Forums > MobyGames > Certain entries could use much better screenshots

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Pectoris Fleo (102) on 4/6/2006 2:47 PM · Permalink · Report

Hi guys. This is my first post here and I’m excited to be a part of this awesome community.

I might need to see a doctor about my ill obsession with precision, but I am what I am, love me or hate me.

Anyway, let’s get down to business.

I love taking screenshots of beautiful, beautiful games, and I like to think of myself as an in-game photographer, photo correspondent, whatever. ^-^ I’ve made contributions to numerous other high-profile sites. Whenever I make screenshots, it’s very important for me to try to capture cute moments that would make people who see them WANT to play the game. In rare cases, when I’m extremely disappointed with a game, I would do the opposite of that and capture flaws to expose weaknesses. One way or the other shots must be crystal clear and display something interesting whenever possible. This may not be a big deal to those who don’t share this little passion of mine, but I personally feel very strong about people who do it just for the checkmark; about people who don't even bother to tweak the settings for acquiring the image correctly, especially when it’s not very hard. For instance, I believe that the JPEG format should only be used for snapshots of games on the recent systems (mainly 3D games). When I see those ugly blocky JPEG compression artifacts on screenshots of 2D games with delicately pixel-pushed graphics (that would require no more than 256 colours) it makes my sensitive eyes vomit with disgust! How those shots received approval from the seemingly strict staff of a seemingly high-standard site is a mystery to me. :-\ Are those shots stuck there forever now?

To make matters worse, some shots don’t even have correct resolu... Argh, that makes me wana gauge my eyes out. (talks to himself: Calm down, you’ll se a doctor, everything is gona be jaaaaast fine.)

In short, here’s an example of how to do it (nice): http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/2640/do5jw.png

Another practice that I think should be avoided is taking numerous shots of that very same first level over and over again showing that same environment over and over again. Come on, guys, how interesting can that be? Let’s not rush it. Do it sometime when you feel like playing through the game. Give the visual variety a chance.

If resubmissions with superior shots are welcome, I'll gladly fix some of them.

Thank you. (Phew, it felt great to get that out of my system).

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Sciere (930964) on 4/6/2006 2:57 PM · Permalink · Report

The guidelines have been tightened during the years. We're now strict on file types and resolutions. There are indeed some screenshots that could use a replacement. However, for certain platforms, we do consider TV-captured shots with a non-standard resolution equally good as a emulated shots, because the original colour palette is maintained that way, even at the cost of a certain crispness.

If a set of screenshot lacks originality, it can always be replaced with decent argumentation.

Enjoy your stay!

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Ajan (262) on 4/6/2006 11:52 PM · Permalink · Report

[Q --start Pectoris Fleo wrote--]Whenever I make screenshots, it’s very important for me to try to capture cute moments that would make people who see them WANT to play the game. In rare cases, when I’m extremely disappointed with a game, I would do the opposite of that and capture flaws to expose weaknesses. [/Q --end Pectoris Fleo wrote--] You are right, screenshots should be balanced, I mean if there is a place with beautiful views, contributors shouldn't make scrrens only of that place. They may look nice but don't give any clues on how the whole game looks like. In other words: imho from 30 screenshots there should be several boring ones to show the game in normal play. Showing interesting and funny places is crucial but I doubt that there is a single game which is extremly interesting all the time. Screens should thus show all elements of the game including those which are boting.

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nullnullnull (1463) on 4/7/2006 12:07 AM · Permalink · Report

Awesome. Welcome aboard. When submitting shots just put in the comments which shots should be replaced.

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Aaron A. (39) on 4/7/2006 1:33 AM · Permalink · Report

An interesting, but far off idea (because of bandwidth issues), it would be cool to see in-game play videos, to show all the sides of game play. Doub't that'll ever happen though :(.

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Corn Popper (69019) on 4/7/2006 5:04 AM · Permalink · Report

it's a possibilty we have touched on so don't discount it

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Freeman (65146) on 4/7/2006 7:39 AM · Permalink · Report

Nice post, and welcome to the site. I agree with much of what you say; I hate looking up pictures of a game only to find the majority from the 1st level / menu screen / copyright screen, etc.

