Forums > MobyGames > Suggestions thread
MobyReed (357) on 12/20/2013 3:17 AM · edited · Permalink · Report
Although there's a lot of work to do yet before we can really start on new features, let's start collecting some ideas!
What would you like to see added to the site? And what do you think should be changed and improved?
Post away! Help shape the future of MobyGames.
Update: This thread has grown to the point of being pretty unmanageable and slow, so going forward, please post and discuss suggestions in the new Suggestions forum. Thanks!
GAMEBOY COLOR! (1990) on 12/20/2013 3:54 AM · Permalink · Report
I think we should start adding LCD games to the database. There could be a general LCD category, with sub groups where the games are listed by manufacturer. The same game was rarely made by two different manufacturers, so there's no need to give each manufacturer a category. Say you wanted to look for a game made by Casio. They made pocket games and watch games. All that would be required to differentiate the two is something in the title denoting it as a watch game. That's roughly how I think it should go.
TI calculator games should also be documented. A general TI platform could be made, with the tech specs noting what TI version it requires.
I think documenting LCD and TI games is a good idea since nobody else seems to be.
j.raido 【雷堂嬢太朗】 (100156) on 12/22/2013 8:17 PM · Permalink · Report
Should probably put a warning here that a few contributors -- can't remember who off the top of my head -- were quite against adding arcade games as a platform.
Personally, I think it could work, so long as we're very careful about defining the limits beforehand. I'd love to get all those original versions of old console ports added. :)
Игги Друге (46653) on 12/22/2013 8:37 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start vedder wrote--]I think the greatest reason not to add it has always been tech specs. With all the different hardware it will be a complicated to put together. [/Q --end vedder wrote--]
Keeping track of what's inside an arcade cabinet is as pointless as keeping track of what ROM sizes and mappers are inside a console cartridge. It's a box you put money into to play a game, and all you need to keep track of is if the box has a joystick, a steering handle, a paddle or a built-in seat.
If you want a platform with tricky tech specs, look at the PC platform.
BdR (7206) on 12/30/2013 11:50 PM · Permalink · Report
I like the idea of adding LCD games, but keep in mind that these games are very diverse. For example there are handhelds and tabletops, and there are AFAIK three types of display: LCD (by far the most common), LED (bright colored lights) and VFD (vacuum fluorescent display, looks similar to LED but not as bright). The last two types are mostly used in so called tabletop games. And btw you're wrong in assuming there are no other sites that catalog them. See for example: http://www.handheldmuseum.com/ and http://handheldempire.com/
And it's actually pretty common for 1 game to have several manufacturers, for example the game "highway" is listed on handheldempire.com as manufactured by Mini Arcade, Tandy, Radio Shack and a few others. Or the game "Eagle N Chicken" by Play & Time, Commodoor and Altic (Altic version is called "Eagle Catch Chicken")
So my point is, cataloging all these games might be more tricky than you'd think.
Игги Друге (46653) on 12/31/2013 11:45 AM · Permalink · Report
That's not what I'd call tricky. If you want tricky, look at the PC platform.
BdR (7206) on 12/31/2013 1:51 PM · edited · Permalink · Report
MobyGames has always been about games on home computers and consoles. There are some differences between LCD games and home computer games to consider:
Игги Друге (46653) on 1/1/2014 1:43 PM · edited · Permalink · Report
[Q --start BdR wrote--]MobyGames has always been about games on home computers and consoles.[/Q --end BdR wrote--]
Well, MG has not always been about consoles. Originally, it was only a PC site, not even having non-IBM computers. If it is to be the ultimate database about video games, it can't be picky about them.
[Q --start BdR wrote--]
It certainly does. How else would it support budget publishers or the fact that different countries have different publishers?
[Q --start BdR wrote--]
If photographs is the only way possible, then so be it. It's not as though photos have ever been a requirement (I think only half the games in the database do have screenshots).
[Q --start BdR wrote--]
I have no idea, but standards must be set according to realities.
[Q --start BdR wrote--]
So is the 2600 platform.
[Q --start BdR wrote--]I'm not saying it's impossible. But I think it's better to first focus on other challenges, like improving the "Game Browser" and search capabilities, before opening up a can of worms like adding LCD games.[/Q --end BdR wrote--]
The thing is, the game browser is not done by the same people approving games, just as 2600 games aren't approved by the people handling Macintosh games.
Pseudo_Intellectual (66423) on 12/20/2013 3:59 AM · Permalink · Report
No surprises here: arcade games, mainframe games, Unix games, CP/M, OS/2, terminal games (something expansive enough to cover MUDs, Plato, and the odd Gopher or IRC game.) Also: actual download links for freeware, and referral "buy here" links for GOG and Steam to help pay the bills.
Oh yes: also, time to chop up the Macintosh platform into its mutually incompatible flavours, same as we do for Windows.
Pseudo_Intellectual (66423) on 1/7/2014 5:31 PM · Permalink · Report
Oh yes, here's one of my low-priority outlier left field no-hope cases: getting computer-moderated PBM games to count as computer games here. From the Digital Antiquarian's post today on Mike Singleton:
In 1977 he discovered his first computer game (again, of a sort). Starweb was a play-by-mail game from the pioneer of the format, the American company Flying Buffalo. A harbinger of countless space-based grand-strategy games to come, Starweb required that players communicate each move on paper via post, writing their commands out using an arcane language to be entered into the game’s host, an exotic Raytheon 704 minicomputer. Once all of the players’ moves were entered, the Raythoen spit out the results in another arcane format that was, just for extra fun, completely different from the command-entry format. These reports were sent to players by return post. When two players met in the game, each was provided with her counterpart’s address, so they could talk amongst themselves and plot alliances and wars. And so it went, at a cost of $1.75 per move. Despite the extra postage cost and time delay entailed by his living in far-off England, Singleton was entranced. His first game lasted two years, ending in his victory over about fifteen others. He continued to play avidly thereafter. (Starweb, now approaching its 40th anniversary, is still an ongoing concern. The only obvious change from the game Singleton knew is that the communication can now be done via email.)
The input and output layer has envelopes as intermediary stages, but the computer at the heart of things makes the game happen!
Игги Друге (46653) on 1/7/2014 5:55 PM · Permalink · Report
In a way, those new-fangled video terminals or virtual reality glasses are just as strange means of communicating with a computer.
Pseudo_Intellectual (66423) on 1/7/2014 5:58 PM · Permalink · Report
We agree on more things than not here, but we're equally ineffective at actually getting changes implemented 8)
Indra was here (20752) on 12/20/2013 4:20 AM · Permalink · Report
I must be getting old. Usually had at least 30 items on a list such as this. The last MG fiasco must've drained me somewhat.
Contribution Wizard
- When continuing an unfinished game entry. All contributed categories should be identified in the wizard when re-contributing. The default position is the wizard only recognizing items you checked in the first step (i.e. if you didn't check on the box for cover art, you can't edit the cover art you submitted for the game - have to restart process).
- Ability to duplicate items for different platforms that may be identical. Usually credits.
- Warning available if another user is currently working on same credits/screenshot contributions. Originally suggested by Kit.
Credits
- Ability for approvers and users to access credit screenshots (screenshots you submit as proof when submitting credits). Usually for the purposes of fact checking.
User Friendliness
- A mobylinks button available in the forums and anywhere else for our less html aware users (similar to wikis). Applicable to all html tags. e.g. bold, italics, etc.
- Links/searches should be removed and incorporated in the main game rapsheet. It's the internet. Mutual linking should be the norm.
Tech Specs
- Minimum HD space required spec. Minimum CPU speed spec. Supported Video Cards spec.
Reviews
- A minor edit feature, when you just want to fix grammar/spelling mistakes in your review without it having go through the approval process.
Screenshots
- Revise tool screenshot captions.
- Ability for approvers/user to re-arrange screenshot sequencing without a workaround (e.g. fixing main title shot sequenced in the middle).
Search Engine
- Results of different platforms with the same name should be merged into one search result. Unless it's a different game entry.
- Ability to search for games in relation to game groups.
Other
- Lists ( < li > ) don't show properly during preview in the contribution process. This bug made me not care about MG anymore. It's an OCD thing.
Havoc Crow (29905) on 12/20/2013 8:55 AM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Indra is awakening... wrote--] Ability for approvers and users to access credit screenshots (screenshots you submit as proof when submitting credits). Usually for the purposes of fact checking. [/Q --end Indra is awakening... wrote--] Heh. It would be nice if any user of MobyGames could access the source for any and all info in the database (so what if you spend hours painstakingly researching a release date, if your evidence is not available to the end-user and thus they have no reason to trust your data?)
Indra was here (20752) on 12/20/2013 5:12 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start JudgeDeadd wrote--]Heh. It would be nice if any user of MobyGames could access the source for any and all info in the database (so what if you spend hours painstakingly researching a release date, if your evidence is not available to the end-user and thus they have no reason to trust your data?) [/Q --end JudgeDeadd wrote--]Aye. Professionally and academically, there is 0% credibility as to why anyone should trust information we present here. Sources are not mentioned or identified publicly. As far as third parties are concerned, we could just be making up this stuff up as we go along.
Hell, no one with half a brain quotes Wikipedia officially despite it providing sources.
Pseudo_Intellectual (66423) on 12/20/2013 5:41 PM · Permalink · Report
Contributors know what kind of rigor we demand, after experiencing what a pain in the ass we can make submitting material here 8)
chirinea (47507) on 12/20/2013 4:34 AM · edited · Permalink · Report
Html tool boxes for editing texts in all boxes (including forums). Actually, many of the features implemented by Klaster_1's userscript tools would be awesome (specially some left bar links). Please, take a look (they work on Opera up to 12.16 and some work on Firefox).
More sorting options for approvals: sorting cover art by packaging type, for instance, to separate Electronic covers.
j.raido 【雷堂嬢太朗】 (100156) on 12/20/2013 4:42 AM · Permalink · Report
The ability to add developer AKAs directly, rather than only through corrections or merges.
Patrick Bregger (303297) on 12/20/2013 5:01 AM · Permalink · Report
You should take a look at the Wishlist thread, a lot of good suggestions there.
For content: Support for MobyRanks without scores. Also support for amateur reviews (not used in the MobyRank calculation), because the MobyRank system was crafted for professional magazines and websites. However, recent years brought a lot of blog-like review sites run by one or two individuals.
Havoc Crow (29905) on 12/20/2013 8:52 AM · Permalink · Report
Remove the silly and useless "feature" where the release date that shows up on a game's rap sheet is the release date in the user's country, as opposed to the first release of the game worldwide. For instance, the rap sheet for the PS2 version of Hitman: Contracts says "May 10, 2004", but that's just the first release in my home country (Poland); the game was initially released on Apr 20, 2004, as you can see from its release info page.
mars_rulez (44048) on 12/20/2013 10:40 AM · Permalink · Report
(sorry for the topic, i don't have seen this) From ever, one of the features of MobyGames, is to have sub-section (in any game page) regarding picture media, such as screenshots, or cover art scans.
how about to add a features for the magazines scans (reviews, adverts page, etc)?
Havoc Crow (29905) on 12/20/2013 12:37 PM · Permalink · Report
It might be possible, but there'd be a lot of potential problems--legal considerations, for one; nothing wrong with quoting reviews, but scanning magazine reviews outright could be frowned upon by the publishers.
Cavalary (11448) on 12/20/2013 1:26 PM · edited · Permalink · Report
Well, I am (or was) mainly adding mobyranks, so on top of what was already said:
- Determine mobyrank source based on URL, if one is added, only requiring choosing from pulldown (or adding new) if no URL is added or if the URL doesn't match an existing source or it somehow matches more than one (though that'd probably indicate an error).
- Do allow manual selection either way though, if the contributor wants to do it, and if there's a mismatch between source and URL continue to display a warning as it is now. If it is approved then automatically add the new listed domain as valid URL for that source, to avoid the current issue of URLs not being updated for years. Doesn't apply for Google Cache or Wayback Machine URLs of course, and in fact may just give approvers an option to override this behavior and make it not add the URL in a specific case, but default should be to add it.
- Auto-checking for duplicates based on URL.
- Fixing the issue with multiple different reviews from the same source (which based on Sciere's recommendation now should be lumped together into a single one with averaged score) by making the algorithm that calculates the game's overall mobyrank weigh all those from the same source as a single score, so they will be allowed to be added separately after all.
- Add platform checkboxes instead of a selection screen before being able to add any other rank info in case of multiplatform games, to also allow for quick additions of the all-too-common reviews listed as being for multiple platforms instead of needing to add the same info separately multiple times.
- When somebody adds a new source, allow adding new language as well, and if the source is approved then automatically add the language to the selection list for any other source additions from then on as well, so we won't depend on admins making those additions if needed, as I saw some say they had to.
- Specify in the standards that abstracts may be edited to remain the most relevant to the review while sticking to the single paragraph and 1000 character limits and, of course, as long as they're not actually rewritten. Don't want to go through the mess with jaXen (or anyone else like that... guy) all over again simply because I refuse to just copy the beginning or the end of the review with no changes whatsoever if that seems less relevant than selecting certain sentences from those paragraphs and/or changing a few words here and there.
Otherwise, some more currencies for the purchase prices that can be set in have lists wouldn't hurt. RON for one :)
And to add to the GOG/Steam links suggested above, first work with GOG to update the existing links, since they don't show up for all games in their catalog and the prices aren't updated (definitely don't see sale prices listed now...). Then I'd still suggest a price comparison service actually, whoever wants to work with us, give us code to query their catalog and if the game is found have it show up there, with the current price, so anyone will be able to shop around by checking the game's page from here. Can allow sponsored links to show up on top, as long as they're marked as sponsored, but otherwise fair is fair, show all prices, user picks, we get a percentage if they actually make a purchase. Will hardly earn anything directly, I'm sure, but doubt it'll hurt, and it may actually generate traffic which will help general ad revenue as well.
But this is long enough already, so I'll think of more later.
Patrick Bregger (303297) on 12/20/2013 2:01 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Cavalary wrote--]Fixing the issue with multiple different reviews from the same source (which based on Sciere's recommendation now should be lumped together into a single one with averaged score) by making the algorithm that calculates the game's overall mobyrank weigh all those from the same source as a single score, so they will be allowed to be added separately after all. [/Q --end Cavalary wrote--] No, I always submit separate rankings and especially for Amiga magazines other people do, too. We don't even know if the algorithm works correctly or not so it would be a bad idea to start preemptive workarounds.
Cavalary (11448) on 12/20/2013 2:36 PM · Permalink · Report
Hey, that's what he told me (after sending a few back after they had already been approved, then even told me to report if I see any others like that) and been doing it ever since, all approved as such. Only exception was when I asked on the forum what to do about the Walking Dead ones, since they were separate episodes but here they're listed as a single game, and he initially said lump them but you disagreed (raising this no preemptive workarounds thing too) and he eventually conceeded. When I asked whether that only applies to that particular case or he changed his mind about all I got no reply.
Patrick Bregger (303297) on 12/20/2013 3:25 PM · Permalink · Report
A useful implementation of compilations.
Fred VT (25949) on 12/22/2013 8:21 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Patrick Bregger wrote--]A useful implementation of compilations. [/Q --end Patrick Bregger wrote--]
Having compilations have a two-sided link to the games in includes, so the compilation would show-up on the included game's rap sheet would be nices, maybe even have the release info of those compilation show-up there too.
Indra was here (20752) on 12/23/2013 12:37 AM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Patrick Bregger wrote--]A useful implementation of compilations. [/Q --end Patrick Bregger wrote--]I thought we already agree upon which method to use when dealing with compilations. You know, the one no one paid attention to. :p
is_that_rain_or_tears (634) on 12/20/2013 5:02 PM · Permalink · Report
Allowing registered users comment other users' reviews. (Comments being subject to approval, and required to be relevant to the review.)
Karsa Orlong (151778) on 12/20/2013 6:55 PM · Permalink · Report
I would like to have the possibility of adding product code together with release info. As for now I have to wait for release approval and then I can add product code.
Fred VT (25949) on 12/20/2013 6:59 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Karsa Orlong wrote--]I would like to have the possibility of adding product code together with release info. As for now I have to wait for release approval and then I can add product code. [/Q --end Karsa Orlong wrote--]
Yeah, I also suggested that!
Fred VT (25949) on 12/20/2013 7:24 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start vedder wrote--]Related to that, cover art should be linked to release info. Now they are separate unlinked entities but in effect every set of cover art receives its own release info. [/Q --end vedder wrote--]
Thank you! I don't think the covers should be linked by default though, but we should be able to link them when both are available.
Iggi (36254) on 12/20/2013 10:11 PM · Permalink · Report
Agreed. Finding out a release date can be a very time consuming task, so enforcing a specific release date for submitting some cover art will probably result in way less cover art submissions. The exact release date is needed for the product code anyway, so it may be researched sooner or later...
Or in other words: For me it's more important to know that a specific version existed at all instead of having no information.
Parf (7871) on 12/20/2013 8:02 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Karsa Orlong wrote--]I would like to have the possibility of adding product code together with release info. As for now I have to wait for release approval and then I can add product code. [/Q --end Karsa Orlong wrote--]
If you mean additional release info to an existing game, then yes please! When you submit new games you can add product codes right away, but they end up in a separate queue from the core submission. It would be nice if all info I add to a game could be looked over at once since I tend to do Japanese games (usually ps1), where I add all the alternative titles, spellings and product codes right away. So usually what happens is, a game gets approved but is missing a bunch of stuff until those items are caught up to in their own separate queues. So, it would be nice if I could get a complete package approved at once instead of a trickle.
Karsa Orlong (151778) on 12/20/2013 8:35 PM · Permalink · Report
Yes, I'm talking about adding just a new release (same when adding new platform - can't add product code before platform approval). As for now it looks like this:
1. I have to add covers
2. I have to add release and point added covers as a proof (but need to wait firs for covers approval).
3. When release (and covers as a proof) is approved I can add product codes, what takes months all together.
This should be all connected as one submission, same as we add a new game.
Fred VT (25949) on 12/20/2013 8:44 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Karsa Orlong wrote--]Yes, I'm talking about adding just a new release (same when adding new platform - can't add product code before platform approval). As for now it looks like this:
1. I have to add covers
2. I have to add release and point added covers as a proof (but need to wait firs for covers approval).
3. When release (and covers as a proof) is approved I can add product codes, what takes months all together.
This should be all connected as one submission, same as we add a new game.
[/Q --end Karsa Orlong wrote--]
If it can also be all approved at once, it also makes less different items in the queue...
vedder (71144) on 12/20/2013 7:15 PM · edited · Permalink · Report
As I also suggested per PM, but I guess it can't hurt throwing it out here as a reminder for everyone else again either:
Updating the genre classfications:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ArUcXALs1MCpdHlqWVBmbVR2NW8yVExEd2pIOFpYOVE&usp=drive_web&authkey=CLit-rkH&authkey=CLit-rkH&richtext=true#gid=0
Also, automatically turning links into clickable links would be nice :P
Starbuck the Third (22601) on 12/20/2013 7:37 PM · Permalink · Report
The ability to display you PSN ID on your rapsheet, like with you xbox gamertag
Alaka (106652) on 12/21/2013 5:54 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start vedder wrote--]
Updating the genre classfications:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ArUcXALs1MCpdHlqWVBmbVR2NW8yVExEd2pIOFpYOVE&usp=drive_web&authkey=CLit-rkH&authkey=CLit-rkH&richtext=true#gid=0
[/Q --end vedder wrote--]
Yes, this would be a great step forward if implemented.
BdR (7206) on 12/30/2013 11:35 PM · edited · Permalink · Report
[Q --start vedder wrote--]Updating the genre classfications:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ArUcXALs1MCpdHlqWVBmbVR2NW8yVExEd2pIOFpYOVE&usp=drive_web&authkey=CLit-rkH&authkey=CLit-rkH&richtext=true#gid=0
[/Q --end vedder wrote--]
Some great proposals here, I especially support the changes in "genres" and "presentations", this would be a great improvement. Especially if you could also search on those properties.
In my opinion the "Game Browser" is long due for an overhaul. I can see this would be a great way to find games, but you can't use all options. There are some valid searches that the current Game Browser doesn't support, for example Playstation1 -> Compilation/shovelware, or SNES -> Isometric view.
Havoc Crow (29905) on 1/1/2014 8:40 AM · edited · Permalink · Report
[Q --start vedder wrote--]As I also suggested per PM, but I guess it can't hurt throwing it out here as a reminder for everyone else again either:
Updating the genre classfications:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ArUcXALs1MCpdHlqWVBmbVR2NW8yVExEd2pIOFpYOVE&usp=drive_web&authkey=CLit-rkH&authkey=CLit-rkH&richtext=true#gid=0
Also, automatically turning links into clickable links would be nice :P [/Q --end vedder wrote--] I like that genre list, except for the "Arcade" genre. I always found it an ill-defined and confusing genre, and the way it's described on the above list ("action games with very simple gameplay interaction similar to coin-op arcade games. These games usually require little puzzle solving or tactical thinking and rely solely on the “twitch” gameplay") suggests that it could be applied to pretty much nearly every action game ever made.
Игги Друге (46653) on 1/1/2014 1:53 PM · Permalink · Report
Absolutely not. Quake is an action game, but it certainly isn't an arcade game. Pac-man is, and so is Popeye, Q*Bert and other games with repetitive gameplay, often on one screen only.
Action is a class, arcade is a gameplay style.
Patrick Bregger (303297) on 12/20/2013 8:29 PM · Permalink · Report
A RSS feed for the general Game Updates list.
is_that_rain_or_tears (634) on 12/20/2013 11:22 PM · Permalink · Report
Points reward system needs rationalization. Fon one, awarding a real game case cover art with as many points as a virtual cover downloaded from the internet is silly.
Cavalary (11448) on 12/21/2013 1:14 AM · Permalink · Report
Well, if you contribute a digital "cover" you just have the one image. If you contribute physical cover scans, you probably have front, back, media and possibly some other stuff too, so it adds up to a whole lot more even if each individual image is awarded the same number of points.
Daniel Saner (3503) on 12/25/2013 5:03 PM · edited · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Cavalary wrote--]Well, if you contribute a digital "cover" you just have the one image. If you contribute physical cover scans, you probably have front, back, media and possibly some other stuff too, so it adds up to a whole lot more even if each individual image is awarded the same number of points. [/Q --end Cavalary wrote--]
Very often though, about a dozen or so digital covers are submitted at once, from different stores, so it's easy to make more points than with actual scans. And the amount of work is in no relation, one is right click -> save as, the other is physically lugging boxes around, put on flatbed scanner, scan, flip, scan, open, scan, flip, scan, remove booklet, scan, remove disc, scan... not to mention the post-processing that is necessary.
Игги Друге (46653) on 12/26/2013 12:39 AM · Permalink · Report
At least Apple's app store and Google's are as easy as a right click.
Игги Друге (46653) on 12/26/2013 2:22 AM · Permalink · Report
There is a web version where you can download high-res versions.
GTramp (81961) on 1/22/2014 10:55 PM · Permalink · Report
Anyone here knows a good way of contributing digital covers from Nintendo's virtual console (e-shop) site? They're transparent .png's, and MobyGames automatically converts them to .jpg, making transparent background black. I have to manually clean up the background, but the result is still far from perfect. At the same time I see some better quality covers approved. So, can anyone share a way to do it? (I promise not the snatch your contribution points) (Well, I think so)
vileyn0id_8088 (21040) on 1/23/2014 2:24 AM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Cavalary wrote--]Open in Paint, save as JPG (or even as PNG), transparent area becomes white.[/Q --end Cavalary wrote--] ...which is no better than having it black. Same problem exists with company logos as well.
vileyn0id_8088 (21040) on 1/23/2014 2:42 AM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Cavalary wrote--]Well, white would largely blend with the background here, so be more or less as if transparent. [/Q --end Cavalary wrote--] Not if you're using MobyDark (on that note, screw you "desktop metaphor" OSes for introducing black-on-white as the de-facto standard... my eyes hate you to this day). Ideally transparency should be preserved, though I do see why that would be a rather huge hassle.
