Forums > MobyGames > Gameplay Feature: Pickpocketing
Indra was here (20752) on 12/4/2014 6:03 AM · edited · Permalink · Report
Here's an easy one, before the sudden voices in my head disappear:
Gameplay Feature: Pickpocketing
Games where the player's character or individual player-controlled party members may optionally attempt to steal items from non-player characters (NPCs); an activity known as pickpocketing, which if the attempt successful will result in items or money.
Limitations
- Please refer to the traditional understanding of pickpocketing, where the attempt is to steal objects from an unaware victim's pockets or equivalent container. Thus, non-traditional equivalents of pickpocketing should be excluded from this game group, such as stealing magical energy, stealing alchemic byproducts from monsters (e.g. stealing a strand of hair from living minotaur), unless examples of the traditional understanding of pickpocketing still applies (e.g. stealing gold from a wandering traveller without him/her knowing).
- Not to be confused with robbing a victim, where the victim is made aware of the attempt to requilish objects in his/her possession beforehand.
- Games where pickpocketing is only part of a plot, theme, or story and not an optionally accessible player activity should be excluded from this game group.
Examples: Don't remember. :p
Rwolf (23086) on 12/4/2014 8:02 PM · edited · Permalink · Report
Example: 'Dragon Age: Origins' - in which my Dwarf rogue (currently very successfully) steals whatever pocket change can be had from every single NPC, including poor refugees & sisters/nuns, in order to get enough money to buy much needed supplies for the team of allies.
When I can do it during battle, I'll make sure all the Darkspawn dies as paupers too...
edit:
What I see from the Wikia, all versions of Fallout also have the stealing / pickpocketing options, though the success/fail check is implemented in different forms.
Starbuck the Third (22602) on 12/4/2014 8:54 PM · Permalink · Report
submitted.
Unicorn Lynx (181769) on 12/5/2014 2:28 AM · Permalink · Report
Yup, pickpocketing is ubiquitous in RPGs. The group will have thousands of games.
Indra was here (20752) on 12/5/2014 3:09 AM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start chirinea wrote--]So, basically you're asking for most D&D games to get added there. [/Q --end chirinea wrote--] Many early D&D games (e.g. Gold Box series) didn't really have pickpocketing and when it did, it was usually story-based (excluded). Only later did it become a more prominent feature in the late 90s.
piltdown_man (242406) on 12/5/2014 7:38 AM · Permalink · Report
Looking for examples, How about the Thief Series? This was the first game I played where picking pockets was an option.
When considering games for inclusion in this group would the Thief Booster Pack Bundle count?
Rola (8482) on 12/5/2014 9:24 AM · Permalink · Report
While I snickered about Indra's previous batch of under-researched groups (was that a hundred?), this one is OK, while a bit common.
I'd really like to see more people using those groups to tag those RPGs. Recently I was asking questions at other forums just to have more pairs of eyes checking games.
Indra was here (20752) on 12/5/2014 9:43 AM · edited · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Rola wrote--]While I snickered about Indra's previous batch of under-researched groups (was that a hundred?), this one is OK, while a bit common. [/Q --end Rola wrote--] Oh, they've all been researched. No one asked for a description though. Example fix. Note: it's not what you had hoped for, mind you.
Indra was here (20752) on 12/5/2014 2:08 PM · edited · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Kabushi wrote--]We should really have a Protagonist: Thief group too. [/Q --end Kabushi wrote--]It's not one of my priorities due to protagonists game groups having an annoying habit of being in conflict with theme game groups (that and protagonist game groups having different standards). Anyways, here's my three second description out of nowhere:
Protagonist: Thief
This game group identifies games where the player-controlled main character or protagonist is a burglar, thief, robber, venture capitalist cough, or any equivalent role of an individual whose primary profession is to steal items and/or money from non-player character(s).
Said profession or role may come with a set of relevant skills, some traditionally related to real-life thievery, while others completely unique to the video gaming culture, among others: backstabbing, hide in shadows, pickpocketing, lockpicking, stealth, sweet talk, etc.
