Forums > MobyGames > New platform
Kabushi (261374) on 7/14/2014 10:47 AM · Permalink · Report
Today I've added Memotech MTX to the site, one of many British 8-bit computers that never got very far. Still it has its fair share of games, both orginals (including a few from Chris Sawyer of Rollercoaster Tycoon fame) and ports like Manic Miner. A list of games for it can be found here.
I'm going to keep adding more platforms over the coming weeks so give suggestions on what you want to see next. I'm going to prioritize platforms that people actually intend to submit for and I don't want to see any more empty ones.
Игги Друге (46653) on 7/14/2014 11:45 AM · edited · Permalink · Report
Hooray!
You can add me as approver to those platforms.
Unicorn Lynx (181769) on 7/14/2014 4:09 PM · Permalink · Report
How about completing the Japanese computer line-up? We are missing PC-6001 and a few other older ones. Iggy can surely tell you more. I hope I'll have time to add a few games for those.
Игги Друге (46653) on 7/14/2014 5:58 PM · Permalink · Report
The contours of the Japanese homecomputers are so fuzzy they give me a headache, and each time I've researched it, the information has been buried in the forum or in our defunct wiki.
Kabushi (261374) on 7/15/2014 7:48 AM · Permalink · Report
If we start with the NEC line - how many platforms do we have?
- PC-60 (including the American NEC TREK)
- PC-80
- Any more? (excluding their portable computers which we might want to wait with)
I'd like to do the Sharp MZ series too but I think that is more complicated, right?
Игги Друге (46653) on 7/17/2014 12:24 PM · Permalink · Report
The APC III is just a PC-98.
Игги Друге (46653) on 7/17/2014 12:42 PM · Permalink · Report
All right, I looked at the specs again. We can safely add the PC-6001 and count the PC-6601 as part of the series. The difference is in the floppy drives.
Minimum machine: PC-6001, PC-6001 Mk II/PC-6601, PC-6001 Mk II SR/PC-6601 SR
Media: Cassette, 3,5" floppy, 5,25" floppy, cartridge
Sound: Beeper, FM
Input: Joystick, keyboard
Other: Kanji ROM
The original PC-6001 has a resolution of 256x192 (same graphics chip as Dragon 32 and Tandy CoCo), all later models have a base resolution of 320x200, SR models also have a high resolution of 640x200.
Pseudo_Intellectual (66423) on 7/15/2014 4:37 AM · Permalink · Report
I had good luck suggesting OS/2 last time, so maybe I'll try to round out our PC OS coverage and propose CP/M?
Rola (8482) on 7/15/2014 2:38 PM · edited · Permalink · Report
ahem... We have yet to come to a conclusion regarding mainframes...
Simon Carless (1834) on 7/16/2014 5:20 AM · Permalink · Report
Massive thanks to Kabushi for taking the initiative here :)
Re: mainframes, I'm onboard, we just need to have a good set of tech specs for subsystems...
Игги Друге (46653) on 7/16/2014 11:02 AM · Permalink · Report
Why don't we make it even easier — add a "wild" (misc, unsorted, uncategorised) platform. That way, Kabushi could have added his Memotech games years ago, I could have added one or five Amstrad PCW games and Pseudo could add all PDP and CP/M games he wanted. When a certain type of games reaches a critical limit, it can be moved into a proper platform of its own.
And, that kind of testbed can also make it easier to sort tech specs out since they're tested on a case-by-case basis instead of written up beforehand.
Simon Carless (1834) on 7/16/2014 6:59 PM · Permalink · Report
That's too unstructured for me, personally - I think stuff will get lost in there and the URL structure would be really weird (and change when we shifted stuff to platforms). Would rather be specific... so generalized 'mainframes' category and then some tech specs would be aweeesome.
Игги Друге (46653) on 7/17/2014 12:19 PM · edited · Permalink · Report
I think it's the other way around. Use it as a testbed to find intricacies in the tech specs you didn't count on when you first drew up the guidelines for a platform.
Of course, use of gamegroups as a kind of platform placeholder would be mandatory.
Sooner or later, this platform will be necessary if our aim is to cover all games made.