GTramp (81961) on 1/23/2014 2:31 AM · Permalink · Report
Unfortunately, it's not working as it should :(. Source: http://media.nintendo.com/nintendo/bin/pVARqskO1iboHPKU_vSbclXd4KfAwoPb/VzYjJGGD7rbCyiTgx6SWr4UySfNC3_nc.png . Result: https://cdn.mobygames.com/user/17133487-image.jpg?1
Cavalary (11448) on 1/23/2014 2:44 AM · Permalink · Report
Works for me...
vileyn0id_8088 (21040) on 1/23/2014 2:47 AM · Permalink · Report
I'd open the transparent image in photoshop/gimp/any image editor with layer support, and paste it over a properly-colored background layer. If that's too much, I'm sure a simple ImageMagick script could do the trick.
Foxhack (32099) on 1/23/2014 4:47 AM · edited · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Cavalary wrote--]Open in Paint, save as JPG (or even as PNG), transparent area becomes white. [/Q --end Cavalary wrote--]And why can't the server can't take a transparent PNG, slap the watermark on it, and save it as another transparent PNG?
No, seriously. Why not? There's already something that turns all files into JPGs. If the image is small and has transparency then just turn it into PNG instead of JPG. I can't imagine there not being a simple library that does this already.
Pseudo_Intellectual (66423) on 1/23/2014 4:22 PM · Permalink · Report
A potential automated step whose omission leaves me scratching my head:
enter new platform: Arcade
enter year: 1989
enter company: Atari Games
WAIT WAIT HOLD UP, which Atari Games do you mean: 1984-1993 or 1996-1998?
Er, I just told you.
vedder (71144) on 1/23/2014 7:28 PM · Permalink · Report
I'm not sure if that's strictly true. If I have a company called Super Awesome Games, Inc. and create a game release it etc. And then I change my company name a couple dozen times and go bankrupt. Then 20 years later another company gets the license to my game and releases a straight port for another platform. Shouldn't the developer name still be the old Super Awesome Games, Inc.? And not the last name before going bankrupt?
As a whole I do agree that our company selection could be made more user-friendly. If I type Ubi Soft and get to select one of the 28 subsidiaries + a huge amount of akas, I would at least like to have a little one liner behind each option that gives me the general gist of what they are.
Indra was here (20752) on 1/23/2014 7:49 PM · edited · Permalink · Report
I'm still wondering if there's a difference between Ubisoft, Inc. and Ubisoft San Francisco. Stupid Steam release info.
Игги Друге (46653) on 1/24/2014 12:30 AM · Permalink · Report
I don't think so, Vedder. Pseudo entered a game as released in 1989 and was still asked if he meant a company name that was only active from 1992.
Adzuken (836) on 12/21/2013 12:24 AM · Permalink · Report
I'd like to suggest that we separate the Famicom Disk System games from the rest of the NES. It had its own media, its own games, and expanded the audio capabilities of the Famicom. Basically all the things the Sega CD did for the Genesis. If the Sega CD is considered its own console, so should the FDS.
Alaka (106652) on 12/21/2013 1:50 AM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Adzuken wrote--]I'd like to suggest that we separate the Famicom Disk System games from the rest of the NES. It had its own media, its own games, and expanded the audio capabilities of the Famicom. Basically all the things the Sega CD did for the Genesis. If the Sega CD is considered its own console, so should the FDS. [/Q --end Adzuken wrote--]
This way seems fine to me.
Adzuken (836) on 12/21/2013 2:04 AM · edited · Permalink · Report
[Q --start ALAKA wrote--] This way seems fine to me. [/Q --end ALAKA wrote--] I disagree. Given the fact that some games were released specifically for the system and designed to take advantage of its expanded hardware features, I think it deserves to be listed as its own console. For example, Metroid's original disk release uses the writable media to allow the player to save their data. The Metroid cartridge requires password save. The fact that the original FDS release has a save feature is contradicted in the tech specs, which states that it uses passwords.
And again, if it's this way for the Sega CD, then it should be for the Famicom Disk System.
Игги Друге (46653) on 12/22/2013 2:33 AM · Permalink · Report
The argument against splitting NES and Famicom Disk System is easy: Games were released on both formats with very few differences. As opposed to the Mega CD, where the capabilities of the formats differed a lot.
Of course, I wouldn't exactly complain if Mega CD was merged into Megadrive, but it would mess up the system as long as multiple "ports" of the same game to the same platform isn't supported.
Foxhack (32099) on 12/21/2013 8:39 AM · Permalink · Report
A way to quickly add platforms to existing cover artwork.
A lot of games on Steam received Mac / Linux versions (typically after they get added to a Humble Bundle) so letting users add platforms to covers would probably be much easier than submitting corrections.
Unicorn Lynx (181769) on 12/21/2013 8:59 AM · Permalink · Report
Some of my really old suggestions, dating back to 2005 or so, I think:
- Platform pages. Such page says nothing about the system, and looks depressing. Pages with short descriptions, photos of the system, technical data, and perhaps reviews would have been a great addition.
- Genre pages. If clicking on a genre from a game's sheet yields this, why does simple browsing from the front page leads to this bare page? Also, it would be great to have proper genre pages with longer descriptions, history, etc.
- Editing own contributions. Whether it's a typo in a screenshot description or a change of heart for a reviewer - trusted users should have access to quick editing of their submissions without bothering the admins.
- List sorting. Currently, Have / Want lists contain only minimal information and are sorted by platform / letter only. How about the possibility to sort collections by genres, release years, companies, etc.?
- Fixing the search engine. Self-explanatory. The engine is horrible with any title involving numbers and sub-titles. Searching for Space Quest III shouldn't produce this page, for example.
Patrick Bregger (303297) on 12/21/2013 9:20 AM · edited · Permalink · Report
[Q --start YID YANG wrote--]List sorting. Currently, Have / Want lists contain only minimal information and are sorted by platform / letter only. How about the possibility to sort collections by genres, release years, companies, etc.? [/Q --end YID YANG wrote--] I'd like the opportunity to link releases (German release, Steam release, etc.) in my have list and not only the game itself.
Starbuck the Third (22601) on 12/21/2013 9:55 AM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start YID YANG wrote--]Some of my really old suggestions, dating back to 2005 or so, I think:
Platform pages. Such page says nothing about the system, and looks depressing. Pages with short descriptions, photos of the system, technical data, and perhaps reviews would have been a great addition.
[/Q --end YID YANG wrote--]
As I recall, the framework has placeholders floating around on the sites code, unlinked to the rest of the site from way back in the day. Even had some basic pictures, descriptions etc added by corn popper or someone from the administration before last.
Anouther that I recall suggesting way back, but I wouldn't mind seeing scans of game case spines being submittable. A lot nowadays are unique from game to game, yet they're not documented.
chirinea (47507) on 12/21/2013 5:27 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start havoc of smeg wrote--]As I recall, the framework has placeholders floating around on the sites code, unlinked to the rest of the site from way back in the day. Even had some basic pictures, descriptions etc added by corn popper or someone from the administration before last. [/Q --end havoc of smeg wrote--]This is what havoc is talking about. Brian started implementing it in 2004 but it was then abandoned.
piltdown_man (242944) on 12/21/2013 4:05 PM · Permalink · Report
I would like to see the rigorous standard of proof demanded by approvers maintained. The approval process is often complained about but, having tried other sites, the accuracy and completeness of our submitted data is one thing that sets moby games apart.
- Suggestion : Would publishing stats of the game queues and the work that approvers have done minimise the complaints that nothing is happening?
- Suggestion : I use a template for all my submissions so that I can provide proof for each piece of information supplied. Would it help submitters & approvers if there was a standard moby submission template?
I've had problems with moby searches too where the target game appears way down the results list. Best example I can come up with is a search on 'Magic Ball 2'. The first game shown is 'Magic Ball 3' with the target game being fifth in the list because its full name is 'Magic Ball 2: New Worlds'. There have been occasions when the game I was looking for was so far down the list, even on the next page, that I missed it and hence prepared a duplicate entry
Rola (8482) on 12/21/2013 4:09 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start piltdown_man wrote--]there doesn't seem to be an easily accessible list of [game groups][/Q --end piltdown_man wrote--] Indra and I have even tried a workaround for this: http://mobygroups.wikia.com
piltdown_man (242944) on 12/21/2013 6:00 PM · Permalink · Report
I confess I had missed this. I had no idea there were 4500+ game groups! It is very good work and I shall make use of it in future submissions, but it's not easily accessible from a user point of view.
Case in point, if you wanted to write about women as gaming role models a search on 'woman' brings up nothing while 'women' brings up just a few. Unless you know that a 'Protagonist: Female' group has been set up you could be forgiven for going elsewhere.
I have no idea how to improve the system and make game groups easier to use, but it's still something that I think is an underused asset
Indra was here (20752) on 12/23/2013 1:13 AM · edited · Permalink · Report
Part of the problem is this: in the gaming community, genres are actually no different from a variant/clone. Only difference is, one has a marketing name for it or it was a term stolen from other fields, while the other has an actual reference to what game it was referring to.
I repeat there is no difference between a genre and a variant. Just so you know that genres are in no higher hierarchy than our version of at least one Gameplay: [Game Group] combined in addition to theme and perhaps certain graphical styles. They're highlighted just because it has fancier marketing name/nerd term. And the plebs fall for it every time.
Now problem lies when you have genres with no detail on the specific characteristics defined and then you have game groups popping up describing exactly those characteristics. Only problem is, not all characteristics need to be game grouped, as they're often too vague and not unique enough. Here's an example of the description of 4x I'll make as a test case. Granted perhaps too detailed for a standard genre, but one does not make an argument from ignorance.
As you can see, from all the characteristics I've mentioned. The four-Xs are actually unhelpful in describing the genre, as it's standard practice in any non-board strategy game anyway so even the creator of 4X didn't have a clue on what he was talking about. What separates 4X games with other strategy games, is the tech tree and diplomacy features, previously uncommon. The two most defining features not even remotely mentioned in the 4x title (and have yet to be individual game groups). Yeah, gamers are that dumb sometimes.
And any attempt for me to fix these game groups (admittedly via trial and error) to make it easier for hardcore users to search for game fetishes are constantly thwarted by approvers with stupid arguments. Scratch that, not even an argument. Just an opinion. So fak that.
<hr />For your case point, it can't be helped. You're talking about keywords and it's no different from a search engine. If you don't know the keyword, you're screwed (which is why many people end up in MG because they don't the term abandonware before). You could add additional tags to a name, e.g. woman, female, girl, to the game group title, but that would create more problems that it solves.
What would help is a separation (e.g. search engine) between game groups that define a particular element with game groups whose sole purpose is to identify a series or compilation. Personally, I think they should be in a different hierarchy separate from game groups.
Игги Друге (46653) on 12/23/2013 5:22 AM · Permalink · Report
A lot could be solved if there was hierarchical system of categories as on wikis.
Indra was here (20752) on 12/23/2013 6:03 AM · edited · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Игги Друге wrote--]A lot could be solved if there was hierarchical system of categories as on wikis. [/Q --end Игги Друге wrote--]Aye, that's a start. Though the obvious problem is what and which categories? Though due to the highly experimental nature of game groups, even how hard I try to try to correctly access that I have an idea what I'm talking about half the time, it's still going to be an extremely painful slow process.
So far the only hierarchy I can think of on the top of my head is:
1. Basic Genres.
2. Sub-Genres. For hybrid genres and game variants.
3. Game Groups. For features that only identify one characteristic.*
4. Tags (should be hidden from view unless user opts to see it).
- Game Series and compilations (not part of this hierarchy).
*If has more than one characteristic, dude isn't doing his research properly.
A bit tricky from my end now since non-approvers can't directly propose game groups. We've tried manually via forum. That turned out swell (sarcasm).
is_that_rain_or_tears (634) on 12/22/2013 4:08 AM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start piltdown_man wrote--]I would like to see the rigorous standard of proof demanded by approvers maintained. The approval process is often complained about but, having tried other sites, the accuracy and completeness of our submitted data is one thing that sets moby games apart.
- Suggestion : Would publishing stats of the game queues and the work that approvers have done minimise the complaints that nothing is happening?
- Suggestion : I use a template for all my submissions so that I can provide proof for each piece of information supplied. Would it help submitters & approvers if there was a standard moby submission template?
I've had problems with moby searches too where the target game appears way down the results list. Best example I can come up with is a search on 'Magic Ball 2'. The first game shown is 'Magic Ball 3' with the target game being fifth in the list because its full name is 'Magic Ball 2: New Worlds'. There have been occasions when the game I was looking for was so far down the list, even on the next page, that I missed it and hence prepared a duplicate entry [/Q --end piltdown_man wrote--]
I agree on everything, save the standard template for submissions, which would be bothersome at best. I particularly agree on keeping the approvers' demands as they have been for years.
My experiences with approvals these days make me put it to have the old approvers team back to work soon on top of my requests.
As for rationalising points awards, yes, I meant points should be more closely related with effort took by contribution. (Example: virtual cover art should be rewarded with the least. Product codes, especially those not readable from back cover, more than currently.)
Submitting MobyRanks needs to be rendered much smoother a process; users should be able to select a default fixed source there rather than selecting from a long list each time.
Starbuck the Third (22601) on 12/21/2013 6:48 PM · Permalink · Report
Could we get the top contributor list set back to 50?
Indra was here (20752) on 12/22/2013 3:06 AM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start havoc of smeg wrote--]Could we get the top contributor list set back to 50? [/Q --end havoc of smeg wrote--]Top 100. Please.
Unicorn Lynx (181769) on 12/22/2013 3:21 AM · Permalink · Report
Definitely Top 100. You need several thousands of points to get there - this should be rewarded.
Simon Carless (1834) on 12/22/2013 9:35 AM · Permalink · Report
This is added to the master bug list (slash feature list) - thx!
Indra was here (20752) on 12/23/2013 6:10 AM · edited · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Reedx wrote--]Changed to top 100.
But 2013 has had only 67 contributors? Does that seem accurate? [/Q --end Reedx wrote--] A god exists! Much obliged, sir.
Looks like it's missing a few users. Stops at 300 points. Surely there are people with 200 points?
[edit] Looks like there's a cap at around 360 or 350. If you check since 1999, none of the contributions are marked lower than 360.
Sciere (930964) on 12/22/2013 10:57 AM · edited · Permalink · Report
Hey Reed (and Simon: hey! I used to judge for IGF for you once)
Bringing back MobyGames to its current, working shape was already the best thing you could possibly do, along with freeing it from the shackles of the butchering GameFly corporate and long-time apathetic owners before that (Brian, Trixter, Corn Popper; great guys really, but they just let the site go even long before the GameFly sale). So this is already amazing beyond anything that happened to the site before.
Despite its size, the MG community is a tight-knit group that depends on a small amount of shoulders with a lot of intricacies and irritations that might need some time to heal. There is an amazing bunch of people here with vast knowledge of gaming history and attention to detail not found anywhere else on the net. The status quo and lack of vision for many years have made many valuable people leave over time and it's hard to tell if they'll ever come back. For the past five years, also prior to the GameFly sale, the site's daily dealings were run by Kabushi and me as admins, along with brilliant and dedicated approvers such as Terok Nor, Patrick Bregger, Chirinea, jotaro, Yid Yang, vedder, Servo, Pseudo Intellectual, MAT (incomplete list!) and many more. These are the people you should talk to to refine the guidelines as we developed many policies and raised the bar of quality in an unwritten fashion, pouring in unhealthy amounts of time and work that went largely unnoticed by those in charge. Corn Popper is someone who made/makes a lot happen behind the scenes, but - to use his own lingo - is not really in the trenches, not in the loop with the daily dealings and standards that were developed over time.
Although I'm still reluctant about working again the way I used to do - there's only so much energy to go against the stream until it wears you out - I think the suggestions below may be vital to earn the community's trust and fix long-term annoyances:
-
As mentioned before: free the data over time, and make it available through an API or other means. Monetization is fine and you should earn your money back as soon as possible, but many people won't return until they know for sure their work won't disappear and will remain available whatever happens.
-
A long-time irritation is Corn Popper's unwillingness to reform the genres. As vedder linked above, we worked for months on redefining the genres as a more modern system. The document is a consensus between people who are all in the know, but it was never implemented. Reforming the genres to the system described would be an improvement that would be greatly appreciated.
-
As Jotaro mentioned, there is an annoying and long-time standing credits bug that causes correct information to be disfigured all the time. With every submission more information gets corrupted, so this should preferably be fixed as soon as possible. Because credits listings can be submitted in separate submissions, there can be multiple listings for a single platform, adding to and removing from each other. Unfortunately, corrections in a second submission often are reverted because we need to edit the first manually (we are not allowed to approve submissions with names marked in red, to be deleted from a prior submission, because it messes the system up, so it needs tiresome manual intervention). This causes corrected classifications, titles and groups to be messed up because the ones of the first submission are reinstated as soon as we go through the first one. This discourages people from correcting information, as the system butchers it afterwards. Preferably a credits listing ought to be treated as a single item that is built up and edited by multiple people, and not a set of different blocks that influence and rule out each other.
Also: a bug from a long time ago has many developers with the status "rejected". That means they are added to credits listings correctly, but are not displayed on the site, making the listing incomplete. It's impossible to go through each name on the admin site to check if every single developer has the correct status of "approved" and correct it manually, so preferably there should be a mass DB action where every developer should have the "rejected" status changed to "approved".
-
MG never managed to attract a large audience of very active contributors and approvers (just look at the amount of game ratings). The contribution process should be streamlined and simplified as much as possible, but without giving up the bar of accuracy and quality that has been built up. I'm not really in favour of automating approvals, except in specific areas and by certain trusted users. Even long-time contributors still make plenty of mistakes because there is so much to keep in mind (the Wikipedia policy syndrome). The main thing is the site just needs more eyes to let some checks go, because right now there are too few (eyes, not checks - those we have plenty).
-
The game entries system is still the same one as in 1999, but the world has changed. The site dearly needs an overhauled system for master game entries that include and incorporate DLC, special editions and local variations, but with the ability to still document each of those in full (credits, covers, screenshots etc.). Just check how complex The Walking Dead adventure games are organized currently for an example. The easiest way to do this would be to implement a system where a game entry can be classified as "main game", "DLC", "special edition" with a new system to reorganize and assign these. The same goes for compilations. Some games were not released outside a compilation and cannot be listed on the site. The same umbrella structure can be used to assign games to compilations as a main game entry. Other types of games have been let in through community consensus, such as the Facebook games that never go out of beta for instance.
-
Lastly, and this is a bit more personal: the community can be very vocal with a wide range of opinions. Don't wear yourself out with the amount of information and requests. Burnouts have happened to many people here, it can be quite overwhelming. Just make sure to keep in touch regularly and don't make promises/deadlines you can't keep, and you'll receive a lot of respect and warmth in return.
Good luck!
Indra was here (20752) on 12/22/2013 12:14 PM · edited · Permalink · Report
And that's why we call him the Belgian. Oh, wait. That's just me. :p
Yeah, what he said.
Starbuck the Third (22601) on 12/22/2013 6:44 PM · edited · Permalink · Report
[Q --start chirinea wrote--]And pro tip to Reed and Simon: listen to what Sciere has to say; he's the most prolific contributor, approver and admin of MobyGame's history, he knows his shit. [/Q --end chirinea wrote--]
Also knows a fair bit about MG, too! buh dum chiich
please don't hate me. I've got a lame joke quota to meet...
Simon Carless (1834) on 12/22/2013 7:13 PM · Permalink · Report
Super helpful post, Sciere :) Noted on the burnout - note to all, I'm able to be very active right now (because I'm on my Xmas holidays!), but Moby is not my day job - that's being in charge of GDC, Gamasutra, and various other events - and in fact, Moby doesn't make enough money right now for it to be Reed's day job either.
So - slow and steady will win the race here :P But I've seen what Reed has done with other sites like Drawception, and he's good at gradually making improvements without breaking things.
But in the long-term we're committed to making Moby easier to submit to, more accurate, and more complete, esp. when it comes to newer games. And as mentioned before, we also do believe in making the data more widely available for not-for-profit reasons, as someone noted IMDB does.
j.raido 【雷堂嬢太朗】 (100156) on 12/22/2013 8:25 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Sciere wrote--]3. As Jotaro mentioned, there is an annoying and long-time standing credits bug that causes correct information to be disfigured all the time. With every submission more information gets corrupted, so this should preferably be fixed as soon as possible. Because credits listings can be submitted in separate submissions, there can be multiple listings for a single platform, adding to and removing from each other. Unfortunately, corrections in a second submission often are reverted because we need to edit the first manually (we are not allowed to approve submissions with names marked in red, to be deleted from a prior submission, because it messes the system up, so it needs tiresome manual intervention). This causes corrected classifications, titles and groups to be messed up because the ones of the first submission are reinstated as soon as we go through the first one. This discourages people from correcting information, as the system butchers it afterwards. Preferably a credits listing ought to be treated as a single item that is built up and edited by multiple people, and not a set of different blocks that influence and rule out each other.[/Q --end Sciere wrote--] So that's why that happens! Oof, now I'm afraid at how some of my incremental revisions to fix up developer aliases over a half dozen or so submissions look internally, especially considering some were adjusted by you, while others were just straight approved by non-admins.
That said, I have some more radical ideas on how to handle credits and developer listings, but that's more long term and not really appropriate for this discussion. ;)
[Q --start Sciere wrote--]Also: a bug from a long time ago has many developers with the status "rejected". That means they are added to credits listings correctly, but are not displayed on the site, making the listing incomplete. It's impossible to go through each name on the admin site to check if every single developer has the correct status of "approved" and correct it manually, so preferably there should be a mass DB action where every developer should have the "rejected" status changed to "approved".[/Q --end Sciere wrote--] This is also a significant impediment when doing developer merges, as the "rejected" developers show up on the merge list but can't be merged.
Incidentally, 100 matches is not enough for that search, considering the size of the database, especially with no option to search by developer ID instead. I've never been able to merge this guy in all my years of trying. Perhaps 500 or even several thousand possible matches might be better? It's not like that's a query that normal users can abuse. :)
Sciere (930964) on 12/22/2013 8:29 PM · edited · Permalink · Report
Some games have 12 credits listings that way indeed, and I need to track the one with the name you want to remove, so each time I access one, something (a title or a classification) probably gets reverted. But don't let that hold you back. As for the ones with deletions approved, in the future just ask to escalate them to an admin right away if it contains a red name.
As for Hiro Yuki, I could temporarily rename him to a random name, say Nelson Mandela, and correct it back afterwards.
j.raido 【雷堂嬢太朗】 (100156) on 12/22/2013 9:11 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Sciere wrote--]Some games have 12 credits listings that way indeed, and I need to track the one with the name you want to remove, so each time I access one, something (a title or a classification) probably gets reverted. But don't let that hold you back. As for the ones with deletions approved, in the future just ask to escalate them to an admin right away if it contains a red name.[/Q --end Sciere wrote--] I usually do this, but sometimes someone else catches and approves it before I can forward them to you. ;) If only that were the least of our problems with the queues...
[Q --start Sciere wrote--]As for Hiro Yuki, I could temporarily rename him to a random name, say Nelson Mandela, and correct it back afterwards.[/Q --end Sciere wrote--] Would you kindly? He just needs to be merged into this entry.
This one, however, should stay as it is.
j.raido 【雷堂嬢太朗】 (100156) on 12/23/2013 1:18 AM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Sciere wrote--]Done, and nice try with the Andrew Ryan approach. [/Q --end Sciere wrote--] I must confess I've never actually played Bioshock, so I don't know the significance of the line beyond "it's a thing". Thanks for the merge, though! :)
Patrick Bregger (303297) on 12/22/2013 12:45 PM · edited · Permalink · Report
In the long term (yes, I throw that phrase around a lot lately) I'd like to see a complete documentation of gaming/computer magazines and coverdisks, of course connected with the individual game entries.