Limitations
- Games where the player may select or choose from multiple classes, of which one or more of them are thievery-related professions/roles or offer multiclass options, should be excluded from this game group. Except under the circumstance where all the selections are thievery-related professions or roles.
- Be advised that some games may be ambiguous on the actual profession/role or said profession/role could be interpreted differently than being more than just a thief-related profession or role. Hence, games where the protagonist may also if not more, be identified as an assassin, ninja, etc., or any ambiguity where stealing items may not be the primary profession or role should be excluded from this game group.
Indra was here (20752) on 12/10/2014 4:33 PM · edited · Permalink · Report
This one is a bit tricky, but it's a somewhat fascinating gameplay feature, at least for me. This may require constant tweaking for a lot of unknown variables.
Gameplay Feature: NPC Relations / Reputation
Games where a personal relations or reputation meter exists between the player's character or a player-controlled party with every non-player character (NPC) in the game. We repeat: every NPC in the game.
For the purposes of this game group, a non-player character shall includes individual characters, as well as an extended scope to include individual locations such as towns, villages, and its equivalent. Said NPCs will also have an identifier such as a unique name or title, to distinguish itself from other NPCs e.g. Lord MobyGames; town of MobyGames, etc.
It needs to be made explicitly clear than having a relationship status with only a few NPCs within a game is not enough to qualify for this game group. Although a relationship status with all NPCs would be ideal, any game where the player has a relationship statues with a majority of individual NPCs, say at least 70-80% of all NPCs would be sufficient to qualify.
A positive or negative relation or reputation with NPCs may to a certain extent affect the player and interactions with said NPC. Good relations will usually result in better interactions beneficial to the player, for example:
- Adventure games: Characters may offer additional dialogs, easier access to hints.
- Role-playing games: Characters may offer additional quests, lower prices, and more options for weapons and armor.
- Simulation games: Stations may offer additional vehicles, lower prices, and more options for upgrading vehicles.
While negative relations or reputation will result in the opposite of the examples above, sometimes to the point where the NPC may engage in open hostility against the player.
Relations or reputation may come in the form of a numerical statistic or a graphical bar of positive vs. negative, friendly vs. hostile, honorable vs. dishonorable, and other variations. It should be made clear that relations or reputation will change either instantly or gradually depending on the player's in-game actions.
Limitations
- Strategy games should be excluded from this game group, unless it has multiple genres e.g. primary an adventure or RPG game with strategy as a supporting sub-genre.
Examples:
- Darklands
- Fables: Lost Chapters
- Elder Scrolls Oblivion and Skyrim (er, I think)
Victor Vance (18118) on 12/10/2014 8:15 PM · edited · Permalink · Report
Grand Theft Auto IV and it´s DLC´s. There you have to "manage" your friendships. The more time you spent with them the more improves your relationship resulting in several advantages (you can call Packie for a car bomb for example). Is this what you mean?
BTW I am not sure if Grand Theft Auto V does qualify. Does spending time with your friends affect your relationship statistics there? Are there even relationship statistics (maybe internal)?
Pseudo_Intellectual (66423) on 12/11/2014 1:12 AM · Permalink · Report
Ultima VI? Lord British is deeply unimpressed if you cast the Armageddon spell.
piltdown_man (242406) on 12/13/2014 9:14 AM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Indra is here wrote--]
It should be made clear that relations or reputation will change either instantly or gradually depending on the player's in-game actions.
[/Q --end Indra is here wrote--]
When you say 'it should be made clear' do you mean that within the game it will say something like 'doing this will make that faction dislike you' or do you mean that something on the game's packaging will say 'multiple endings and possibilities depending upon how you treat people within the game'?