Nélio (1976) on 7/17/2014 12:38 PM · Permalink · Report
Yes, but having the tech specs of all those different systems listed together will certainly be a source of mistakes. I can see people selecting specifications that end up not making sense for the platforms a particular game was released for. Wouldn't the tech specs listing have dozens and dozens of entries? Mainframes is already meta enough. A completely miscellaneous platform I think it's a bit too much. We could have other meta-platforms for similar systems that we could keep together until there are enough games in there that make it reasonable to split.
But I don't know it that's worth it. I see the point in mainframes, because some systems would be a pain to add and end up having just a couple of games. On the other hand, many games ran on a number of mainframes as they weren't written for one in particular. It does make some sense to group them, and see how it goes.
Игги Друге (46653) on 7/17/2014 3:00 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Nélio wrote--]Yes, but having the tech specs of all those different systems listed together will certainly be a source of mistakes. I can see people selecting specifications that end up not making sense for the platforms a particular game was released for. Wouldn't the tech specs listing have dozens and dozens of entries?[/Q --end Nélio wrote--]
Now you're thinking inside the box, dear Nélio. That's the line of reasoning that meant that it took fifteen years to add the arcade platform.
Obviously the tech specs for a wild platform will only offer the most generic alternatives; number of players and licence. Everything else is handled via a text field and gamegroups.
Nélio (1976) on 7/17/2014 4:09 PM · Permalink · Report
Don't believe I'm thinking inside the box. I want all those platforms to be added. I just dislike the idea of a generic platform which would hold computers, consoles, and handhelds from the 70s 'till now. That's just way too much. But as I said, I'm not against having multiple such "wild platforms", so that within each one all systems are somewhat similar.
Arcades are arcades. Those make sense as they are. It wasn't by reasoning like mine that they were left out this long.
Unicorn Lynx (181769) on 7/18/2014 10:55 PM · Permalink · Report
Great, please add me as an approver for it! I won't be active for the next ten days or so, though...
Kabushi (261374) on 8/16/2014 8:58 AM · Permalink · Report
Next one is: Pokémon Mini.
It's perhaps Nintendo's least known console/handheld, it only has ten games so it shouldn't be that hard to complete.
Havoc Crow (29905) on 8/20/2014 11:43 AM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Cavalary wrote--]By the way, that makes it 151[/Q --end Cavalary wrote--]
Platformon!
Gotta catch 'em all...
LepricahnsGold (142744) on 8/22/2014 5:20 AM · edited · Permalink · Report
I'd like to throw my support of Mainframes as a single platform category and suggest we add items like dedicateds like Atari's Stunt Cycle (http://www.atarimuseum.com/videogames/dedicated/sc450console.jpg) Mattel's Football (http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSRwo0U_hEn0-xX7dly17EB7htJFZmTNCn40J98OcCHVaWx1SPzcA), Game & Watch line (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/15/Game_%26_Watch.png), Coleco's tabletop Pac-Man (http://www.geekvintage.com/images/coleco-tabletop-pac-man-system.jpg), Frogger (http://www.handheldmuseum.com/Coleco/Coleco-Frogger.jpg), etc.
Simon Carless (1834) on 8/22/2014 3:48 PM · Permalink · Report
I'd like us to do Mainframes, but only as Mainframes (big gigantic computers from the 70s :P).
Pseudo_Intellectual (66423) on 8/22/2014 11:37 PM · Permalink · Report
so mainframes but not minicomputers?
Pseudo_Intellectual (66423) on 8/22/2014 11:37 PM · Permalink · Report
I don't like the distinction but it's a foot in the door!
Rola (8482) on 8/23/2014 12:49 AM · Permalink · Report
Pseudo, one day you need to sit down and find some golden mean to this issue. There are precious few people who have knowledge (& interest) about those ancient computers. I know it isn't easy, but we can't fall into a trap for (pseudo-or-not)intellectuals, who are never satisfied with the available solutions and can't come up with a compromise.
Игги Друге (46653) on 8/23/2014 1:10 AM · Permalink · Report
Well, the only meaningful distinction between a mainframe and a minicomputer (apart from size) is that you can play games on a mini, but not on a mainframe.
Simon Carless (1834) on 8/23/2014 1:56 AM · Permalink · Report
I'm not sure I meant that size should be an arbiter of the mainframes category, sorry - plz ignore me. I'm just excited about mainframe-type games being included.