During the redesign I created a rough example on GoogleDocs for a competitor.
Indra was here (20752) on 12/22/2013 1:01 PM · Permalink · Report
Eventually, it'll have to turn into a dot org sooner or later. There's only so much 'fair use' you get way with as a dot com.
Daniel Saner (3503) on 12/25/2013 5:56 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Patrick Bregger wrote--]During the redesign I created a rough example on GoogleDocs for a competitor.[/Q --end Patrick Bregger wrote--]
That looks an eerie lot like a mock-up for a magazine database I made a long time ago =D
Havoc Crow (29905) on 12/22/2013 2:48 PM · Permalink · Report
Dates and exact ratings of MobyRanks should show up on the /mobyrank subpage, not just on the rap sheet.
Игги Друге (46653) on 12/22/2013 6:22 PM · Permalink · Report
In a game group overview, clicking a platform should take you to the platform-specific rapsheet for the game in question, not to the platform's game browser.
Pseudo_Intellectual (66423) on 12/23/2013 4:28 PM · Permalink · Report
This.
Havoc Crow (29905) on 12/23/2013 7:32 AM · Permalink · Report
I wish for an easier way to view full-size cover scans while approving a game entry. Currently you need to click "edit cover group 1", scroll down in the window that appears and only then you can click on the covers to see them in full.
Игги Друге (46653) on 12/23/2013 4:30 PM · Permalink · Report
Seconded.
And yesterday, I encountered rendering problems with screenshots in the game approval page, with a visible IMG tag and a non-clickable image.
Starbuck the Third (22601) on 12/24/2013 11:21 AM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Greg2600 wrote--]Really need a mobile layout/version of the site. Trying to navigate on a phone is really difficult. [/Q --end Greg2600 wrote--]
As long as you can choose to have the desktop site on tablets. Even the low end, small screen tablets won't have any trouble with MG.
GTramp (81961) on 12/24/2013 7:34 AM · Permalink · Report
Hey everybody, it's wonderful to have the old site back. And old folks too!
The news found me on my way to vacation (Thailand), so I wasn't (and still quite not) able to react properly. I think I'll resume contibutions too, although I am now used to having a lot of free time that I can devote to gaming and family :)
Anyway, I was flying to vacation with Korean Air and the flight was pretty long - over 6 hrs. They have in-flight entertainment system that features movies, shows, music and games. I was even able to beat one game during the flight. My rule for contributing to MG is to add every game I've played to the database, so naturally now I wonder what category could the in-flight entertaiment games (otherwise called traditional in-seat games) fit in? It's a real platform with gamepad and whatnot so I believe it deserves to be recorded here: http://blog.apex.aero/cms/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/DTI-Software-game-2.jpg
Take a look at this one: http://dtisoftware.com/games/mojo-muncho/ - it has two platforms listed - Android and traditional in-seat. No trace of the game in Google Play though. Does this in-flight system run on Android? I don't know... I guess in-flight should be another new platform, but there's an obvious problem of very different specs for different companies and planes - just like the arcade cabinets (games for which, as I've read, we're going to be documenting eventually - yay!).
Merry Xmass everybody!
Patrick Bregger (303297) on 12/24/2013 2:55 PM · Permalink · Report
Approval suggestion: Separate escalation queues for "escalated for second opinion" and "escalated to admin".
Игги Друге (46653) on 12/25/2013 2:03 AM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Patrick Bregger wrote--]Approval suggestion: Separate escalation queues for "escalated for second opinion" and "escalated to admin". [/Q --end Patrick Bregger wrote--]
I wholeheartedly agree.
Indra was here (20752) on 12/24/2013 2:59 PM · Permalink · Report
There must be an easier way to contribute release info where you only want to submit different release versions. Same publisher/developer, only changing minor information such as the date and release comments.
Indra was here (20752) on 12/24/2013 3:15 PM · Permalink · Report
We still haven't figured out how to handle these if they're even going to be handled. I guess the rules can be relaxed a bit for these entries e.g. just copy past the official ad blurb for the description.
Don't want to be to draconian.
Indra was here (20752) on 12/24/2013 3:41 PM · Permalink · Report
A draconian policy as far as I'm concerned. This is the internet, limiting information is a really, really bad standard of practice. People just go find it elsewhere. And they do.
Rola (8482) on 12/24/2013 4:04 PM · Permalink · Report
...but that would require not just frontend update, but also database changes. Those are the ideas for the far future. Sure I'd like to be able to document those famous cancelled titles.
With new games everything is subject to change. Wikipedia can afford it, because its name is legion - with our limited manpower we can't expect approving every minor update about upcoming title!
Proof? Approvers recently rejected some of the website links I've provided because... by the time they got in their queue, the sites expired!
I'd rather see here ideas for immediate use. Like permalinks to forum posts. Lifting the 2-month-lockdown on forum threads. Etc.
Indra was here (20752) on 12/24/2013 4:30 PM · edited · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Rola wrote--]With new games everything is subject to change. Wikipedia can afford it, because its name is legion - with our limited manpower we can't expect approving every minor update about upcoming title! [/Q --end Rola wrote--]Aye. Which why you can't have new approvers when you're limiting interest of a potential target audience. Really, I shouldn't even be the one proposing this. Business management is not my major.
Indra was here (20752) on 12/24/2013 4:25 PM · edited · Permalink · Report
[Q --start chirinea wrote--]The reasoning behind not allowing unreleased games was always: it can get cancelled. On the other hand, we also thought about the possibility of having a "cancelled games" section. [/Q --end chirinea wrote--]Aye, but that's not a reasonable argument either. Considering how we present our information, the only difference would be release info and the game description. Same as upcoming games.
Not really much of a hassle really as far as contributions are concerned. The real problem would lie in its relation to the search engine/game browser, notifying that these games are either upcoming or cancelled as it would acquire additional coding. Simply accepting the possibility of upcoming or cancelled games, requires nothing complicated that must be done, except a consensus.
Indra was here (20752) on 12/24/2013 4:41 PM · Permalink · Report
True, but the interests of our users shouldn't even be ignored either, as they're the backbone of this website. Upcoming and cancelled games aren't even remotely in my bucket list. It's theirs.
CalaisianMindthief (8172) on 12/24/2013 4:12 PM · edited · Permalink · Report
Regarding upcoming games. The question is how can you document objectively a game that has not been released, based only on promotional materials that don't reflect neither (1) the current state of the code, (2) the future state of the code, nor (3) the past state of the code.
Pseudo_Intellectual (66423) on 12/24/2013 5:29 PM · Permalink · Report
Very sketchily, which is fine.
Indra was here (20752) on 12/24/2013 5:45 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start TotalAnarchy wrote--] The question is how can you document objectively a game that has not been released... [/Q --end TotalAnarchy wrote--]Simple answer, you can't. One could however, if concerned with too much hype, make whatever official material is presented sound less like a sales promotion advert. Which is basically what we do by default anyway.
At bare minimum, it would probably only mentioned planned features of the game. Which is by far more than IMDb has to offer.
Fred VT (25949) on 12/24/2013 6:08 PM · edited · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Indra is awakening... wrote--] [Q2 --start TotalAnarchy wrote--] The question is how can you document objectively a game that has not been released... [/Q2 --end TotalAnarchy wrote--]Simple answer, you can't. One could however, if concerned with too much hype, make whatever official material is presented sound less like a sales promotion advert. Which is basically what we do by default anyway.
At bare minimum, it would probably only mentioned planned features of the game. Which is by far more than IMDb has to offer. [/Q --end Indra is awakening... wrote--]
I agree that we probably have enough experience to write about upcoming games, ie:
Lightning Returns: Final Fantasy XIII is the third episode in the Final Fantasy XIII saga. It follows the story of Lightning who returns after a long period of time, having to fight her way through against various foes and even allies because of a prophecy predicting that the Savior will return to destroy the world.
The game must be completed in a limited amount of time. Lightning has access to different outfit that give her various abilities. Such outfits are often inspired from othe games, such as Final Fantasy VII and even from a cross-over scenario with Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn.
CalaisianMindthief (8172) on 12/24/2013 6:29 PM · Permalink · Report
Fortunately I'm not that strict when it comes to the real deal, but I wouldn't approve that kind of description. :p It doesn't explain what the game actually is and how it plays, and that's very important when you don't have any screens.
The reason why I'm against the inclusion of upcoming games, is that they can't be quantified or organized, details are sketchy, outcome unsure. They have no historical value, and cannot be considered part of a database. Most of the information that mobygames supplies can't be added to entries for upcoming games, such as screens, release dates, reviews, mobyranks etc. Why would such entries be interesting to anyone?
Indra was here (20752) on 12/24/2013 6:54 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start TotalAnarchy wrote--]Why would such entries be interesting to anyone? [/Q --end TotalAnarchy wrote--]If it weren't interesting, no one would have mentioned it in the forums and I wouldn't have even bothered creating an argument for it.
Different people, different interests. How many times to I have to bloody explain this?
Игги Друге (46653) on 12/25/2013 2:21 AM · Permalink · Report
One problem is that while a full game rapsheet for a released game is full of useful information, a rapsheet for an unreleased game is more or less free advertising. It doesn't exploit any of Mobygames's potential, amounting basically to the kind of information even IGN could supply.
OTOH, some kind of placeholder entry could be very useful to speed up inclusion of new games, even if it was something as basic as pre-entering a correctly spely title and preliminary release info.
The big danger is that whatever is entered for an unreleased game is left to remain for the longest time. Which is proven by all those sub-standard descriptions and release infos from Mobygames's infancy.
Indra was here (20752) on 12/25/2013 4:31 AM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Игги Друге wrote--]The big danger is that whatever is entered for an unreleased game is left to remain for the longest time. Which is proven by all those sub-standard descriptions and release infos from Mobygames's infancy. [/Q --end Игги Друге wrote--]Aye. It would be helpful if there was a way to tag them other than editing the title to Final Fantasy XXIII (Upcoming). Plus when it is released, someone will still have to play it and rewrite the description. I guess it's to be expected if a description change doesn't occur during 1-2 weeks after the game is actually released.
Or at minimum, while waiting for someone to actually play the darn thing and update the description, tweak it from future tense to present tense.
MobyReed (357) on 12/24/2013 6:03 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Indra is awakening... wrote--]We still haven't figured out how to handle these if they're even going to be handled. I guess the rules can be relaxed a bit for these entries e.g. just copy past the official ad blurb for the description.
Don't want to be to draconian. [/Q --end Indra is awakening... wrote--] Yeah, I definitely want to have unreleased games listed. And for those that get canceled, I think that's important information to have. Consider something like Starcraft Ghost. That has a long and interesting history that is not represented here. This is THE games database, it should be!
I talked about this with Brian too, to get a perspective on the origins of the policy. He agrees that unreleased games should be here too.
leilei (343) on 12/24/2013 6:08 PM · edited · Permalink · Report
The thing is, unreleased games usually are made up of hype, lies, rumors and tales which aren't very verifiable and authoritave outside of press releases, and then there's the screenshots issue since you can't really take screenshots of something cancelled (unless it's the rare case of a demo release before cancellation, such as Youngblood, or just leaked, like Batman Return of the Joker's SNES version).
Cancelled stuff should be treaded lightly, we don't want Mobygames to become a clustermess of "beta kids" that is Unseen64.
MobyReed (357) on 12/24/2013 6:48 PM · Permalink · Report
For screenshots, we could use the official ones (and tag them as such).
And maybe we'll have to limit the unreleased game listings to proven publishers/developers, so we don't get flooded with a bunch of "here's my upcoming MMO I'm making with my buddies" silliness.
Should Dark Souls II and Transistor be listed? Yeah, I absolutely think so.
Patrick Bregger (303297) on 12/24/2013 7:48 PM · edited · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Reedx wrote--]Should Dark Souls II and Transistor be listed? Yeah, I absolutely think so.[/q] Personally I am unconvinced, for the same reason why I am completely against stub game entries: They will never improve. Never! Need proof? Just look at some random entry from 1999. We will end up with tons of half-assed, useless "game" entries (because you can only create half-assed useless entries for unreleased games). I'm probably a bit negative, but all my experience (old MobyGames entries, Gamespot, Gamefaqs...) leads to this conclusion.
I think no entry is better than a bad entry. Because the incentive to make a new entry is much bigger than to invest the time to improve a bad one.
[q]And maybe we'll have to limit the unreleased game listings to proven publishers/developers, so we don't get flooded with a bunch of "here's my upcoming MMO I'm making with my buddies" silliness.[/q] This is another point I am unenthusiastic about. If you have to introduce "notability" to a feature, I don't like the feature. On of our big strengths is that we don't have a concept of "notability" outside our basic requirements (it is a game released on a platform we support); it does not matter if a game is big or small or bad or good. This is the reason why I am against supporting "notable" mods without the right infrastructure for it. All or nothing.
(For the record, I'd really like to document mods!)
Unicorn Lynx (181769) on 12/25/2013 3:34 AM · Permalink · Report
I'm all for having a special section documenting canceled games, provided they were long enough in development to be described properly.
Documenting upcoming games, on the other hand, defies the purpose of this website and turns it into yet another promotional tools for the "biggest and the baddest".
Simon Carless (1834) on 12/24/2013 8:19 PM · Permalink · Report
I'm a little more measured for these changes in the medium-term (mainly cos I'm still going 'OMG need to get through massive approval backlog :P) but I think unreleased games are a reasonable concept - IMDB has dealt with them fairly well imho. (Well, unreleased films, but you know what I mean :P)
(The concept that game stubs are inherently evil is a weird one to me also.)
However, I'm actually not a fan of Moby documenting cancelled games (unless they are seriously well segregated from everything else) because I think getting to the truth is a little tricky - and I don't think they should come up on a regular search if they do end up existing. From the little I've seen, there's often very little consensus on how and when a game was cancelled and what assets had been made for it.
Just my 2c too!
Pseudo_Intellectual (66423) on 12/25/2013 2:27 AM · Permalink · Report
I am interested in never-made-it-to-market unreleased games more than in haven't-yet-made-it-to-market ones; games that were sent to magazines to be reviewed but never ended up on store shelves, games for which we have prototypes, tech demos or betas but no final product. They help to explain gaps in the c.v.s of game devs and companies and sometimes even explain evolutionary leaps between products a and c. Well, they were working on b, but then the publisher asked them to change the main character entirely even though the game was totally complete...
Having spirited debates over whether to support them seems a bit silly inasmuch as they would still be very much a sideshow to the bulk of what is documented over here. Ultimately, 5 people will document 80 of them, and that will just be a drop in our bucket.
Starbuck the Third (22601) on 12/24/2013 8:57 PM · edited · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Reedx wrote--] Yeah, I definitely want to have unreleased games listed. And for those that get canceled, I think that's important information to have. Consider something like Starcraft Ghost. That has a long and interesting history that is not represented here. This is THE games database, it should be!
I talked about this with Brian too, to get a perspective on the origins of the policy. He agrees that unreleased games should be here too. [/Q --end Reedx wrote--]
I'd just like to put 4 points across that no one has yet that I feel need to be addressed if unreleased games are going to be documented here:
1) For me, MG is a historical games database. Why document something yet to happen?
2) Lets say, for a moment, that we start documenting upcoming games tomorrow. So I decide to add a game, lets say, for example, Watchdogs. I submit it with then accurate release info and description. But then it gets pushed back for several months and in the intervening months, features are removed and new ones added. During that several months, I forget to update the description and release information on it. No one notices, and no one there for bothers submitting accurate release info. We then have inaccurate information in the database, thus negating one of the fundamentals of MG: Quality Over Quantity.
3) Above example, only after announcing the delay, the makers decide that for what ever reason it gets cancelled. A contributor and approver have just wasted their time on a redundant entry.
4) Why? What good will it do A) us as contributors and approvers, and B) researchers using MG? Especially in the context of points 2 & 3.
Fred VT (25949) on 12/24/2013 9:37 PM · Permalink · Report
What if the upcoming game show up on the site, marked as such, but don't appear in the approvers queues before the release date? This way they would be visible, like on IMDB, but nothing would have to be done except change the info in the submission or abandon it in case it gets postponed or cancelled.
Cavalary (11448) on 12/24/2013 9:57 PM · Permalink · Report
Erm, you mean auto-approved? How's that not even worse? And how would it solve the issues of accuracy, updated info and potential loss of work if it does get canceled?
(As for Reed's suggestion about screenshots, to use the official ones, there's a standard against using any found anywhere, the official ones specifically listed there as not acceptable, and I may have issues with a fair number of standards but that seems like a very good one. Official shots are just another form of ad blurb really, plus that you see them everywhere. Was actually wondering at some point while submitting ranks why the hell don't reviewers actually add their own shots to add some credibility to the review, show they actually played the game, because I kept seeing the same ones in dozens of places. We don't do that, here we show that an actual user actually played that game and took some time to take some shots for this site.)
MobyReed (357) on 12/24/2013 11:30 PM · edited · Permalink · Report
[Q --start havoc of smeg wrote--] I'd just like to put 4 points across that no one has yet that I feel need to be addressed if unreleased games are going to be documented here:
1) For me, MG is a historical games database. Why document something yet to happen?
2) Lets say, for a moment, that we start documenting upcoming games tomorrow. So I decide to add a game, lets say, for example, Watchdogs. I submit it with then accurate release info and description. But then it gets pushed back for several months and in the intervening months, features are removed and new ones added. During that several months, I forget to update the description and release information on it. No one notices, and no one there for bothers submitting accurate release info. We then have inaccurate information in the database, thus negating one of the fundamentals of MG: Quality Over Quantity.
3) Above example, only after announcing the delay, the makers decide that for what ever reason it gets cancelled. A contributor and approver have just wasted their time on a redundant entry.
4) Why? What good will it do A) us as contributors and approvers, and B) researchers using MG? Especially in the context of points 2 & 3. [/Q --end havoc of smeg wrote--] Fair points, and good thoughts!
I think MG serves a more broad purpose than a "released games database" (and so does at least one of the founders). It's an authoritative games database. Dark Souls II, Watchdogs, Starbound... these games very much exist. And people are looking for information on them.
Additionally, maybe someone thinks Dark Souls II has been released or simply wondering if it has or not. So they come to MobyGames, search for it, and notta. Wait, where it is? So now they go to GameSpot or something and find the information they were seeking. In the future, won't they be more inclined to go straight to GameSpot? MG failed them last time.
Instead, I think you should be able to go to MG and reliably find information on virtually every game you could possibly think of. And yes, accurate information. Maybe the listing can only have a few components (e.g., release date, publisher, developer and short blurb) to keep it manageable.
Great point on the ephemeral nature of the data during prerelease (although this is increasingly true of many released games too - MMOs especially). Given the current status of the database, I agree with you. However, my hope/goal is that we'll get this under control and improve the contribution -> approval flow well enough that this will be much less of a concern.
Cavalary (11448) on 12/25/2013 12:02 AM · Permalink · Report
Well, MG failed them last time and it may well be expected to continue to do so, as it usually has throughout what I know of its history, if they're looking for "news". There are thousands, and that is likely a gross understatement, of sites where game-related news and information on current / near-future big releases can be found, plenty of them are well-established, it's a losing battle for Moby, and one that will drain even more resources that aren't available in the first place.
And, either way, GameSpot has a paid staff, and also receives all sorts of information straight from the source, are seeked out for stories at times. MobyGames doesn't. MobyGames relies on a double volunteer system, both to seek out and submit information and to verify it. So there was that thing, about needing to pick two between good, fast and cheap. Well, what we have here isn't even cheap, it's free, and most contributors and approvers do their best to make it good. I'd call that more than 2 out of 3 already.
However, there's another angle here. What we have, different from those thousands of sites, besides potentially hard-to-find information on old and/or obscure titles, are credits, right? So if this needs to be done, how about we tackle this angle? Will require changes to the code, but upcoming or canceled titles could be looked at from the point of view of "what is this developer working on now?" (or has worked on in the past, besides what can be otherwise more easily learned) Leave the game info aside, maybe put some links to where that information can be learned from if it's not released yet (which may give people some incentive to look here anyway), just create dummy entries connected to the credits (however many names can be determined, I mean), nothing else required (though of course more information will be welcome, but only if it'll meet the neutrality and quality criteria), and if it's an upcoming game and a planned release date is added after all, there could be an alert system to give it high priority to fill the entry further once that date hits.
MobyReed (357) on 12/25/2013 1:10 AM · edited · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Cavalary wrote--]Well, MG failed them last time and it may well be expected to continue to do so, as it usually has throughout what I know of its history, if they're looking for "news". There are thousands, and that is likely a gross understatement, of sites where game-related news and information on current / near-future big releases can be found, plenty of them are well-established, it's a losing battle for Moby, and one that will drain even more resources that aren't available in the first place.
And, either way, GameSpot has a paid staff, and also receives all sorts of information straight from the source, are seeked out for stories at times. MobyGames doesn't. MobyGames relies on a double volunteer system, both to seek out and submit information and to verify it. So there was that thing, about needing to pick two between good, fast and cheap. Well, what we have here isn't even cheap, it's free, and most contributors and approvers do their best to make it good. I'd call that more than 2 out of 3 already.
However, there's another angle here. What we have, different from those thousands of sites, besides potentially hard-to-find information on old and/or obscure titles, are credits, right? So if this needs to be done, how about we tackle this angle? Will require changes to the code, but upcoming or canceled titles could be looked at from the point of view of "what is this developer working on now?" (or has worked on in the past, besides what can be otherwise more easily learned) Leave the game info aside, maybe put some links to where that information can be learned from if it's not released yet (which may give people some incentive to look here anyway), just create dummy entries connected to the credits (however many names can be determined, I mean), nothing else required (though of course more information will be welcome, but only if it'll meet the neutrality and quality criteria), and if it's an upcoming game and a planned release date is added after all, there could be an alert system to give it high priority to fill the entry further once that date hits. [/Q --end Cavalary wrote--] Very true, but you could also say the same thing about reviews (which MetaCritic is better at) and tips/walkthroughs (which GameFaqs is better at), right?
In any case, I'm not saying they should come here looking for news, I don't (and what it should have is another whole discussion--maybe it's simply the title and status), but I do think that MG not having any information on Dark Souls II or Starbound isn't a good thing for the largest games database on the web. I feel that it undermines the premise.
Another aspect to this is that it puts MG at a disadvantage in search engines. Google traffic here is very poor. Surprisingly so. There are a number of reasons for this, but not having a game until well after release hurts.
And yeah, I like the idea of being able to see what a developer is working on now. Or at least where they are working at. It could even just be something that they keep updated on their profile, and is perhaps automatically reflected on their rap sheet. Just thinking out loud. :)
Thanks for all the feedback so far, keep it coming!
Fred VT (25949) on 12/25/2013 1:23 AM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Reedx wrote--]And yeah, I like the idea of being able to see what a developer is working on now. Or at least where they are working at. It could even just be something that they keep updated on their profile, and is perhaps automatically reflected on their rap sheet. Just thinking out loud. :) [/Q --end Reedx wrote--]
Having a developer to company link show on each developer's page is something that we should have. I believe our credits/developer listing is or can be one of MG's major assets, and we have some very dedicated and experienced people working on credits here (Yeah, I'm talking about Jotaro Raido mostly ;P). Being unable to see where who worked doing what job within what time period doesn't help in that area...
We are comparing MG to IMDB after all, at their credits listing is also one of their forte...
