Forums > News > V.Flash Goal Complete, Next Up: Browser
MobyReed (357) on 10/15/2020 9:33 PM · Permalink · Report
Special thanks to Kayburt for making quick work of the V.Flash goal! We now all of its games listed, though still in need of credits, covers and screenshots to fill them out.
Next up, a big goal to reach 5,000 browser games. With an emphasis on games made in flash, as Adobe is deprecating that on December 31st. After that it'll be more difficult to document flash games as 3rd party plugins will need to be installed, and flash portals are more likely to shut down.
Recommended sources: Kongregate, Armor Games, Not Doppler. Newgrounds is also good, though they have their own plugin and less likely to disappear.
Thanks in advance to all contributors, and let's see how quickly we can get to 5k!
Alaka (106620) on 10/15/2020 11:08 PM · edited · Permalink · Report
Since the existence of the browser platform on this site we've only managed to have 3,000 games added to it, and this goal is to basically double this number? For a non-scrapable platform no less? Not that I'm against the ambition, but if you want to see this goal completed sometime in your lifetime I would advise adjusting the goal to a more realistic number.
Looking into it further we had about 3,000 browser games in 12 years which is around 250 games a year. So this is looking like an 8 year goal. Please reconsider this.
Pseudo_Intellectual (66423) on 10/16/2020 3:03 PM · Permalink · Report
Find a place that hosts any browser games and you can't swing a cat without hitting a few hundred of them. The only thing preventing us from adding them by the bucketload is focus and ambition.
Alaka (106620) on 10/16/2020 6:58 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Pseudo_Intellectual wrote--]Find a place that hosts any browser games and you can't swing a cat without hitting a few hundred of them. The only thing preventing us from adding them by the bucketload is focus and ambition. [/Q --end Pseudo_Intellectual wrote--]
Yes, the goal supplies the focus, but I still question the sites ambition to do this. Billions of these games and we only managed to cover a thimble of them over all these years?
Pseudo_Intellectual (66423) on 10/16/2020 7:27 PM · Permalink · Report
Granted, the scraping (and likelihood of being previously-existing in the database) does make a big difference.
MobyReed (357) on 10/23/2020 7:29 PM · Permalink · Report
Yeah, we'll see how it goes and adjust if needed - definitely don't want to be stuck on it for years!
We're going to add scraper support for the larger flash portals, and working on better tools that should help increase the rate of contributions generally.
MAT (240988) on 10/16/2020 3:53 AM · edited · Permalink · Report
To let broader audience participate there should be at least 3 goals going in parallel, one focusing on some old or obscure platform, one focusing on something newer accessible to everyone (i.e. browser or smartphone), and one could be for some console platform since that can be covered by PC users and players on a different platform simply by adding multi-platform games, so many people can contribute in sphere of their interest and ability.
Alaka (106620) on 10/16/2020 7:01 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start MAT wrote--]To let broader audience participate there should be at least 3 goals going in parallel, one focusing on some old or obscure platform, one focusing on something newer accessible to everyone (i.e. browser or smartphone), and one could be for some console platform since that can be covered by PC users and players on a different platform simply by adding multi-platform games, so many people can contribute in sphere of their interest and ability. [/Q --end MAT wrote--]
Multiple goals could be a viable solution. Maybe a short term and a long term goal running simultaneously.
firefang9212 (81837) on 10/16/2020 1:25 PM · Permalink · Report
Some additional info for those who feel like contributing to this goal:
Release dates for games on Not Doppler can be found in the Archive section, which features all of the daily new game announcements split up by month. The pages for 2005-2007 can be accessed using the Wayback Machine, though keep in mind that not all games released during that period were hosted on the site itself, rather they'd link to another site and as such would not count as valid releases.
For "Publishers" versus "Distributers", the site credited in the game itself (usually via an opening logo splash) is the publisher, while the site the game is hosted on is the distributer. Naturally certain games will have the same publisher and distributer. For example if a game features the FOG logo when you load it up, but it is hosted on Not Doppler, it will be credited as such:
Published by: FreeOnlineGames.com FZE
Distributed by: Not Doppler Pty Limited
wingi (4935) on 10/23/2020 5:44 PM · edited · Permalink · Report
Yes, I checked / imported 10 games from https://www.newgrounds.com/, but in the game / developer info are no fields to find if newgrounds.com is the first platform (publisher) or only the distributer. You have to check if one of the newgrounds.com people in credits is the publisher (with links on their sites).
Second only pseudonames are used - I cant get the correct names for the credits - only the newground pseudonym. How to handle with this?
So scaping this information is not possible...
Foxhack (32099) on 10/24/2020 12:27 AM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start wingi wrote--]Yes, I checked / imported 10 games from https://www.newgrounds.com/, but in the game / developer info are no fields to find if newgrounds.com is the first platform (publisher) or only the distributer. You have to check if one of the newgrounds.com people in credits is the publisher (with links on their sites).
Second only pseudonames are used - I cant get the correct names for the credits - only the newground pseudonym. How to handle with this?
So scaping this information is not possible... [/Q --end wingi wrote--]You can submit games with no developer info; if a person (or a pseudonym) self publishes a game, he doesn't get a company profile, regardless of platform.
Pseudonyms as developer profiles are allowed in specific circumstances. Like when someone is credited like that several games. Likegraphic artists who are only konwn by their pseudonym. Or you can enter game credits as entities, too.