Pseudo_Intellectual (66423) on 8/23/2014 4:57 AM · Permalink · Report
Can you share some thoughts on what you would like to see excluded from your idealized mainframes umbrella? Maybe like Michaelangelo, we can carve away everything from the block that is not the statue.
Pseudo_Intellectual (66423) on 9/1/2014 2:58 AM · Permalink · Report
Here's a perhaps-related question:
How much would we lose by extending the existing "Linux" platform to a "Unix" platform?
Игги Друге (46653) on 9/1/2014 9:35 AM · Permalink · Report
We'd have more to gain by merging the DOS, Windows 3 and Windows platforms.
Kabushi (261374) on 9/6/2014 7:46 PM · Permalink · Report
I'm considering adding two platforms for dedicated machines, one for consoles (including both older Pong machines and newer Plug N Play consoles) and one for handhelds (for Game & Watch and similar) although those Coleco machines perhaps wouldn't fit either.
Pseudo_Intellectual (66423) on 9/6/2014 8:02 PM · Permalink · Report
So we've got "Arcade machines (blanket case)", now you're working on "TV games (blanket case)" and "LCD handhelds (blanket case)" ... all good progress, not least because what must necessarily follow is "Mainframes (blanket case)" and "terminal games (blanket case)".
Simon Carless (1834) on 9/9/2014 4:46 AM · Permalink · Report
Agree on TV Games/LCD Handhelds, yes. Let's do it. Less thorny than Mainframes :)
Игги Друге (46653) on 9/11/2014 9:53 AM · Permalink · Report
[q]...also: what would be screenshot standards for these? Actual photos allowed...?[/q] I'm in favour. There's no other way to do it.
Игги Друге (46653) on 9/11/2014 9:52 AM · Permalink · Report
Screen type for starters.
I can think of TV, discrete LEDs, FL tube, LCD. Controls: Joypad, joystick, handle, paddles, buttons. Number of players: 1, 1-2 (alternating), 1-2 (same time), 2 players only. Format: Portable, plug-in, tabletop.
Tracy Poff (2095) on 9/11/2014 10:51 AM · Permalink · Report
On the multiplayer front, I've got an LCD game that had contacts at the top so you could push it against another copy of the game to connect, so as to have two-player simultaneous gameplay. That's perhaps worth distinguishing from two-players-one-handheld.
As for inputs, I had a TV game with a lightgun as well. Oh, and some kind of art game-toy-thing that had stylus-on-tablet input. I'm pretty sure it was a game, anyway... this was back in the nineties or so, I think.
And keyboard is probably a valid input type... I'm thinking of Speak & Spell, though the thing I had actually had a separate pluggable voice cartridge, so it may not have been the same...
And speaking of that, audio output should be a tech spec.
Oh, I also have a handheld game that is a flight simulator (very reminiscent of Top Gun for NES, actually) that you put up to your eyes and control by tilting the device, pushing buttons to fire. So... tilt-sensor input, too.
I feel like such a geek... but video games are so cool. So much variety...
Игги Друге (46653) on 9/7/2014 4:00 AM · Permalink · Report
What now, have you already run out of ZX81 games?
Don't forget to add the sound box to the tech specs — http://jupiter-ace.co.uk/sw_centipede.html
Sciere (930964) on 9/15/2014 10:42 AM · edited · Permalink · Report
Kabushi, if you could add GameStick to the system, I'll gladly fill in the tech specs. Similar to OUYA in design and concept. The games need to be written/adapted for GameStick's Android version (and are released through a curated store) and it does not run regular Android games: "it’s safe to assume running anything other than sanctioned GameStick games will take some serious work, at least until the community figures out a solid process for rooting it" (source)
Sciere (930964) on 9/16/2014 10:12 PM · edited · Permalink · Report
Unfortunately I can't access the Approver Setup page. It times out and then knocks the site offline. If you know a workaround or can access it, add me as an approver. Released games can be looked up through https://zone.gamestick.tv/games. The ones listed on the main (front) pages often include announcements, but not always released already.
edit: it works again today
LepricahnsGold (142744) on 9/16/2014 10:40 PM · Permalink · Report
Are platforms like BeOS or Solaris just mainframe or do these run on a desktop PC? If they are desktop, we may want to consider adding them.