Cavalary (11448) on 12/25/2013 1:56 AM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Reedx wrote--] Very true, but you could also say the same thing about reviews (which MetaCritic is better at) and tips/walkthroughs (which GameFaqs is better at), right? [/Q] We have very few tips/walkthroughs here, and "people who're looking for those go to GameFAQs anyway" regularly popped up in conversation whenever the topic was brought ip. As for ranks, if you check the top contributors per year there you'll see that barely a few submit those regularly. I'm one of them, though far below the top 2 now, but I'm not trying to compete with Metacritic here on speed. When I submit, I either pick a site (either an older one or, more commonly in previous years, a new one I just submitted as source myself, preferably if not noticed regularly on MC / GameRankings) and submit all they have that's also in the database, or (again more commonly in previous years, this year what I did focused on sites) submit all I find on a game. But in this latter case it won't be a major new game quickly after release, but either an older one that I see has few or a newer but lesser known title. Rarely get it into my head to trudge through, say, a Portal 2 or a Skyrim, and either way I never submitted anything less than 2 months after release. Just want to go through the lists once after all, not need to check and update again every day or week till the lists settle down. (Assume the process is at least somewhat automated for Metacritic?)
[Q] Google traffic here is very poor. Surprisingly so. There are a number of reasons for this, but not having a game until well after release hurts. [/Q --end Reedx wrote--] Well, depends on what search terms you're aiming to improve the ranking for. Even if we did have the major titles on release day, I doubt we'll end up on the first page in the foreseeable future when the 'net will be flooded with information of the game in question at the time and Google doesn't "know" MG as a particularly relevant site when it comes to such titles. There's a fair amount of inertia there, even if things will drastically change.
Pseudo_Intellectual (66423) on 12/25/2013 2:18 AM · Permalink · Report
The SEO is conspicuous. There are games I have documented here which received their first appearance in the Google index thanks to my documentation here, and now when Googling them our entry doesn't even rank on the top page, even though all the other sites' returns are empty placeholders.
vileyn0id_8088 (21040) on 12/25/2013 3:57 AM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Pseudo_Intellectual wrote--]The SEO is conspicuous. There are games I have documented here which received their first appearance in the Google index thanks to my documentation here, and now when Googling them our entry doesn't even rank on the top page, even though all the other sites' returns are empty placeholders. [/Q --end Pseudo_Intellectual wrote--] I don't know if there's a viable way to fight this, given how rampant this phenomenon is across the internet as a whole. Alas, it appears that the Church of Contentinople and its Copy-Pastors have successfully established global SEOcracy.
Daniel Saner (3503) on 12/25/2013 5:47 PM · edited · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Reedx wrote--]Dark Souls II, Watchdogs, Starbound... these games very much exist. And people are looking for information on them.[/Q --end Reedx wrote--]
Yes, but the problem remains that the absolutely only source of information is the completely un-objective official one. There is nothing else. Any other place you can find information about these games, they got them from the same official sources. In other words, we'd have nothing to offer people that not every other site does as well. And as Cavalry said, we will never be able to compete with them (nor I think would any of us want to). We're a community specialised on digging and researching, archiving, documenting and checking. We're not a newsroom streamlined to high-speed copy-writing of press releases, which is what documenting unreleased games is all about.
Actually, I can think of several ways to independently verify the official information, but all of them involve breaking several laws.
If they are to be represented just to be mentioned (I agree with some of the reasons on that side of the argument), I agree with havoc and Indra that they should be very separate entities that are in no way treated as actual game database entries. Information should be minimal, and at every point clearly marked as non-objective marketing information that is subject to change (and might have already, but not been updated yet).
IMDb says for pre-release entries: "Because this project is categorized as being in production, the data is subject to change; some data could be removed completely." Again with the difference that they have a dedicated, paid news team that gets its info directly from the studios and updates it immediately – we don't.
Indra was here (20752) on 12/25/2013 6:01 AM · edited · Permalink · Report
See how easy it is to incite the nerds here into a flamewar? That's why we hang out in MobyGames. Fun times. :)
Since I started this mess (which I usually do), I'll summarize it for you guys.
Proposal - Upcoming Games
In the digital age, the internet provides information about practically anything. This also includes games not yet released. Merchandise that has not been released has proven to be an important source for the market. This is true for mostly every other field of other industries, including movies, books, fashion, automobile, military, etc. There is a segment of the population that is extremely interested in any information however minimal provided, of such products. Usually for the purposes that (a) they are made aware that such a product is in the works (b) are updated to the current status of mentioned product.
Hence, MobyGames as a database, should start considering if they are worth documenting. Especially as two of the largest internet databases such as Wikipedia and IMDb already provide such information for their respected fields.
Purpose
- Will provide awareness and information to users of upcoming games.
- Will make MobyGames more flexible in documenting anything about games. Hence a larger proportion of interest towards this database.
- Will encourage new users who may have a hobby or professional interest in documenting these entries.
Issues
- Concerns of low quality entries: If unreleased, there is no way to verify if the information provided is true.
- Concerns of low quality entries: Information would likely be from official publisher/developer sources, hence the entry will sound more like advertising and hype.
- Concerns of low quality entries: That the entry be more of a placeholder name with too little information to be of significant interest to anyone.
- Concerns of entry stagnation: When released, that the entry remains unchanged.
- Concerns to entry cancellation: That the entry will be one day canceled, making the entry redundant.
- Concerns of human resources: It will add more burden to approvers.
Database Incorporation Feasibility
- At bare minimum, does not require too much coding requirements (except providing the option for release info: TBA/NA/future year).
- Such entries may be tagged with by adding Upcoming Title or its equivalent to its title, to distinguish it from normal entries.
Recommendations
- Firstly, it should be stressed that an Upcoming Game entry is not a normal entry. Thus, should not be treated as one.
- As a new type of special entry, then there needs to be a new set of guidelines that are unique to handling these types of entries.
- This guideline should also address the expected/required minimal of quality and content, to avoid clustering of near empty or uninformative entries.
Solutions
The following is a proposed guideline in handling Upcoming Game entries, which may or may not address some of the issues aforementioned and is subject to change:
- Submission Requirements
An Upcoming Game submission must fulfill the following minimal requirements before being considered qualified as an entry:- An identifiable release date, may it refer to a specified month or year. A TBA (to be announced) release date should be avoided.
- An identifiable platform it will be released on.
- A brief description or summary identifying a story/theme, genre, and game mechanics.
- A list of features promised by the developer or from an official source.
- A list of features already implemented by the developer or from an official source.
- At least one screenshot from an official source that identifies gameplay. Conceptual art shots are strictly prohibited. Captions should identify that the screenshot is an official promotional shot during development.
- Entry Requirements
If the submission fulfills the aforementioned submission requirements, then the following steps must be followed before being approved:- The title to renamed to the following: [Game Title] (Upcoming Title). Example: Final Fantasy XXV (Upcoming Title)
- The game description entry must add the following disclaimer in its first paragraph in italics: The following game is an upcoming game title. MobyGames makes no guarantees to the accuracy of the information provided here as an upcoming title. The information was presented here from an official source, namely the developer or publisher. For further information, visit the official website of the game, developer, or publisher.
- The game description entry must be tweaked to be content neutral, removing any instances of hyperbole commonly found in advertising/marketing language.
- The official website of the game or developer page should be hyperlinked at the bottom of the game description. The related links section should be ignored at this time. Examples:
Official Website: www.mobygames.com
Official Development Page: www.mobygames.com
*Note that this is the most restrictive requirement proposed. Some of the requirements may be unfeasible and is open for debate.
(c) 2013. Me.
There. Bite me. Why I don't waste my time working on research grants is beyond me.
MZ per X (3017) on 12/25/2013 8:16 AM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Indra is awakening... wrote--] Issues
- Concerns of low quality entries: If unreleased, there is no way to verify if the information provided is true.
- Concerns of low quality entries: Information would likely be from official publisher/developer sources, hence the entry will sound more like advertising and hype.
- Concerns of low quality entries: That the entry be more of a placeholder name with too little information to be of significant interest to anyone.
- Concerns of entry stagnation: When released, that the entry remains unchanged.
- Concerns to entry cancellation: That the entry will be one day canceled, making the entry redundant.[/Q --end Indra is awakening... wrote--] Let the contributors take responsibility for it, i. e. automatically send back such entries every six months for an update. [Q --start Indra is awakening... wrote--] Concerns of human resources: It will add more burden to approvers. [/Q --end Indra is awakening... wrote--] Yes, definitely. BTW the site's spell checker doesn't know the word "approvers". What does that tell us? :-P
Игги Друге (46653) on 12/25/2013 9:00 AM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start MZ per X wrote--] BTW the site's spell checker doesn't know the word "approvers". What does that tell us? :-P [/Q --end MZ per X wrote--]
That the interface to add words to the spell checker is broken.
Cavalary (11448) on 12/25/2013 11:05 AM · Permalink · Report
Well, that's quite something.
Still against the idea of documenting upcoming titles though (except in the way I suggested, dummy entries linked to credits to show what a person's working on - and that's a stretch too, but just looking for something that other sites don't do, if we absolutely MUST expand). The workload is the issue I definitely don't see a solution for, not without a drop in quality, and that's already a huge problem even with what we do cover now.
Also, still clearly oppose using official screenshots. If a user played a pre-release build, shots from that should be added, but official ones, gah! Still, again, if it absolutely MUST be done, noting that I will complain about it all the time, they must at least be marked the same way as the description and automatically deleted (wth? I can't underline?) upon game release. And the listed promised features need to be moved to trivia upon game release, to be checked against what was actually delivered. If anything doesn't match, that part will be left in trivia while the rest will be incorporated into the post-release description.
Indra was here (20752) on 12/25/2013 12:56 PM · Permalink · Report
Deletion of official screenshots would be logical when it is released.
Kabushi (261374) on 12/25/2013 3:05 PM · Permalink · Report
I think it would interesting to keep them as comparison with how the games actually looks, especially those that are from early phases of development. For example when Halo was still a Mac exclusive RTS.
Of course they have to be properly marked as promotional.
Indra was here (20752) on 12/25/2013 4:26 PM · Permalink · Report
Updating guidelines.
Foxhack (32099) on 12/25/2013 6:47 PM · Permalink · Report
There are thousands of sites out there that already deal with upcoming, unreleased games.
There's absolutely no reason for MobyGames to cover them. None.
The site users don't come here for rumors and prerelease photos. They come here for concrete information on games.
Игги Друге (46653) on 12/25/2013 2:14 AM · Permalink · Report
Make screenshots numbered in steps of 10, i.e. 10-20-30-40 for easy reordering.
Make it possible to submit everything you can submit when entering a new game while adding an additional platform. Right now, you can add credits, ratings, rankings and so on while adding a new game, but not when adding a new platform to an existing game.
Make it possible to approve a new game entry in its entirety at once, including credits and ad blurbs, instead of first approving the main game entry and then looking for other information supplied at the same time in other queues.
Screenshot submission help text should be system-specific.
Highlight screenshots without description so you can find them when sorting through 20 or 30 images.
vileyn0id_8088 (21040) on 12/25/2013 3:49 AM · Permalink · Report
Strong agree with all of the above - the second and third points should receive special priority, IMO.
[Q --start Игги Друге wrote--]Make screenshots numbered in steps of 10, i.e. 10-20-30-40 for easy reordering.[/Q --end Игги Друге wrote--] Yep - if BASIC taught me anything, it's this.
Indra was here (20752) on 12/25/2013 5:04 AM · Permalink · Report
Also allow users (e.g. me :p) a feature to re-arrange users. Thus far only approvers can re-arrange screenshots and even then via a bogus screenshot entry workaround.
Seeing the main title lumped in the middle ordering does not bode well for my insides.
Also, screenshot caption corrections via normal approval queue, not via admin corrections. A revise tool similar to game descriptions.
Игги Друге (46653) on 12/25/2013 6:00 AM · Permalink · Report
Also, allow for bulk upload of text using a pre-formated template or helper app. We can already upload 30 screenshots in a single zip file, how about uploading a preformated text file with their descriptions, or why not 50 rankings in one go?
Daniel Saner (3503) on 12/25/2013 5:40 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Indra is awakening... wrote--]Also allow users (e.g. me :p) a feature to re-arrange users.[/Q --end Indra is awakening... wrote--]
I won't let you re-arrange me!
Indra was here (20752) on 12/25/2013 5:59 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Daniel Saner wrote--] [Q2 --start Indra is awakening... wrote--]Also allow users (e.g. me :p) a feature to re-arrange users. [/Q2 --end Indra is awakening... wrote--] I won't let you re-arrange me! [/Q --end Daniel Saner wrote--] Oops. My megalomania is getting the better of me. :p
Starbuck the Third (22601) on 12/25/2013 11:31 AM · Permalink · Report
One way we could get around the quality issues surrounding both upcoming and cancelled games is to have a secondary database of sorts, still part of MG, but where it's clear that they are unreleased or cancelled. With unreleased games, the system could flag them up in the approval queue, and if all is well, it gets transferred to the primary database.
On a different note, wouldn't mind seeing the dictionary used in the new game wizard to be updated. It's weird when a spellchecker for a game site doesn't recognise things like 'Xbox', 'Blu-ray' and 'multiplayer'.
SGruber (3811) on 12/25/2013 3:06 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start havoc of smeg wrote--]One way we could get around the quality issues surrounding both upcoming and cancelled games is to have a secondary database of sorts, still part of MG, but where it's clear that they are unreleased or cancelled. With unreleased games, the system could flag them up in the approval queue, and if all is well, it gets transferred to the primary database. [/Q --end havoc of smeg wrote--]
The Star Trek fan wiki has this. They have Memory Alpha for the canon movie/TV show stuff, memory beta for expanded universe/ slash fiction etc... Therefore, just about everything is covered, but the "main site" isn't flooded by "random/weird" information.
Something similar would fit in here quite nicely. Especially for cancelled games that got along quite a bit or received a lot of media attention. (OMF beta, Starcraft Ghost) there should be something on Moby.
majutsushi (467) on 12/26/2013 1:54 AM · Permalink · Report
There are some areas where in my opinion the site should become much less US centric. For example, the current policy of listing all games under their US release titles is not just confusing for everyone not from the US (i.e. most of the world), but it also leads to plain wrong situations.
Take the Japanese game Langrisser as an example. The Mega Drive port also had a release in the US under the title Warsong, and that is what the game is listed under. But if you look at the PC Engine CD version page it is still listed under that US Mega Drive title, even though the PC Engine version has never been released under that title or in the US at all. In addition the platform is listed as TurboGrafx CD, the US name of the PC Engine CD, which is also wrong in this case. So there really should be a better way to handle these kinds of situations.
j.raido 【雷堂嬢太朗】 (100156) on 12/26/2013 6:51 PM · edited · Permalink · Report
It's been suggested to link titles with releases, so that when you look at a particular release, the correct titles for that release are shown. I imagine the same could be applied to platforms that had different names in different regions. It would also eliminate the (admittedly uncommon) cases where a game is entered under its international title before a US release is announced, then it releases there with a different title and we have to change it later.
I also find it rather silly that you refer to it as the "US Mega Drive" release when commenting on incorrect regional names. ;)
Indra was here (20752) on 12/27/2013 2:08 AM · Permalink · Report
The US oriented title priority will have to go sooner or later. Give credit where credit is due i.e. original country of release.
SGruber (3811) on 12/26/2013 9:42 AM · Permalink · Report
Anybody thought about adding a soundtrack section into the Rap Sheet? Might be pointless for all those PC speaker games, but many games in recent times not only have proper track listings ingame but also full fledged soundtracks released. (Indie Music bundle comes to mind)
I think at least soundtrack releases should be covered with track listing and running time.
Foxhack (32099) on 12/26/2013 6:38 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start SGruber wrote--]Anybody thought about adding a soundtrack section into the Rap Sheet? Might be pointless for all those PC speaker games, but many games in recent times not only have proper track listings ingame but also full fledged soundtracks released. (Indie Music bundle comes to mind)
I think at least soundtrack releases should be covered with track listing and running time. [/Q --end SGruber wrote--]
... I think it would be better to link to VGMdb.
j.raido 【雷堂嬢太朗】 (100156) on 12/26/2013 6:58 PM · Permalink · Report
Seconded. They already handle this much better than we ever could with a hacked-in side feature.
If you really want to note that a game got a soundtrack release, trivia seems like a perfectly fine place to mention that; no need to expand our scope further.
Игги Друге (46653) on 12/26/2013 7:39 PM · Permalink · Report
Isn't VGMdb only for soundtracks released on CD?
For C64 games, links to HVSC and STIL are probably a better alternative, and likewise with ExoticA for Amiga games.
Nevertheless, Mobygames is a really bad internet citizen. Other databases are not competitors — they're colleagues. Links to Generation MSX, HOL, Wikipedia and C64db should be easy to generate semi-automatically, and would result in goodwill.
Rola (8482) on 12/26/2013 10:13 PM · edited · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Игги Друге wrote--]and would result in goodwill. [/Q --end Игги Друге wrote--] ...especially from Wikipedia ;D
I'm also voting for linking to VGMdb.
Speaking of overloaded trivia entries, we could use a separate "awards" section.
Foxhack (32099) on 12/26/2013 11:25 PM · edited · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Игги Друге wrote--]Isn't VGMdb only for soundtracks released on CD? [/Q --end Игги Друге wrote--] Not for a while, no. They catalogue physical and digital releases of all kinds.
They also expanded into anime music some time ago, but you can hide those results in your searches.
Игги Друге (46653) on 12/27/2013 5:10 AM · Permalink · Report
By digital releases, do you mean packs of MP3 files? If so, it's not the same thing as the track list of the game, which may only be available in the sound test.
Foxhack (32099) on 12/27/2013 1:24 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Игги Друге wrote--]By digital releases, do you mean packs of MP3 files? If so, it's not the same thing as the track list of the game, which may only be available in the sound test. [/Q --end Игги Друге wrote--]MP3s? What is this, the year 2000? Music publishers now even distribute files in FLAC / ALAC or even lossless WAVs.
I... honestly haven't really seen many games that have in-game tracklists recently. Huh.
Игги Друге (46653) on 12/27/2013 3:30 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Foxhack wrote--] I... honestly haven't really seen many games that have in-game tracklists recently. Huh. [/Q --end Foxhack wrote--]
I have never really cared about anything recent.
Foxhack (32099) on 12/27/2013 7:57 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Игги Друге wrote--] [Q2 --start Foxhack wrote--] I... honestly haven't really seen many games that have in-game tracklists recently. Huh. [/Q2 --end Foxhack wrote--]
I have never really cared about anything recent. [/Q --end Игги Друге wrote--]I meant in old or new games. I haven't seen anything with in-game tracklists other than The King of Fighters XIII Steam Edition.
Игги Друге (46653) on 12/28/2013 5:09 AM · Permalink · Report
Two examples I can think of are Turrican II and Aleste.
SGruber (3811) on 12/26/2013 9:43 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Foxhack wrote--] ... I think it would be better to link to VGMdb. [/Q --end Foxhack wrote--]
Even better. Wasn't there some kind of similar cooperation with Replacement Docs? Can't seem to find it now. Was it removed after the GF deal?
Personally I think there should be a note on the rap sheet about music (which could link to the VGMdb or another fitting archive. (and -maybe- list tracks not listed on those OSTs. Or at mention them as incomplete, depending on how feasible that is). I think soundtrack information would be "buried" under the trivia section and would fit better as a point on the rap sheet. VG music seems to become more prominent with "Soundtrack editions" becoming more and more available on Steam and the Humble Store/Widget. And it feels lacking on MG.
Kabushi (261374) on 12/26/2013 9:50 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start SGruber wrote--] Wasn't there some kind of similar cooperation with Replacement Docs? Can't seem to find it now. Was it removed after the GF deal? [/Q --end SGruber wrote--] Long before. It never worked out at all on our end, although they linked to us.
Starbuck the Third (22601) on 12/26/2013 11:05 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Kabushi wrote--] [Q2 --start SGruber wrote--] Wasn't there some kind of similar cooperation with Replacement Docs? Can't seem to find it now. Was it removed after the GF deal? [/Q2 --end SGruber wrote--] Long before. It never worked out at all on our end, although they linked to us. [/Q --end Kabushi wrote--]
So on that note, start documenting manual scans?
Indra was here (20752) on 12/27/2013 2:11 AM · Permalink · Report
Would be better if we re-established cooperation with replacement docs.
Daniel Saner (3503) on 12/27/2013 2:57 AM · Permalink · Report
Which incidentally is another game-related site I was afraid would die soon, but was "revived" 3 days before MobyGames. Although there, all it took was a new approver.
And people were likely to find out about it the same way: being e-mailed about submissions being processed that were idle for months or years.
Indra was here (20752) on 12/27/2013 5:39 AM · Permalink · Report
They don't cover all types of documentation though. We still could cover developer changelog files, which technically is more of our concern anyway, especially patch release info and its descriptions to identify game features.
These 'always under development' indie games are a pain to update and they're already released. cough
SGruber (3811) on 12/27/2013 8:33 AM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Indra is awakening... wrote--] These 'always under development' indie games are a pain to update and they're already released. cough [/Q --end Indra is awakening... wrote--]
That reminds me, what is the state of Steam early access or purchasable alpha/betas (humble, kickstarter, whatever)?
It looks like those aren't on the site. Maybe we should rethink about how those are added. If the Fallout 2 boxed version is considered a release version, then half of the Early Access game should ;-). But seriously, many games seem to be in some perpetual beta despite being more playable then half of what I got in '98 on release (Xenonauts comes to mind) and even have a release date thanks to Steam early access or the Humble Store/Widget. Leaving them off the site seems to be an artificial restriction.
(Also, new game group: "Steam early access game".)
Sciere (930964) on 12/27/2013 8:59 AM · edited · Permalink · Report
Early Access games are already on the site (see Akaneiro: Demon Hunters) because they are products that need to be paid for and are commercialized through Steam. Other types of betas and alphas generally less so, those need to wait out the final release, so it's not consistent. It's mainly to shut a floodgate of any unfinished or started game, Steam acts as a buffer that way.
Browser beta games are allowed because most never go out of beta because of legal reasons (liability).
Patrick Bregger (303297) on 12/27/2013 9:22 AM · edited · Permalink · Report
Well, Akaneiro is special because Early Access was introduced after its first release outside Steam. It was not labeled as beta or similar when I added it originally, just the usual "we keep working on it" blabla. However, my personal opinion is that every game which can be in played officially in exchange for money (including games with in-game shops) is free game, no matter how they call it. This includes mods optionally distributed for money, even if it is just the cost price for CD shipping.
My only concern is that the description is bound to be outdated when the game is released proper. This is probably not a big issue for beta games (=polish), but certainly for alpha Early Access games which only have the framework. But on the other hand, even games marked as "released" have substantial content updates over time, especially browser and digitally distributed freeware games. Not to speak of MMOs changing their business model to free-to-play...
Indra was here (20752) on 12/27/2013 10:14 AM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Patrick Bregger wrote--]My only concern is that the description is bound to be outdated when the game is released proper. Not to speak of MMOs changing their business model to free-to-play... [/Q --end Patrick Bregger wrote--] Outdated descriptions is unavoidable as an online database. Especially for online games or other games that allow tremendous update features via patches. Thinking we can solve this problem with restrictive rules is naive at best.
MobyReed (357) on 12/27/2013 8:14 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Indra is awakening... wrote--] Outdated descriptions is unavoidable as an online database. Especially for online games or other games that allow tremendous update features via patches. Thinking we can solve this problem with restrictive rules is naive at best. [/Q --end Indra is awakening... wrote--] Yeah, and this is only going to become increasingly true as more and more games function as services. Games in the 90s mostly didn't change once released. But modern games change frequently, and sometimes for years beyond release. We need better tools and pipeline to help ensure things get updated.
Indra was here (20752) on 12/27/2013 8:35 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Reedx wrote--]We need better tools and pipeline to help ensure things get updated. [/Q --end Reedx wrote--]I don't actually think there is feasibly way to that, other than having more nerds working on the database (which means new features to make them interested). From a programming point of view, the only thing that comes to mind is to tag all those 'forever in alpha/beta development stage', so users would be aware to check on them once in awhile. Never mind, that sounds like a bad idea.