I'm thinking about the dating sims where the whole game is about relationships and making choices but the effect of improving your reputation is more subtle and not immediately obvious
Indra was here (20752) on 12/13/2014 4:30 PM · edited · Permalink · Report
[Q --start piltdown_man wrote--] [Q2 --start Indra is here wrote--] It should be made clear that relations or reputation will change either instantly or gradually depending on the player's in-game actions. [/Q2 --end Indra is here wrote--] When you say 'it should be made clear' do you mean that within the game it will say something like 'doing this will make that faction dislike you' or do you mean that something on the game's packaging will say 'multiple endings and possibilities depending upon how you treat people within the game'?
I'm thinking about the dating sims where the whole game is about relationships and making choices but the effect of improving your reputation is more subtle and not immediately obvious [/Q --end piltdown_man wrote--] Thanks for the input guys. Looks like it still needs more work done. Haven't played GTA IV either. -_-
Basically, what I'm trying to do here is identify games where you have a relationship bar with every, if not a significant amount of NPCs in the game. There are a few, not many games with this feature. So, no Pseudo, the Ultimas don't qualify.
<hr />Actually there are some games where the relationship gauge doesn't change or in most case, it's story-based relationships, not player-based actions. So nothing related to end-game possibilities. In regards to relationship notification, it could be explicit or you have to manually check said NPCs relationship bar, to see if it goes down after you whack a club at him. Yes, Sims is one good example game.
Let me know the sentences there are ambiguous in interpretation.
Here's one example screenshot:
Игги Друге (46653) on 12/18/2014 8:47 PM · edited · Permalink · Report
It may not be obvious, but you do have a reputation in Frontier: Elite II, not only as seen in your elite ranking, but also an invisible one influenced by how many missions you carry out on time or if you lie about having seen missing persons. You also have a criminal record.
Indra was here (20752) on 12/19/2014 7:10 AM · edited · Permalink · Report
Added/tweaked to the existing description:
For the purposes of this game group, a non-player character shall includes individual characters, as well as an extended scope to include individual locations such as towns, villages, and its equivalent. Said NPCs will also have an identifier such as a unique name or title, to distinguish itself from other NPCs e.g. Lord MobyGames; town of MobyGames, etc.
It needs to be made explicitly clear than having a relationship status with only a few NPCs within a game is not enough to qualify for this game group. Although a relationship status with all NPCs would be ideal, any game where the player has a relationship statues with a majority of individual NPCs, say at least 70-80% of all NPCs would be sufficient to qualify.
<hr />[replaced]
Strategy games should be excluded from this game group, unless it has multiple genres e.g. primary an adventure or RPG game with strategy as a supporting sub-genre.
<hr />Too hardcore?
Rola (8482) on 12/19/2014 9:42 AM · edited · Permalink · Report
I say lets include factions. If you allow "town reputation", faction is simply location-independent version of this.
After all your group is clearly about RPGs and not, say, strategy games.
Reputation stats are often hidden, but that shouldn't be the reason to exclude such game.
Indra was here (20752) on 12/19/2014 11:18 AM · edited · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Rola wrote--][1] I say lets include factions. If you allow "town reputation", faction is simply location-independent version of this.
After all your group is clearly about RPGs and not, say, strategy games.
[2] Reputation stats are often hidden, but that shouldn't be the reason to exclude such game. [/Q --end Rola wrote--] Erhm. Well, yes. Since the strategy games tend to not have NPCs in them, unless they're an RPG hybrid. Haven't found a strategy-unique game that has a relationship bar that is independent from diplomacy features. Updating description.
[2] Hidden? Then how exactly does one prove to the approver that said game has a reputation feature?
Игги Друге (46653) on 12/19/2014 3:10 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Indra is here wrote--] [2] Hidden? Then how exactly does one prove to the approver that said game has a reputation feature? [/Q --end Indra is here wrote--] Prove? The approval system is about leaving an audit trail, not proof. Proof is for the court.
Indra was here (20752) on 12/19/2014 3:31 PM · Permalink · Report
It's time to take your medication again, Iggy.