Pseudo_Intellectual (66423) on 9/16/2014 11:11 PM · Permalink · Report
Solaris is a UNIX (some of which run on PC hardware), and BeOS originally ran on its own hardware but was ported first to PowerPC and then Intel.
Игги Друге (46653) on 9/19/2014 1:45 PM · Permalink · Report
Neither is well-known for its fantastic games library.
Pseudo_Intellectual (66423) on 9/20/2014 12:05 AM · Permalink · Report
Very true. Basically I see adding *nixes as an all-or-nothing prospect, except that somehow we already have Linux in here and none others. (Well, OSX, but let's not split hairs.)
Kabushi (261374) on 11/23/2014 9:43 AM · Permalink · Report
It's been a while since the last addition, but today two new ones are live: Camputers Lynx and Coleco Adam.
There are no tech specs for these yet, please request if you plan to submit any.
Rola (8482) on 11/23/2014 10:20 PM · Permalink · Report
Thanks for Camputers Lynx. I've seen at least 2 covers mentioning joystick. Apart from the cassette, obviously type-in (I wonder if anything was released on 5.25" disks?). Not sure how many games had 96KB or 128KB requirements over the basic 48KB RAM.
Игги Друге (46653) on 12/5/2014 1:33 PM · Permalink · Report
Thank you, this is very interesting.
LepricahnsGold (142744) on 12/23/2014 2:32 AM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Kabushi wrote--]Another mobile platform: Fire OS [/Q --end Kabushi wrote--]I want to make sure I'm clear here. As I understand it, the OS Amazon uses for it's Kindle Fire line is called Fire OS but, here, we are talking about games that are released that are only available for the Amazon Fire Phone, correct?
The Maverick (246) on 12/13/2014 7:24 PM · Permalink · Report
Requested platform: Bally Astrocade
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bally_Astrocade
I can contribute screenshots, cart scans and cover art.
Игги Друге (46653) on 12/18/2014 8:54 PM · Permalink · Report
Très cool, like the Québecois say.
Michael Cassidy (21287) on 12/23/2014 6:05 AM · Permalink · Report
SEGA's Advanced Pico Beena would be nice. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sega_Pico#Advanced_Pico_Beena http://segaretro.org/Advanced_Pico_Beena
Also, View-Master Interactive Vision http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/View-Master_Interactive_Vision
LepricahnsGold (142744) on 12/23/2014 8:06 AM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Michael Cassidy wrote--]SEGA's Advanced Pico Beena would be nice. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sega_Pico#Advanced_Pico_Beena http://segaretro.org/Advanced_Pico_Beena
Also, View-Master Interactive Vision http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/View-Master_Interactive_Vision [/Q --end Michael Cassidy wrote--]Well, if we're gonna do the View-Master console, what about Action Max: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Action_Max
Michael Cassidy (21287) on 12/23/2014 9:57 PM · edited · Permalink · Report
[Q --start LepricahnsGold wrote--] [Q2 --start Michael Cassidy wrote--]SEGA's Advanced Pico Beena would be nice. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sega_Pico#Advanced_Pico_Beena http://segaretro.org/Advanced_Pico_Beena
Also, View-Master Interactive Vision http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/View-Master_Interactive_Vision [/Q2 --end Michael Cassidy wrote--]Well, if we're gonna do the View-Master console, what about Action Max: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Action_Max [/Q --end LepricahnsGold wrote--]
I was going to suggest that, too.
EDIT: What about iPod Touch?
EDIT 2: If you add Interactive Vision, I now own a copy of "Disney's Cartoon Arcade" for it, so I can provide an entry and scans for it.
Karsa Orlong (151778) on 12/28/2014 6:36 PM · edited · Permalink · Report
Not sure if this qualifies for a platform (russian answer for Game & Watch console - is it on file?), but I know at least 6 games for this 'handheld console' and even own one :-)
Elektronika (электроника)
http://media.splay.pl/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/wilk-i-zajac.png
http://inprl.pl/media/thumbnail/e0/b3/e0b36be45be6e50ab92223e931f063f9.jpg
http://www.ppe.pl/upload/news/16/84/33/small_1684336972.jpg
http://inprl.pl/media/thumbnail/73/fc/73fcdec30fd263b7963134bab6f8ccc0.jpg
http://img05.allegroimg.pl/photos/oryginal/49/26/39/53/4926395375
http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/dubikvit/65747770/572417/572417_600.jpg
http://www.gebooks.ru/products_pictures/kosmos1.jpg
http://demotivation.me/images/20110619/7ft05eokn1b0.jpg
http://vek-20.ru/oldvek/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/igra_Elektronika.jpg
GTramp (81961) on 12/29/2014 1:24 AM · edited · Permalink · Report
There were more of course, about 20 I believe... Btw, check this out .