Also, showing the latest game version+patch and its release date on file (in addition to the original release) of the game on the main page might help to encourage users curious enough to do a follow up check. Also helps to have the official game website on the main page too, while users are clicking furiously on the 'random game' link.
searches brain
Yeah, that's all I can think of right now.
SGruber (3811) on 12/27/2013 9:35 PM · Permalink · Report
One possibility would be to have "godfathers" for certain online games. As in contributors that play the game and are willing to do constant updates. Or, if that is wanted from both sides, maybe ask the developers to chip in. Especially change logs from the source would be immensely helpful.
Which is, in the end, what I did (and currently start doing to again). Not searching the database for wholes, but always checking what can be added for the game I am currently playing.
SGruber (3811) on 12/27/2013 9:42 AM · Permalink · Report
Several of my early access game searches didn't show any results, which is why I thought they aren't on the site in general. And I just checked Xenonauts with the "add game" wizard and it seems that it isn't even in the approval queue. Should I start adding Steam early access games then?
Indra was here (20752) on 12/27/2013 10:06 AM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start SGruber wrote--] That reminds me, what is the state of Steam early access or purchasable alpha/betas. [/Q --end SGruber wrote--] I'm one of the dudes adding them (well, Steam releases only). Downloaded a few dozen early access games during the strike and have since only added two (pending).
Duplicating release/patch info is really becoming a bother.
Foxhack (32099) on 12/27/2013 1:22 PM · edited · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Indra is awakening... wrote--]They don't cover all types of documentation though. We still could cover developer changelog files, which technically is more of our concern anyway, especially patch release info and its descriptions to identify game features.
These 'always under development' indie games are a pain to update and they're already released. cough [/Q --end Indra is awakening... wrote--]Steam's changelog archives are broken as hell. They lost a few months' worth of news posts because of a server crash and they never fixed the missing information.
That and they change game IDs so the news search sometimes doesn't even bring up the correct release date or game information.
And they now tell devs to throw their changelogs in their official Steam Community groups.
Blargh.
Ghost 81 (57) on 12/27/2013 5:39 AM · Permalink · Report
Thank you for rolling back to the old layout, it's simply much more research-friendly. I've been using this site for longer than I can remember, it's priceless.
I have a few suggestions, if I may:
One of the positive things the redesign did was adding a few more refinement parameters to the game browser. Either I can't find them anymore or they are no longer there and I think they would make searches much easier:
-
Perpective (first person, third person, isometric, top-down...), this one is a must have
-
Real time/turn based was also important for RTS games
a few new ones that would be nice:
-
Male/female protagonist
-
Single character/multiple characters
-
Human/non human protagonist
Thanks for your hard work and keep it up!
Daniel Saner (3503) on 12/27/2013 8:23 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Ghost Sniper wrote--]Either I can't find them anymore or they are no longer there and I think they would make searches much easier:
-
Perpective (first person, third person, isometric, top-down...), this one is a must have
-
Real time/turn based was also important for RTS games[/Q --end Ghost Sniper wrote--]
They're both still there. Real-time and turn-based are under the brilliantly named "non-sports themes" category. You may have to click "view complete list" in the header.
The perspectives tend to only show up, after you have already selected a few other filters, e.g. a platform and a genre. This might have been different in the new design. It seems you can't just hack in the parameter into the URL manually. If the selection wouldn't have shown up on itself, it will just redirect you back to a URL without the perspective filter.
Ghost 81 (57) on 12/29/2013 5:09 AM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Daniel Saner wrote--] [Q2 --start Ghost Sniper wrote--]Either I can't find them anymore or they are no longer there and I think they would make searches much easier:
-
Perpective (first person, third person, isometric, top-down...), this one is a must have
-
Real time/turn based was also important for RTS games [/Q2 --end Ghost Sniper wrote--]
They're both still there. Real-time and turn-based are under the brilliantly named "non-sports themes" category. You may have to click "view complete list" in the header.
The perspectives tend to only show up, after you have already selected a few other filters, e.g. a platform and a genre. This might have been different in the new design. It seems you can't just hack in the parameter into the URL manually. If the selection wouldn't have shown up on itself, it will just redirect you back to a URL without the perspective filter. [/Q --end Daniel Saner wrote--] Nice, thanks for the heads-up. Unfortunately it is as you say: perspective only appears sometimes. It would be nice if the process of finding and adding those parameters were streamlined a bit. It would also help if the "action" genre were split, as it is too generic.
Indra was here (20752) on 12/27/2013 9:05 PM · Permalink · Report
Only one we don't have is single character/multiple characters. Male and human are considered default unless there's a game group stating otherwise.
The perspective genre is sorely incomplete. I'm still unsure if a game should be tagged as third person, when it's already tagged with something else (e.g. top-down, side-scrolling, etc).
My kingdom for a world view (or whatever it's called) for meine strategy games. Top-down is just plain misleading.
Foxhack (32099) on 12/27/2013 1:20 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start leilei wrote--]Official icons as part of the cover art or possibly usable for the game browser (in 16x16 size)?
It would apply to Windows, Mac, and possibly Playstation and NDS games.
[/Q --end leilei wrote--]Fun fact: That has been planned for years. Some approvers even have icon archives ready to go.
It just never went live.
Indra was here (20752) on 12/27/2013 1:40 PM · Permalink · Report
Mine accidentally got deleted. About a hundred icons puff. -_-
Indra was here (20752) on 12/27/2013 1:05 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start GTramp wrote--]I would really like to see some sort of 'games you may also like...' feature on a game's rap sheet. Could be either automatically selected by genre or user-chosen similar games. [/Q --end GTramp wrote--]I suggested it, experimental phase rejected by approvers. Tried using game variants instead, but that requires a lot of research and getting game groups through now is nigh impossible. So, no go.
Indra was here (20752) on 12/27/2013 1:10 PM · Permalink · Report
Hell, if there was a feature for user created game groups similar to IMDb, I'd be working my arse off creating game groups for myself that other users could look at. Rather than spend countless hours researching game groups, suggesting it, and be indefinitely ignored.
is_that_rain_or_tears (634) on 12/27/2013 5:43 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Indra is awakening... wrote--]Hell, if there was a feature for user created game groups similar to IMDb, I'd be working my arse off creating game groups for myself that other users could look at. Rather than spend countless hours researching game groups, suggesting it, and be indefinitely ignored. [/Q --end Indra is awakening... wrote--]
Same here. Users should be allowed to submit new game groups. Really. Especially since group suggestions customarily get ignored by who should hear :).
Daniel Saner (3503) on 12/27/2013 8:27 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Indra is awakening... wrote--]Hell, if there was a feature for user created game groups similar to IMDb, I'd be working my arse off creating game groups for myself that other users could look at. Rather than spend countless hours researching game groups, suggesting it, and be indefinitely ignored. [/Q --end Indra is awakening... wrote--]
This is near the top of my list of "features that IMDb or Discogs has and that I think MobyGames should steal", right after keywords. It's probably the easiest of the bunch to implement as well. It's a separate, additional feature that should require only minimal changes to existing code, and doesn't have to do much more than make lists of links to games. Really not much different from what have/want lists already do.
I want to make and discover lists like this on MG!
Patrick Bregger (303297) on 12/27/2013 3:21 PM · Permalink · Report
Complete change logs in patch info
Игги Друге (46653) on 12/27/2013 6:08 PM · Permalink · Report
Until we scrap the 8-screens-long role list in credits submissions (can we please do it in the next weeks?), can the system at least make new credit submissions inherit the classifications from other, already submitted platforms if the wording is the same?
Karsa Orlong (151778) on 12/29/2013 9:00 AM · Permalink · Report
New option for approvers - IGNORE USER contributions option (1 up to 3), as we all have some issues with single individuals and this should prevent such problems in the future.
Roland Deschain on 12/29/2013 12:36 PM · edited · Permalink · Report
My recommendations to improve the usability of the listing function of the site.
1 being able to tick games in a list 2 so being able to delete multiple games in a list. 3 more sorting options (by platform, year etc) 4 being able to move or copy multiple items in a list to another list 5 exporting to xlm function with customizable columns.
Rola (8482) on 12/30/2013 9:39 PM · Permalink · Report
Reedx (1) --- "that must be a user who recently registered, nobody important."
That's what one would think not reading the forum beforehand.
We need some icon next to the user name to distinguish users with Approver (and Admin) privileges (silver/gold A ?). Donation star icon proves a similar code exists.
MrFlibble (18361) on 12/30/2013 10:42 PM · Permalink · Report
Whoops, apparently I was wrong about there being no limit to patch info. My previous submissions were not long enough! Right now I got this:
Patch Info cannot be longer than 1024 characters.
I guess I'll be skipping long entries for now, hopefully this is addressed!
Oh, and sorry for providing misleading info earlier in this thread.
is_that_rain_or_tears (634) on 12/30/2013 11:12 PM · edited · Permalink · Report
Are we sure reading that «Once submitted, your review becomes the sole property of MobyGames.com» doesn't prevent anyone from submitting reviews? I'd change this side of review policy.
Indra was here (20752) on 12/31/2013 2:11 AM · edited · Permalink · Report
[Q --start autumn_gloaming wrote--]Are we sure reading that «Once submitted, your review becomes the sole property of MobyGames.com» doesn't prevent anyone from submitting reviews? I'd change this side of review policy. [/Q --end autumn_gloaming wrote--] You can still submit the same review to other websites. That notification isn't exactly honest about the nature of intellectual property.
The standard protocol if a review/article has been republished is to add the following info e.g. This review was first published in GameFAQs.
is_that_rain_or_tears (634) on 12/31/2013 7:58 AM · Permalink · Report
I never even thought I couldn't post my reviews elsewhere at my wish. My point was about: I have to have the right to see my content removed from wherever I want, whenever I want. Speaking of reviews and not other contribution, of course.
MobyReed (357) on 12/31/2013 4:16 AM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start autumn_gloaming wrote--]Are we sure reading that «Once submitted, your review becomes the sole property of MobyGames.com» doesn't prevent anyone from submitting reviews? I'd change this side of review policy. [/Q --end autumn_gloaming wrote--] Yeah, thanks for pointing that out - we'll be sure to update this.
Tracy Poff (2095) on 1/22/2014 5:33 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Reedx wrote--] [Q2 --start ^~…±‰≈≠¤ wrote--]Are we sure reading that «Once submitted, your review becomes the sole property of MobyGames.com» doesn't prevent anyone from submitting reviews? I'd change this side of review policy. [/Q2 --end ^~…±‰≈≠¤ wrote--] Yeah, thanks for pointing that out - we'll be sure to update this. [/Q --end Reedx wrote--] I can't speak for anyone else, but I decided in 2008 not to submit any more reviews, partly because of that. Another factor was that I felt I couldn't write effective reviews in the good/bad/bottom line format we have here, but I'd surely have contributed a few, at least for games that I added, if not for that 'review becomes the sole property of MobyGames' thing.
Indra was here (20752) on 1/22/2014 5:35 PM · edited · Permalink · Report
I think I'm going to stop explaining about copyright on reviews here for the hundredth time, as it seems no one bothers to read my explanations and overall inability to understand the nature of intellectual property.
Lemme know when MG decides to sue someone for posting their review somewhere else on the net. eye roll
Tracy Poff (2095) on 1/22/2014 6:11 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Indra was here wrote--]I think I'm going to stop explaining about copyright on reviews here for the hundredth time, as it seems no one bothers to read my explanations and overall inability to understand the nature of intellectual property.
Lemme know when MG decides to sue someone for posting their review somewhere else on the net. eye roll [/Q --end Indra was here wrote--] I had a parenthetical remark in there to the effect of "despite Indra's repeated insistence that it doesn't matter", but I took it out in the interest of brevity. Mea culpa. My issue wasn't so much that I thought it'd hold up in court (since without an exchange of consideration it probably wouldn't), but that I didn't approve of it in principle, regardless of its legal effectiveness.
Indra was here (20752) on 1/22/2014 6:50 PM · edited · Permalink · Report
That principle is based under a false premise. MG doesn't own your review. They just own that review. Too tired to explain the details.
Pseudo_Intellectual (66423) on 1/22/2014 6:55 PM · Permalink · Report
I gather that however legally dubious, it is pretty standard boilerplate for any site that accepts user input. I also appreciate that it isn't necessary here -- or that it could be tweaked to indicate that the materials are considered property of the contributors (rather than the site) and cannot be used without /their/ permission.
Indra was here (20752) on 1/22/2014 7:08 PM · Permalink · Report
I'll explain this one last time. I will explode at the next person who interprets intellectual property out of their arse.
- You have 100 copies of a review.
- You donate 1 copy of that review to MG.
- Who owns the copyright to the other 99 reviews?
- How would you react to the person who just gave that 1 review to MG and insists that review still belongs to him/her?
MG doesn't own your review. It owns how that review is presented in the database (read=content). Hence, if you screenshot your review at MG and paste it on another website, then it's a copyright violation. Want to submit your original review to other websites? Sure, go ahead. The original copyright of the review is still yours. Contracts cannot supersede the law.
How many times do I have to repeat this? Every year apparently. I swear Rowan, if you still don't get it, I'm coming over to Canada. -_-
Tracy Poff (2095) on 1/22/2014 7:35 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Indra was here wrote--]I'll explain this one last time. I will explode at the next person who interprets intellectual property out of their arse.
- You have 100 copies of a review.
- You donate 1 copy of that review to MG.
- Who owns the copyright to the other 99 reviews?
- How would you react to the person who just gave that 1 review to MG and insists that review still belongs to him/her?
MG doesn't own your review. It owns how that review is presented in the database (read=content). Hence, if you screenshot your review at MG and paste it on another website, then it's a copyright violation. Want to submit your original review to other websites? Sure, go ahead. The original copyright of the review is still yours. Contracts cannot supersede the law.
How many times do I have to repeat this? Every year apparently. I swear Rowan, if you still don't get it, I'm coming over to Canada. -_- [/Q --end Indra was here wrote--]
Yes, if you hand someone a copy of your review, you don't assign the copyright to that review to the recipient. But that's not quite what's happening here, and assignment of copyright is clearly the intent of that line on the review page. Have a look at the MobyGames TOS:
"By submitting (e.g., uploading or otherwise transmitting) Content to the MobyGames web site, you warrant that you have all rights necessary to submit such Content free and clear of any rights of any third party. Further, by submitting Content, you assign all worldwide rights, title and interest in and to such Content to Mobygames, including all copyrights in any form, media, or technology now known or later developed. You waive any and all moral rights that you may have in the Content."
That does mean that you assign the copyright to MobyGames. It might well not hold up in court, but that's its purpose.
chirinea (47507) on 1/23/2014 12:26 AM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Tracy Poff wrote--]That does mean that you assign the copyright to MobyGames. It might well not hold up in court, but that's its purpose. [/Q --end Tracy Poff wrote--]Current owners think about changing the license for all data here to a more open one, so this will soon be removed, I guess.
Indra was here (20752) on 1/23/2014 12:31 AM · edited · Permalink · Report
That's a poorly written legal disclaimer actually. Dude must've just got out of law school when he wrote this, that needs his head kicked for being an ass, else by made the dunce by other intellectual property lawyers with half a brain. Hell, by any lawyer with half a brain come to think of it.
Did I mention contracts does not supercede the law?.
U.S. Code › Title 17 › Chapter 2 › § 204
17 U.S. CODE § 204 - EXECUTION OF TRANSFERS OF COPYRIGHT OWNERSHIP
(a) A transfer of copyright ownership, other than by operation of law, is not valid unless an instrument of conveyance, or a note or memorandum of the transfer, is in writing and signed by the owner of the rights conveyed or such owner’s duly authorized agent.
I told you not to interpret copyright law out of your arse, but does anyone listen to me? Noooo.
<hr />Even with that law, this is a license agreement. You are licensing copyright of mentioned content to MG. You're not transferring it. You're not giving it way your rights.
Can you even imagine the scale of corruption world wide if transfer of copyrights were that easily done?
Kinda reminds me of end user agreements on pirate websites. Oh, the irony.
Tracy Poff (2095) on 1/23/2014 2:59 AM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Indra was here wrote--] Did I mention contracts does not supercede the law?. [/Q --end Indra was here wrote--]
Yes, I know that supposedly a signed document is required in order to transfer copyright. But a website's terms of service can constitute such a 'signed document':
American Home Realty argued that the subscriber's electronic agreement to Metropolitan Regional's TOU, which contained a copyright assignment provision, was insufficient to assign rights under Section 204 of the Copyright Act, which requires a signed writing. But the Fourth Circuit rejected that argument and instead agreed with Metropolitan Regional's contention that an electronic transfer satisfies the Copyright Act's requirement of a signed writing. Both the court and Metropolitan Regional also relied on the Electronic Signatures in Global and National Commerce Act ("the E-Sign Act") to support that conclusion.
Whether or not MobyGames's TOS would stand up to a legal challenge isn't really my point, though. As I said, my point is that the intention is clearly to have the copyright on reviews (and everything else, too) assigned to MobyGames, which I disagree with.
Indra was here (20752) on 1/23/2014 8:27 AM · edited · Permalink · Report
And I'm saying since post freakin' one, that this isn't a transferable copyright freakin' agreement, it's just you giving license to MG to use your stuff and MG retaining the ability to copyright how that information has been adapted. Despite their wording still sounds like a provision made by some third world corporate dictator.
Oh, never mind. Surely, you're more of an expert than I am. I only drafted the first cyberlaw legislation in my country and majored in electronic commerce.
Pseudo_Intellectual (66423) on 1/22/2014 5:48 PM · Permalink · Report
That explains your game review blog, but what accounts for its diminishing activity?
Tracy Poff (2095) on 1/22/2014 7:18 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Pseudo_Intellectual wrote--]That explains your game review blog, but what accounts for its diminishing activity? [/Q --end Pseudo_Intellectual wrote--] The last year or so has been something of a dry spell, hasn't it?
Not from lack of interest, I assure you. It's partly just other projects taking priority, though there's been activity 'behind the scenes'--a couple of dozen reviews written but not ready to 'publish' and notes taken on another hundred games or so. I've also done a fair amount of background research for my projects relating to older games, resulting in, for example, my summary of Ahoy #1 and my comparison of Donkey Kong ports. I decided (roughly a year ago, looking back) that I wasn't familiar enough with the home computer scene in the early eighties to do the games justice in my reviews, so I've held back a number of those.
Other game-related projects: I've been working off and on reverse-engineering some game file formats, and I've got plans for tools to make it easier to do in the future. I wrote about half of an IF game, with a view to submitting it to the ifcomp, but scrapped it for lack of emotional engagement. I even beat a few games, shockingly enough. Meanwhile non-game-related projects and 'real life' trivialities interfere with the important work of documenting video games, of course.
I really should try to be more productive, though. I'll see if I can't clean up a few of the pending posts enough to get them out, and maybe I'll even be able to post them here, in the future. It's a beautiful dream, anyway.
Pseudo_Intellectual (66423) on 1/22/2014 11:14 PM · Permalink · Report
All very interesting developments, any of which would warrant, dare I say it, a blog post! Keep on keepin' on, and don't keep us in the dark!
Игги Друге (46653) on 1/23/2014 1:57 AM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Tracy Poff wrote--] [Q2 --start Pseudo_Intellectual wrote--]That explains your game review blog, but what accounts for its diminishing activity? [/Q2 --end Pseudo_Intellectual wrote--] The last year or so has been something of a dry spell, hasn't it? [/Q --end Tracy Poff wrote--]
This is interesting. I've thought for some time now that Tracy Poff and Pseudo were the same person.
Indra was here (20752) on 1/23/2014 2:05 AM · Permalink · Report
Time to take your medication, Iggy. :p
Pseudo_Intellectual (66423) on 1/23/2014 5:05 AM · Permalink · Report
We could well be sock puppets, but the question is who would be the puppet of whom?
Tracy Poff (2095) on 1/23/2014 1:03 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Pseudo_Intellectual wrote--]We could well be sock puppets, but the question is who would be the puppet of whom? [/Q --end Pseudo_Intellectual wrote--] Nonsense! Any similarity is down to good taste and general superiority. Although my lack of productivity would make sense if I had been busy playing Pseudo_Intellectual for the past year...
Foxhack (32099) on 1/1/2014 7:09 AM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Rola wrote--]Reedx (1) --- "that must be a user who recently registered, nobody important."
That's what one would think not reading the forum beforehand.
We need some icon next to the user name to distinguish users with Approver (and Admin) privileges (silver/gold A ?). Donation star icon proves a similar code exists. [/Q --end Rola wrote--]Admin, approver, former approver (me :p), regular user.
Maybe I want my special icon, okay?
BdR (7206) on 12/31/2013 12:25 AM · edited · Permalink · Report
My one and only improvement would be the "Game Browser" and the underlying improvements in genres and categories, as proposed in Vedder's "Updating the genre" spreadsheet.
Also, there are so many suggestions for improvements here. Should there at one time be people/resources available for working on the site, I think the first step should be consolidating all suggestions and maybe have the site visitors vote on the priority issues. Then you could work on improvements in an agile/scrum fashion.
Havoc Crow (29905) on 12/31/2013 5:03 PM · Permalink · Report
Change the forums so that we can find new posts more easily. Currently you basically need to scroll through the entire long thread (like this very one!) to look for where the tiny "NEW" icon appears, and count silently to make sure you catch all the new posts. Even something as simple as changing to a textual indicator (so that we can use Ctrl+F to check for new posts) would work.
chirinea (47507) on 12/31/2013 5:05 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start JudgeDeadd wrote--]Change the forums so that we can find new posts more easily. Currently you basically need to scroll through the entire long thread (like this very one!) to look for where the tiny "NEW" icon appears, and count silently to make sure you catch all the new posts. Even something as simple as changing to a textual indicator (so that we can use Ctrl+F to check for new posts) would work. [/Q --end JudgeDeadd wrote--]I use Ctrl+F and "today", then I look for the "NEW" icon. =D
Havoc Crow (29905) on 12/31/2013 8:26 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start chirinea wrote--] I use Ctrl+F and "today", then I look for the "NEW" icon. =D [/Q --end chirinea wrote--] Unless you don't check the thread every single day...
Pseudo_Intellectual (66423) on 12/31/2013 10:05 PM · Permalink · Report
it should be relatively trivial to sink a in-page target (eg. mobygamesforums.htm#new) just before the NEW! icon, and have the browser automatically zip the user there.
Indra was here (20752) on 12/31/2013 8:13 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start JudgeDeadd wrote--] Currently you basically need to scroll through the entire long thread (like this very one!) to look for where the tiny "NEW" icon appears... [/Q --end JudgeDeadd wrote--]That's why I use the threaded mode.
Patrick Bregger (303297) on 12/31/2013 8:37 PM · Permalink · Report
Doesn't everyone? Why would anyone use that horrible flat mode except when redesigns break it?
Havoc Crow (29905) on 12/31/2013 9:15 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Patrick Bregger wrote--]Doesn't everyone? Why would anyone use that horrible flat mode except when redesigns break it? [/Q --end Patrick Bregger wrote--] Because flat mode is much easier to use as it doesn't require you to click for every single forum post.
Patrick Bregger (303297) on 12/31/2013 9:43 PM · edited · Permalink · Report
Well, for me this is a definitive advantage of threaded mode. It is so much better and clearer to click one post at a time, especially in a lower-frequency forum like this.
By the way, this is my favourite forums design of all time. Take it as you will.
BdR (7206) on 1/1/2014 12:43 PM · edited · Permalink · Report
[Q --start JudgeDeadd wrote--]Change the forums so that we can find new posts more easily. [/Q --end JudgeDeadd wrote--] I agree, the MobyGames forums can use an update. Finding the information you want is a real chore.