Rola (8482) on 12/19/2014 11:10 PM · Permalink · Report
I had a hard time completing one mission in certain RTS, so I've consulted a wiki. That's how I learned that the enemy had resource injections and other "unfair" scripted bonuses, what was discovered through extensive testing or even peeking into game code.
This wasn't something the game/manual admitted to.
Indra was here (20752) on 12/20/2014 11:59 AM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Rola wrote--]I had a hard time completing one mission in certain RTS, so I've consulted a wiki. That's how I learned that the enemy had resource injections and other "unfair" scripted bonuses, what was discovered through extensive testing or even peeking into game code.
This wasn't something the game/manual admitted to. [/Q --end Rola wrote--] If it's hidden, it's not really a gameplay feature i.e. not a feature explicit to player manipulation. It's just another example of game developers being annoying. :p
Rola (8482) on 12/20/2014 1:43 PM · edited · Permalink · Report
So you demand that all those "dating simulators" ^_^ to feature detailed gauges of what the girl is thinking? Because if you can't see numbers clearly - it doesn't exist?
If the game FAQ says "don't attack cultist ships too early, because if you blast enough of them they will start sending patrols to get you" it isn't a proof to you that the game has a variable governing player's stance with this faction?
Wing Commander: Privateer comes to mind?
http://www.wcnews.com/chatzone/threads/are-there-numbers-for-privateer-faction-relations.24291/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wing_Commander:_Privateer
See? I'm not saying we allow guesswork. But there are cases where game guides/modders explain in detail game mechanics hidden under-the-hood and not displayed clearly - this doesn't mean said mechanics don't play a major role in the gameplay.
Indra was here (20752) on 12/20/2014 2:18 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Rola wrote--][1] So you demand that all those "dating simulators" ^_^ to feature detailed gauges of what the girl is thinking? Because if you can't see numbers clearly - it doesn't exist?
[2] If the game FAQ says "don't attack cultist ships too early, because if you blast enough of them they will start sending patrols to get you" it isn't a proof to you that the game has a variable governing player's stance with this faction?
See? I'm not saying we allow guesswork. But there are cases where game guides/modders explain in detail game mechanics hidden under-the-hood and not displayed clearly - this doesn't mean said mechanics don't play a major role in the gameplay. [/Q --end Rola wrote--] [1] Yes. Well, considering most dating sims technically are story-based relationships, they're excluded anyways.
[2] Sounds more like a matter of AI than it is a relationship feature. Hell, many strategy games don't even require you attack them. Just let the enemy faction spot you once and they start sending in their troops. More or less it's the default rule of engagement for most space simulation games also.
Now if individual troop units / ships had a relationship status with the player, that's definitely something worth mentioning.
I'd be inclined to create a relationship status for factions only, though the only problem is, it's technically redundant. What strategy-oriented game doesn't have a relationship status based on the example you gave above anyways? It's just part of the AI. Not a gameplay feature.
Fred VT (25949) on 12/20/2014 2:46 PM · Permalink · Report
Worth adding to this group would be http://www.mobygames.com/game/conception-ii-children-of-the-seven-stars
The relationship between the protagonist and the seven girls has a gauge and mood icon showing how well they get along. It affects the strength of new units created with said girl, and the possibility of getting twin units.
Rola (8482) on 12/20/2014 4:12 PM · Permalink · Report
I'm tired with trying to correct your misconceptions when it comes to group creation.
This group was clearly invented with RPGs (and anything related) in mind, not strategy games. Most strategy games have canned relations anyway. Rarely you have stuff as in Age of Wonders where you can placate even enemy races with benevolent acts.
If you say that Privateer doesn't belong here I'm going to ignore this group. Because you start with Kilrathi attacking you on sight - and only through attacking Confeds and rescuing ejected Kilrathi pilots you can slowly make them tolerating you. No scripted story choices here, no canned "hostile/ally" AI, while you can join Mercenary Guild there is no "Kilrathi guild" here. If this isn't interactive reputation then darn you.
Indra was here (20752) on 12/20/2014 4:44 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Rola wrote--]I'm tired with trying to correct your misconceptions when it comes to group creation. [/Q --end Rola wrote--]All you have to do is read that first paragraph to figure out the intention of this game group.
