 PM · Permalink · Report

I don’t want to sound ungrateful, but I’ve had a lot of problems with approvers, and I’m pretty new to this site. Is there some sort of appeal if you disagree with (or do not understand the decision of) an approver? And is there a good way to contact the specific approver in question? I’ll give some examples

1. I recently added a new distance record game. The game was given the NORWEGIAN title “Sesam Katapult” on launch, but was later renamed to the ENGLISH title “Catapult”. By the Mobygames standards, the game should be added under the English title; “Primary title should be the title of the earliest US release (non-working title). If there is no US release then the UK title or an English title should be used. Outside of this it should be the original release title no matter the origin.”

The entry was sent to Sciere for approval, but he instead chose to invent a new name, “Sesam Catapult”, which the game has NEVER HAD in any language. How can this be fixed?

2. I sometimes take screenshots of flash games and put them up for approval, and I try to make them quite varied, including of gameplay, story, main menu, options menu, credit screen, etc. I have gotten the credit screen approved before (on strategy defense 1 and 2), but on “Catapult” it was denied by Sciere. The only explanation was “You can use this as a source image to submit the credits listing for the game using the Contribute link at the game entry.”, which I already knew. The credit screen is a part of the game, so why can’t I add a screenshot of it? Does it matter if the credit screen contains additional artwork not found elsewhere in the game?

3. When I added “Strategy Defense 2: The Three kingdoms”, I made a mistake and added it as simply “Strategy Defense 2” without the subtitle. I’m certainly willing to take most of the blame for this one myself. I have already submitted a correction for this one, though thinking back I’m a bit puzzled the original entry was approved.

4. The first two “Strategy Defense” games were distributed by CrazyMonkeyGames, a site owned by Westech LLC. At the time, I thought the I could simply add CrazyMonkeyGames to the database, and connect it to the games (Not knowing CrazyMonkeyGames was not the company itself), which is what I did. This also went through approval. I am sorry for this, and I have submitted a correction. Worse yet, the approver added Belugerin Games as publisher on both games without explanation. The CrazyMonkeyGames logo appears all over the game, and CrazyMonkeyGames.com is titled as “Sponsored by” on the credit screen, so one would think Westech LLC should be counted as publisher.

5. I have several times added tech-specs to games. 3 of them were recently rejected by WONDERなパン. The trouble is I don’t know entirely what I should have done differently. I got back “I figure it is unlikely, but I still must ask - any sources for the information provided?”, but everything should be immediately obvious; The games are easily accessible, in fact their pages on Mobygames links directly to them. I claimed in tech-specs that the games were in flash, which any flash gamer knows you can see by simply right-clicking on the game and looking at the context menu. I claimed (Freeware / Free-to-play / Public Domain) which nearly all flash games are. You are not met with any log-ins, monetary agreements or anything else stopping you from playing the game on crazymonkeygames.com or any of the other portals Belugerin Games added the game to so it should at least go under the “Free-to-play” category. I further claim required devices, which would prove itself if the approver only played the first 3 minutes of the game. (Besides, you can’t screenshot a mouse-click or a keyboard-press)

I could go on, but I wonder; do I have to explain the basics of how flash games work every time I add another flash game?

All of that being said, this is a great site, and I’m looking forward to documenting more games.

John Smith

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Alaka (106107) on 2/13/2022 12:44 AM · edited · Permalink · Report

  1. Since it's a browser game, it's tough to define a regional release title since I would assume anyone in the world can play it. Hence why I would think Sciere went with the original release title as the primary title. I changed the title to Sesam Katapult (I assume Sesam Catapult to be a copy and paste error) because as you said that was how it was originally released as.

  2. In general, credits shouldn't be added to screenshots, or else someone would be in their right to upload an entire credit set to a game. While that;s unlikely for a browser game, we tend to want rules to be for the entire site for simplicity sake. I won't reject the ones that got through, but in the future don't add them as screenshots.

  3. Subtitle added.

  4. Should be fixed though not sure Westech LLC as publisher so left blank for now.

  5. None of your tech specs are rejected. They are currently wiped back to you. Go to the homepage to see them. You can resubmit them if you like.

To be fair WONDER was most likely just doing a reflexive due diligence asking for a source. For browser tech specs, in general I would take the contributors word as they most likely played them.

Final addendum: Please keep in mind approvers are generally put in a tough position. Either we go over every entry with a fine tooth comb and then deal with complaints by contributors that their submissions are sitting in stasis for months or we try pushing through as many games with just a quick look over to make sure there's nothing glaringly obviously wrong.

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John Smith (369) on 2/16/2022 8:03 PM · Permalink · Report

Thanks for the reply, Alaka!