I've heard of Discourse which is supposedly the "next gen" in forum software, it looks promising. :) It looks like this -> http://discuss.howtogeek.com/categories
Starbuck the Third (22601) on 12/31/2013 6:18 PM · Permalink · Report
On the approver application page, open up more queues than just new games, probably the most daunting of all approval queues. That way might get a few more approvers, freeing up the more experienced approvers for the more demanding queues, and hopefully getting more things approved long term.
Havoc Crow (29905) on 12/31/2013 8:27 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start havoc of smeg wrote--]On the approver application page, open up more queues than just new games, probably the most daunting of all approval queues. That way might get a few more approvers, freeing up the more experienced approvers for the more demanding queues, and hopefully getting more things approved long term. [/Q --end havoc of smeg wrote--] I don't think that page ever worked, actually...
MrFlibble (18361) on 1/1/2014 10:51 AM · Permalink · Report
Are there any plans to create an "Open source" group for games? Googling found a similar suggestion that was proposed some time ago however it doesn't seem to have been implemented since.
Havoc Crow (29905) on 1/1/2014 5:29 PM · edited · Permalink · Report
This is a minor issue, but at this moment the games in a game group can only be ordered by year, not by entire release date. This leads to silly situations when e.g. Whatever Quest 1 was released in February 2001, Whatever Quest 1 Gold Edition was released in April 2001 and Whatever Quest 2 was released in December 2001, but if you bring up the "Whatever Quest series" group, the three games are in an arbitrary order.
(For an example, see Dweep series)
Patrick Bregger (303297) on 1/3/2014 6:03 PM · Permalink · Report
Another current example is the Assassin's Creed series where a DLC for Assassin's Creed III (April 2013) appears before Assassin's Creed IV (October 2013)
Pseudo_Intellectual (66423) on 1/3/2014 9:52 PM · Permalink · Report
This kind of problem has always been invoked as a (bogus) reason we demand release dates: because how else will we sort and display game releases in the browser? (note: undated games just float to the top.) What would be desired behavior here however in the case of having some games with a release date, others with a release month only and some with just a release year? Put the year-only ones on top, then sort by month, with month-only ones at the top of their month, then sort by date within there?
Pseudo_Intellectual (66423) on 1/4/2014 5:47 AM · Permalink · Report
Do you also agree then that totally dateless submissions represent no greater challenge to our goals here?
Cavalary (11448) on 1/4/2014 12:48 PM · Permalink · Report
Agree? The fact that dates are required is the first reason why I generally don't even consider adding games... (Well, release info in general, but without a date requirement, adding the developer and a publisher first associated with an on-line store's entry or such and ticking worldwide should work. Whoever knows and actually cares about these things can do the rest later.)
Coreus (200) on 1/1/2014 5:29 PM · edited · Permalink · Report
Add video media to the games, so people can "see" how the game is in action. This could be connected to existing clips on youtube.
Screenshots: Add something like a "lightbox" to the screenshot section so you don't have to "leave" the tab you're on.
In the game overview, the rap sheet on the left side could have a indicator how many screenshots, trivia etc. there are. For instance:
Rap sheet Main Summary Credits Release Info Cover Art (12) Screenshots (21)
Larger margin at the top where the logo is, it could use some "breathing room". Right now it feels rather cramped to the top of the page.
The forum: In general, it needs a facelift. It's very 90s. Things like a quick-reply box at the bottom would make more sense, than needing to scroll to the very top of the thread to click "reply" even when it's implicit that I'm replying to the person who created the thread. In short, make it feel more like other forums do. Forums like Vanilla Forums or PHPBB should give a pointer to what I mean.
Also, a quick box at the top when visiting the forums on "What people are discussing/looking at right now" is very nice. Here's an example of how that looks: http://www.diskusjon.no/index.php?showforum=72 (It's in norwegian, but look at the top under "Dette diskuteres nå")
Fred VT (25949) on 1/1/2014 7:01 PM · Permalink · Report
I think we should have the possibility to edit cover arts and release info the same way we can edit descriptions. Right now we need to send a correction to add or remove a country from those or just rewrite some cover descriptions for the sake of consistency...
Indra was here (20752) on 1/1/2014 7:16 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Fred VT wrote--]I think we should have the possibility to edit cover arts and release info the same way we can edit descriptions. [/Q --end Fred VT wrote--]Editor for practically everything really.
PS. Could someone finally fix the typos on the quoting system?
piltdown_man (242944) on 1/2/2014 12:48 PM · Permalink · Report
There's been a few comments about the way compilations are handled on moby and I'd like to request a better / consistent approach, please.
When I started posting shareware games for the '10 Tons of Games' compilation, a game group was created for so that all games could be viewed collectively. That was something of a one off event, and it creates work for the game group approval committee, but it does work.
Foxhack (32099) on 1/3/2014 12:32 AM · Permalink · Report
I've been poking around some games at random checking stuff out and I noticed something that seemed strangely... off about digital covers.
There's stuff like this Diablo III digital cover art that make... little sense. I looked up Gamesload and it's basically a CD key seller, which is fine. But it's just a CD key seller. It's not selling an actual digital download.
Does that still warrant a cover art entry? I mean, you're given a key that will work on Battle.net, right? So you'd use the Battle.net cover art instead of the store one.
I dunno. It just seemed weird.
is_that_rain_or_tears (634) on 1/4/2014 1:57 AM · Permalink · Report
Support for OUYA is needed.
Pseudo_Intellectual (66423) on 1/4/2014 2:43 AM · Permalink · Report
If we can figure out what to do with OUYA then we can add the Kindle Fire as a platform too: they're both just Android devices, right?
Foxhack (32099) on 1/4/2014 2:54 AM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Pseudo_Intellectual wrote--]If we can figure out what to do with OUYA then we can add the Kindle Fire as a platform too: they're both just Android devices, right? [/Q --end Pseudo_Intellectual wrote--]Android devices with very specific hardware.
Pseudo_Intellectual (66423) on 1/4/2014 5:44 AM · Permalink · Report
Yes, then maybe Kindle Fire and OUYA can just be ticked off as tech specs?
is_that_rain_or_tears (634) on 1/4/2014 3:09 AM · edited · Permalink · Report
How to add here a game running on OUYA but not on Android tablets/phones? As a game for Android, just that, perhaps specifying «OUYA release» in release comments?
Игги Друге (46653) on 1/4/2014 4:31 PM · Permalink · Report
If it can't be run on a standard Android phone or tablet, I'd say it's not an Android game or Android system.
Sciere (930964) on 1/4/2014 11:35 AM · edited · Permalink · Report
Both OUYA and Kindle (Fire) should be new platforms. They have their own separate libraries and releases. As far as I know, general Android games do not work on OUYA unless the developer makes a specific, custom-tailored .apk file available where the OUYA SDK is integrated.
From the FAQ
CAN I PLAY MY OUYA GAMES ON MY OTHER ANDROID DEVICES?
Not at this time.
CAN I PLAY ANDROID GAMES PURCHASED FROM GOOGLE PLAY ON OUYA?
No.
The same goes for Kindle Fire, general application packages (.apks) cannot be downloaded unless you use the technique of sideloading, which hardly qualifies as a "regular release":
Paid apps from the Market won’t authorize properly, so that’s out. Additionally, any apps that call on functions that don’t exist on the Kindle will crash.
Lampbane (22356) on 1/13/2014 3:22 AM · Permalink · Report
Restating the request to add DVD (and Laser Disc, and Blu-ray, if they exist) games. I have two games that are not in the database that were only released here on Windows and DVD, and the Windows version is not the version I bought so I can't really contribute screenshots or cover art (though I guess I should just put in the Windows versions already).
Included games on TV/movie releases seems to be on the decline, so that would be a very interesting and (thankfully) finite period of games to document.
Patrick Bregger (303297) on 1/4/2014 8:19 AM · Permalink · Report
No, we introduced steam tech-specs recently.
Patrick Bregger (303297) on 1/4/2014 8:46 AM · edited · Permalink · Report
http://www.mobygames.com/attribute/sheet/attributeId,2085/p,3/
You can search for technical attributes in the normal search (checkbox Game Attributes). The Steam ones don't show up yet, probably because they are only a few days old.
vileyn0id_8088 (21040) on 1/4/2014 9:39 AM · Permalink · Report
The trivia system could really use an overhaul. AFAIK these days we're expected to revise existing trivia entries instead of adding new ones, so the contribution is credited as a revision, and isn't accessible from the user's contribution sheet.
I'd suggest modifying the template to simply group all trivia items together, so that "add trivia" could again be used for its original purpose. But then there's the question of what to do with entries that are already stored as a single item with subtitles...
Patrick Bregger (303297) on 1/4/2014 10:11 AM · edited · Permalink · Report
No, that would defy the whole reason why the policy on trivia was changed - to have one trivia text which is thematically grouped and, most importantly, in itself consistent. This is impossible to achieve in the old form - does anyone want the trivia pages with hundred awards entries back? It is not like the single items served any useful database function.
It makes sense to treat the three major MobyGames freeform texts outside personalized reviews (game description, game group description, trivia) the same - as one collaborate entry which all MobyGames contributors can improve.
Pseudo_Intellectual (66423) on 1/5/2014 3:28 AM · Permalink · Report
From a contributor's POV, the current trivia system is pretty ass-backwards. There should just be a number of prefab trivia categories to choose from (I imagine 10 categories would cover 95% of trivia submissions) with an option to open a new, game-unique heading, and you just tell the database which section of the overall trivia-blob to dump the new content submission into.
Rola (8482) on 1/5/2014 4:25 AM · Permalink · Report
When Moby was in coma I've suggested to Oregami designers that game awards should be separated from trivia. Ideally (but that's lot of work) adding an award should have similar wizard as adding a review (read: a list of awards like at IMDb).
Game developers' community would surely appreciate better focus on awards.
Nélio (1976) on 1/13/2014 3:35 AM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Pseudo_Intellectual wrote--]From a contributor's POV, the current trivia system is pretty ass-backwards. There should just be a number of prefab trivia categories to choose from (I imagine 10 categories would cover 95% of trivia submissions) with an option to open a new, game-unique heading, and you just tell the database which section of the overall trivia-blob to dump the new content submission into. [/Q --end Pseudo_Intellectual wrote--]
I liked the previous trivia system better, with each trivia entry as a separate item. Never quite got the change.
Starbuck the Third (22601) on 1/13/2014 12:00 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Nélio wrote--] [Q2 --start Pseudo_Intellectual wrote--]From a contributor's POV, the current trivia system is pretty ass-backwards. There should just be a number of prefab trivia categories to choose from (I imagine 10 categories would cover 95% of trivia submissions) with an option to open a new, game-unique heading, and you just tell the database which section of the overall trivia-blob to dump the new content submission into. [/Q2 --end Pseudo_Intellectual wrote--]
I liked the previous trivia system better, with each trivia entry as a separate item. Never quite got the change. [/Q --end Nélio wrote--]
Never liked it myself for these reasons, and you never got credited with a trivia entry, just a revision.
Nélio (1976) on 1/13/2014 6:45 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start havoc of smeg wrote--] [Q2 --start Nélio wrote--] [Q3 --start Pseudo_Intellectual wrote--]From a contributor's POV, the current trivia system is pretty ass-backwards. There should just be a number of prefab trivia categories to choose from (I imagine 10 categories would cover 95% of trivia submissions) with an option to open a new, game-unique heading, and you just tell the database which section of the overall trivia-blob to dump the new content submission into. [/Q3 --end Pseudo_Intellectual wrote--]
I liked the previous trivia system better, with each trivia entry as a separate item. Never quite got the change. [/Q2 --end Nélio wrote--]
Never liked it myself for these reasons, and you never got credited with a trivia entry, just a revision. [/Q --end havoc of smeg wrote--]
Yes, that too! And I liked that a random trivia entry was displayed on a game's rap sheet, and you could click to view more.
Indra was here (20752) on 1/4/2014 11:01 AM · Permalink · Report
I think it was myself and Cantillon that first experimented with the trivia system, evolving to what it is now, a revision system rather than the previous adding individual trivia entries. Main reason was it was a mess, especially for popular titles. When I mean a mess, toilet graffiti comes to mind.
Each trivia entry often repeated the similar information from of other entries, there were no categories, no narration, so everything was all over the place. So we just came up with a workaround, as a feature fix was never an option.
Your option (trivia entry per category/group) never occurred to us (me), simply because we didn't have any standard categorization/groups for trivia. For the most part, many items only belonged to one or a few categories (names of which we just pulled out of our arses),
If we were to use your proposition when we fixed it, that would mean we would have to contribute new trivia entries ourselves per category. Which was out of the question because (1) it felt like cheating, as approvers already have an unfair advantage vs. normal users (2) browsing through the trivia queues is not for the faint hearted.
The revision approach was deemed to be the quickest and most feasible option at the time. I hope this is satisfactory for the time being.
Indra was here (20752) on 1/4/2014 1:42 PM · Permalink · Report
When rating a game, I've always found it a bit curious that music and sound are combined. Some games only have sound effects, others only music. In many cases with both, either one is better or worse than the other. Would make sense if it were separated.
Starbuck the Third (22601) on 1/4/2014 2:40 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Indra is awakening... wrote--]When rating a game, I've always found it a bit curious that music and sound are combined. Some games only have sound effects, others only music. In many cases with both, either one is better or worse than the other. Would make sense if it were separated. [/Q --end Indra is awakening... wrote--]
Indra mentioning ratings, I think some of the game ratings options need adjusting:
Gameplay: Should be mandatory, as all games here are games, and seen as we don't catalogue interactive vids, they can all be played, there for all have gameplay.
Graphics: should be mandatory, as virtually all games have graphics.
Sound/music: Should be seperate, see indra's post.
Story/presentation: should be seperated and presentation be mandatory, as games don't necessarily have story (e.g tetris), but all have overall presentation by default.
Cavalary (11448) on 1/4/2014 4:59 PM · Permalink · Report
There may still be some text games, not to mention any from the time when text-only was rather common...
But I do wonder how many people would try to accurately rate sound effects if listed separately. Seems like a rather specialized thing to follow.
Indra was here (20752) on 1/4/2014 5:32 PM · edited · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Cavalary wrote--]But I do wonder how many people would try to accurately rate sound effects if listed separately. Seems like a rather specialized thing to follow. [/Q --end Cavalary wrote--]Playing Fallout 2 without sound effects is an utterly dull experience, for example. Did it have music? Don't remember. Only remember the amazing sound of flesh being torn by a shotgun (not so good in Fallout 3). Would give sound effects a perfect 10. Would give Troika's Temple of Elemental Evil between 3-5 (out of 10). Sound effects there were pretty much generic and some spells had an extremely high-pitched annoying sound.
In some other games, I can only remember the music, not so much about the sound effects.
Never did like MG's 5 point score rating. Feels like a scoring system for people who failed in math and didn't graduate high school.
vedder (71144) on 1/4/2014 5:47 PM · Permalink · Report
If it were up to me we'd get rid of the 2 step rating system altogether. It's way to ambiguous and in the end it forces me to give ratings I don't really mean to give to individual elements because I want the end average to be roughly in a certain range. I'd much rather just give a rating out of 10 just like every other site.
Removing it would also simplify the new game contribution and approval process, because most users do this part wrong with not checking all relevant options, or checking too many.
Personally I find our rating system way to mechanic. If we're going to have separate scores I'd rather see something like: Fun, Addictiveness, Atmosphere, Audiovisual appeal. But really just a single rating would be much better in my opinion.
Indra was here (20752) on 1/4/2014 6:11 PM · edited · Permalink · Report
Well, you don't have to enter a rating for every category (not rated). You can just vote based on personal slant. Though that option somewhat needs to be expressed and explained when rating a game.
Cavalary (11448) on 1/4/2014 6:32 PM · Permalink · Report
I rather like the separate ratings, though they should probably be weighted in some way. Personal slant is there to show how much people liked the game (or not) overall, while the other aspects should offer a more detailed look at its... parts.
Hm, may separate personal slant from the rest then? Sort of have that as the single rating and then an average of the rest as an, I don't know, "technical score"? And then people can click for the details if they care.
Rola (8482) on 1/4/2014 8:42 PM · Permalink · Report
I admit I often have a problem with assessing AI (in many games it simply cheats to give the impression of higher difficulty!), but otherwise I'd retain the separate ratings. We do like them in professional reviews, right? The game can be an eye candy, yet gameplay may be atrocious and repetitive. A solid game may have cheap voice acting that sounds like a last minute addition. There are old simple games which tunes you keep humming today.
vedder (71144) on 1/4/2014 9:15 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Rola wrote--]The game can be an eye candy, yet gameplay may be atrocious and repetitive. A solid game may have cheap voice acting that sounds like a last minute addition. There are old simple games which tunes you keep humming today. [/Q --end Rola wrote--]
A game can have the worst voice acting ever, but still be one of the best games ever made. But not with our rating system. Because with a 0 for acting, the whole review score is degraded. It just doesn't make sense. If we're going to keep it, at least the total score should be just personal slant and not some kind of average. That just doesn't work.
Indra was here (20752) on 1/4/2014 9:55 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start vedder wrote--] A game can have the worst voice acting ever, but still be one of the best games ever made. But not with our rating system. Because with a 0 for acting, the whole review score is degraded. [/Q --end vedder wrote--]Did I mention you can leave any single category unrated?
Here's an example for the game Craft the World. I just entered personal slant. Perfect score.
Игги Друге (46653) on 1/5/2014 2:26 AM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Indra is awakening... wrote--] [Q2 --start vedder wrote--] A game can have the worst voice acting ever, but still be one of the best games ever made. But not with our rating system. Because with a 0 for acting, the whole review score is degraded. [/Q2 --end vedder wrote--]Did I mention you can leave any single category unrated? [/Q --end Indra is awakening... wrote--]
But then you're in a way doing the same thing as those who give a game a low audio score just so they can get a final score of 4,25 instead of 4,50. One shouldn't have to avoid rating the sound or graphics just because the system doesn't know what's important.
Indra was here (20752) on 1/5/2014 11:54 AM · Permalink · Report
I'm not entirely sure what's important really. Don't really care about the overall score, if I'm honest about the individual categories.
Don't any of you find this weird in a review:
Game Mechanics: 9
Graphics: 8
Sound/Music: 7
Overall score: 9.
Either dude can't count or his opinion really doesn't matter.
Indra was here (20752) on 1/5/2014 1:51 PM · edited · Permalink · Report
I like that RPG, I'm giving the game a 9.
Do you like the character development? Not really, it's pretty basic.
Do you like the item variation? Well, it's pretty sparse.
Do you like it control system during combat? Too many combinations, just normal whacking works.
So, what exactly do you like about the game? Oh, the story and atmosphere.
I find this biased logic to be faulty. Which is why quantitative polls in social studies are about as reliable as a seance.
Cavalary (11448) on 1/5/2014 3:14 PM · Permalink · Report
Your example said nothing of disliking character development, item variation or combat controls. In fact the game mechanics score matched the overall :p But yes, you can like one element of a game enough to put up with others in the poor range if that's the one you usually care about most.
Hence the suggestion to separate personal slant from the other scores if you want to get technical about it.
Indra was here (20752) on 1/5/2014 5:04 PM · Permalink · Report
Well, the best compromise I can think of is:
- Create an average for each separate category (e.g. Music: 8,4 rated by 24 people).
- Offer an option to the user, to which score rating he/she would prefer be published as her/his score: [1] Average score of all categories combined [2] Use personal slant as personal rating.
Yeah, but that'll require additional coding. -_-
Игги Друге (46653) on 1/5/2014 5:37 PM · Permalink · Report
Or we just count personal slant, since it is already weighted by the user. It requires a single line of code.
Indra was here (20752) on 1/5/2014 6:19 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Игги Друге wrote--]It requires a single line of code. [/Q --end Игги Друге wrote--]Judging from past experience (present owners excluded), adding new code to MG is the equivalent of solving world hunger and discovering cold fusion. :p
Игги Друге (46653) on 1/6/2014 2:02 AM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Indra is awakening... wrote--] [Q2 --start Игги Друге wrote--]It requires a single line of code. [/Q2 --end Игги Друге wrote--]Judging from past experience (present owners excluded), adding new code to MG is the equivalent of solving world hunger and discovering cold fusion. :p [/Q --end Indra is awakening... wrote--]
Exactly. This could have been done ten years ago, no-one would have protested, but it just couldn't be done because the idea wasn't launched by one of the "insiders".
Игги Друге (46653) on 1/5/2014 4:49 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Indra is awakening... wrote--] Don't any of you find this weird in a review:
Game Mechanics: 9
Graphics: 8
Sound/Music: 7
Overall score: 9. [/Q --end Indra is awakening... wrote--]
No, because I am not from Germany.
[Q --start Indra is awakening... wrote--] Either dude can't count or his opinion really doesn't matter. [/Q --end Indra is awakening... wrote--]
Let's take a basic example: Tetris. It can be played in black and white with no sound, and is still one of the most addictive games made.
Indra was here (20752) on 1/5/2014 5:11 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Игги Друге wrote--]Let's take a basic example: Tetris. It can be played in black and white with no sound, and is still one of the most addictive games made. [/Q --end Игги Друге wrote--]Well, if we just used two categories: sound/music and game mechanics, I'd give it a 6 and a 9. Average score would be 7.5. Don't have a problem with that score. Or don't rate the sound/music if you think it's not relevant, and voila, it's a 9.
Oh, didn't understand the Germany thing.
Игги Друге (46653) on 1/5/2014 5:34 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Indra is awakening... wrote--] [Q2 --start Игги Друге wrote--]Let's take a basic example: Tetris. It can be played in black and white with no sound, and is still one of the most addictive games made. [/Q2 --end Игги Друге wrote--]Well, if we just used two categories: sound/music and game mechanics, I'd give it a 6 and a 9. Average score would be 7.5. Don't have a problem with that score. Or don't rate the sound/music if you think it's not relevant, and voila, it's a 9.[/Q --end Indra is awakening... wrote--]
I have a problem with a great game being given a low score, and I also have a problem with not scoring something just because I was afraid it would lower the total score. There are Tetris variations with great music, but in the end, that music isn't what makes it great. Nevertheless, it should show up if I want to sort games by music score.
[Q --start Indra is awakening... wrote--]Oh, didn't understand the Germany thing. [/Q --end Indra is awakening... wrote--]
I've seen that "total score is average of graphics/sound/gameplay" in German magazines, and it strikes me as a very teutonic way of seeing things. Almost as if the reviewer was afraid of having a personal opinion.
Indra was here (20752) on 1/4/2014 9:49 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Rola wrote--]I admit I often have a problem with assessing AI... [/Q --end Rola wrote--]I have no idea how to rate AI. Don't think I've ever given top score for AI. Not entirely sure what good AI is supposed to look like either. Bad AI is probably fixed movement and variations consisting of constantly bumping into walls.
AI seems like a good idea, however for the most part, me thinks it's already somewhat merged in the gameplay category. Don't really think our gaming technology is advanced enough to consider AI worth mentioning either.
My personal taste of game ratings would be:
Game Mechanics: How gameplay is via technical aspects such as controls, interface, artificial intelligence (AI), etc., which allows the player to respond to the gameplay effectively. Also includes the stability of the program, e.g. game bugs.
Educational: How effective the game is in teaching the player various educational aspects. Not limited to games under the education genre. May also include games that purposely attempt to educate the player of history or even fantasy lore, usually through documentation or in-game encyclopedias, usually of the strategy genre.
Graphics: How good the graphics are in relation to its theme, artistic presentation, and graphics technology of when the game was released.
Sound: How effective the sound effects are in delivering a supporting atmospheric role. Games that have a bare minimum of sound effects (one or two sounds) should be excluded from this rating.
Music: How effective the musical compositions are delivering a supporting atmospheric role.