If it makes you happier, would the name Gameplay Feature: NPC Reputation / Relationship be to your liking? Since clearly using the term NPC in the description isn't enough.
Indra was here (20752) on 12/20/2014 9:32 PM · edited · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Rola wrote--]Oh, so it's only about NPC now? Define NPC then. You do know you can talk to those pilots? And taunt neutral ones to the point they attack you? I did read your stuff. Did you read that forum link I gave? [/Q --end Rola wrote--] Define? Second paragraph. It's all there. I mean really, it's all there. Just re-read the original post.
Faction relations in space simulation games barely qualifies. Basically, if there's 6 factions there's just 6 relationship bars. Compare that to the type of games I'm talking where it's it's about 100+ individual relationship bars vs. 6. Doesn't matter if you can talk to each individual pilot, their relationship status is not unique to said pilot, but to the faction.
S.T.A.L.K.E.R. however, you have relationships with factions, additionally you have a relationship status with unique NPCs of most factions, which initially is based on the faction relationship. Shoot a stalker from one faction, the faction may slightly decrease relations (from green -> yellow --> red), but the dude you shot at will become hostile. Though if dude falls down injured and you give him a medikit, he'll become neutral again, but the relation with the faction remains unchanged. Still not sure whether or not S.T.A.L.K.E.R. should be included as some NPCs are always hostile while the options to better relations with other NPCs are almost non-existent. See? Now this is a problem example. Wing Commander? Not so much.
Try playing X3. That game series makes the relationships in previous space simulation games look pretty docile. Still not part of this proposed game group.
Rola (8482) on 12/20/2014 10:32 PM · Permalink · Report
I'm saying maybe you should broaden your definition a little bit. Because if you absolutely must find games like on that screenshot, with a list of people and explicit numerical rating, then you won't find many.
My vision was listing games with interactive reputation. I wonder what others think about our views on this group.
Indra was here (20752) on 12/20/2014 11:10 PM · edited · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Rola wrote--]I'm saying maybe you should broaden your definition a little bit. Because if you absolutely must find games like on that screenshot, with a list of people and explicit numerical rating, then you won't find many.
My vision was listing games with interactive reputation. I wonder what others think about our views on this group. [/Q --end Rola wrote--] I don't mind either way. I just have a habit of creating descriptions to describe what I'm proposing. I have a rule of thumb in creating game groups: make it as narrow as possible, if the variables are too many and too many possible conflict with games. It's easier to fix to later include games than it is to exclude them.
It's also helpful for hardcore gamers who have particular gameplay fetishes who prefer not to lump stuff everything in. Though this may be uniquely an Asian gamer thing.
For example, the variables related to relationship/reputation that give me headaches:
- Only exist with party members.
- Faction only reputation settings.
- Non-changeable relations/reputation with NPCs.
- Story-based or dialog reputation/relationships settings.
- Hidden or non-explicit relationship settings.
- Limited player interaction/options to change relationship status.
- We already have a dating sim game group.
- We already have a nobility title game group. Will create a military title game group and a medal game group. Also somewhat related to reputation/relations.
- We already have a multiple ending game group.
- Reputation/relationship that only have narrow settings e.g. good, neutral, hostile.
- Whether or not reputation should be separated with relationship settings. Argh.
Basically, if you want to see how broad this game group could be, just read TV Tropes: Relationship Values and TV: Tropes: Aliance Meter. Migraine.
Yeah, I think I'll rename this to Gameplay Feature: NPC Relationship / Reputation and see this game group be ignored indefinitely. goes off and writes up another game group
Alex Z (1856) on 12/15/2014 1:21 AM · Permalink · Report
Re: Pickpocketing - are games in the Gothic series (where "pickpocketing" is a skill but is only used through dialogue options, with no extra animations) apply? Even though the game is an action-RPG and pickpocketing acts just like a dialogue option?