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h'mik (228) on 4/7/2006 9:41 AM · Permalink · Report

Yeah, come to think about it I did that a couple of times and didn't enjoy it very much. I mean, if I happen to have the game, but don't like it and don't feel like playing it... (of course you can always use cheats to get to other levels but you won't know if you captured the best shots). On the other hand, if you have the game and others don't, it's better if you post at least two or three images from the first level for documentation. If anyone has some better replacements or other screenshots to add, that shouldn't be a problem.

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Unicorn Lynx (181769) on 4/7/2006 10:31 AM · Permalink · Report

Most games with screenshots taken only from the beginning of the game don't have many screenshots. There's nothing wrong in submitting 5-6 screenshots from the opening location, as long as there is some other variety in them. Feel free to add more screenshots to such entries, the ideal would be of course to have 30 screenshots per game :)

As for wrong resolutions, it seems that capturing shots directly from consoles is pretty hard (I haven't figured out how to do it, anyway), so I think that any shot taken directly from console is a welcome addition to the site, even if its resolution is slightly different or something. Emulator screenshots is also a tricky business, sometimes you can end up with wrong resolution (unless the emulator has a built-in screenshot capture utility, which is a great thing). Such screenshots can be replaced if you submit some that show the same picture, but with a more correct resolution. .

BTW, I think original contributors should retain their points even if their screenshots get replaced. Now the policy is stricter, but before screenshots got approved almost regardless of the resolution. It's not the contributor's fault that the guidelines were different. There are a lot of shots from old DOS games with weird resolutions or in JPG format around here, I suppose they will be replaced some day, but I think it would be unfair to take points away from the contributors.

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Pectoris Fleo (102) on 4/8/2006 4:19 AM · edited · Permalink · Report

[EDIT] (I made a mistake, sorry. My real reply is below, right after wildkard's post)

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Shoddyan (15006) on 4/8/2006 1:21 AM · edited · Permalink · Report

Edit: Unicorn-Lynx and Ajan already explained the points mentioned below, and much shorter. Oops.

[Q --start Pectoris Fleo wrote--] Another practice that I think should be avoided is taking numerous shots of that very same first level over and over again showing that same environment over and over again. Come on, guys, how interesting can that be? Let’s not rush it. Do it sometime when you feel like playing through the game. Give the visual variety a chance. [/Q --end Pectoris Fleo wrote--]

Agreed. Ideally our screenshots should display as many different aspects of a game as possible. What that means is that as much of the work that can be shown: Different levels, different characters, different attacks, different gameplay, etc... there's usually a whole lot that goes into a game and to get a better overall sense of the whole thing, we want to a whole bunch of different parts, and not the "first level" as you say. I'm not sure if that's clearly stated in the guidelines, but regardless, if anyone feels that a screenshot is only focusing on thing and isn't equally representing the whole: The best solution is to submit more screenshots. Approvers can look them over and replace redundant shots.

[Q --start Pectoris Fleo wrote--]I love taking screenshots of beautiful, beautiful games, and I like to think of myself as an in-game photographer, photo correspondent, whatever. ^-^ I’ve made contributions to numerous other high-profile sites. Whenever I make screenshots, it’s very important for me to try to capture cute moments that would make people who see them WANT to play the game. In rare cases, when I’m extremely disappointed with a game, I would do the opposite of that and capture flaws to expose weaknesses. One way or the other shots must be crystal clear and display something interesting whenever possible.[/Q --end Pectoris Fleo wrote--]

I agree with you, BUT... if there is mundane within a game that should also be reflected. Not every screenshot, but certainly one or two. shrug In any case it's not going to be that big a deal since if a game doesn't have any diverse screenshots, it won't have any... or something. Kudos on taking beautiful screenshots of games, but not every scene should be a pretty shot of the scenery since there's usually a game that's trying to be represented also. I know that you don't do that...I'm just saying. For instance, I have some lovely JPEGs of Morrowind's moons that I took while playing. I'm still amazed by them, but there's really nothing they would add to anyone's concept of the game if I posted them to MG... there's already pretty images of trees and Ogres and etc. Maybe a fansite would like them ;)

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Pectoris Fleo (102) on 4/8/2006 4:22 AM · edited · Permalink · Report

Wow, thanks for your responses, guys! Thank you for being so open. Sorry for this long-a** novel you’re about to read (or not), but I feel I have something to share here.