Story: How effective the game is in delivering ideas to immerse the player in the proposed game world, through dialog, voice acting, animations, and other variations not necessarily gameplay related.
Personal Slant: How you personally like the game as a whole.
<hr />Not needed: Acting.
Pseudo_Intellectual (66423) on 1/5/2014 3:25 AM · Permalink · Report
I do most of my gameplay with my computer muted.
I see no problem with a combined "audio" category. It would be strange to include voice acting in there, but is it any less strange to lump in menu presentation, sprites, FMV and interface all under "graphics"?
Indra was here (20752) on 1/5/2014 11:57 AM · edited · Permalink · Report
I would put voice acting under story. And presentation under game mechanics.
Well, it would depend what type of voice acting though. If it's for the sound effects (for combat units) or story (actor dialog).
Foxhack (32099) on 1/4/2014 4:48 PM · Permalink · Report
We need an easier way to add platforms to existing cover art.
With Steam adding Mac / Linux releases to their existing entries, it might be faster to "Add a new platform" to the cover than submit a correction that might take months to approve.
Fred VT (25949) on 1/4/2014 5:00 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Foxhack wrote--]We need an easier way to add platforms to existing cover art.
With Steam adding Mac / Linux releases to their existing entries, it might be faster to "Add a new platform" to the cover than submit a correction that might take months to approve. [/Q --end Foxhack wrote--]
I agree
Indra was here (20752) on 1/5/2014 6:19 PM · edited · Permalink · Report
Any particular reason why hints are separated per platform? Seems a bit useless really (also confusing and untidy when contributing) and if there are some differences, it can be easily be described anyway.
Also needs a revise tool.
Indra was here (20752) on 1/5/2014 7:22 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start chirinea wrote--]Simply because different platforms have different hints. =) The code for continues in one platform may use controller buttons inexistent in another one. [/Q --end chirinea wrote--]I always get confused with hints when the wizard asks if this hint also applies to Macintosh and Linux.
Foxhack (32099) on 1/5/2014 9:20 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Indra is awakening... wrote--] [Q2 --start chirinea wrote--]Simply because different platforms have different hints. =) The code for continues in one platform may use controller buttons inexistent in another one. [/Q2 --end chirinea wrote--]I always get confused with hints when the wizard asks if this hint also applies to Macintosh and Linux. [/Q --end Indra is awakening... wrote--]Multiplatform releases done by the same developer render this point moot.
Cavalary (11448) on 1/7/2014 12:25 AM · edited · Permalink · Report
Footer? As in that bit with the copyright notice and assorted links? Why? (And sticky anything that doesn't directly operate items on page that the user will need to do something with is annoying imho. Though a sticky sidebar menu may be somewhat handy. I mean, that space's wasted once you scroll down anyway.)
Klaster_1 (57610) on 1/7/2014 4:01 AM · Permalink · Report
Just compare what we have now and how it will look after suggested edit. «Sticky footer» just makes sure page doesn't have size smaller than browser viewport.
Cavalary (11448) on 1/7/2014 1:46 PM · Permalink · Report
... and waste screen space in all other scenarios, unless it'll only apply when the page would otherwise be too small. And that's rather difficult unless you have ads off (like in your shot), which I imagine isn't in the site's best interest at the moment (or ever, but for the past years we had no reason to care), or a screen height past full HD (admittedly, there's 1600x1200 and 1920x1200, but rather unusual now).
SGruber (3811) on 1/6/2014 9:36 PM · Permalink · Report
This is probably exeedingly low priority, but:
Can we maybe get some kind of (optional) "lens tool" when looking at covers? (Something akin to what amazon has?) I would really help looking up the small print when approving tech specs or ratings from cover shots.
Probably impossible technical gimmick, but one can ask ....
Foxhack (32099) on 1/7/2014 2:02 AM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start SGruber wrote--]This is probably exeedingly low priority, but:
Can we maybe get some kind of (optional) "lens tool" when looking at covers? (Something akin to what amazon has?) I would really help looking up the small print when approving tech specs or ratings from cover shots.
Probably impossible technical gimmick, but one can ask .... [/Q --end SGruber wrote--]That doesn't do much good when the source scans aren't much larger than the watermarked image.
Nélio (1976) on 1/8/2014 3:45 AM · Permalink · Report
I'd like to request the screenshots shown in the Selected Shots section in a game's main summary screen to be displayed in the same order they appear in the thumbnails page. The shots are randomly selected, but the selection would make more sense if the shots retained their original order.
j.raido 【雷堂嬢太朗】 (100156) on 1/8/2014 3:51 AM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Nélio wrote--]I'd like to request the screenshots shown in the Selected Shots section in a game's main summary screen to be displayed in the same order they appear in the thumbnails page. The shots are randomly selected, but the selection would make more sense if the shots retained their original order. [/Q --end Nélio wrote--] By the same token, I would suggest that the "selected shots" for game groups not simply use the first screenshot on file. You currently just wind up with a bunch of logos and title screens most of the time.
Indra was here (20752) on 1/8/2014 3:07 PM · Permalink · Report
Would like that logo shots, main menus, loading screens, be in a separate 'technical' column for screenshots. Logo screenshots really should be mandatory for oldie games.
Игги Друге (46653) on 1/8/2014 3:26 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Indra was here wrote--]Logo screenshots really should be mandatory for oldie games. [/Q --end Indra was here wrote--]
What do you mean?
Indra was here (20752) on 1/8/2014 9:11 PM · Permalink · Report
Company logo shots should be encouraged for older games. Would also help to narrow down the actual date of use of the logo, for people who are interested in researching that kinda stuff.
Игги Друге (46653) on 1/10/2014 3:41 AM · Permalink · Report
Problem is 1) that it doesn't really belong in a game entry. 2) With the current system, it becomes the primary screenshot, showing up as an identifier in game groups etc.
Indra was here (20752) on 1/10/2014 3:59 AM · Permalink · Report
Well, #1 is debatable. Technically, I would agree. Historically, it's still part of the game presentation. #2 is easily fixed by moving it to the last place. Though someone will have to move it. :p
Hell, I'd feel weird if any King's Quest game didn't have a Sierra logo screenshot somewhere in there.
Indra was here (20752) on 1/10/2014 1:51 PM · edited · Permalink · Report
[Q --start SGruber wrote--]Couldn't we add screenshots to company entries? Even if we have the logo from a scan, having a time era logo-screenshot would be nice. [/Q --end SGruber wrote--] We already do. However, for entirely different purposes. Company logo shots in the company profile refers to use by the company. What I'm talking about is company logo shots in reference to use by the game.
Plus, there are several instances where the dates don't match. e.g. company logo used in 1993 and 1995 was company logo A, yet company logo used in 1994 in the game is company logo B. Though it became more of a mess when you compare it with online sources. Different dates everyfreakinwhere.
Игги Друге (46653) on 1/10/2014 3:42 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Indra was here wrote--] Plus, there are several instances where the dates don't match. e.g. company logo used in 1993 and 1995 was company logo A, yet company logo used in 1994 in the game is company logo B.[/Q --end Indra was here wrote--]
Does the system even allow that?
Indra was here (20752) on 1/10/2014 4:10 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Игги Друге wrote--] [Q2 --start Indra was here wrote--] Plus, there are several instances where the dates don't match. e.g. company logo used in 1993 and 1995 was company logo A, yet company logo used in 1994 in the game is company logo B. [/Q2 --end Indra was here wrote--]
Does the system even allow that? [/Q --end Игги Друге wrote--]Well company profile contributions are unrelated to game entry screenshots.
Hell, remember decades ago when we argued about a Nokia logo? I used an official Nokia timeline, you had a printed magazine using the logo that states that the logo was used earlier before the official timeline.
Indra was here (20752) on 1/8/2014 3:04 PM · Permalink · Report
I'd request the screenshot previews be larger (perhaps better if optional via user). If larger, just three random screenshots.
vedder (71144) on 1/8/2014 4:31 PM · edited · Permalink · Report
I second larger screenshot previews, and possibly more as well. Cover art may be larger as well. Game entries on the site could look just a little bit more appealing and shiny to new users to attract them.
That said: gameplay videos. Screenshots are so 1999.
Starbuck the Third (22601) on 1/8/2014 5:58 PM · edited · Permalink · Report
[Q --start vedder wrote--]I second larger screenshot previews, and possibly more as well. Cover art may be larger as well. Game entries on the site could look just a little bit more appealing and shiny to new users to attract them.
That said: gameplay videos. Screenshots are so 1999. [/Q --end vedder wrote--]
Document trailers as well, maybe? We already do cover art and ad blurbs, and they're just as relevant in 2014 as ad blurbs were in 1999
Foxhack (32099) on 1/8/2014 5:52 PM · edited · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Indra was here wrote--]I'd request the screenshot previews be larger (perhaps better if optional via user). If larger, just three random screenshots. [/Q --end Indra was here wrote--]Optional, and scaled by the server via HTML height / width values in exact multiples if possible, so we don't end up with blurry messes caused by crappy browser scaling.
Cavalary (11448) on 1/8/2014 7:46 PM · Permalink · Report
If videos, we'd need to host them elsewhere, considering the bandwidth used, and then they'd be watched there too and little point. Plus that, blah, videos.
The scaling thumbnails is something I did for no reason really in the little gallery on my site, have them in 4 sizes and a script picks which one to display according to window width (when the page loads, if you want to mess with it and resize the window with it open nothing'll change of course). Feels pointless, but at the time it seemed like a good idea.
Indra was here (20752) on 1/8/2014 9:13 PM · Permalink · Report
We'll have to put up videos sooner or later. Or be laughed as prehistoric old geezers by a younger generation.
Cavalary (11448) on 1/8/2014 9:34 PM · Permalink · Report
Blah. Document trailers, sure, but past that...
Maybe if we could link to users' no commentary (mandatory) let's plays on YT or wherever (do see about the "wherever" (as long as it's a HTML5 player), with YT's recent "improvements"), offer some centralization for that. Otherwise, why?
Indra was here (20752) on 1/8/2014 10:26 PM · Permalink · Report
Either way works. Remember when Daniel wanted to post his reviews with youtube video links? He's probably one of the youngest among us. That should give an idea of the generation gap between us.
Indra was here (20752) on 1/8/2014 10:36 PM · Permalink · Report
When you've past 25, you're no longer the younger generation. Deal with it, dude. :p
Rola (8482) on 1/9/2014 1:47 AM · Permalink · Report
I'm not a fan of video reviews. Takes much longer to watch the whole thing than to read it.
Not to mention you can't search inside a video review like you do within text - people drunk with the latest techno-gadgets forget about such aspects...
Not every decent reviewer is also a good speaker.
"Let's play" (video walkthrough) is way too long and time-consuming to create...
However, short (up to few minutes) previews of gameplay (sans voice commentary!) sound the most sensible here.
This is all assuming MobyGames has a channel on YouTube. Hosting videos here would kill the site (we don't want to transform into paid membership model, right?). Reaching YouTube audience is not a bad idea on its own.
Cavalary (11448) on 1/9/2014 2:12 AM · Permalink · Report
Exactly, and that works for video anything really, news, commentaries, whatever. There are cases where video helps, enhances the text, but those are far rarer than people tend to think these days.
Those short gameplay videos are what I see absolutely no point for. I mentioned no commentary let's plays because those actually have a point and if people'd know they may find links to good ones centralized on here it could mean something.
Indra was here (20752) on 1/8/2014 3:46 PM · Permalink · Report
If the current owners have ever wondered about this, I'd like to express that no one wants a complete overhaul. We would for the most part, like minor features fixed and/or upgraded and respond to those changes accordingly.
The polling system should also be maximized to identify what the community here wants.
Indra was here (20752) on 1/8/2014 9:15 PM · Permalink · Report
Hence the polling system. Top five suggested (new features), highest outcome gets worked on. Repeat indefinitely. Hell, even pirate websites do this.
is_that_rain_or_tears (634) on 1/8/2014 10:59 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Indra was here wrote--]Hence the polling system. Top five suggested (new features), highest outcome gets worked on. Repeat indefinitely. Hell, even pirate websites do this. [/Q --end Indra was here wrote--]
Would be great, but surely is not going to... occur :)
Fred VT (25949) on 1/8/2014 9:18 PM · Permalink · Report
Add-ons and Compilations should be marked as such in the game search (and maybe shown in separate lists in our contribution sheet), maybe shown by a special icon next to them.
Since they are already tagged by the genre/misc. Add-On and Compilation/Shovelware, this shouldn't be too complicated?
GTramp (81961) on 1/9/2014 4:56 AM · Permalink · Report
This page needs an update: http://www.mobygames.com/info/mobysites
Pseudo_Intellectual (66423) on 1/9/2014 5:06 AM · Permalink · Report
Would be nice if textboxes that invite us to enter URLs would accept https ones. (and ftp, telnet and itunes while we're at it 8)
MrFlibble (18361) on 1/9/2014 6:04 PM · Permalink · Report
So guys, is the 1024 character limit for patch comments/changelogs going to be removed in near future? I was able to submit a more or less lengthy entry for Star Wraith 3 by editing out extra information but there are other games with larger changelogs that cannot be edited down that way. A limit of 2048 characters would already help a lot.
CalaisianMindthief (8172) on 1/9/2014 6:06 PM · Permalink · Report
Aren't the comments supposed to be used as a summary?
MrFlibble (18361) on 1/10/2014 12:22 PM · Permalink · Report
I agree, what's the point in making a summary when there's no actual reason not to post the full official changelog? After all, this is also part of the official documentation of a game, and sometimes it takes effort to find it (e.g. if the official website is no longer online, and the authors did not bother adding a version history document to the game itself, or to the patches).
Indra was here (20752) on 1/10/2014 1:49 PM · Permalink · Report
Only workaround for now is to add the complete info in the trivia section. And then move it when the feature is supported.
is_that_rain_or_tears (634) on 1/9/2014 7:33 PM · edited · Permalink · Report
Genre sheet pages are uneasily accessible, and not all in the same way. To reach here I have to go to the page of a game featuring bowling as a theme. This page can be additionally reached from the Game Browser (just because more games are filed within this category) but, I still think, it should be reachable through less browsing/clicking.
I find it not much reasonable that this page is reachable only by the New Game wizard. Besides, from this page all of the abovementioned genre sheets should be reachable (they are all listed, but many aren't links).
[Note: I may be missing something about the how and the where.]
Genres and themes really demand to be actualised. So do game rating items. I'd stress the importance of Personal slant; replace Graphics and Sound/Music with 2 items one of which regarding the game's (audiovisual) aesthetics and one the game's technical (audiovisual) realisation. I don't know what the others think about mantaining Text parser; as for AI, I agree that it determines gameplay and its rating and shouldn't be apart. Voice/acting could be suppressed, since that is included in aesthetics. The current rating system is and looks simplistic and outdated. An other question concerning rating games is: this game (e.g.) was released in two versions (which may differ slightly, or much): currently if I try to rate it, I can't rate one of the two versions, which makes it incorrect.
Last but not least, I am seeing new games approved with gross mistakes regarding genres/themes, as well as rating items: approvers, if not all contributors, should care to learn what these things are and mean. The commonest error is adding themes and genres to compilation games, which seems usual fashion. It shouldn't be overly difficult to explain approvers that game titles (which aren't links to another game's page) need to be in italic characters.
SGruber (3811) on 1/9/2014 8:12 PM · Permalink · Report
We should somehow keep the contribution comments on file and accessible when changes are being made.
Eg. with the current system, if two internet sources state two different tech specs (for mac):
http://store.steampowered.com/app/242110/
and
we will run circles approving them. Add the first, then correction with second source, correction with first source, etc. Especially when specs are changed/removed, there should be a way to see the old submission source.
Indra was here (20752) on 1/9/2014 8:14 PM · Permalink · Report
I keep wondering if I contribute additional info on a new game, if I need to duplicate my source comments for each new contribution.
Kabushi keeps asking me what the sources of the ratings are. I thought I mentioned it in the my original submission! o_O
Fred VT (25949) on 1/9/2014 8:16 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Indra was here wrote--]I keep wondering if I contribute additional info on a new game, if I need to duplicate my source comments for each new contribution.
Kabushi keeps asking me what the sources of the ratings are. I thought I mentioned it in the my original submission! o_O [/Q --end Indra was here wrote--]
In a single submission, we see the previous comments by either the contributor or approver.
In new platform submissions, we also see the comments for the original game entry.
Indra was here (20752) on 1/9/2014 8:23 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Fred VT wrote--]In new platform submissions, we also see the comments for the original game entry. [/Q --end Fred VT wrote--]You lied to me Kabushi! :p
Kabushi (261374) on 1/9/2014 8:28 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Indra was here wrote--] [Q2 --start Fred VT wrote--]In new platform submissions, we also see the comments for the original game entry. [/Q2 --end Fred VT wrote--]You lied to me Kabushi! :p [/Q --end Indra was here wrote--]Either you got the wrong person, or this is something very old. I don't remember approving anything from you lately.
Indra was here (20752) on 1/9/2014 8:54 PM · Permalink · Report
Oh, that was three years back. Your name just popped out in my head, so I went with that. :p
CalaisianMindthief (8172) on 1/9/2014 8:30 PM · Permalink · Report
No he didn't. What Fred said is all true, but that only works for game entries. Any extra items such as tech specs are cut off from the original submission and lose the original comments as well.
vedder (71144) on 1/9/2014 10:15 PM · Permalink · Report
The ability to review sources submitted post approval (for non-admins). I think this was already mentioned, just wanted to mention it again.
The ability to fill in wildcards for release years (e.g. 197X) or range (e.g. somewhere between 1978-1982). Sometimes it simply isn't known. That's no reason to not document it or having to guess.
Pseudo_Intellectual (66423) on 1/9/2014 10:59 PM · Permalink · Report
The ability to fill in wildcards for release years (e.g. 197X) or range (e.g. somewhere between 1978-1982). Sometimes it simply isn't known. That's no reason to not document it or having to guess.
Quoted for truth!
Fred VT (25949) on 1/9/2014 11:07 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Pseudo_Intellectual wrote--]The ability to fill in wildcards for release years (e.g. 197X) or range (e.g. somewhere between 1978-1982). Sometimes it simply isn't known. That's no reason to not document it or having to guess.
Quoted for truth! [/Q --end Pseudo_Intellectual wrote--]
Or have like in genealogy websites: about, before and after year XXXX
vileyn0id_8088 (21040) on 1/10/2014 10:24 AM · edited · Permalink · Report
Another purely aesthetical request but something that shouldn't take long at all to implement: add CSS rules to specify the scaling method for screenshots (image-rendering).
- When scaling up small screenshots, use sharp/nearest-neighbor scaling ("-moz-crisp-edges", "-webkit-optimize-contrast" etc)
- When scaling down large ones, just use the browser default (some kind of anti-aliased interpolation, in most cases).
This will keep the ugly blur away from scaled-up images, without introducing "jaggies" to ones that are scaled down.
vileyn0id_8088 (21040) on 1/10/2014 9:26 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Cavalary wrote--]If you can do that without using prefixed browser-specific features...
[/Q --end Cavalary wrote--]
Aye, and if my grandmother had wheels she'd be a wagon. < /Scotty >
In an ideal world both w3c and browser makers would get their shit together, but CSS3 (and HTML5) are about as standardized as their ancestors were 15 years ago in the "best viewed with Netscape!" button era. Until that changes, you're not going to get much usefulness out of the web by eschewing every feature that requires browser-specific rules, even when it "just works" in 95% of the cases.
vileyn0id_8088 (21040) on 1/11/2014 1:48 AM · Permalink · Report
Sure we did, but that has no bearing on the situation now. We also used to use < font > tags, spacer GIFs and a lot of markup that's now either deprecated, outright unsupported, or implemented differently. And while I'd personally get a kick out of mobygames looking like it's 1996 by trying to predate browser incompatibilities, that's not exactly the intent here.
Игги Друге (46653) on 1/26/2014 6:39 PM · Permalink · Report
I think that's a user setting.
SGruber (3811) on 1/10/2014 4:38 PM · Permalink · Report
I would tweak the contribution rules a bit. A new contributor with low points should only be ever able to add one game until either approved or rejected. Otoh, this should always be prioritized on the queue so they get fast feedback and don't get put off.
Because it takes a few tries to get the standards right for new contributors, I think this makes less work for approvers. The current new game PC queue is an example of how several not-yet-so-good entries can clog the queue.
Also, at least for me, having the same mistake in front of me ten times in a row is not good for my patience. So I am not as forthcoming as I am otherwise.
Indra was here (20752) on 1/10/2014 6:36 PM · Permalink · Report
So joyvalley is WIPing back all my stuff shakes fist.
Anyway, when you click on the WIPed item, there is no mention or link anywhere on the page in regard to what game contribution is being WIPed.
Fred VT (25949) on 1/10/2014 6:39 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Indra was here wrote--]So joyvalley is WIPing back all my stuff shakes fist.
Anyway, when you click on the WIPed item, there is no mention or link anywhere on the page in regard to what game contribution is being WIPed. [/Q --end Indra was here wrote--]
Mine too :P He's on crusade I tell you!
Indra was here (20752) on 1/10/2014 6:41 PM · Permalink · Report
Is that Steam tech spec stuff a new feature? It's not in the changelog yet.
Indra was here (20752) on 1/10/2014 6:45 PM · edited · Permalink · Report
And yes, Mr. Fancypants (i.e. me) does prefer readme files over Steam pages (reference to approval comment).
Mr. Fancypants also isn't wearing any pants right now. Nyah nyah!
[edit] Approval war! Drive the Germans and their fancy tech info gadgets back!
Indra was here (20752) on 1/10/2014 7:09 PM · edited · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Fred VT wrote--]Apparently pages like Steam, PSN, etc. aren't valid sources for ratings... [/Q --end Fred VT wrote--]Any online source is subject to question. Including this website. Printed material always takes precedence in authenticity than online material, unless proven otherwise.
Didn't I just mention a Steam page where the release info is for Railworks 2, the description is for Railworks 3, and the cover art is for Railworks 4?
Oh, wait. Readme files aren't printed and isn't online either. brain crashes
Indra was here (20752) on 1/10/2014 7:20 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Fred VT wrote--]Going with that logic, no source is ever valid :P [/Q --end Fred VT wrote--]Because no source ever is that valid.
You should mention the source standards we made at the Troll Pub.
SGruber (3811) on 1/10/2014 7:16 PM · edited · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Indra was here wrote--] brain crashes [/Q --end Indra was here wrote--]
Dude, I keep commenting on joyvalleys contributions when I am not happy (which doesn't happen that often) only to realize that he did that last year and any change of behaviour I might hope for might be 2500 contributions to late ...
god, I need to get out ....
Edit: Not to mention wiping stuff from users who probably haven't logged into Moby for over a year ... it feels like having a conversation with a wall ...
At least I know the wall listens.
Indra was here (20752) on 1/10/2014 7:21 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start SGruber wrote--] At least I know the wall listens. [/Q --end SGruber wrote--]Count your blessings. My wall occasionally talks back with lousy knock knock jokes.
vedder (71144) on 1/10/2014 7:13 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Fred VT wrote--]Apparently pages like Steam, PSN, etc. aren't valid sources for ratings...
(Nothing personal, I just wasn't aware.) [/Q --end Fred VT wrote--]
That's because in the past we've had many cases where those eventually turned out to be wildly inconsistent with what's on the actual box.
Fred VT (25949) on 1/10/2014 7:24 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start vedder wrote--] [Q2 --start Fred VT wrote--]Apparently pages like Steam, PSN, etc. aren't valid sources for ratings...
(Nothing personal, I just wasn't aware.) [/Q2 --end Fred VT wrote--]
That's because in the past we've had many cases where those eventually turned out to be wildly inconsistent with what's on the actual box. [/Q --end vedder wrote--]
Yes, I got that. I've seen a cover art (probably promotional) for the same game with a 3+ rating and another with 7+ on the game's page.