Kabushi (261374) on 3/3/2015 6:42 PM · edited · Permalink · Report
Another 8-bit micro from the UK, this one released quite late (1985). It was no success but still managed to get quite a number of ports. Also seems to have been a hit in Hungary after it's initial failure on the home market.
More info:
Beware though, there are a lot of unofficial ports too, so don't submit those.
Kabushi (261374) on 3/4/2015 7:34 AM · Permalink · Report
Yes, I believe they published all of them.
See here too: http://ep128.hu/Album/Pic/Enterprise_programs.jpg
Игги Друге (46653) on 3/11/2015 1:02 AM · Permalink · Report
I've been longing for that one, but I'm all out of time and computer resources to touch that now.
Kabushi (261374) on 3/15/2015 12:46 PM · Permalink · Report
Two failed multimedia consoles from the nineties: Pioneer's LaserActive and Tandy/Memorex' VIS.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pioneer_LaserActive http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tandy_Video_Information_System
Pseudo_Intellectual (66423) on 3/15/2015 8:56 PM · Permalink · Report
That was fast work! 9 hours later and anything I might have been able to add for those is already either submitted or already approved!
Pseudo_Intellectual (66423) on 3/15/2015 11:15 PM · Permalink · Report
ahahaha, that's the only one I didn't try after missing out on rodney's funscreen, sherlock holmes consulting detectives and time gal 8)
Pseudo_Intellectual (66423) on 3/22/2015 9:06 PM · Permalink · Report
Well, here's one for it: http://www.ifarchive.org/indexes/if-archiveXgamesXbeos.html
Pseudo_Intellectual (66423) on 3/23/2015 2:23 AM · Permalink · Report
further items, though most of the low-hanging fruit have already been gathered:
http://www.bebits.com/browse/93 http://www.furby.d2g.com/BeOS/Games/BeGames.html
CalaisianMindthief (8172) on 4/26/2015 7:03 PM · Permalink · Report
Why are they categorized as "Other" here http://www.mobygames.com/moby_stats ?
Игги Друге (46653) on 5/6/2015 3:29 AM · Permalink · Report
Aren't they sufficiently close to consoles?
On a similar note, what are smartphones counted as?
Foxhack (32099) on 5/9/2015 6:39 PM · edited · Permalink · Report
I tried adding a few games I own, but many are already on the database under "Windows":
http://www.mobygames.com/game/windows/point-of-view/cover-art
http://www.mobygames.com/game/windows/point-of-view/release-info
All the info above is for a DVD version.
http://www.mobygames.com/game/tender-loving-care/release-info
The DVD version should be a US release, since this wasn't released worldwide - only in US/CA and Europe as far as I can tell..
http://www.mobygames.com/game/tender-loving-care/cover-art
There's three DVD cover art sets that need to be moved to the proper platform.
Oh, the DVD format should have DVD region as tech info, if it doesn't already. Most of these games may be R0 but there's the odd stuff that's locked once in a while.
Pseudo_Intellectual (66423) on 7/13/2015 4:08 AM · Permalink · Report
Awesomesauce! Now I'll just hop in the time machine to five years ago when I might have had some time to document the most important works from this corner...
I should drop a line at the intfiction.org forums to let them know they can document the games here now, though in the meantime they have started two parallel genre-specific databases, the ifwiki and the ifdb, and most of them are liable to ask: why bother?