@ U N I C O R N L Y N X [Q --start Unicorn Lynx wrote--]As for wrong resolutions, it seems that capturing shots directly from consoles is pretty hard (I haven't figured out how to do it, anyway), so I think that any shot taken directly from console is a welcome addition to the site, even if its resolution is slightly different or something. [/Q --end Unicorn Lynx wrote--] You know, I’m glad you mentioned that. For capturing unemulated Dreamcast games, I considered, well, actually tried the two methods that I have at my disposal:

Method A: Basically you hook the console to a DVD recorder-> Put the DVD with the newly recorded gameplay footage into computer’s DVD drive-> Save any desired frame to image file. Why I abandoned it? Well, needless to say is that the MPEG Layer 2 format that DVD movies are written to employs the same old lossy cosine reduction algorithm that JPEG does, so… until I visit the Doctor (never), this method is out for me.

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Pectoris Fleo (102) on 4/8/2006 4:23 AM · edited · Permalink · Report

(CONTINUED) Method B: The second logical approach was using a capture card, of course. The not-so-fancy one that came with my HP Pavilion PC has the composite input and the S-Video input (which I have yet to try). The problem is that the picture coming through the composite analog input is rather blurry. The effect would remind you of bilinear downsampling. In other words, the precious pixel art is, again, devastated – for shame. Plus, despite the fact that it’s a direct hook-up, the image does feature small amounts of that colorful noise. (It’s analog after all).

I’m considering getting the S-Video cable because I’ve been told that the “Street Fighter III: Double Impact” (unemulated) shots taken for assembling the background shown in this MUGEN shot: http://randomselect.i-xcell.com/stages_sf/sf3_2_images/fuji.png involved the use of some third party S-Video cable. As you can see, it looks pretty clean. The best possible option though seems to be the RGB cable, but I have to do some research on that to see if any additional adapters would be needed. I hope my fear of an ultra-pricy capture card being an unfortunate necessity is not justified in the end. LOL.

[Q --start Unicorn Lynx wrote--]Emulator screenshots is also a tricky business, sometimes you can end up with wrong resolution (unless the emulator has a built-in screenshot capture utility, which is a great thing).[/Q --end Unicorn Lynx wrote--] Aha!!! That’s where the skill comes in, my friend! Believe it or not, you can not ALWAYS rely on the built-in screenshot feature either.

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Pectoris Fleo (102) on 4/8/2006 4:24 AM · edited · Permalink · Report

(CONTINUED) PSX emulation, for one, is a case of that, sadly. This is where you have to figure out the resolution yourself. How? Here are two examples of how I did it:

A: Guilty Gear (Playstaion) The shots will come out wrong if taken in default resolution. What do we do? We use all of our technical knowledge of video games and some analytical thinking. First, I tried many popular arcade resolutions listed in MAME that seemed likely, but couldn’t find the right one. Then, I recalled that the team that developed Guilty Gear also did some Neo Geo work in the past. So I tried Neo Geo’s 320x224 and – VOILA!!! Now, zoom in all you want and you’ll see that the shots are absolutely PIXEL-PEFECT! ;-) http://www.mobygames.com/game/playstation/guilty-gear/screenshots