Cavalary (11448) on 1/10/2014 8:15 PM · Permalink · Report
For one of the few I submitted ratings for, I was told the PEGI site isn't a valid source for the PEGI rating...
Also, just to add this here when this topic hit 400 messages, we need some sort of paging on the forum... though that is awkward with nested posts, but there must be some way.
Fred VT (25949) on 1/10/2014 8:30 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Cavalary wrote--]For one of the few I submitted ratings for, I was told the PEGI site isn't a valid source for the PEGI rating... [/Q --end Cavalary wrote--]
I was told the same this for the ESRB ratings, even though I never used it as a source...
vileyn0id_8088 (21040) on 1/10/2014 9:02 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Cavalary wrote--]Also, just to add this here when this topic hit 400 messages, we need some sort of paging on the forum... though that is awkward with nested posts, but there must be some way.[/Q --end Cavalary wrote--] Sure, just get rid of that abominable nesting. A paginated, flat post list for each thread sorted from oldest to newest - works just fine for every single message board I've been to in the past decade.
Or just change the "flat" thread view we already have to be more like the above. Right now it's sorted/indented exactly like the "threaded" view, except you get to see psot contents too.
Patrick Bregger (303297) on 1/10/2014 9:53 PM · edited · Permalink · Report
There are too many of those awful forums out there already, I am very glad we have a good one with nested posts. It works perfectly for a low-frequency forum like this.
I really dislike those threaded forums.
vileyn0id_8088 (21040) on 1/11/2014 2:02 AM · Permalink · Report
Exactly... more than a dozen or so posts or 2-3 sub-threads, and navigation becomes a pain. Especially without even basic functionality like a link to the latest post in each thread (unless you're on the main forum list and it happens to be the last post in the whole forum). With most "flat"/paginated forums it's trivial to do that, or to find the last one you've read and follow the thread from there.
It's always possible to keep the nested view as an option for those who prefer it.
Игги Друге (46653) on 1/11/2014 4:50 AM · Permalink · Report
It was even more of a pain last month when the nested view was broken and replies in the flat view could be anywhere on the 200-reply long page. I had to bring up the page source and search for the IMG tag for new posts.
Patrick Bregger (303297) on 1/11/2014 7:32 AM · edited · Permalink · Report
Yes, of course. It is easily possible to read all new messages in a few minutes, provided you visit once a day, so it is low frequency. In a high frequency forum, e.g. Something Awful, it is impossible to keep up with all posts.
About a hundred posts per day over all boards is not much. And this is already an unusual peak, usually we have maximal twenty.
Cavalary (11448) on 1/10/2014 11:49 PM · Permalink · Report
Sure, that'd work just fine for me, make it a regular flat forum, and just have a way to see what post it was a reply to if this option is kept. But if not then maybe somebody who wants to keep it nested will come up with a way not to have to load (and possibly search through) several hundred posts to see the last few :p
SGruber (3811) on 1/10/2014 6:54 PM · Permalink · Report
Neither am I. Pants are the fascists of clothing!
And I can't check your readme. You could have told me anything! My parents told me never to trust a Destroyer of Worlds.
And just for the record, there are contributors who upload their readmes .... ;-P
Indra was here (20752) on 1/10/2014 7:05 PM · Permalink · Report
Hey, I mentioned the file creation date. I never lie. Except when I do and I usually tell people that I'm lying or delusional, more than often both at the same time.
checks Steam page
Dang it did have the stuff I mentioned. :p
SGruber (3811) on 1/12/2014 11:12 AM · Permalink · Report
Would it be feasible and possible for Moby to create a "source upload service"? Because sometimes a simple picture from the manual or the readme is needed and especially with backed up contributions, a lot of the links people use now (imagebucket or whatever thay are called) end up dead.
This would also work greatly towards (the ultimate goal) of also preserving the sources.
A lot of information about releases and especially distribution is from the manuals of the countries the game was released in and don't appear in the rolling credits. Currently there is no good way for users to use those sources.
MrFlibble (18361) on 1/12/2014 11:22 AM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start SGruber wrote--]Would it be feasible and possible for Moby to create a "source upload service"? Because sometimes a simple picture from the manual or the readme is needed and especially with backed up contributions, a lot of the links people use now (imagebucket or whatever thay are called) end up dead. [/Q --end SGruber wrote--] Agreed, that would be a very useful feature.
GTramp (81961) on 1/13/2014 10:33 PM · Permalink · Report
IF we ever decide to have some ranks and move to gamification here, we could tie in the badges (or nick-names or titles) to this late moby dick the whale theme. The badges could change depending on how many points the person has. Like, say, a fellow with 1000 pts. could be nick-named a Sailor, and a guy with 50000+ points could receive a nick (or a badge) of Whale-slayer. Could be fun. Just sayin'
What badge would approvers have then? Captain Ahab apparently!
Indra was here (20752) on 1/13/2014 10:38 PM · edited · Permalink · Report
And don't use bronze, silver, gold, whatever material to signify how many points you've reached for whatever category. The European bots here will break that limit in a week or so. :p
Use levels instead. e.g. One level per 1,000 points. Which makes our Belgian AI at level 220. Level 100 should be the benchmark to signify the end of one's humanity. :p
MobyReed (357) on 1/16/2014 5:23 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start GTramp wrote--]IF we ever decide to have some ranks and move to gamification here, we could tie in the badges (or nick-names or titles) to this late moby dick the whale theme.[/Q --end GTramp wrote--] I think a whale theme in general is a great idea. A whale could be the site mascot even.
Indra was here (20752) on 1/14/2014 12:05 AM · Permalink · Report
When uploading screenshots, only zip files are recognized. Rar and 7zip files are not recognized.
Игги Друге (46653) on 1/14/2014 2:50 PM · Permalink · Report
There is a size limit?
Игги Друге (46653) on 1/14/2014 4:25 PM · Permalink · Report
I hope the server runs Pngcrush or something before saving those files.
Игги Друге (46653) on 1/15/2014 4:47 PM · Permalink · Report
On a slightly related note, as a Mac user, I'd appreciate if the server didn't just throw up on files without a file type suffix. File suffixes is so 1984.
Игги Друге (46653) on 1/14/2014 5:15 AM · Permalink · Report
The "119 messages" bit in the top of each page should read "0 unread messages".
vileyn0id_8088 (21040) on 1/15/2014 1:14 AM · edited · Permalink · Report
More interviews in the featured articles. Like the ones with the developers of OMF2097 and ICON... and other older and/or obscure titles.
Starbuck the Third (22601) on 1/15/2014 12:39 PM · edited · Permalink · Report
[Q --start vile_r wrote--]More interviews in the featured articles. Like the ones with the developers of OMF2097 and ICON... and other older and/or obscure titles. [/Q --end vile_r wrote--]
That reminds me I've still got that featured article I wrote I don't know how long ago I PM'd Corn Popper about and never got a reply.
CP, Simon or Reed: still got it in a word document. Shall I PM it you one of you or just trash it?
Catawiki.com (671) on 1/15/2014 7:31 PM · Permalink · Report
A delete my account option.
Starbuck the Third (22601) on 1/15/2014 9:56 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Catawiki wrote--]A delete my account option. [/Q --end Catawiki wrote--]
This again. Becoming popular, isn't it?
Indra was here (20752) on 1/15/2014 11:33 PM · Permalink · Report
Even wikipedia doesn't have that option. Hell, can't even rename your account.
Игги Друге (46653) on 1/15/2014 11:59 PM · Permalink · Report
Wikipedia does have an option to anonymise and park your account.
Indra was here (20752) on 1/16/2014 1:40 AM · Permalink · Report
I still can't change my account name.
Simon Carless (1834) on 1/16/2014 4:49 AM · Permalink · Report
I think we might be giving up with 'featured articles' - have a few other things to worry about :)
is_that_rain_or_tears (634) on 1/16/2014 3:07 AM · Permalink · Report
Shouldn't we have a way to comment on, and discuss about, polls?
Indra was here (20752) on 1/16/2014 5:03 AM · Permalink · Report
Should be delegated to someone bored or interested enough. I'd create new threads for my own polls, but I don't think being more of an attention whore would be good for my psyche. :p
piltdown_man (242944) on 1/16/2014 10:29 AM · Permalink · Report
Since we retired my good lady likes to take me on holiday four to six times a year and consequently I have occasionally lost some submissions because they were WIP'd and 'timed out' while I was roaming the world. I did start mailing the most active reviewers of my stuff at one point saying I'd be away but this isn't really satisfactory as they have enough to worry about.
Could we add something to the user profile that says 'I'll be unavailable between dd/mm/yy' and dd/mm/yy' so that reviewers know they can skip any pending work until on or near the end date and submitters can avoid losing work?
Rola (8482) on 1/16/2014 10:46 AM · Permalink · Report
Better yet: how about increasing the timeout period? I understand it's there as a fail-safe against one-time contributors who may never come back to correct their errors - and WIPed entry forbids others from submitting the same thing. However this is counter-productive in the case of regular contributors on a temporary leave (example above).
SGruber (3811) on 1/16/2014 10:56 AM · Permalink · Report
I suggest a "offline switch" in the user profile. That makes wipping a submission impossible and the user can state on their page how long he will be offline (and how long he was). All that should only be visible to approvers/admins. Than we can put a submission in in a hold pattern till the user is back. The benefit to this is that approvers still have access to the submission and can fix it themselves if it shouldn't be lost. With wiping a submission it is essentially lost to the approver and needs an admin to reach it. And they have, quite frankly, enough to do.
Игги Друге (46653) on 1/16/2014 7:35 PM · Permalink · Report
The only real reason we have a timeout is so that someone can't add an additional platform halfways and then go away for a year, preventing anyone else from adding it. This could easily be solved if the system after the timeout period simply moved the work in progress outside the norma submission system. If someone else has added it while you were away for a year, tough luck. If not, you just press a button to pick it up again and it is put in the same state it was before the submission was "parked".
Opipeuter (17209) on 1/16/2014 7:16 PM · Permalink · Report
I would like to see multiple descriptions return, mainly for additional languages. I know there were problems, but I a always really interested in the multilingual nature of Mobygames. To have game descriptions in multiple languages would be really exciting to me.
is_that_rain_or_tears (634) on 1/19/2014 6:01 AM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Opipeuter wrote--]I would like to see multiple descriptions return, mainly for additional languages. I know there were problems, but I a always really interested in the multilingual nature of Mobygames. To have game descriptions in multiple languages would be really exciting to me. [/Q --end Opipeuter wrote--]
I am against multiple languages. Of course they wouldn't hurt in line of principle, but considering that the amount of what can be done isn't unlimited sets them out of possibility (for me).
I'd like multiple game descriptions: I think that, if the earliest one is kept as the main one in any case, and the others made accessible by a little writing next to the current "edit description", no problem can arise. It can happen that more than 1 contributor want to write a serious description for a game, and I don't see the sense of preventing that.
Indra was here (20752) on 1/19/2014 8:10 AM · Permalink · Report
Multiple descriptions don't seem to make any sense, unless for the purposes of multiple languages. Only problem with descriptions I have is how limited the information there can be presented. I've said it before, it's called a game description, not a game catalog. If a complex game has only two paragraphs describing it, that's a standard for people who don't like to read and it's a disservice for people who want to know more about the game.
Though I guess that's what wikis are for.
SGruber (3811) on 1/18/2014 2:33 PM · Permalink · Report
Something that just crossed my mind and have mentioned in the approver forum:
We really need to work over the mobystandards and tech-info explanations in many areas. Eg, but not limited to:
- How to get good digital covers (Steam/GOG)
- How to group release info/what release info to take with imports
- No Dev in compilations, BUT in Collectors editions which are nothing but "pre-release" compilations of bonus material (which each has its own entry)
- What exactly does "Number of players offline mean". IPX or just Hotseat/Dualscreen?
- When should the "3D accelerator box" used these days?
- Under which input method should we put the todays near standard XInput gamepads?
- Which pages are acceptable sources for release info (Amazon wasn't five years ago, now it is).
- How the game title is made, and that we stick by this rule, no matter how stupid it looks
I know (most of) that, but the site should be designed in a way that a newcomer can know about this by either reading the Mobystandards or the information. I guess that nowadays 80% of the contributions are done by maybe 25 people (Or rather 50% by ten). That can't be a long term solution. And making the site better accessible to new submitters is vital to handle the increased release in games each day.
vedder (71144) on 1/18/2014 3:32 PM · Permalink · Report
Most importantly, this information should be readily available during contribution. Not in some separate documentation page or some huge list of info at the bottom. E.g. an info icon next to each tech spec, which shows the info on mouse over.
Another way would be to turn contribution more in a question-answer type form instead of checkboxes. That would probably increase required time, but decrease user errors or omissions.
Simon Carless (1834) on 1/18/2014 10:03 PM · Permalink · Report
We do indeed have a MAJOR problem with 'large amount of work done by small amount of people, partly due to complexity of submission process'.
I'm going to start a thread on approver boards about possible fixes for this... I have some ideas.
Indra was here (20752) on 1/18/2014 11:30 PM · Permalink · Report
Proposing standards here is tiresome. I've been doing it for years. Ignored indefinitely.
Havoc Crow (29905) on 1/19/2014 6:05 PM · Permalink · Report
When revising a game's description, there is no link back to the game's rap sheet, and the links on the left of the screen are the same links as on the main page. This is highly inconvenient.
Indra was here (20752) on 1/19/2014 9:43 PM · Permalink · Report
Seconded, thirded, and fourded. Actually, whilst contributing a game description, the left panel should be game's default rapsheet panel, as other normal contributions. Not the main page panel.
Probably forgot to update this, as revise description was a later added feature.
Starbuck the Third (22601) on 1/20/2014 1:04 PM · edited · Permalink · Report
When inputing dates on release info & patch info, could it be changed so you have it DD/MM/YYYY, instead of YYYY/MM/DD.
Having them they way they are is annoying because it would be quicker to hit tab than to use the mouse to move between them, and with day on the right and year on the left is how most dates are written anyway.
Starbuck the Third (22601) on 1/20/2014 6:01 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Cavalary wrote--]Why use the mouse? And year/month/day is technically the standard, while day/month/year may end up confusing people from the US, so at least this way it's clear for everyone. [/Q --end Cavalary wrote--]
It has the words day, month and year in front of the input box. If Americans are going to get confused, well, they deserve it.
And well, the worlds bigger than America.
Indra was here (20752) on 1/21/2014 1:16 AM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start havoc of smeg wrote--] It has the words day, month and year in front of the input box. If Americans are going to get confused, well, they deserve it. [/Q --end havoc of smeg wrote--]Aye. Hell, in addition to the date format, any country that still doesn't use the metric system should be periodically stigmatized.
Canada apparently is still confused. :p
Indra was here (20752) on 1/21/2014 1:51 AM · Permalink · Report
Well at least my Steam releases and your country finally have something in common. shakes fist at Valve
vileyn0id_8088 (21040) on 1/21/2014 6:58 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start chirinea wrote--]I wonder if people in the USA are proud or ashamed of always being the "only country where X is used". [/Q --end chirinea wrote--] I'm starting to wonder if one can't simply be, you know, neutral about it. There are infinitely more important things to attach value judgments to, but as usual, that's a point lost on the internet as a whole.
Starbuck the Third (22601) on 1/21/2014 3:21 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Indra was here wrote--] [Q2 --start havoc of smeg wrote--] It has the words day, month and year in front of the input box. If Americans are going to get confused, well, they deserve it. [/Q2 --end havoc of smeg wrote--]Aye. Hell, in addition to the date format, any country that still doesn't use the metric system should be periodically stigmatized.
Date format by country. [/Q --end Indra was here wrote--]
Never new Wikipedia contributors had so much time on their hands...
Nélio (1976) on 1/22/2014 6:00 AM · Permalink · Report
Tech spec submissions should award as many points as the number of spec sections that were set/edited. Finding out the total tech specs for a game can be a lot of work and should be better rewarded. Submitting each item as a different submission will reward more points, and it shouldn't be incentivised.
Ad blurbs are also badly rewarded. Sure, a one-liner can be worth 1 point, but ad blurbs consisting of several paragraphs typed in word by word should be awarded at least 2 points. Similarly to how descriptions and reviews are rewarded.
Игги Друге (46653) on 1/22/2014 6:44 AM · Permalink · Report
Similarly, rankings where the source is paper-based, or a scan, should be awarded higher than those where you just copy and paste from a web page.
Pseudo_Intellectual (66423) on 1/22/2014 7:13 AM · Permalink · Report
Heck, I started a blog of scans and transcriptions just to facilitate my ad blurb submissions 8)
MobyReed (357) on 1/26/2014 6:04 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Cavalary wrote--]We really need a part 2 to switch this thread over to. (Or a proper flat forum with pages, of course.) Getting quite unmanageable. [/Q --end Cavalary wrote--] Yeah, it is. Think I'll create a new Suggestions forum to handle these and future suggestions. There seems to be enough discussion and it'll be a lot easier to deal with as individual threads.
Starbuck the Third (22601) on 1/25/2014 10:59 AM · Permalink · Report
Vedder mentioned it in anouther thread and it's been discussed several times in the past: cover spines (the bit in between back and front covers, usually with the games name on it).
Often the design of it carries over from the front/back and stylized, making it unique to that game, yet it doesn't get added with the other covers.
Fred VT (25949) on 1/25/2014 6:15 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start havoc of smeg wrote--]Vedder mentioned it in anouther thread and it's been discussed several times in the past: cover spines (the bit in between back and front covers, usually with the games name on it).
Often the design of it carries over from the front/back and stylized, making it unique to that game, yet it doesn't get added with the other covers. [/Q --end havoc of smeg wrote--]
Also the side of boxes. There are some boxes that have sides almost as big as their front and back...
Patrick Bregger (303297) on 1/25/2014 8:41 PM · Permalink · Report
A science-fiction credits idea: It would be nice if I could assign a credits group to a company if appropriate. For example, in this set, all groups could be linked to the companies. Then the system could recognize which company the persons inside the groups actually worked for. This would be useful information for their rap sheet.
Of course it would not catch everyone correctly and would be largely useless for old games, but still more accurate than the current system.
FatherJack (61785) on 1/26/2014 7:32 PM · Permalink · Report
Just a suggestion but how about a new Company name option. Budget Label. Most games especially the old games were re-released under different company names like Hit Squad or Kixx. I know they were the budget label of major companies. Just a suggestion. :)
Anders Hammar (41) on 1/28/2014 3:39 PM · edited · Permalink · Report
I really think unreleased leaked games like Star Fox 2 or Resident Evil 1.5 should be allowed on the site. Cause, I mean, this site aims to be a database over every game in existence and regardless of how it got out there, there's no denying that a game like Star Fox 2 pretty definitively exist and thus it should be included...
Игги Друге (46653) on 1/28/2014 5:16 PM · Permalink · Report
If it can't be played on a SNES, I don't think it exists. But I don't see why we shouldn't document non-existing games.
Anders Hammar (41) on 2/2/2014 12:40 PM · edited · Permalink · Report
1 They can be played of a SNES. How do you think they got out there in the first place, osmosis? And not only are there prototype carts, but also there are reproduction carts. Fine, reproduction cart may not be legal really, but this database isn't a listing of all the lawfully released games, it's a list of ALL games.
2 In what way do they not exist? I mean, I've played it, many times even. Pretty sure I couldn't do that if it didn't exist.
Indra was here (20752) on 2/2/2014 12:55 PM · Permalink · Report
We don't list all games. Check the standards.
Игги Друге (46653) on 2/2/2014 6:56 PM · Permalink · Report
That's a good point. I was thinking of some games which only exist in emulators, forgetting about all those games which exist in emulators and in a unique prototype cartridge.
Foxhack (32099) on 2/2/2014 11:10 PM · edited · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Игги Друге wrote--]That's a good point. I was thinking of some games which only exist in emulators, forgetting about all those games which exist in emulators and in a unique prototype cartridge. [/Q --end Игги Друге wrote--]There's some homebrew and prototype games that have been released officially and with permission from the game creators on carts or disc media, too.
I wouldn't let any unlicensed reproduction carts anywhere near here though.
Игги Друге (46653) on 2/3/2014 12:44 AM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Foxhack wrote--] [Q2 --start Игги Друге wrote--]That's a good point. I was thinking of some games which only exist in emulators, forgetting about all those games which exist in emulators and in a unique prototype cartridge. [/Q2 --end Игги Друге wrote--]There's some homebrew and prototype games that have been released officially and with permission from the game creators on carts or disc media, too.[/Q --end Foxhack wrote--]
Yes, and we have lots of those in the database already.
Joshua J. Slone (4666) on 2/5/2014 2:04 AM · Permalink · Report
Something I've wanted to see for a long time is an expansion of "People who have worked on this game have also collaborated on the creation of the following games:". I'd like the possibility to click on a link that would then display who those people were that the games had in common, and what their roles were in each. That way you can see whether two games are deemed similar because they had the same directors, musicians, and artists; or whether it's because both games had the same PR and QA teams.
Pseudo_Intellectual (66423) on 2/5/2014 6:44 AM · Permalink · Report
You bet, that's one good component of a "if you liked game x, you might also like games y and z" feature.
Havoc Crow (29905) on 2/5/2014 12:57 PM · Permalink · Report
Genre sheets (such as this one here, with the description and the fancy list) should give an option to sort the list by year, at least.
Indra was here (20752) on 2/10/2014 11:04 PM · Permalink · Report
Latest patch and game version should be explicit in the game's main page. Also, comments and game versions should be separated into a different text box.
GTramp (81961) on 2/11/2014 1:43 AM · edited · Permalink · Report
There's this strange bug/feature that bothers me. When adding several new platforms for a game at once, cover art for only one platform can be submitted. If you upload another cover art on top of that it just substitutes the one you previously uploaded. The only workaround I found to this is to add platforms one after another, and not in a single entry.
Suggestion is to make it possible to contribute several cover art pieces for various platforms when contributing new platforms for a game.
It would also be nice if one could contribute credits when adding a new platform, in a way it is implemented when contributing a new game entry.
Kabushi (261374) on 2/11/2014 1:09 PM · Permalink · Report
Sometimes it would be good to be able to reorder release info:
http://www.mobygames.com/game/vic-20/space-phreeks/release-info
Cavalary (11448) on 2/11/2014 2:39 PM · Permalink · Report
Long-term annoyance, while we're at it: If you're on a subdomain for a particular platform (I only use pc.mobygames.com for example, since I don't care for anything else), the updates shown on the front page should be restricted to that platform. Now you can't even see them if you click, since the pages themselves are restricted to platform for many categories (like screenshots), but the updates show up regardless.
And while I'm at it, think there should be a dedicated section there just for new games, not lumped in game updates, and likely put it first too, top-left. And may have a lumped "other updates" instead of the mobyrank ones now (which I'll admit serve no real purpose, even if, if I'll submit anything more (right now... nah), it'll still be ranks). Or could maybe have 6 instead of 4 sections if you want to showcase credits and more eye candy, so have games, reviews (I'll insist on those before screenshots still), screenshots, credits, cover art and "other updates".
chirinea (47507) on 2/11/2014 2:58 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start Cavalary wrote--]And while I'm at it, think there should be a dedicated section there just for new games, not lumped in game updates, and likely put it first too, top-left. [/Q --end Cavalary wrote--]How about this?
Indra was here (20752) on 2/11/2014 2:59 PM · Permalink · Report
[Q --start chirinea wrote--] [href="http://pc.mobygames.com/stats/recent_entries">How about this? [/Q --end chirinea wrote--]Aaaah, my eyes! It burns! :p
GTramp (81961) on 2/12/2014 12:28 AM · Permalink · Report
When contributing developer corrections, need to be able to see what corrections are already pending. Come to think of it, need to see all pending stuff (maybe without many details, just in form of a notification) about games / developers / companies not to make duplicate contributions.