Lampbane (22154) on 10/18/2020 10:32 PM · Permalink · Report
As someone who's submitted over 30 browser games in the past month, I see no problem with a rather ambitious goal (I'm pretty sure I can probably hit 100 by end of year, even if they're not all Flash). I'm more concerned about approvals for the platform, as I think it's just Sciere doing those now? Is he getting help?
wingi (4935) on 10/19/2020 9:13 AM · edited · Permalink · Report
Hmmm, I can easy scrape the domain newgrounds.com for all games with title, preview picture, url, votes, author, score, release, genre and the small description. This run will result in 120.000 game entries as an export file. Is this worth ?
If have to slow down the script (https://www.newgrounds.com/wiki/help-information/terms-of-use), but the robots.txt say Ok.
Foxhack (32099) on 10/19/2020 6:13 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start wingi wrote--]Hmmm, I can easy scrape the domain newgrounds.com for all games with title, preview picture, url, votes, author, score, release, genre and the small description. This run will result in 120.000 game entries as an export file. Is this worth ?
If have to slow down the script (https://www.newgrounds.com/wiki/help-information/terms-of-use), but the robots.txt say Ok. [/Q --end wingi wrote--]I got my ass permabanned from Sony's PS store for doing something similar. I would be careful. XD
That said there's a lot of non-game content in there, too.
firefang9212 (81837) on 10/29/2020 7:24 PM · Permalink · Report
I'm pretty sure the Flashpoint folks have already scraped Newgrounds themselves so it probably wouldn't be worth your time.
MAT (240988) on 10/19/2020 10:17 AM · Permalink · Report
Is this goal even being updated. I rarely note any update on the goal being done, this or the past ones. It is still at 0% yet it says "We need 1930 more Browser games documented to complete this goal!". It should show around 60% then, we continue on what was already there. Not updating the progress may also deter people from adding as it seems that site doesn't really care much for the goal.
Deleted (15789) on 10/20/2020 8:15 PM · Permalink · Report
While I understand that Flash will be dropped by 2021, what about Shockwave games? Is there any interest in titles that relied on this now deprecated technology?
I played quite a few Cartoon Network Shockwave titles back when I was a kid, but I only got around to adding one Courage The Cowardly Dog game :)
Lampbane (22154) on 10/20/2020 11:17 PM · edited · Permalink · Report
[Q --start geneklein wrote--]While I understand that Flash will be dropped by 2021, what about Shockwave games? Is there any interest in titles that relied on this now deprecated technology?
I played quite a few Cartoon Network Shockwave titles back when I was a kid, but I only got around to adding one Courage The Cowardly Dog game :) [/Q --end geneklein wrote--] Yes! If you can track down the relevant info we want to see all kinds of browser games, especially those that can no longer be played.
Victor Vance (18124) on 10/21/2020 9:03 PM · Permalink · Report
Yes everything is of importance here!
MAT (240988) on 10/23/2020 2:16 AM · Permalink · Report
Actually, if we're considering things that are to be dropped and inaccessible, we should try and add all the missing digital PSP / PSV / PS3 games from SEN store.
Once PS5 gets out they will remove all those platform and only leave PS4 and PS5 games. Older platforms' games will be accessible via the devices directly, but that won't let us get any missing covers because that would consist of capturing screens and trimming covers from those screen captures (something like I did for this DLC), so we only have a few weeks left to do this.
Foxhack (32099) on 10/24/2020 12:23 AM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start MAT wrote--]Actually, if we're considering things that are to be dropped and inaccessible, we should try and add all the missing digital PSP / PSV / PS3 games from SEN store.
Once PS5 gets out they will remove all those platform and only leave PS4 and PS5 games. Older platforms' games will be accessible via the devices directly, but that won't let us get any missing covers because that would consist of capturing screens and trimming covers from those screen captures (something like I did for this DLC), so we only have a few weeks left to do this. [/Q --end MAT wrote--]... I'm confused as to what store you're talking about.
The Playstation store flipped today worldwide. There's no more PSP / PSVita / 3 listings.
Cantillon (78586) on 10/25/2020 12:31 PM · Permalink · Report
Some interesting resources: Flash Game Archive and BlueMaxima's Flashpoint.
Flapco (46055) on 11/1/2020 8:02 PM · edited · Permalink · Report
In the past I added quite a few IriySoft games I used to play. There are however still a number missing. Sadly for some reason I can't get the flash player (SuperNova extension) working in my browser anymore.
But for those that are interested:
https://www.kongregate.com/games/iriysoft
https://www.mobygames.com/company/iriysoft
Update - I got it working: will do Road of Heroes and Sacred Treasure myself. leaving the rest for someone else
Mtik333 (29531) on 11/3/2020 10:22 PM · Permalink · Report
Maybe a small question from me: in description we have: "...games documented to complete this goal!"
What is the actual "meaning" of "documented"? Is it only about game being created here, does it need screenshots or something more to be considered as documented?
OmegaPC777 (8238) on 11/5/2020 6:30 PM · Permalink · Report
You know what? How about we archive some really old (Java plug-in) games from the 90's before Flash became popular! I think that would sound like a good idea.
Pseudo_Intellectual (66423) on 11/5/2020 7:19 PM · Permalink · Report
Be my guest!
wingi (4935) on 11/20/2020 8:47 AM · Permalink · Report
Ok,
we will have more time:
http://blog.archive.org/2020/11/19/flash-animations-live-forever-at-the-internet-archive/
Flash is working now with the internet archive.
Lampbane (22154) on 12/6/2020 9:29 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Minhoca wrote--]Lol, is the goal being uploaded too sparsely or are we actually that far from reaching it? We will lose! [/Q --end Minhoca wrote--] 6% isn't bad considering how slow going some goals have been in the past. I know a lot of my submissions were stuck in the queue, so I wouldn't be surprised if we've gotten a lot of infrequent and first-time contributors and their Browser submissions just haven't been addressed yet due to the extra work needed to approve them.