  1. I see, from now on then, I will use the Norwegian title in cases where the game effectively got a worldwide release.

  2. Fair enough. Could we state this explicitly in the "Screenshot" section (1.8) of the mobygames standards? Something like "Screenshots of credits are not accepted, unless they contain significant story or gameplay elements"

  3. Thanks.

  4. Thanks.

  5. Yeah sorry about that part, I'm still a bit new to the terminology. I will probably resubmit them with instructions on how to reproduce the tech-specs.

  6. One additional question though, am I allowed to add partial tech-specs? That is to say simply leaving boxes where I don't know blank? Or do I have to know all tech-specs in order to submit? And what exactly is the limit for if an input device is "required"? (Some games you would be capable of finishing without using the keyboard, but you would not be able to save.)

  7. One more additional question. Flash games have a default resolution (the resolution they open at when you open the .swf). These can be a bit important at times, because when you view a flash game at the wrong aspect ratio, only a subset of objects outside the intended viewport are visible, making the game look broken. these resolutions are often irregular and do not neatly fit into the "Video Resolutions Supported" boxes. It is OK if I add such resolutions to the "additional notes" section, right?

  8. One more additional question. What should be done with the "number of online players" for single player flash games? Should it be set to 1, as you probably went online to find the game, or should it be set to blank, as the game has already loaded in your browser when you start playing it?

Addendum: Please understand that I'm not trying to blame anyone for anything. If I came off as confrontational, then I apologize. I have immense respect for all those who spend far more resources and time than me helping to the expand database.

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Alaka (106107) on 2/17/2022 3:04 AM · Permalink · Report

  1. Ideally yes, but I'm not sure how easily editable the standards page is. Hopefully it can be more easily updated in the future,

  2. Yes, partial tech specs are fine.

Required means that you won't be able to play the game without the peripheral. Generally, games won't even let you past the title screen unless it detects the device is present. I would refrain from using the required tech spec unless the game itself says you absolutely need it. I would lean towards using the compatible option if given the choice.

  1. I would think adding them as additional notes wouldn't ruffle too many feathers.

  2. Granted the browser platform isn't my wheelhouse, but judging by the browser tech specs on file it seems 1 player online is the way to go. Take what I said with a grain of salt though..

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Cavalary (11445) on 2/13/2022 3:49 PM · Permalink · Report

You can always send a PM to the approver in question for clarification.

About Sciere, as the most experienced and also by far most active contributor on this site, it can generally be assumed that he knows what he's doing and why. But anyone can make some mistakes, of course, so see above about the PMs to ask for clarification if something seems off.

And you definitely can't expect the approver to play a game to check anything, it's entirely the contributor's responsibility to submit credible sources that can be quickly looked over to back up their submissions.

Otherwise, as ALAKA said, approvers are in a tough spot. Which is not to say that there aren't also some that can be a pain to work with, but overall, those approvers that are actually active and push submissions through have to go through huge numbers, so they have their own methods and things can slip through in haste, or they may not have the time to add detailed explanations, meaning that if something was approved at one point it doesn't necessarily mean it's generally allowed, and vice-versa.

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John Smith (369) on 2/16/2022 8:27 PM · Permalink · Report

Hi, Cavalery Thanks for the reply!

I don't have anything against PMs in general, but I'm not sure its possible to reach Sciere that way. I sent him a PM in early December, and I haven't gotten a reply.

I'm of course not saying an approver should play through an entire game. But many web games are free, immediately accessible without registration, and reproducing a core game-mechanic would take less than 1 minute. I can screenshot things, but one cannot screenshot a mouse-click of a keyboard-press.

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Cavalary (11445) on 2/17/2022 1:53 AM · Permalink · Report

[Q --start John Smith wrote--] I'm of course not saying an approver should play through an entire game. But many web games are free, immediately accessible without registration, and reproducing a core game-mechanic would take less than 1 minute. [/Q --end John Smith wrote--] Again, that's not the approver's responsibility. And at this very moment, the new games queue stands at 983 entries. And there are many, many other categories, and a handful of active volunteer approvers must keep it all moving in their spare time.

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BOIADEIRO ERRANTE (131005) on 2/13/2022 4:27 PM · Permalink · Report

It intrigues me that the best approvers - at least those that improved the scraped entries presented by me - are also the top three contributors of this website. You guys have my respect...

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Pseudo_Intellectual (66362) on 2/24/2022 10:22 PM · Permalink · Report

Just be glad you didn't start approving under the regime of Corn Popper... I'm not sure if he ever changed his mind about any of his arbitrary rulings, ever.

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lights out party (84255) on 3/7/2022 6:05 PM · edited · Permalink · Report

[Q --start John Smith wrote--]I further claim required devices, which would prove itself if the approver only played the first 3 minutes of the game. (Besides, you can’t screenshot a mouse-click or a keyboard-press)[/Q --end John Smith wrote--] You can't screenshot a mouse click, but you can write a quick outline about what is required/supported and for what. While it doesn't prove anything it at least gives context. (ie "Player control is keyboard or joystick, except bonus stages which are keyboard only, while menus are mouse only").