Pseudo_Intellectual (66423) on 7/13/2015 4:16 AM · Permalink · Report
I don't see them in the game browser yet and haven't yet tried to make a new game entry for one. Are these live? Holding off on the announcement until you can verify 8)
Pseudo_Intellectual (66423) on 7/13/2015 4:27 AM · Permalink · Report
Two notes: 1) this is probably going to result in quite a flurry of corrections to platform-independent game entries already here that managed to "sneak in" by eg. being documented as being "published" for every hardware platform for which a z-code interpreter exists. But not all of the existing entries will be rewound, some titles were legitimately entered for platforms on the basis of game data having been distributed bundled with eg. windows or mac interpreters.
2) My bad, if we're going to support these three, for modern titles we will also need Glulx, which is basically a community-extended Z-machine with realistic, modern virtual machine limitations (eg. 32-bit) not constrained to the abilities of 8-bit microcomputer hardware. http://www.eblong.com/zarf/glulx/
Kabushi (261374) on 7/13/2015 9:38 AM · Permalink · Report
1, simply leave a note when adding a new platform and we'll remove the erroneous platforms and move all that needs to be moved to the new one.
2, I added Glulx too!
I've also added some rudimentary tech specs. Please let me know if anything more needs to be added.
Pseudo_Intellectual (66423) on 7/13/2015 6:42 PM · Permalink · Report
Extension to 2) -- if you're going to have all these, you had probably set up Adrift as well (only interpreted on Windows, but games typically circulated as game data only), which will give Mobygames domain over 99.9% of all modern IF.
Pseudo_Intellectual (66423) on 7/14/2015 5:08 AM · Permalink · Report
OK, I've made the announcement over at the intfiction forums, hopefully some of its obsessives can bring us more up to speed over here.
Havoc Crow (29905) on 7/13/2015 5:57 AM · edited · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Kabushi wrote--]Three virtual machine platforms for running modern interactive fiction games: Z-machine, Hugo and TADS [/Q --end Kabushi wrote--] Wow, great news out of nowhere!
Though, we might need to set some rough standards there - e.g. related to screenshots; can you just take a screenshot in any random interpreter and submit that?
Pseudo_Intellectual (66423) on 7/14/2015 5:12 AM · Permalink · Report
Early interpreters would give you results that looked very much like the screens of 8-bit microcomputers or standard MS-DOS terminal output; modern ones can give you selectable fonts, sophisticated kerning, etc. To quote the Gargoyle interpreter website:
As a rule of thumb, you probably want to use old interpreters for early ('90s) z-code games and more modern ones for more modern (up to the present day) ones.Gargoyle cares about typography! In this computer age of typographical poverty, where horrible fonts, dazzling colors, and inadequate white space is God, Gargoyle dares to rebel!Subpixel font rendering for LCD screens. Unhinted anti-aliased fonts: beautiful, the way they were designed. Adjustable gamma correction: tune the rendering for your screen. Floating point text layout for even spacing. Kerning for even more even spacing. Smart quotes and other punctuation formatting. Ligatures for 'fi' and 'fl'. Plenty o' margins. Plenty o' line spacing. Integrated scrollback. The default font for Gargoyle is Bitstream Charter and Luxi Mono. Two vastly underrated fonts that I find just perfect for screen reading. They are included, so there is no need to install anything on your system.
Gargoyle does not use any operating system functions for drawing text, so it can use any TrueType, OpenType or Postscript font file you specify in the configuration file.
Terok Nor (42723) on 7/14/2015 6:42 AM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Pseudo_Intellectual wrote--]As a rule of thumb, you probably want to use old interpreters for early ('90s) z-code games and more modern ones for more modern (up to the present day) ones. [/Q --end Pseudo_Intellectual wrote--]
Similar to how screenshots for Windows 3.x look best taken on a real Windows 3.x, not 9x or later.
BdR (7206) on 7/13/2015 12:19 PM · edited · Permalink · Report
Wait a minute, why was "Z-machine" (and Hugo and TADS for that matter) added as separate platform and not as a game-engine group!?
As far as I can tell Z-machine a virtual machine (see wikipedia), not an actual hardware machine or stand-alone operating system or something.
So in other words it's a "platform" in the same way that SCUMM or AGI or SCI or Freescape etc. are platforms... Except they're not platforms, they are game-engines and those can be documented using groups, see here: game engine: SCUMM, game engine: AGI, game-engine: SCI, game engine: Freescape. Heck, TADS was even added as game engine: TADS already.
It makes no sense to me to add these game-engines as separate platforms...