B. Street Fighter III – Third Strike: Fight for the Future. (Dreamcast) We all know that this game was ported from Capcom’s CPS III arcade hardware, which is a successor of their CPS II hardware, which uses the traditional 384X224 resolution (fact). We now capture the shots in Chankast at the default 640X480. Then we open them in any image editing app that can resize images using the “nearest neighbor” sampling principle – this is VERY IMPORTANT. If you scale it down using bicubic, or bilinear filtering, not only will it ruin the image by blurring it, but will also add needless junk colors to the palette rendering all you previous steps pointless. I did it correctly, and look at em – perfect again! http://www.mobygames.com/game/street-fighter-iii-3rd-strike-fight-for-the-future/screenshots The problem however is that not everybody is willing to go through the trouble. :-(

@ W I L D C A R D , A J A N. Yeah, I think you guys are right; it only makes sense to make unbiased and adequate set of screenshots.

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Trixter (8954) on 4/17/2006 2:55 AM · Permalink · Report

Q --start Pectoris Fleo wrote-- Method B: The second logical approach was using a capture card, of course. The not-so-fancy one that came with my HP Pavilion PC has the composite input and the S-Video input (which I have yet to try). The problem is that the picture coming through the composite analog input is rather blurry. The effect would remind you of bilinear downsampling. In other words, the precious pixel art is, again, devastated – for shame. Plus, despite the fact that it’s a direct hook-up, the image does feature small amounts of that colorful noise. (It’s analog after all). [/Q --end Pectoris Fleo wrote--]

Most definitely use the s-video input; all the blur and color fringing will be gone. The Soul Caliber Dreamcast shots I submitted were done using this technique.

I'm glad to meet another screenshot fanatic :-) I went so far as to author the California Games PC "more-color mode" shots, since I think people need to see what it looks like, yet can never be captured because of the mode tweak.

Servo is another one, if you want to check his shots.

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Zovni (10504) on 4/17/2006 11:10 PM · Permalink · Report

[Q --start Pectoris Fleo wrote--] I’m considering getting the S-Video cable because I’ve been told that the “Street Fighter III: Double Impact” (unemulated) shots taken for assembling the background shown in this MUGEN shot: http://randomselect.i-xcell.com/stages_sf/sf3_2_images/fuji.png involved the use of some third party S-Video cable. As you can see, it looks pretty clean. The best possible option though seems to be the RGB cable, but I have to do some research on that to see if any additional adapters would be needed. I hope my fear of an ultra-pricy capture card being an unfortunate necessity is not justified in the end. LOL. [/Q --end Pectoris Fleo wrote--]

S-Video separates the chroma and luminance signals thus preventing color bleeding and "crosstalk" which is the main cause of most composite video distortions. As for capturing rgb/component video forget it. The hardware needed for that is beyond the semi-pro realm of S-video, we are talking Avid DNA's , Blackmagic boards and other, more esoteric hardware. Not to mention that handling uncompressed, 1:1 video is a task that requires disk arrays... you would just be taking snapshots of the videos so you don't really need them to play in realtime but still... I know Avid doesn't let you switch to 1:1 unless it detects an array.... Anyway, that's a whole lotta money to spend just to take some screenshots.

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Trixter (8954) on 5/17/2006 3:31 PM · Permalink · Report

[Q --start Zovni wrote--]

As for capturing rgb/component video forget it. The hardware needed for that is beyond the semi-pro realm of S-video, we are talking Avid DNA's , Blackmagic boards and other, more esoteric hardware. Not to mention that handling uncompressed, 1:1 video is a task that requires disk arrays... you would just be taking snapshots of the videos so you don't really need them to play in realtime but still... Anyway, that's a whole lotta money to spend just to take some screenshots. [/Q --end Zovni wrote--]

Agreed, but I was able to do it for $250 for an RGB Spectrum Videolink scan converter and $500 for a Blackmagic Design DeckLink SP card. While this setup is currently being used for a DVD, when that project is finished you can be sure it will be used for screenshots :-)

It is a bit prohibitive, I agree. Y/C (s-video) is great for most needs. The only problem Y/C has is a tiny tiny level of noise, which can be eliminated if you have the ability to capture a paused screen: Capture 1 full second of the paused screen, then average all 25 or 30 frames together.