Pseudo_Intellectual (66423) on 7/13/2015 2:05 PM · Permalink · Report
The difference is that AGI games are distributed with interpreters for different hardware platforms (and platforms for which they are not published-with-interpreter , even if the games can be made to run on that platform, cannot be said to have had versions of that game published for it.) The vast majority of home-made text adventures in these formats are never distributed bundled with an interpreter, but solely as hardware-independent game data. This database here has traditionally been very hostile to documenting games not released specifically for particular hardware platforms, because the alternative of documenting each z-code game as belonging to each platform to which it /could/ be played on ... results in the madness of it being assigned to just about every single platform. Was this homemade game published for Game Boy Advance and Apple 2 in 2015? Well, no, and it's quite misleading to suggest otherwise.
The existing game groups were a stopgap measure in anticipation of this day which has now arrived -- collecting virtual machine games which "slipped through the cracks", or were released bundled with interpreters, or which did have virtual machine versions. In most of these cases the release date we have for these games is quite a bit later than the date it was actually first made and distributed. This is a step up.
BdR (7206) on 7/13/2015 7:09 PM · edited · Permalink · Report
Well okay I see your point with "platform-less" releases, so a zcode file not specifically for DOS or Windows etc. But some AGI fan-games are released in a similar fashion. Look at Voodoo Girl, the readme states that it's released for Windows, Mac and Linux and the developer points to Linux ports of the AGI engine.
Also, there are so many text-game interpreters; Agility, Alan, Z-machine, Glulxe, Hugo, Level 9, Magnetic, Scare, TADS etc. I mean, if you add a platform for all of these interpreters, then a "platform" gets really too narrowly defined I think.
A better way to cope with these "platform-less" releases is to add a generic "text-game interpreter" as a platform, and then have tech specs for that platform for all the different flavours like Z-machine, TADS etc.
Or another way to handle it is to just enter the main text-game engine (Z-machine, Hugo, TADS etc.) as one game entry on MobyGames, and then add all additional released games as DownLoadable-Content entries (does MobyGames support DLC yet?)
Finally, a really proper way to do it, is to add the z-machine, TADS etc. as new platforms, but then also subdivide the platforms into categories. So you would have a new layer of categories above platforms, like "hardware platforms" (NES, Amiga, PS1, Genesis etc), "operating systems" (Windows, Mac, Linux etc.) and "virtual machines" which would contain z-machine but also J2ME and Java.
Pseudo_Intellectual (66423) on 7/13/2015 8:38 PM · Permalink · Report
You can't throw Voodoo Girl at me, I documented that one here as well. I appreciate that until we have "software platforms" for all game development systems (and stand back, it looks like we may be getting them on demand from here on in!) that interpreter-less AGI game data releases are in the same boat that z-machine games were in as recently as last week.
Potential cross-hardware portability is a lesser issue for IF systems which just don't have interpreters on that many systems -- eg. Adrift games are de facto Windows games, as that's the only environment in which they could be reliably run. As for Magnetic and Level 9 games, they were never "published" as game data, but with hardware-tied executables. As for Alan games, there really aren't enough of them for anyone to care 8) (AGT games supported by Agility may have been archived for posterity as game data, but they were never distributed that way.)
As for "a better way", I've been grinding this particular axe for so long, never expecting to get it, I can't feel bad about the outcome. These will get categorized internally under a "software platform" umbrella (which also joins eg. handhelds, mobile devices, consoles and computers) but I don't know if users will ever see the designation.
For sure this isn't a solution to all our problems, but it's a solution to a subset of our problems which has bothered me for a long, long time. Never thought we'd see z-code here before CP/M!
Simon Carless (1834) on 7/13/2015 8:57 PM · Permalink · Report
For me this is a little bit controversial, but I agree that Z-Machine, etc is somewhat of a specialist interpreter vs, say, game engines.
Do you guys think we will have problems with people classifying the games additionally as PC, Mac, Linux, or should we be OK with adding PC, Mac, Linux to the platforms for each of these games?
Игги Друге (46653) on 7/13/2015 10:19 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Simon Carless wrote--] Do you guys think we will have problems with people classifying the games additionally as PC, Mac, Linux, or should we be OK with adding PC, Mac, Linux to the platforms for each of these games? [/Q --end Simon Carless wrote--] Only if they're distributed as a bundle with their corresponding interpreter.
Rola (8482) on 7/13/2015 11:02 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Игги Друге wrote--]Only if they're distributed as a bundle with their corresponding interpreter.[/Q --end Игги Друге wrote--] That's exactly my stance (also when we discussed adding BASIC), especially when it comes to physical distribution, because it's hard to ignore a shrinkwrapped box in front of you.
Pseudo_Intellectual (66423) on 7/14/2015 5:27 AM · Permalink · Report
Do you guys think we will have problems with people classifying the games additionally as PC, Mac, Linux, or should we be OK with adding PC, Mac, Linux to the platforms for each of these games?
You can look at Galatea to see the problem that this solution is intended to solve: it's attributed to all of Amiga, Apple II, Atari ST, Browser, Commodore 64, DOS, Windows. Why? Because the game is worth documenting, and it runs equally natively on all those platforms (with many others besides: as Wikipedia states,
Interpreters for Z-code files are available on a wide variety of platforms. The Inform website lists links to freely available interpreters for 15 desktop operating systems (including 8-bit microcomputers from the 1980s such as the Apple II, TRS-80 and ZX Spectrum, and grouping "Unix" and "Windows" as one each), 10 mobile operating systems (including Palm OS and the Game Boy), and three interpreter platforms (Emacs, Java and JavaScript). According to Graham Nelson, it is "possibly the most portable virtual machine ever created") Supporting the games at all here is a big boon to Mobygames, but it profits us nothing to have thousands of these games flooding the Game Boy Advance and Dreamcast queues just because the games can be made to run there.
The big question is whether in the Z-machine platform we will include Infocom's games, as though the program used to write the games (ZIL, Zork Implementation Language) was different from Inform, it was the same virtual machine they were being written to run under. This came up earlier in the z-code group and the ruling was to exclude them. Granted, Infocom never distributed their games sans interpreter, but of course every game they released included game data.
Havoc Crow (29905) on 7/14/2015 7:54 AM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start BdR wrote--]A better way to cope with these "platform-less" releases is to add a generic "text-game interpreter" as a platform, and then have tech specs for that platform for all the different flavours like Z-machine, TADS etc. [/Q --end BdR wrote--] I like this idea. There are so many text game formats that the database would get a little messy if we were to add every single one.
Simon Carless (1834) on 7/14/2015 1:54 PM · Permalink · Report
I think I actually prefer the text game interpreter idea, although it's tricky. What about Twine for example? Would this be another platform?
Pseudo_Intellectual (66423) on 7/14/2015 2:23 PM · Permalink · Report
When you compile a Twine story, your output is an html file, which you run through a web browser, which makes it a browser game. The litmus test is I think "what happens when you double click on it in Windows Explorer?" An executable: executes. An HTML file: loads in the browser. A z5 file: has no idea what to do.
Pseudo_Intellectual (66423) on 7/14/2015 2:21 PM · Permalink · Report
With the exception of Adrift, we have now covered all of the major formats.
Kabushi (261374) on 8/17/2015 3:40 PM · Permalink · Report
Timex Sinclair 2068 has been added. This is an updated version of a ZX Spectrum released in the United States, Portugal and Poland. It has low compatibility with the original Spectrum. Therefore it is a new platform unlike earlier Timex Sinclair computers that we cover under ZX81.
More info: http://www.old-computers.com/museum/computer.asp?st=1&c=634
Игги Друге (46653) on 8/17/2015 8:41 PM · Permalink · Report
Interesting. I've held off submitting at least one Timex game because it didn't seem to make sense to cram it into the Spectrum platform.
Kabushi (261374) on 3/21/2016 7:50 PM · edited · Permalink · Report
I've added the TRS-80 MC-10 and Matra Alice computers as two new platforms.
The MC-10 platform also includes the first Alice computer (Alice 4K) since they are almost identical and fully compatible with each other. The other two Alice computers have different hardware and are not compatible with the MC-10. Therefore they have been added as a separate platform: Alice 32/90.
Kabushi (261374) on 3/23/2016 2:10 PM · Permalink · Report
Another French platform added: Exelvision
Игги Друге (46653) on 3/29/2016 1:30 PM · Permalink · Report
Very interesting!